Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Wekkel]

Predictions: 16K by 2018, 100K by 2025. What do you guys think?

16K 2018 is positive, but doable (looks like we go bubble again soon).

100k by 2025 is much too conservative. That would be 7 (!) agonising years with not much happening to Bitcoin except for dribbling higher.

[xhomerx10]

Well I successfully did that. But had I left my original investment in it would have nearly doubled in fiat value again. C'est la vie.

 If it's any consolation, I'm going to be liquidating $2M worth of BTC middle of 2018 and retiring early.

 I'm already kicking myself because I know in another 10 years, that $2M i'm going to sell will be incalculably more valuable.

Why buy that much fiat all at once? Why not just buy as much as you need as you go along.

I'd rather be retired with as much Bitcoin as possible growing in cold storage far more than a bunch of crumbling dollars in some bank account.

If you need to buy a new car, or some  real estate, or simply some cash to party with, by all means spend some coins as need be.

Otherwise it makes more sense to just continue holding.

  I wouldn't cash in enough Bitcoin to buy a car or real estate even.  Borrow the fiat and pay it on time.  In the 4 years you are paying off the vehicle with fiat or the 25 years of the mortgage, Bitcoin will have appreciated much more than the interest rate of your loan.  In the US you can also write off your mortgage interest against your income.

[bones261]

Is there any danger in holding coins on a segwit address vs a legacy address in trezor? Say if segwit got back-peddled.

I don't think so. I can't see any scenario right now where SegWit would get deprecated, at least in the foreseeable future.

As with any software, there is always the possibility of some vulnerability lurking about. I have heard that it may be possible to rollback the Segwit transactions and reward the attacker via a 51% attack. However, any coins you hold, segwit or not, are vulnerable to being lost in a 51% attack. So whatever. I really do not see any big player wanting to implement a 51% anyway since the market is not liquid enough to help them make a huge profit by shorting before the attack is implemented. I would think after a successful attack, BTC would be basically worthless anyway. So the attacker could not possibly profit from dumping any ill gotten gains. I doubt any big player would be willing to expend millions if not billions just to destroy BTC outright. If they wanted to do this to divert equity away from BTC to some other asset market, it's likely to not divert enough equity to their pet asset to make such an attack profitable.

[JimboToronto]

Well I successfully did that. But had I left my original investment in it would have nearly doubled in fiat value again. C'est la vie.

 If it's any consolation, I'm going to be liquidating $2M worth of BTC middle of 2018 and retiring early.

 I'm already kicking myself because I know in another 10 years, that $2M i'm going to sell will be incalculably more valuable.

Why buy that much fiat all at once? Why not just buy as much as you need as you go along.

I'd rather be retired with as much Bitcoin as possible growing in cold storage far more than a bunch of crumbling dollars in some bank account.

If you need to buy a new car, or some  real estate, or simply some cash to party with, by all means spend some coins as need be.

Otherwise it makes more sense to just continue holding.

What if Bitcoin implodes and goes down to zero? What then? I think his approach is smarter, as he is guaranteed to enjoy the rest of his life with his $2m, even if Bitcoin disappears. And he is still left with more than 600 BTC for the future.

What if the dollar implodes and goes down to zero? It's probably as likely as Bitcoin imploding and going to zero, although both are extremely unlikely.

I can see hedging your bet by spending some coins on appreciating assets like businesses, land, or other means of production.

Fiat currency doesn't appreciate. It's a depreciating asset.

[erre]

Why buy that much fiat all at once? Why not just buy as much as you need as you go along.

1) For tax purposes - Really simplifies things for that year - I need to start thinking about simplifying taxes if I'm retiring.
2) So I can properly allocate it, in one go, to institutional investments that I can consistently draw down-on before I turn 65 - When my retirement portfolio becomes accessible

 I thought about selling BTC as needed - It's likely to be much more lucrative long-term - but I'm someone who likes simplicity when it comes to accounting and the IRS.

 Either way, still have 9 months or so before I'll be doing anything.

 God only knows what Bitcorn is going to do between now and then...

