Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Dotto]

Antonopoulos making some good points about the possibility of Govs taking over exchanges on a 6 minutes video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PrJQeKl9w4

[r0ach]

dumping bitcoin for silver (while silver is at the floor) is the best move you can make in the long run right now.

Sure, you might get 2x out of silver. I see 10x out of Bitcoin as far more likely, even without a scaling solution, just with the block reward halvings to come.

LOL, no.  Silver is the most undervalued asset in the world right now.  If silver was only good for a 2x I wouldn't even bother.  US debt vs gold chart has a 92% correlation, which means gold will head to $2200 in the near future which will see the GSR collapse from 80:1 to 30:1 or lower ($73 silver).  That's a 4.4x even within their rigged system where the price is suppressed, let alone factoring in something like massive money printing or the economic system imploding.  This is what I consider easy money because it's very likely, almost inevitable to occur.  

You would need someone to pump bitcoin to $12,000 to match that trade.  Bitcoin, even though it has crap for fundamentals since it's not decentralized and doesn't scale, might get another pump looking for greater fools to buy next halving, but bitcoin is no longer a cheap penny stock to buy.  The market cap of bitcoin and silver are around the same now.  It's no longer the biggest upside item around because other assets were suppressed by central bankers while they allowed this imaginary, digital asset to rise in order to try and promote a "cashless society" and eventually release their own governmentcoin.

[Torque]

r0ach, I think Syke meant that the potential of seeing another 10X in Bitcoin before seeing Silver rally to $600/oz is more likely.

Which, barring a complete worldwide fiat crash, I'm inclined to agree with. They could keep a cap on PMs for another decade or so.

[fabiorem]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1166428.msg13664554#msg13664554



Only 1,5 years ... and now, the same pattern repeat with SegWit adoption.
Choose wisely ... mathematic rules are just.

Very true. I was sympathetic to the idea of increasing block size until I saw a graphic showing it would reach 1tb for the blockchain to be stored in a computer, in case it would increase block size to 2mb.

Then I remembered Ethereum Mist which I had my computer turned on constantly for two weeks to download its blockchain, and it never completed it, making me drop it. And as you know, Ethereum is supported by big corporations, big banks, oligarchies, even Microsoft. Ethereum is very centralized and its creator dictates what happens in that network.

Then it occurred to me the external hd where I have the blockchain is a very old 640gb Samsung, with a usb 2.0 port. And it occurred to me I would never be able to run a bitcoin node again, if it were to increase block size, since 2mb would be only the beginning of a long centralization process.

[JayJuanGee]

I do agree that even the BTC-E issue could be somewhat bullish. Let's face it, that exchange was operating completely out of any basic regulation.

There's something wrong with this statement - that seems to be applauding the strong arm of government, and likely stealing and loss of user funds because of governmental actions... The fine of $100million on BTC-e is outrageous and exceedingly likely to cause user funds to be used in either defending the actions or paying the fines.  


I don't know if the situation is bullish - even though silk road ended up being bullish, merely because bitcoin was in a different place at that time, and the death of bitcoin had been greatly exaggerated.. there could be some bullish aspects that could take a large quantity of bitcoins out of circulation for an extended time?

There are still lots of people who know very little about bitcoin except that it's used by cybercriminals and it went bankrupt a few years ago when Mt Gox got hacked and all the bitcoins got stolen and the bitcoin CEO got arrested and it's a big scary black box as far as they are concerned. If they hear that the Mt Gox hacker got caught and the good guys are taming the wild beast, it will seem a little bit less scary. Bullish.

You are correct that the large majority of regular people who might get into bitcoin do not really know too many particulars, so there could be ways in which BTC-e ends up being more bullish than what would otherwise reasonably be expected. 

[savetherainforest]

I keep wondering the same thing.. When are they gonna come and buy some?? Because when they do everything will go apesh!t.. with blood and paper money flying on the walls. The exchanges will go absolutely bonkers! Vertical will be the way! Trying to flush out coins from all corners of the world with a higher, higher and higher price for each coin from those that hodl so they can regain control of the manipulation.

big money does not get big by going on an exchange and buying everything with two hands.

it buys otc, but only after crashing the market to the best of its ability.

