Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[fabiorem]

There has never been a crash that preserved more than 50% of the past ATH.

The user support is around 8k, and miner support is around 5k.

5k is nearly 1/3 of current price. This would be a massive crash already.

Next time dont go short, go long.

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[criptix]

Do you guys think I should redo the poll, or let it stand?

P.S.
Prices on the Korean exchanges are approaching $20,000.

just do weekly/4 day polls please.

we are trying to go parabolic right now...

trying? THIS is trying? i think we got there.

i just hope it holds more then 1 day 

[Ibian]

What gets me is we all know automation is coming, but so few people put any effort at all into figuring out how it works and how they could improve their jobs and wages with it.

many people will lose their jobs because of automation and that will be a big problem.

Not entirely true. Automation also creates loads of jobs. It requires technical innovation, designers, programmers, builders ect.. Why would we 'humans' perform hard labor if we can program and build machines to do it for us? We need to keep evolving  

I'd rather have more machines do labor for us so others can focus on taking care of our elder people or other stuff that matters more.

The people who take care of the elders are called "children". And we haven't had enough of them for the past 30 years.

It could easily be argued that the pension old people get should be proportional to the number of kids they sired, and possibly grandkids as well. If we have to have a socialist state, that is.

but then we have sub saharan population problems everywhere

No, we have sophists like you unable to make a living. And therefore dying. Thus making the world a better place.

[lightfoot]

And I saw 17k this afternoon in a meeting and thought "I could just start touching myself here..." Then it went down to 16k and doom filled my heart....

[criptix]

What gets me is we all know automation is coming, but so few people put any effort at all into figuring out how it works and how they could improve their jobs and wages with it.

many people will lose their jobs because of automation and that will be a big problem.

Not entirely true. Automation also creates loads of jobs. It requires technical innovation, designers, programmers, builders ect.. Why would we 'humans' perform hard labor if we can program and build machines to do it for us? We need to keep evolving  

I'd rather have more machines do labor for us so others can focus on taking care of our elder people or other stuff that matters more.

The people who take care of the elders are called "children". And we haven't had enough of them for the past 30 years.

It could easily be argued that the pension old people get should be proportional to the number of kids they sired, and possibly grandkids as well. If we have to have a socialist state, that is.

but then we have sub saharan population problems everywhere

No, we have sophists like you unable to make a living. And therefore dying. Thus making the world a better place.

PC alarm 

[Nikolaj06]

What gets me is we all know automation is coming, but so few people put any effort at all into figuring out how it works and how they could improve their jobs and wages with it.

many people will lose their jobs because of automation and that will be a big problem.

Not entirely true. Automation also creates loads of jobs. It requires technical innovation, designers, programmers, builders ect.. Why would we 'humans' perform hard labor if we can program and build machines to do it for us? We need to keep evolving  

I'd rather have more machines do labor for us so others can focus on taking care of our elder people or other stuff that matters more.

the unskilled/uneducated people will lose their jobs first. they can not become designers, programmers and builders.

Well imagine if you where unskilled/uneducated but wearing a pair of googleglasses that would tell you exactly step by step how to operate a verry complex machine? Everything is possible with technology......

Without automation our food, clothes ect. would all become more and more expensive. We woudn't even be able to feed everyon on this world without it actually..... Its a MUST if we want to survive with this many people on this planet.

No one here is opposed automation I imagine.. Yes it is for sure needed to keep our standard of living.
I however do not believe that there will be enough jobs for everyone to work the long hours we do now. So things need to change if automation cause the major disruption it's predicted to do.

Either unemployment skyrockets, in the worst case causing extreme poverty and eventually riots/revolution. Or everyone agrees to lower weekly working hours and shares the income like that (which also means that wages for sure need to go up). Or some sort of UBI is implemented, so no one if forced into poverty.

This is of course some ways away, but I certainly cannot see many new jobs coming, like it's happened the past 200 years. There's quite a few good videos on youtube explaining exactly why that is

[Mythase]

WHAT AN INSANE DAY!

[realr0ach]

What gets me is we all know automation is coming, but so few people put any effort at all into figuring out how it works and how they could improve their jobs and wages with it.

many people will lose their jobs because of automation and that will be a big problem.

Not entirely true. Automation also creates loads of jobs. It requires technical innovation, designers, programmers, builders ect.. Why would we 'humans' perform hard labor if we can program and build machines to do it for us? We need to keep evolving  

I'd rather have more machines do labor for us so others can focus on taking care of our elder people or other stuff that matters more.

the unskilled/uneducated people will lose their jobs first. they can not become designers, programmers and builders.

None of you have addressed the real talking points behind the issue.  The real points to be addressed are:

1)  Declining returns of increased complexity and specialization

2)  The fact the human brain is not elastic and can't just adapt to infinite complexity

One can make the argument that high complexity exerted onto the finite system of the human brain is just a synonym for the word "stress".  This is why lots of mathematicians go insane.  Some brains are better able to handle complexity than others, but there's a relative hard limit here, and the entire population cannot and will not just shift into permanent, exponential complexity.  It would take a minimum of something like a hundred thousand to a million years to evolve into it, if even possible due to physical structural limits (extrapolated from the cognitive difference in Europeans and Africans and the 50,000-100,000 years of genetic isolation between the two).

The other issue is that there are no returns to be had by increasing complexity.  For example, the Joseph Tainter comparison about the US defense budget, where it requires x% of the budget to create an airplane one year, with that percentage increasing every single year until it requires leveraging the knowledge and capital of the entire population to create one airplane.  There's just no benefit to be had.  All you do by increasing complexity past a certain point is overspecializing where if a shortage pops up in one sector to keep the machine running, the entire civilization collapses into a dark ages.  This is probably why cyclical dark ages are inevitable, to correct overspecialization.