You are an hero.
I didn't know how you managed to hold an amount of btc sufficient for retirement for a so long time, my fear is that if I will ever achieve it (and we're talking about far more than lambo levels, because my stash is damned too little) I will immediately sell 90% or so for retirement purpose.

[JimboToronto]

Why buy that much fiat all at once? Why not just buy as much as you need as you go along.

1) For tax purposes - Really simplifies things for that year - I need to start thinking about simplifying taxes if I'm retiring.
2) So I can properly allocate it, in one go, to institutional investments that I can consistently draw down-on before I turn 65 - When my retirement portfolio becomes accessible

 I thought about selling BTC as needed - It's likely to be much more lucrative long-term - but I'm someone who likes simplicity when it comes to accounting and the IRS.

 Either way, still have 9 months or so before I'll be doing anything.

 God only knows what Bitcorn is going to do between now and then...

Fair enough. I can understand the tax thing as it falls into the category of stress avoidance and stress is a killer. However, depending on the tax laws where you live it could cost you. Here in Canada you only need to pay capital gains taxes as you sell your coins and you'd save a lot by splitting it up over multiple years.

As for your "institutional investments", you're not really selling your coins. You're using them to purchase other financial/investment products. That's exactly what I was talking about in my last post, hedging your bet by buying appreciating assets.

[AlcoHoDL]

Well I successfully did that. But had I left my original investment in it would have nearly doubled in fiat value again. C'est la vie.

 If it's any consolation, I'm going to be liquidating $2M worth of BTC middle of 2018 and retiring early.

 I'm already kicking myself because I know in another 10 years, that $2M i'm going to sell will be incalculably more valuable.

Why buy that much fiat all at once? Why not just buy as much as you need as you go along.

I'd rather be retired with as much Bitcoin as possible growing in cold storage far more than a bunch of crumbling dollars in some bank account.

If you need to buy a new car, or some  real estate, or simply some cash to party with, by all means spend some coins as need be.

Otherwise it makes more sense to just continue holding.

What if Bitcoin implodes and goes down to zero? What then? I think his approach is smarter, as he is guaranteed to enjoy the rest of his life with his $2m, even if Bitcoin disappears. And he is still left with more than 600 BTC for the future.

What if the dollar implodes and goes down to zero? It's probably as likely as Bitcoin imploding and going to zero, although both are extremely unlikely.

I can see hedging your bet by spending some coins on appreciating assets like businesses, land, or other means of production.

Fiat currency doesn't appreciate. It's a depreciating asset.

I do hope you're right about Bitcoin going to zero being extremely unlikely. If Bitcoin's value keeps increasing, then it's obvious that your strategy makes the most sense and guarantees maximum profitability, and also low to zero taxation for those of us with modest needs, as the conversion to fiat can be kept to a minimum and only when needed. Also, converting large amounts of BTC to fiat has its own problems. Do we trust the banks to hold our fiat? What if there's a bail-in, as it has already happened in Cyprus? Then there's the depreciation of fiat due to inflation.

All these are valid reasons not to liquidate, and follow your strategy, provided Bitcoin keeps rising (or, at least, not dropping) in value. I hope Bitcoin has a bright future, but no one can know for sure, hence my conservative reply to BobLawblaw's post.

[STT]

This is actually a lambo and practical and I suggest also using it to carry some gold bars not spending just for supercars.    Working assets is the best way to save, diversify to meet future costs hence why property used to be such a good idea.   Land and the skills to build a house or help build a house seems a good investment imo, never stay all in one thing outside of speculation

[fabiorem]

Why the hard swallowing?

He is practically stuttering the entire video.  

[JimboToronto]

Why buy that much fiat all at once? Why not just buy as much as you need as you go along.

I'd rather be retired with as much Bitcoin as possible growing in cold storage far more than a bunch of crumbling dollars in some bank account.

If you need to buy a new car, or some  real estate, or simply some cash to party with, by all means spend some coins as need be.

Otherwise it makes more sense to just continue holding.

What if Bitcoin implodes and goes down to zero? What then? I think his approach is smarter, as he is guaranteed to enjoy the rest of his life with his $2m, even if Bitcoin disappears. And he is still left with more than 600 BTC for the future.

