Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Torque]

... if S2X forks without replay protection, the fork will be a giant mess...

This is what is giving me pause deciding to sell BCH. As is, it provides a free protection option from this possible mess in November, so its utility in my eyes is more than the dumping gains at the moment.

and that's part of their plan. It's an attack on two fronts to lead you where they want you (in their shitcoin prison).

Yep. BitcoinXT failed. BU failed. BCH will fail. 2X will fail. And then what's next? Probably another fork. And another. And another. And another.

But that attack vector won't work. It'll lose any effectiveness whatsoever. Because after the 2X failure, Bitcoiner's belief and resolve in Bitcoin^TM will be solidified. Entrenched. Unshakable. They will have firmly cemented the very thing they have been desperately trying to undo: Belief.

Bitcoin^TM is King. All other fork clones are altcoin imitations designed to distract, dilute, and ultimately compromise the belief of the masses.

[Last of the V8s]

BTC is not exactly cheap and quick to send at the moment either. For a transaction with some inputs (976 bytes) Electrum suggested a whopping 0,0047BTC fee !

I was wondering what would happen, if I discard the standard Electrum fee with a transaction like this and instead send
it with a customized small fee like 0.00005 BTC.

If my transaction gets confirmed in a day or so, everything worked out.

What would happen to the transaction, if the mempool hasn´t been cleared and my transaction doesn´t get confirmed?
I read somewhere that it will be removed from the mempool after a few days, but what exactly happens to the sent funds
and the included fee? Are both returned to the sending address? Is it necessary to accelerate the transaction (how exactly
does that work?) and if I fail to do this the transaction amount + the attached fee are lost forever?

that fee is probably too small
you don't lose your money or fee if your tx is never confirmed
https://pool.viabtc.com/tools/txaccelerator/ Too low fee: We only provide accelerator services for those with at least 0.0001BTC/KB transaction fees;
google how to work out that part
don't believe much else on viabtc site
o one more thing q boring you have to press the submit button on that page at 1 and a half seconds before the hour!

[aesma]

BTC is not exactly cheap and quick to send at the moment either. For a transaction with some inputs (976 bytes) Electrum suggested a whopping 0,0047BTC fee !

I was wondering what would happen, if I discard the standard Electrum fee with a transaction like this and instead send
it with a customized small fee like 0.00005 BTC.

If my transaction gets confirmed in a day or so, everything worked out.

What would happen to the transaction, if the mempool hasn´t been cleared and my transaction doesn´t get confirmed?
I read somewhere that it will be removed from the mempool after a few days, but what exactly happens to the sent funds
and the included fee? Are both returned to the sending address? Is it necessary to accelerate the transaction (how exactly
does that work?) and if I fail to do this the transaction amount + the attached fee are lost forever?

With a low fee it will take forever to confirm or never confirm. The funds will be in limbo. You must shut down your wallet software and wait, after a week it should clear from the mempool. Electrum allows replaceable fees so that's another possibility, increase the fee. I've done it today, in fact.

Acceleration is done using viabtc transaction accelerator for example. The fee must still be at least 50 satoshis per byte.

My 976 bytes transaction turned out to be 1100 bytes or therabout when broadcast. Electrum gives false information, not cool. So it was under 50 satoshis/byte. I accelerated it but could not have the message that it had worked (I didn't have a message that it didn't work either). Two hours later I increased the fee a little, then accelerated it again, this time it worked, 1st confirmation about 1 hour later.

You must do the acceleration at the top of an hour to get a spot.

[megashira1]

... if S2X forks without replay protection, the fork will be a giant mess...

This is what is giving me pause deciding to sell BCH. As is, it provides a free protection option from this possible mess in November, so its utility in my eyes is more than the dumping gains at the moment.

and that's part of their plan. It's an attack on two fronts to lead you where they want you (in their shitcoin prison).

Yep. BitcoinXT failed. BU failed. BCH will fail. 2X will fail. And then what's next? Probably another fork. And another. And another. And another.

But that attack vector won't work. It'll lose any effectiveness whatsoever. Because after the 2X failure, Bitcoiner's belief and resolve in Bitcoin^TM will be galvanized. Entrenched. Unshakable. They will have firmly cemented the very thing they have been desperately trying to undo: Belief.

Bitcoin^TM is King. All other fork clones are altcoin imitations designed to distract, dilute, and ultimately compromise the belief of the masses.