This. This is how it works.

The most bullish scenario I can imagine right now has nothing to do with SegWit, or aversion of a hard fork, or any of that crap. None of that is even remotely interesting.

The bullish scenario has to do with the CFTC approval of bitcoin option swaps through LedgerX. That's supposedly coming online in Sept/Oct. timeframe. With that we could see some large hedge fund money move in, but not before they first short the market into the absolute ground to shake out weak hands.

If Sept/Oct passes with no new money coming in, or even after the first of the year in 2018, then I don't see anything else as bullish on the horizon right now.

I'm telling you that no one will give a sh!t about CFTC or from the mouths of the people from the future "what is an CFTC??" ... Because one reason. Have you heard about the "Satellite Blockchain Corporations" project??

[Syke]

Then it occurred to me the external hd where I have the blockchain is a very old 640gb Samsung, with a usb 2.0 port. And it occurred to me I would never be able to run a bitcoin node again, if it were to increase block size, since 2mb would be only the beginning of a long centralization process.

Even 5 years from now, with 2MB blocks, you'd still fit the blockchain on that old hard drive. I don't think Bitcoin should be limited by what runs on 15 year old hardware.

[lemmyK]

Bitcoin, like any so-called crypto currency, is the old like world scheme of Ponzi. Only in the new high-tech pack.

Want an example? You are welcome:

1. Assume that all people in the world convert half of their savings from ordinary national currencies to crypto-currencies. What does it mean? This means that the producers of crypto-currency, received half of the world's volume of national currencies - half of the total world currency bascet.

2. After a while, the fictitious value of investments in crypto-currencies increased 4-fold (as we see in the case of Bitcoin and the mass of other crypto-currencies). What does it mean? This means that now, every person in the world, reasonably expects to receive in exchange for his crypto currency (as a return on his genius) in 4 times more volume of the national currency.

3. Let's assume that all these people, at the same time, decide to fixed their investment profit-to exchange their crypto-currencies that went up four times, (if they take profit in the form ordinary national currencies).
All of them expect to receive now 4 times more national currency than they used to, they spent on buying crypto-currencies.

QUESTION: Where does this whole currency come from? From producers or producers of crypto-currency? But they simply do not have such volumes of ordinary currency, and never were. Because, previously selling the Crypto currency, in exchange for the usual currency, the organizers and the receivers only received the initial value of the crypto currency in the usual currency. Which was at the time of the transaction only - 1/4 of the amount of currency, which is now payable to all owners of the crypto currency.

CONCLUSION: Bitcoin, like any so-called crypto currency, is the old world scheme of Ponzi. Where each participant can receive a gain of the investments only one way - due to those new participants who have entered this pyramid later.

[pumpmydump]

I do agree that even the BTC-E issue could be somewhat bullish. Let's face it, that exchange was operating completely out of any basic regulation.

There's something wrong with this statement - that seems to be applauding the strong arm of government, and likely stealing and loss of user funds because of governmental actions... The fine of $100million on BTC-e is outrageous and exceedingly likely to cause user funds to be used in either defending the actions or paying the fines.  


I don't know if the situation is bullish - even though silk road ended up being bullish, merely because bitcoin was in a different place at that time, and the death of bitcoin had been greatly exaggerated.. there could be some bullish aspects that could take a large quantity of bitcoins out of circulation for an extended time?

There are still lots of people who know very little about bitcoin except that it's used by cybercriminals and it went bankrupt a few years ago when Mt Gox got hacked and all the bitcoins got stolen and the bitcoin CEO got arrested and it's a big scary black box as far as they are concerned. If they hear that the Mt Gox hacker got caught and the good guys are taming the wild beast, it will seem a little bit less scary. Bullish.

You are correct that the large majority of regular people who might get into bitcoin do not really know too many particulars, so there could be ways in which BTC-e ends up being more bullish than what would otherwise reasonably be expected. 

You really believe it is the "regular people" who were suddenly responsible for the 7,000 btc trade volume on bitfinex during the one hour pump? That was just a whale pump.