What if the dollar implodes and goes down to zero? It's probably as likely as Bitcoin imploding and going to zero, although both are extremely unlikely.

I can see hedging your bet by spending some coins on appreciating assets like businesses, land, or other means of production.

Fiat currency doesn't appreciate. It's a depreciating asset.

I do hope you're right about Bitcoin going to zero being extremely unlikely. If Bitcoin's value keeps increasing, then it's obvious that your strategy makes the most sense and guarantees maximum profitability, and also low to zero taxation for those of us with modest needs, as the conversion to fiat can be kept to a minimum and only when needed. Also, converting large amounts of BTC to fiat has its own problems. Do we trust the banks to hold our fiat? What if there's a bail-in, as it has already happened in Cyprus? Then there's the depreciation of fiat due to inflation.

All these are valid reasons not to liquidate, and follow your strategy, provided Bitcoin keeps rising (or, at least, not dropping) in value. I hope Bitcoin has a bright future, but no one can know for sure, hence my conservative reply to BobLawblaw's post.

Indeed, there's a risk with everything. Even land can become unusable under certain circumstances. Banks can default and businesses can fail.

Risk reduction through diversification is a good thing. Fiat currency is just something I choose not to invest too much into.
_______

When I finally spend some of my hard-earned Bitcoin, I plan on buying land and and new implanted teeth and paying off what the taxman thinks I owe them. That would total more than what I spent to acquire all my coins. Then my entire stash would be gravy. That might be as early as January.

I've already arranged to buy the land with Bitcoin. I'm hoping the dental tourism clinic will accept Bitcoin as well. That just leaves the Canada Revenue Agency to be paid in dollars, so I guess I'll have to buy enough to pay them.

[realr0ach]

But a wildcard that I'm expecting is the implosion of Finex.

Agree 100%.  Like I said 1000x times before, the bitcoin price has mostly been controlld by a SINGLE ENTITY on Bitfinex ever since it was $200.  If a market is almost entirely controlled by one person, it's not a market, it's a fucking scam.  There is obviously very shady shit going on at Finex ever since they stole all those bitcoins during the halving then claimed they were "hacked".  

All I hope for is that someone at Bitfinex goes to prison when this bitcoin bubble eventually implodes, except I wouldn't discount the idea that it's possible someone from Goldman Sachs or the US govt is involved and nobody goes to prison.  It's impossible Fort Knox has over 2000 tons of gold in it (more likely probably 0), so they might be trying to distract people from buying metals by creating a bitcoin bubble.  China and Russia are both in the process of re-monetizing gold though, so if the US is pushing that scam strategy, it's going to blow up in their face anyway.

In case anyone forgot about Bitfinex's lies about their "hack", I screenshotted and documented the whole thing as it occurred.  The first picture in the second link also shows you how obvious it is Bitfinex price is controlled entirely by a single entity with a high probability of being the staff themselves:

http://steemit.com/news/@r0achtheunsavory/bitfinex-is-lying-about-the-hack-and-i-can-tell-you-exactly-what-likely-happened

http://steemit.com/money/@r0achtheunsavory/the-r0ach-report-vol-3-bitfinex-scamming-intensifies-and-more-on-the-silver-and-gold-markets

[gembitz]

Why buy that much fiat all at once? Why not just buy as much as you need as you go along.

I'd rather be retired with as much Bitcoin as possible growing in cold storage far more than a bunch of crumbling dollars in some bank account.

If you need to buy a new car, or some  real estate, or simply some cash to party with, by all means spend some coins as need be.

Otherwise it makes more sense to just continue holding.

What if Bitcoin implodes and goes down to zero? What then? I think his approach is smarter, as he is guaranteed to enjoy the rest of his life with his $2m, even if Bitcoin disappears. And he is still left with more than 600 BTC for the future.

What if the dollar implodes and goes down to zero? It's probably as likely as Bitcoin imploding and going to zero, although both are extremely unlikely.

I can see hedging your bet by spending some coins on appreciating assets like businesses, land, or other means of production.