How will 2x fail when it has 90% ecosystem support? It will be BTC (main chain) and the minority chain of Segwit1x will be non-contentious and rather trivial.

[becoin]

How will 2x fail when it has 90% ecosystem support?

On the contrary. B2X has 90% ecosystem rejection.
The same situation we already had with Bitcoin Classic, Bitcoin XT, Bitcoin Unlimited, now with Bitcoin Cash, and same will be with Bitcoin 2X. Same people stand behind all of those! Some of them even sold out their bitcoins at $450 claiming that Bitcoin is broken and has no future...

[jbreher]

We could have 20 MB blocks and it would still be trivial to run a node at home on a single machine.  Mining is at peak centralization now for one reason: ASICs.  There are precious few manufacturers and they are smart enough to realize it is more profitable to just use them then to sell them.  If mining hardware were more widely available there would be much less centralization.  Block size is a red herring.

Of course, I'm merely guessing, but I guess you've not seen the recent work calculating the GINI coefficients regarding mining vis a vis other aspects of the ecosystem?

source please. craig?

Balaji Srinivasan (CEO of 21): https://news.21.co/quantifying-decentralization-e39db233c28e . There is a vid of him presenting this analysis on Youtube as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UXT5YVJwB4 . Bottom line: mining is one of the least centralized aspects of Bitcoin. Counterintuitive, but that's his analysis, anyhoo.

[jbreher]

Does anyone here use any of the Bitcoin debitcards that you can load with BTC and spend your BTC anywhere?

I want to get me one and any recommendations/warning etc would be appreciated.

The more private the better

I have the SHIFT card. It's from Coinbase. I don't use it - I'd rather spend fiat than crypto. But it is Visa-branded, and converts only at moment of purchase. I like having it, just in case I need it. Probably not private.

[Last of the V8s]

We could have 20 MB blocks and it would still be trivial to run a node at home on a single machine.  Mining is at peak centralization now for one reason: ASICs.  There are precious few manufacturers and they are smart enough to realize it is more profitable to just use them then to sell them.  If mining hardware were more widely available there would be much less centralization.  Block size is a red herring.

Of course, I'm merely guessing, but I guess you've not seen the recent work calculating the GINI coefficients regarding mining vis a vis other aspects of the ecosystem?

source please. craig?

Balaji Srinivasan (CEO of 21): https://news.21.co/quantifying-decentralization-e39db233c28e . There is a vid of him presenting this analysis on Youtube as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UXT5YVJwB4 . Bottom line: mining is one of the least centralized aspects of Bitcoin. Counterintuitive, but that's his analysis, anyhoo.

oh yeah thanks i guess. saw him getting the treatment on twitter when that came out. yeah, mining - maybe.

[Meuh6879]

and you need 20 ... ?

[fluidjax]

15 hours.

11 confirmations

B_itCH is fucking awesome ! _/s

Is mining this dual BCH/BCC system going to converge on a oscillation, an equilibrium or end up being chaotic?

[Meuh6879]

Last column = difficulty.

[megashira1]

How will 2x fail when it has 90% ecosystem support?

On the contrary. B2X has 90% ecosystem rejection.
The same situation we already had with Bitcoin Classic, Bitcoin XT, Bitcoin Unlimited, now with Bitcoin Cash, and same will be with Bitcoin 2X. Same people stand behind all of those! Some of them even sold out their bitcoins at $450 claiming that Bitcoin is broken and has no future...

What? Stop spreading misinformation. The economic majority behind Bitcoin have agreed on the 2x blocksize increase. They are the vested interests who have the greatest say as to the future direction of Bitcoin. This has already been agreed upon.

We will be getting a block-size upgrade for BTC and Segwit1x can chose to maintain a non-contentious minority chain if they so chose.

[fluidjax]

How will 2x fail when it has 90% ecosystem support?

On the contrary. B2X has 90% ecosystem rejection.
The same situation we already had with Bitcoin Classic, Bitcoin XT, Bitcoin Unlimited, now with Bitcoin Cash, and same will be with Bitcoin 2X. Same people stand behind all of those! Some of them even sold out their bitcoins at $450 claiming that Bitcoin is broken and has no future...

What? Stop spreading misinformation. The economic majority behind Bitcoin have agreed on the 2x blocksize increase. They are the vested interests who have the greatest say as to the future direction of Bitcoin. This has already been agreed upon.