[jojo69]

The bitcoin market is in deep shit once the general public finds out Lightning Network isn't a valid scaling solution.  Sure, it works as a CENTRALIZED scaling solution, but not a decentralized one.  Not that the base bitcoin network itself is even decentralized in the first place.  

The market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent, but on a long enough timeline, dumping bitcoin for silver (while silver is at the floor) is the best move you can make in the long run right now.  Sure, some idiot could pump BTC higher, but there is no valid scaling solution, and it's useless without scaling.  It's value prospect is also supposed to be based on decentralization, and it's not even decentralized either!  There's no god damn fundamentals for it anywhere!  It's all just a pump and dump scheme at this point.

I don't get this.  BTC doesn't have to be for buying your fucking coffee in the morning.  It can be more like the SDR or bank wires.  I envision it as a settlement structure for very large transactions.  It DOES NOT HAVE TO SCALE!  Use sidechains and altcoins to buy your goddamn starbucks...jesus, this isn't that hard folks.





Also, as someone with an Ag DCA just over $12 I really don't see current prices as a "floor"

Nice product placement for ZeroHedge though, I'll give you that.

[JayJuanGee]

I do agree that even the BTC-E issue could be somewhat bullish. Let's face it, that exchange was operating completely out of any basic regulation.

There's something wrong with this statement - that seems to be applauding the strong arm of government, and likely stealing and loss of user funds because of governmental actions... The fine of $100million on BTC-e is outrageous and exceedingly likely to cause user funds to be used in either defending the actions or paying the fines.  


I don't know if the situation is bullish - even though silk road ended up being bullish, merely because bitcoin was in a different place at that time, and the death of bitcoin had been greatly exaggerated.. there could be some bullish aspects that could take a large quantity of bitcoins out of circulation for an extended time?

There are still lots of people who know very little about bitcoin except that it's used by cybercriminals and it went bankrupt a few years ago when Mt Gox got hacked and all the bitcoins got stolen and the bitcoin CEO got arrested and it's a big scary black box as far as they are concerned. If they hear that the Mt Gox hacker got caught and the good guys are taming the wild beast, it will seem a little bit less scary. Bullish.

You are correct that the large majority of regular people who might get into bitcoin do not really know too many particulars, so there could be ways in which BTC-e ends up being more bullish than what would otherwise reasonably be expected. 

You really believe it is the "regular people" who were suddenly responsible for the 7,000 btc trade volume on bitfinex during the one hour pump? That was just a whale pump.

You are changing the topic for some purpose?   One thing is to talk about certain specific market moves, and another thing is to talk about overall incentives that  "regular people" have to either get into or out of crypto.

The mere fact that "regular people" are in crypto  does not mean that whale manipulators are not still pumpy and dumpy the price, as your user name indicates your implied expertise.   

[lemmyK]

https://www.hardocp.com/news/2017/07/27/ethereum_miners_are_renting_boeing_747s_to_ship_graphics_cards

[aztecminer]

hey everyone.. stopping in to learn more about my boat i'm going to have soon . how is everyone doing with the fork ??

[aztecminer]

So how you guys liking that back-and-forth wash trading?

Feels just like a groundswell of overwhelming public demand, doesn't it?  At this rate we'll be over $5K in no time!  /s

$5K is a done deal. Interesting question is if we go over $10K by the end of this year?

So sure are we? Hope that you are right, but I'm curious what you are attributing that to.

I'm not sure that Average Joe, after reading the headlines about BTC-e's demise and that bitcoin is used by criminals, will be falling all over himself to buy ANY bitcoin right now. Especially when he has absolutely no fkn clue what either SegWit or SegWit2X are, nor does he care.

yeah really. it is obvious to me he is a govy shill attempting to squash everyones hopium when we all know bitcoin will have support at $49k soon on its way too $500k .

[leowonderful]

hey everyone.. stopping in to learn more about my boat i'm going to have soon . how is everyone doing with the fork ??

Quite happy at the moment. We get free coins from ABC that can be exchanged for BTC if you have the knowledge and time to do so. I just hope it won't be too bumpy and people don't fall for splitting scams.

