Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[jojo69]

I've just come here to say I am in love with Salma Hayek

I do like some T&A with my TA, 'tis true

[xyzzy099]

Has anyone considered the tax implications of now involuntarily owning BCH?

I'm trying to work that out with my accountant now. Wanted to dump all my BCH to pay off a mortgage and he's trying to wrap his head around the cost-basis and tax implications.

I'm thinking they will treat it as if you mined it on the day the chain split. In other words, you will owe capital gains on the value of BCH the day it was created whether you cash it out or not.

Pretty sure mined coins are taxed as regular income - not at the capital gains rate.

Good point, not like mining then but still capital gains.

I would imagine that coins "created" in any way at all would be considered exactly the same as mined coins, and taxed as normal income.  IANAL, that's just my best guess.

[aesma]

In France the taxman doesn't care about tokens. Only when converted into fiat do you need to declare the money, then it's taken as regular income. Meaning there is no way to deduct what you have spent to get the coins, so it's not practical. I'm considering opening a fake company to go around that problem.

[bitserve]

Has anyone considered the tax implications of now involuntarily owning BCH?

None until you sell.

[Torque]

I've just come here to say I am in love with Salma Hayek

yes that is a good point! i feel many in this community would like to spend from 1 minute with her up to all life

Does she accept BCH?

She's married to a billionaire.

Hence the reason she is always smiling in photos. Although her daughter has passed the age of 7 now, so pretty soon she'll file for divorce and take half his shit.

[bitserve]

Has anyone considered the tax implications of now involuntarily owning BCH?

I'm trying to work that out with my accountant now. Wanted to dump all my BCH to pay off a mortgage and he's trying to wrap his head around the cost-basis and tax implications.

I would say it's an extraordinary profit, and as such the cost is 0. You can argue otherwise -that it is part of your previously bought BTC- but I would avoid that complexity altogether.

You pay a 100% capital gains on whatever you get from it.

[rolling]

Has anyone considered the tax implications of now involuntarily owning BCH?

None until you sell.

In the US, you owe taxes on the value when you receive it and then again if there are gains when you sell it.

[Lauda]

You pay a 100% capital gains on whatever you get from it.

Move to the Cayman islands and you pay 0% capital gains on it. I don't see why anyone would want to cash out anywhere else, or cash out at all for that matter. Just spend the coins.
Next time I take a look at bitcoinity, it better be back up to 43xx.

[bitserve]

I understand that miners mine for profit but what about idealism?

Plenty of idealism in the Bitcoin Cash camp. Both users and miners. How else can you explain the chain being extended through the dark days of loss-inducing mining relative to mining core?

Hey Jbreher, do you still own most of your stash in BTC? Do you really think this is good for your economical interests?

[bitserve]

You pay a 100% capital gains on whatever you get from it.

Move to the Cayman islands and you pay 0% capital gains on it. I don't see why anyone would want to cash out anywhere else, or cash out at all for that matter. Just spend the coins.
Next time I take a look at bitcoinity, it better be back up to 43xx.

Do you realise that "spending" the coins is a taxable event? Or are you just counting on they never figuring it out you did?

[Torque]

Do you realise that "spending" the coins is a taxable event?

If someone gives a merchant bitcoin in exchange for goods or services, and then the merchant cashes that bitcoin out for fiat directly to his bank account, then who is doing the "spending"? Hmmm?

[conspirosphere.tk]

In the US, you owe taxes on the value when you receive it and then again if there are gains when you sell it.

Are you really declaring your ownership of BTC? OMG.  

[bitserve]

Do you realise that "spending" the coins is a taxable event?

If someone gives a merchant bitcoin in exchange for goods or services, and then the merchant cashes that bitcoin out for fiat directly to his bank account, then who is doing the "spending"? Hmmm?

It's more simple than that. Usually when you buy something, that something is already priced in USD or whatever..... well, that is the price you have sold your BTC for. If it wasn't then we would need to use a "market value" of those goods/services  which add complexity to the calculation.... but, again, usually you do know what USD/EUR value you sold for. Now, declare accordingly, you shaddy criminal!

