Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[windjc]

Lol that stamp dump

Huobi went the other way

I have no idea which way this will go by tomorrow. Could be anywhere, 50/50 for me for now.

When I see stamp leading a drop, it tells me people are taking fiat profits off the exchange, not trading.  Stamp is the place to go for that.  My hunch is those three big dumps we saw at 3:15, 10:45 and 17:15 PST were guys cashing out.  All triggered by the mining centralization issue, in my opinion.

This mining centralization thing is ridiculous. Its not an issue for so many different various reasons, the most obvious one is who wants to take a gun and shoot themselves right between the eyes?  You find me that person who is also a powerful miner and I will start worrying too. Actually I won't. Because the whole issue is retarded mentally handicapped.

If you're content relying on all "powerful miners" having the same interests as you do, there's nothing much more I can say.

No. But the current argument goes like this ---> "Oh noos, we have to trust GHash.io!!! What will they do?"

Which they released a press release explaining the obvious truth of what they would do --> protect their business interests by preventing a 51% power.

And then it's "Oh Noooss!!! But what if GHASH.io is owned by a big bank or government!! They could destroy everything!!

To which the answer is, if your really believe that, get the fuck out of bitcoin.

I mean, this is beyond ridiculous.

[Walsoraj]

Lol that stamp dump

Huobi went the other way

I have no idea which way this will go by tomorrow. Could be anywhere, 50/50 for me for now.

When I see stamp leading a drop, it tells me people are taking fiat profits off the exchange, not trading.  Stamp is the place to go for that.  My hunch is those three big dumps we saw at 3:15, 10:45 and 17:15 PST were guys cashing out.  All triggered by the mining centralization issue, in my opinion.

This mining centralization thing is ridiculous. Its not an issue for so many different various reasons, the most obvious one is who wants to take a gun and shoot themselves right between the eyes?  You find me that person who is also a powerful miner and I will start worrying too. Actually I won't. Because the whole issue is retarded mentally handicapped.

If you're content relying on all "powerful miners" having the same interests as you do, there's nothing much more I can say.

Furthermore, it is not necessarily against the interest of bitcoin miners to attack the network. Doing so would cause altcoins to rocket. Investing in them before the attack = early retirement.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[JorgeStolfi]

And here I stopped ,  how will average Joe with no BTC purchase something with BTC ?

Please read the rest. Obviously average Joe will NOT care about it. Why would someone convert USD to BTC if they can buy with USD directly?

[adamstgBit]

lol nice

[windjc]

And here I stopped ,  how will average Joe with no BTC purchase something with BTC ?

Please read the rest. Obviously average Joe will NOT care about it. Why would someone convert USD to BTC if they can buy with USD directly?

The basic issue here Jorge is this ---> if you actually believed that it was a good possibility that one day Average Joe would care about bitcoin, then you wouldn't think that the Overstock news was bad.

You don't. You either only care about the current price or your a dinosaur academic type.

[JorgeStolfi]

Who is going to buy at Overstock using Bitcoin?

• a) Random Joe who has USD but no Bitcoin;
• b) Speculator who is trading in order to get hold of as much Bitcoin as he can;
• c) Speculator who is cashing out and leaving the market;
• d) Believer who is certain that 1 BTC will be worth 10,000 next year.
• e) Speculator who is trying to convince others to buy his bitcoins at higher price.

I think the range of types of people is grossly limited. There are many who just want to be part of something new and exciting.

Those are part of (a) or (d) depending on how much faith they have.  The (a)s would have the hassles and losses of converting USD to BTC, a limited choice of merchants, and will have nothing to show for it except the receipt. (A Lamborghini bought through that route looks exactly the same as one bought with USD.)

Or people who have BTC and want to actively spend them on stuff they need.

Those are included (c). (Perhaps I should have said "Miner or Speculator".) 

By the way, spending 1 Bitcoin that is supposed to be worth 10,000 USD next year to buy 900 USD worth of merchandise today is almost a confession that one has lost the Faith.

[adamstgBit]

wtf i cant see the bitcoin payment option on overstock.com 

[adamstgBit]

overstock is only in the USA right now.

it will be international soon.

that must be why.

when i hit check out it said " We are passing you to our partner, Borderfree. Your total including all customs, taxes, and shipping will be displayed at checkout."

damn it.

[solex]

overstock is only in the USA right now.

it will be international soon.

This is where the real power of Bitcoin becomes apparent. Overstock should see international sales increase at a faster rate than domestic sales.

[TooDumbForBitcoin]

Why would someone convert USD to BTC if they can buy with USD directly?

Specifically, in response to the question, because that person does not live in the US and does not have easy access to USD, but does have BTC.

Generally, in response to the idea of Overstock accepting BTC, the increase of the number of enterprises, especially well-known, well-heeled enterprises, who accept BTC is a good thing for BTC and bitcoiners.

For BTC to survive beyond the era of mining and the era of speculating, it has to be useful for things, including buying things over the internet.

[JorgeStolfi]

You either only care about the current price or your a dinosaur academic type.

I am a dinosaur academic type.

I understand enough of the protocol to believe that it is technically sound.  My skepticism is about the economic aspects.

It doesn't bother me that people are speculating (basically, gambling) on a market with very uncertain future -- as long as everybody understands the odds and risks.

It does bother me that Bitcoin is being "sold" by some with rather misleading claims, such as "the supply is limited" (true of Bitcoin, but not of cryptocurrencies in general), "transfers are anonymous", "cannot be stolen or taxed",
 "there are no fees", "banks and governments cannot touch it", etc. 