[BTCtrader71]

hey everyone.. stopping in to learn more about my boat i'm going to have soon . how is everyone doing with the fork ??

Quite happy at the moment. We get free coins from ABC that can be exchanged for BTC if you have the knowledge and time to do so. I just hope it won't be too bumpy and people don't fall for splitting scams.

Where do we expect BCC demand to be coming from? Chinese? Jihan? Roger?

[r0ach]

The bitcoin market is in deep shit once the general public finds out Lightning Network isn't a valid scaling solution.  Sure, it works as a CENTRALIZED scaling solution, but not a decentralized one.  Not that the base bitcoin network itself is even decentralized in the first place.  

The market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent, but on a long enough timeline, dumping bitcoin for silver (while silver is at the floor) is the best move you can make in the long run right now.  Sure, some idiot could pump BTC higher, but there is no valid scaling solution, and it's useless without scaling.  It's value prospect is also supposed to be based on decentralization, and it's not even decentralized either!  There's no god damn fundamentals for it anywhere!  It's all just a pump and dump scheme at this point.

I don't get this.  BTC doesn't have to be for buying your fucking coffee in the morning.  It can be more like the SDR or bank wires.  I envision it as a settlement structure for very large transactions.  It DOES NOT HAVE TO SCALE!  Use sidechains and altcoins to buy your goddamn starbucks...jesus, this isn't that hard folks.

Also, as someone with an Ag DCA just over $12 I really don't see current prices as a "floor"

Nice product placement for ZeroHedge though, I'll give you that.

Bitcoin has ZERO, I repeat, ZERO value as a settlement layer because there already exists far better settlement alternatives - noble metals (gold and silver).  This is why currencies were always derivatives of them in the past.  Bitcoin has built-in middle men (transaction validators) and counter party risk while metals DO NOT.  Bitcoin is a rent seeking usury system where miners expect to get a cut out of every transaction like the mafia while metals ARE NOT.  

You need to be a complete lunatic to believe bitcoin somehow has better fundamentals as a settlement system than metals.  Can you imagine issuing currencies as a derivative of bitcoin when bitcoin is already only a currency and not money in the first place? LOL.  For the the 500th time, bitcoin is a currency, not money, which is why it's called "cryptocurrency".  The value of currencies are derived from transaction flow, NOT stock.  

[leowonderful]

hey everyone.. stopping in to learn more about my boat i'm going to have soon . how is everyone doing with the fork ??

Quite happy at the moment. We get free coins from ABC that can be exchanged for BTC if you have the knowledge and time to do so. I just hope it won't be too bumpy and people don't fall for splitting scams.

Where do we expect BCC demand to be coming from? Chinese? Jihan? Roger?

If they're going to fork off chances are the ones who forked will pump the coin, creating artificial demand. Perhaps Chinese will buy into it as well, could be interesting how price goes early on and long term. I expect an ETC situation where price is much below that of Bitcoin's.

[Paashaas]

Floyd Mayweather just hash tagged bitcoin & eth in his latest instagram post.

Just saying.

Nice!

I cant wait for the match between Floyd Mayweather vs Conor Mcgregor

[Gab0]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1166428.msg13664554#msg13664554


Only 1,5 years ... and now, the same pattern repeat with SegWit adoption.
Choose wisely ... mathematic rules are just.

Very true. I was sympathetic to the idea of increasing block size until I saw a graphic showing it would reach 1tb for the blockchain to be stored in a computer, in case it would increase block size to 2mb.

Then I remembered Ethereum Mist which I had my computer turned on constantly for two weeks to download its blockchain, and it never completed it, making me drop it. And as you know, Ethereum is supported by big corporations, big banks, oligarchies, even Microsoft. Ethereum is very centralized and its creator dictates what happens in that network.

Then it occurred to me the external hd where I have the blockchain is a very old 640gb Samsung, with a usb 2.0 port. And it occurred to me I would never be able to run a bitcoin node again, if it were to increase block size, since 2mb would be only the beginning of a long centralization process.

Don't confuse decentralized and distributed.
https://medium.com/@johnblocke/decentralization-fetishism-is-hindering-bitcoins-progress-11cfa5c7964d