The day you try to force everyone to "become a programmer or designer", you will have another dark ages the day afterwards.

[Ibian]

What gets me is we all know automation is coming, but so few people put any effort at all into figuring out how it works and how they could improve their jobs and wages with it.

many people will lose their jobs because of automation and that will be a big problem.

Not entirely true. Automation also creates loads of jobs. It requires technical innovation, designers, programmers, builders ect.. Why would we 'humans' perform hard labor if we can program and build machines to do it for us? We need to keep evolving  

I'd rather have more machines do labor for us so others can focus on taking care of our elder people or other stuff that matters more.

The people who take care of the elders are called "children". And we haven't had enough of them for the past 30 years.

It could easily be argued that the pension old people get should be proportional to the number of kids they sired, and possibly grandkids as well. If we have to have a socialist state, that is.

but then we have sub saharan population problems everywhere

No, we have sophists like you unable to make a living. And therefore dying. Thus making the world a better place.

PC alarm 

Yep. Death is coming, in whatever cloak. Maybe in a year, or five, or twenty. But in our lifetime. It is what it is.

[arklan]

on the subject of making a living...

imagine how many geniuses in the arts and such go utterly unknown simply because they are too busy trying to earn FOOD and shelter to actually DO anything with their talents and ideas.

oh wait, we already HAVE that. fuck working just to survive. it's literally not worth the trouble. just die. the end result is the same. if you can't MAKE something or really contribute, why bother existing?

and i do NOT count retail or food service or all that other "well, it's a job" bullshit as contributing. if a machine CAN do it, a machine should, thus freeing us up to explore that which machines can't do, like music and art and sculpture and theoretical physics and astronomy and geology and handmade carpentry and metalworking. (yes, machines can make chairs or knives or whatever, perfectly functional ones, but not ART ones!)

if you can't tell, i'm really sick of the daily grind and would much rather be out in my shop (which i don't actually have - can't afford it) making something like a knife or a prop for a cosplay or something.

[Ivor Biggun]

And I saw 17k this afternoon in a meeting and thought "I could just start touching myself here..." Then it went down to 16k and doom filled my heart....

I saw $19697 on GDAX today and thought all the other exchanges must be close to $20k. Then GDAX went back down to $16k and I realized all the other exchanges hadn't gone significantly above $16k.

[drbrockcoin]

What gets me is we all know automation is coming, but so few people put any effort at all into figuring out how it works and how they could improve their jobs and wages with it.

The point of automation is not to improve your job or create a new one. It is to make your job obsolete. This is only a problem, because in the current system one has to have a job in order to get money and survive (unless you already are rich and can let your money work for you). In any sane system we would cheer unemployment.

Tell me about it. Bring on Star Trek already. This world we are in right now is pretty rubbish right now  

[arklan]

i've got a trailing stop sell on bitstamp, ONE DOLLAR behind the price. put it in at 15699 when the price was 15700. IT HASN'T TRIGGERED. what the hell is going on!?

not that i want to SELL, just lock in my current profit.

[fabiorem]

I'm wandering...who's going to buy bitcoin at a million and thinks it's a good price?

I'm for it being used not just for selling when it gets to a mill

We just change the units. 1000 milibits = 1 bitcoin.

[Rosewater Foundation]

I don't think I'll be able to make this money last until I'm 105. I need to get a game plan. And a robot.

[Neo_Coin]

And I saw 17k this afternoon in a meeting and thought "I could just start touching myself here..." Then it went down to 16k and doom filled my heart....

I saw $19697 on GDAX today and thought all the other exchanges must be close to $20k. Then GDAX went back down to $16k and I realized all the other exchanges hadn't gone significantly above $16k.

GDax and Coinbase had problems

[drbrockcoin]

on the subject of making a living...

imagine how many geniuses in the arts and such go utterly unknown simply because they are too busy trying to earn FOOD and shelter to actually DO anything with their talents and ideas.

oh wait, we already HAVE that. fuck working just to survive. it's literally not worth the trouble. just die. the end result is the same. if you can't MAKE something or really contribute, why bother existing?

and i do NOT count retail or food service or all that other "well, it's a job" bullshit as contributing. if a machine CAN do it, a machine should, thus freeing us up to explore that which machines can't do, like music and art and sculpture and theoretical physics and astronomy and geology and handmade carpentry and metalworking. (yes, machines can make chairs or knives or whatever, perfectly functional ones, but not ART ones!)

if you can't tell, i'm really sick of the daily grind and would much rather be out in my shop (which i don't actually have - can't afford it) making something like a knife or a prop for a cosplay or something.

+1

[drbrockcoin]

i've got a trailing stop sell on bitstamp, ONE DOLLAR behind the price. put it in at 15699 when the price was 15700. IT HASN'T TRIGGERED. what the hell is going on!?

not that i want to SELL, just lock in my current profit.

me too i am having a lot of trailing buys and sells not triggering or going through at the wrong price.. I think the market is too wild?

[arklan]

i've got a trailing stop sell on bitstamp, ONE DOLLAR behind the price. put it in at 15699 when the price was 15700. IT HASN'T TRIGGERED. what the hell is going on!?

not that i want to SELL, just lock in my current profit.

me too i am having a lot of trailing buys and sells not triggering or going through at the wrong price.. I think the market is too wild?

yea, switched to an instant and did it, went fine.

[realr0ach]

NASA logo barf bag ready

The reason you might want a barf bag is that In-Q-Tel was the one buying up all the coins when they were $1, so purchasing bitcoin higher is essentially contributing money to the CIA.  If you think I'm kidding, no.  The only question is how many coins they control which were bought at next to nothing.