[HanvanBitcoin]

Looks like i failed to buy the dip  

Looks like i got a second chance  Bought back in @ $4060

[Lauda]

Do you realise that "spending" the coins is a taxable event?

No. If you don't convert, you don't need to pay anything at least not in Europe.

Or are you just counting on they never figuring it out you did?

Good luck with that one.

but, again, usually you do know what USD/EUR value you sold for. Now, declare accordingly, you shaddy criminal!

Are you telling me that every time I pay food delivery via BTC I have to visit the tax man?

[jbreher]

I understand that miners mine for profit but what about idealism?

Plenty of idealism in the Bitcoin Cash camp. Both users and miners. How else can you explain the chain being extended through the dark days of loss-inducing mining relative to mining core?

Hey Jbreher, do you still own most of your stash in BTC? Do you really think this is good for your economical interests?

Truth be told, it depends upon how you measure it. I own quite a bit more Bitcoin Cash than Bitcoin Core. However, my Bitcoin Core is -- for the moment -- worth more in USD terms than my Bitcoin Cash. I have been converting Bitcoin Core to Bitcoin Cash in small doses on a several-times-per-day basis since the fork.

Jillions of butthurt core-ians keep mouthing about how they are gonna dump Bitcoin Cash down to zero. I'm sitting here at my pick-a-nick table with plenty of ammo when they eventually get around to it. But it just doesn't seem to be happening. I think these big-mouthed core-ians are inwardly scared Bitcoin Cash will emerge victorious, and are hence hedging their bets. By not following through on their empty threats.

Yeah - you (the reader, not necessarily bitserve). Yeah - you. You know who you are.

[jbreher]

Do you realise that "spending" the coins is a taxable event?

If someone gives a merchant bitcoin in exchange for goods or services, and then the merchant cashes that bitcoin out for fiat directly to his bank account, then who is doing the "spending"? Hmmm?

According to the IRS (you are US-ian, no?), the person who is giving the item of value to the merchant. Even simple barter is fully taxable at prevailing fair market rates. True story. Sucks, but them's the statutes.

Just trying to keep you outa trouble...

[Torque]

Truth be told, it depends upon how you measure it. I own quite a bit more Bitcoin Cash than Bitcoin Core.

Bitcoin Core? I guess that's yet another new fork like BCash? Because we don't what that refers to here.

According to the IRS (you are US-ian, no?), the person who is giving the item of value to the merchant. Even simple barter is fully taxable at prevailing fair market rates. True story. Sucks, but them's the statutes.

Just trying to keep you outa trouble...

Thanks mom. As an American I'm not at all familiar with the tax laws here. /s

[bitserve]

Do you realise that "spending" the coins is a taxable event?

No. If you don't convert, you don't need to pay anything at least not in Europe.

Or are you just counting on they never figuring it out you did?

Good luck with that one.

but, again, usually you do know what USD/EUR value you sold for. Now, declare accordingly, you shaddy criminal!

Are you telling me that every time I pay food delivery via BTC I have to visit the tax man?

Yes, you should..... Maybe I am also counting on them not figuring out. But a taxable event is a taxable event, no matter what you think.

I will give you an easier example, in Europe:

You are European. Your currency is EUR. You exchange now 100.000€ for $117.000. Now you sit on it for a couple of years. Now your dollars are worth more EUR an you use them to buy a house that is worth 120.000€. Ok, you are suppossed to pay for 20.000€ capital gains. Get it now?

Of course, it is very unlikely they get you if you don't declare. But you are a shaddy criminal anyways

[rolling]

In the US, you owe taxes on the value when you receive it and then again if there are gains when you sell it.

Are you really declaring your ownership of BTC? OMG.  

I didn't say anything about what I am doing. Whether you declare it or not, you still owe it. Whether you want to evade paying taxes is up to you. I was just replying to the person who said you only owe when you spend it.