Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[r0ach]

You usually talk about "cost of production".... well, there you have an example of a new apartment that is CLEARLY BELOW cost of construction.

Sunk cost fallacy affects items worse the further away you get from the base of Exter's pyramid.  A house isn't like gold or silver which is both portable and virtually indestructable, it realies on numerous external factors like schools, crime, jobs, govt, etc.  They say Detroit is a clear case of, "a house is only worth as much as there are jobs there to support it".  That and most people don't want to live in a neighborhood where all 10 of your neighbors are named Tyrone.

[bitserve]

You usually talk about "cost of production".... well, there you have an example of a new apartment that is CLEARLY BELOW cost of construction.

Sunk cost fallacy affects items worse the further away you get from the base of Exter's pyramid.  A house isn't like gold or silver which is both portable and virtually indestructable, it realies on numerous external factors like schools, crime, jobs, govt, etc.  They say Detroit is a clear case of, "a house is only worth as much as there are jobs there to support it".  That and most people don't want to live in a neighborhood where all 10 of your neighbors are named Tyrone.

It's funny you resort to the "sunk cost fallacy" when it comes to real state (or with Bitcoin) but you don't when it comes to cost of extraction of PM's. What's the reason for such incoherency?

And no, I don't see how PM's are not affected by "external factors" too. See Executive Order 6102 as an example. Or VAT TAX for silver in Europe.

[conspirosphere.tk]

Anyone going to walk away from crypto if BCH wins?

In that case I'll just turn into a Litecoin maximalist. Because none of this craziness happened in LTC.

[JimboToronto]

Good morning Bitcoinland.

No new ATH yet today. Pretty much consolidating sideways... currently $4250USD/$5350CAD (Bitcoinaverage).

AltcoinCash however has risen to $571USD/$723CAD (Coinmarketcap), so the net result for double holders has been OK.

The past month has been very good for us long-term Bitcoin holders.

[infofront]

However it turns out, I think we'll all be worse off than if the forks had been avoided altogether.

Yes, but this is a fallacy.

Bitcoin forks can be created by anyone, at any time. Trying to change rules to appease some vocal subset wouldn't stop or block such ability. In fact it is a feature by design. There is no "avoiding it" and there's no one that Bitcoin should have to appease or answer to except for the majority of it users, and to implement/include things that insure it's own long term survival. The existing attributes and rules do just that. They can also be tweaked as time goes on.

A 2MB blocksize increase by Core would've preempted any need for Segwit2X. It may have even have avoided the BCC fork.

It's healthy for the miners and economic nodes to try to force features into bitcoin. This whole process keeps Core honest, and makes sure bitcoin doesn't just become a technocracy, run by a bunch of computer scientists in an ivory tower. You don't have to give into every whim by the miners, but you need to manage them and give them small concessions (like 2MB blocks, IMO).

We'll see how secure Core remains if/when 80%+ hashing power switches to the fork. I'd agree that doesn't seem very economically sustainable ATM, though.

Miners will continue to mine and secure the network as long as there is economic incentive to do so and as long as sufficient demand extends them a profit, i.e., end users are still buying it and using it daily. Otherwise, vocal miners don't need to be "appeased" and certainly not under any kind of threats or hostile strong arming.

At the moment, it's more profitable to mine BCC. The hashpower on that coin would've been used to mine BTC, which means the BTC network is less secure now than if the fork had been avoided.

Just look at the oil commodity sector. You don't see major oil drillers going "Look, you [OPEC] raise the price of oil back to > $100/barrel, or we will shut down all our drilling rigs and walk off the jobs tomorrow!!!" They will continue to drill oil as long as there is enough demand they make a profit, or until they go bankrupt.

That analogy doesn't hold up very well, since the bitcoin miners aren't trying to coerce anyone into price fixing (at least not explicitly). But we do see politics trump short term economic interest even in the oil sector.  The US has had success over the years coercing Saudi Arabia to have it's way with OPEC.

[Spaceman_Spiff_Original]

However it turns out, I think we'll all be worse off than if the forks had been avoided altogether.

Yes, but this is a fallacy.

Bitcoin forks can be created by anyone, at any time. Trying to change rules to appease some vocal subset wouldn't stop or block such ability. In fact it is a feature by design. There is no "avoiding it" and there's no one that Bitcoin should have to appease or answer to except for the majority of it users, and to implement/include things that insure it's own long term survival. The existing attributes and rules do just that. They can also be tweaked as time goes on.

A 2MB blocksize increase by Core would've preempted any need for Segwit2X. It may have even have avoided the BCC fork.