Fiat currency doesn't appreciate. It's a depreciating asset.

I do hope you're right about Bitcoin going to zero being extremely unlikely. If Bitcoin's value keeps increasing, then it's obvious that your strategy makes the most sense and guarantees maximum profitability, and also low to zero taxation for those of us with modest needs, as the conversion to fiat can be kept to a minimum and only when needed. Also, converting large amounts of BTC to fiat has its own problems. Do we trust the banks to hold our fiat? What if there's a bail-in, as it has already happened in Cyprus? Then there's the depreciation of fiat due to inflation.

All these are valid reasons not to liquidate, and follow your strategy, provided Bitcoin keeps rising (or, at least, not dropping) in value. I hope Bitcoin has a bright future, but no one can know for sure, hence my conservative reply to BobLawblaw's post.

Indeed, there's a risk with everything. Even land can become unusable under certain circumstances. Banks can default and businesses can fail.

Risk reduction through diversification is a good thing. Fiat currency is just something I choose not to invest too much into.
_______

When I finally spend some of my hard-earned Bitcoin, I plan on buying land and and new implanted teeth and paying off what the taxman thinks I owe them. That would total more than what I spent to acquire all my coins. Then my entire stash would be gravy. That might be as early as January.

I've already arranged to buy the land with Bitcoin. I'm hoping the dental tourism clinic will accept Bitcoin as well. That just leaves the Canada Revenue Agency to be paid in dollars, so I guess I'll have to buy enough to pay them.

 

#bitcoin dentist

weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[gembitz]

But a wildcard that I'm expecting is the implosion of Finex.

Agree 100%.  Like I said 1000x times before, the bitcoin price has mostly been controlld by a SINGLE ENTITY on Bitfinex ever since it was $200.  If a market is almost entirely controlled by one person, it's not a market, it's a fucking scam.  There is obviously very shady shit going on at Finex ever since they stole all those bitcoins during the halving then claimed they were "hacked".  

All I hope for is that someone at Bitfinex goes to prison when this bitcoin bubble eventually implodes, except I wouldn't discount the idea that it's possible someone from Goldman Sachs or the US govt is involved and nobody goes to prison.  It's impossible Fort Knox has over 2000 tons of gold in it (more likely probably 0), so they might be trying to distract people from buying metals by creating a bitcoin bubble.  China and Russia are both in the process of re-monetizing gold though, so if the US is pushing that scam strategy, it's going to blow up in their face anyway.

8K lucky~here yee >.>u r all controlled by a monkey! :-D weeeeeee

[conspirosphere.tk]

Predictions: 16K by 2018, 100K by 2025. What do you guys think?

For the moment it looks like we need a correction soon even on the long term log chart.

[FractalUniverse]

Agree 100%.  Like I said 1000x times before, the bitcoin price has mostly been controlld by a SINGLE ENTITY on Bitfinex ever since it was $200.  If a market is almost entirely controlled by one person, it's not a market, it's a fucking scam.  There is obviously very shady shit going on at Finex ever since they stole all those bitcoins during the halving then claimed they were "hacked".

u r all controlled by a monkey! :-D weeeeeee

[micalith]

up or down from here debate across the internet is getting intense. I like this pitch here:

 https://twitter.com/cryptopicasso/status/927159979559280640

[Ted E. Bare]

I'm holding forever but I have to admit this went up quick!

[gembitz]

Agree 100%.  Like I said 1000x times before, the bitcoin price has mostly been controlld by a SINGLE ENTITY on Bitfinex ever since it was $200.  If a market is almost entirely controlled by one person, it's not a market, it's a fucking scam.  There is obviously very shady shit going on at Finex ever since they stole all those bitcoins during the halving then claimed they were "hacked".

u r all controlled by a monkey! :-D weeeeeee

got tokens? ===> who is pumping NXT? :-D weeee


https://poloniex.com/exchange#btc_nxt

[Meuh6879]

I can't see any scenario right now where SegWit would get deprecated, at least in the foreseeable future.

indeed, segwit address rise ...

[Last of the V8s]