We will be getting a block-size upgrade for BTC and Segwit1x can chose to maintain a non-contentious minority chain if they so chose.

You are forgetting the Users, we have the power, we buy the coins, and ultimately we determine the consensus.
The businesses and miners are just service providers, some have deep wallets, but they are not bottomless.
Most importantly none of us will let Bitcoin be controlled by private meetings and agreements in which we have no say. B2X can get the fuck-off my precious Bitcoin.

[Torque]

You are forgetting the Users, we have the power, we buy the coins, and ultimately we determine the consensus.
The businesses and miners are just service providers, some have deep wallets, but they are not bottomless.
Most importantly none of us will let Bitcoin be controlled by private meetings and agreements in which we have no say. B2X can get the fuck-off my precious Bitcoin.

No he's not forgetting. He's just another troll, shilling for [insert failed iteration fork/altcoin/token here]. Hilarious that the trolls keep trying to convince the economic majority of Users that Users in fact don't matter.

They can fork and pump dog shit to the absolute moon if they want. But Users won't buy, spend, and hodl it. Because price <> valuable. Just look at SNAP stock as example.

[becoin]

and you need 20 ... ?

Pretty awesome, huh ?!

(Haven't mined a block in 7 hours as of this post)

They don't need mining! They don't even need blockchain! Their blockchain is used only by users sending BCH to exchanges to sell them.

[empowering]

....meanwhile up on the hill


http://www.altcointoday.com/congressional-candidate-now-accepting-bitcoin-donations-2018-election/


(I want to slap that face for some reason)

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Have Xapo and Coinbase and such released their BCH's to users yet? I'm sure there will be a pump before that happens. And a monumental dump when they do.

[rjclarke2000]

Have Xapo and Coinbase and such released their BCH's to users yet? I'm sure there will be a pump before that happens. And a monumental dump when they do.

I thought Coinbase was January.

[blockinoutthehaters]

How will 2x fail when it has 90% ecosystem support?

On the contrary. B2X has 90% ecosystem rejection.
The same situation we already had with Bitcoin Classic, Bitcoin XT, Bitcoin Unlimited, now with Bitcoin Cash, and same will be with Bitcoin 2X. Same people stand behind all of those! Some of them even sold out their bitcoins at $450 claiming that Bitcoin is broken and has no future...

What? Stop spreading misinformation. The economic majority behind Bitcoin have agreed on the 2x blocksize increase. They are the vested interests who have the greatest say as to the future direction of Bitcoin. This has already been agreed upon.

We will be getting a block-size upgrade for BTC and Segwit1x can chose to maintain a non-contentious minority chain if they so chose.

Economic majority? Please define this.
Greatest say in the future direction of bitcoin? Bitcoin isn't a democracy.

I hope you have your eggs in both baskets because this will be a harsh lesson to learn for many.
You are about to trust a small group of individuals who already have a very very bad track record.
And once you give trust away, you'll never get it back.

[megashira1]

How will 2x fail when it has 90% ecosystem support?

On the contrary. B2X has 90% ecosystem rejection.
The same situation we already had with Bitcoin Classic, Bitcoin XT, Bitcoin Unlimited, now with Bitcoin Cash, and same will be with Bitcoin 2X. Same people stand behind all of those! Some of them even sold out their bitcoins at $450 claiming that Bitcoin is broken and has no future...

What? Stop spreading misinformation. The economic majority behind Bitcoin have agreed on the 2x blocksize increase. They are the vested interests who have the greatest say as to the future direction of Bitcoin. This has already been agreed upon.

We will be getting a block-size upgrade for BTC and Segwit1x can chose to maintain a non-contentious minority chain if they so chose.

You are forgetting the Users, we have the power, we buy the coins, and ultimately we determine the consensus.
The businesses and miners are just service providers, some have deep wallets, but they are not bottomless.
Most importantly none of us will let Bitcoin be controlled by private meetings and agreements in which we have no say. B2X can get the fuck-off my precious Bitcoin.

You are right, users do have the power. They have the power to determine consensus after the decisions of the economic majority have been made. The interests of the economic majority is to appease it's users through making a long term working product which the free market will want; not to intentionally destroy their own investment. More demand turns into more profit for these interests.

If you the user believe the economic majority to be making the wrong decision you are free to go support another project. After all, you hold the power.