It's healthy for the miners and economic nodes to try to force features into bitcoin. This whole process keeps Core honest, and makes sure bitcoin doesn't just become a technocracy, run by a bunch of computer scientists in an ivory tower. You don't have to give into every whim by the miners, but you need to manage them and give them small concessions (like 2MB blocks, IMO).

We'll see how secure Core remains if/when 80%+ hashing power switches to the fork. I'd agree that doesn't seem very economically sustainable ATM, though.

I think I agree.  It is sometimes hard to judge these situations, but your words mirror some worries/sentiment that I have.

[Meuh6879]

Segwit pause, i guess ...



https://www.xbt.eu/ = Still 702 blocks to wait for Segwit Activation.

[becoin]

However it turns out, I think we'll all be worse off than if the forks had been avoided altogether.

Yes, but this is a fallacy.

Bitcoin forks can be created by anyone, at any time. Trying to change rules to appease some vocal subset wouldn't stop or block such ability. In fact it is a feature by design. There is no "avoiding it" and there's no one that Bitcoin should have to appease or answer to except for the majority of it users, and to implement/include things that insure it's own long term survival. The existing attributes and rules do just that. They can also be tweaked as time goes on.

A 2MB blocksize increase by Core would've preempted any need for Segwit2X. It may have even have avoided the BCC fork.ave it's way with OPEC.

No. If 2mb blocksize increase would've been accepted then big blocktards would've needed Segwit4X.

[Torque]

Some of you younger guys really need to stop peeing your wittle panties over this whole BCH fork and SegWit2x thing.

It's really unbecoming of a true Bitcoin hodler and believer.  

[Lauda]

Bitcoin Community Rallies Against BitPay: https://twitter.com/i/moments/898288070591520768. Fight back; the revolution will not be centralized nor corporation controlled.
Expect some stronger swings due to the shady practices of BitPay et. al. and don't forget to ditch them while you're at it. I dislike the current dump.

[YourMother]

I don't understand the panic, really  

The next shitcoin (x2) is about to render the previous scam coin (BCH) obsolete, so it makes sense that the big players, who got thousands or tens of thousands of bch for free, would pump it and lure every newbie in (and generate as much liquidity as possible) before unloading everything and gtfo ASAP. More free money to be made with the next one...

[HanvanBitcoin]

I don't understand the panic, really  

The next shitcoin (x2) is about to render the previous scam coin (BCH) obsolete, so it makes sense that the big players would pump it and lure every newbie in before unloading everything and gtfo ASAP. More free money to be made with the next one...

exactly, allot of people that fall for this may loose allot of money 

[infofront]

No. If 2mb blocksize increase would've been accepted then big blocktards would've needed Segwit4X.

Maybe. Maybe Jihan would've been happy with a 2MB concession, and happy that he saved face. And maybe Ver and all the other useful idiots would've followed him.

If not, Core could've been politically savvy and dragged the 4X fight out another 3-5 years, like with 2X. By then, maybe Bitmain's stranglehold over mining would've lessened.

[becoin]

By then, maybe Bitmain's stranglehold over mining would've lessened.

... or maybe would've escalated?

[HanvanBitcoin]

Where will this drop end   Waiting to buy back in  

[soullyG]

Where will this drop end   Waiting to buy back in  

I'm thinking $3800-$3900 if it gets that far, and that wouldn't even break our uptrend

[aesma]

You usually talk about "cost of production".... well, there you have an example of a new apartment that is CLEARLY BELOW cost of construction.

Sunk cost fallacy affects items worse the further away you get from the base of Exter's pyramid.  A house isn't like gold or silver which is both portable and virtually indestructable, it realies on numerous external factors like schools, crime, jobs, govt, etc.  They say Detroit is a clear case of, "a house is only worth as much as there are jobs there to support it".  That and most people don't want to live in a neighborhood where all 10 of your neighbors are named Tyrone.

In the US you build cheap wooden houses that need continuous maintenance.

A concrete flat or house is much more durable.

[Dakustaking76]

Where will this drop end   Waiting to buy back in  

I'm thinking $3800-$3900 if it gets that far, and that wouldn't even break our uptrend

And what Will you do if iT Dont drop?

Edit:  kraken price hangs on €3550

[jojo69]

Anyone going to walk away from crypto if BCH wins?

In that case I'll just turn into a Litecoin maximalist. Because none of this craziness happened in LTC.

right?  LTC stable AF

[HanvanBitcoin]

Where will this drop end   Waiting to buy back in  

I'm thinking $3800-$3900 if it gets that far, and that wouldn't even break our uptrend

And what Will you do if iT Dont drop?

Edit:  kraken price hangs on €3550

Well, with this current BCH pump i don't expect the bitcoin price to rise......   i do think this BCH pump will end up in a big crash this weekend though.