And it bothers me a lot when speculators turn to Latin America as a promising source of Rich Suckers -- who, they hope, will buy those overpriced Bitcoins that no longer find buyers in China, India, Europe and North America.

Not if I can help it.

[Davyd05]

Who is going to buy at Overstock using Bitcoin?

• a) Random Joe who has USD but no Bitcoin;
• b) Speculator who is trading in order to get hold of as much Bitcoin as he can;
• c) Speculator who is cashing out and leaving the market;
• d) Believer who is certain that 1 BTC will be worth 10,000 next year.
• e) Speculator who is trying to convince others to buy his bitcoins at higher price.

I think the range of types of people is grossly limited. There are many who just want to be part of something new and exciting.

Those are part of (a) or (d) depending on how much faith they have.  The (a)s would have the hassles and losses of converting USD to BTC, a limited choice of merchants, and will have nothing to show for it except the receipt. (A Lamborghini bought through that route looks exactly the same as one bought with USD.)

Or people who have BTC and want to actively spend them on stuff they need.

Those are included (c). (Perhaps I should have said "Miner or Speculator".)  

By the way, spending 1 Bitcoin that is supposed to be worth 10,000 USD next year to buy 900 USD worth of merchandise today is almost a confession that one has lost the Faith.

only if you don't buy another bitcoin via your exchange when you spend one.

EDIT: I think the price, priced in q2 launch of overstock I expect there will be a one week lag or more in the move for those who will want to speculate, those who want to buy on overstock via bitcoin in general, I would just knowing I have to pay 5 bucks for an gift card credit card and or ukash go go bitcoin cutting useless fee's when it can

[TooDumbForBitcoin]

And it bothers me a lot when speculators turn to Latin America as a promising source of Rich Suckers -- who, they hope, will buy those overpriced Bitcoins that no longer find buyers in China, India, Europe and North America.

Not if I can help it.

Your defiance in the face of an attack on Latin American victims is laudable.  As for your indifference to the Chinese, Indian, European and North American victims - there is a word for that.  I don't know what the word is, but I don't think it's good.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[windjc]

You either only care about the current price or your a dinosaur academic type.

I am a dinosaur academic type.

I understand enough of the protocol to believe that it is technically sound.  My skepticism is about the economic aspects.

It doesn't bother me that people are speculating (basically, gambling) on a market with very uncertain future -- as long as everybody understands the odds and risks.

It does bother me that Bitcoin is being "sold" by some with rather misleading claims, such as "the supply is limited" (true of Bitcoin, but not of cryptocurrencies in general), "transfers are anonymous", "cannot be stolen or taxed",
 "there are no fees", "banks and governments cannot touch it", etc. 

And it bothers me a lot when speculators turn to Latin America as a promising source of Rich Suckers -- who, they hope, will buy those overpriced Bitcoins that no longer find buyers in China, India, Europe and North America.

Not if I can help it.

I'll just say this. Based on the stereotypes of your misgivings, there is a lot for you to learn about Bitcoin. And if you study long enough your mind will probably change.

[KFR]

You either only care about the current price or your a dinosaur academic type.

I am a dinosaur academic type.

I understand enough of the protocol to believe that it is technically sound.  My skepticism is about the economic aspects.

It doesn't bother me that people are speculating (basically, gambling) on a market with very uncertain future -- as long as everybody understands the odds and risks.

It does bother me that Bitcoin is being "sold" by some with rather misleading claims, such as "the supply is limited" (true of Bitcoin, but not of cryptocurrencies in general), "transfers are anonymous", "cannot be stolen or taxed",
 "there are no fees", "banks and governments cannot touch it", etc.  

And it bothers me a lot when speculators turn to Latin America as a promising source of Rich Suckers -- who, they hope, will buy those overpriced Bitcoins that no longer find buyers in China, India, Europe and North America.

Not if I can help it.

I'd like to address those "misleading claims" if I may.

• "the supply is limited" (true of Bitcoin, but not of cryptocurrencies in general)

Well that's kind of the point isn't it.  Gold is not the only metal.  If I want gold I have to buy gold.  I can't just buy silver and say I have gold.  

The supply of Bitcoin is indeed strictly limited, which I'm sure you understand all too well having studied its protocol.

• "transfers are anonymous", "cannot be stolen or taxed"

Anyone "selling" bitcoins using these arguments is just a sleazy salesman.  

They're misleading nonsense but so are some of the things said about a broad variety of financial instruments sold in fiat every day.

• "there are no fees"

Just hyperbole.  

• "banks and governments cannot touch it"

Well, if handled correctly they of course can't.  I'm sure you understand this technical aspect too and you must therefore mean something slightly more nuanced and that's not coming across.


If you are out to defend Latin America from bitcoin, I'd urge you to seriously consider the chances that it may either a) not have much significant impact on that particular economy at all,  or b) just possibly it might even be a net positive outcome for Latin America if it adopted more rapidly than other global economies.  

[Peter R]

Why would someone convert USD to BTC if they can buy with USD directly?

Specifically, in response to the question, because that person does not live in the US and does not have easy access to USD, but does have BTC.

Nice.  I didn't realize this benefit till you mentioned it.  Sometimes it's also impossible to even pay with certain international credit cards, which is obviously not a problem with bitcoin/coinbase.  

[JorgeStolfi]

Fake volume is when a chinese exchanger has 400 to 500 btc on the orderbook but claims volume of 50k /day

I do not see the connection between the two.

Right now in http://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/huobi/btccny I see about 10 transactions per minute, which would be about 15,000 per day and thus about 3 BTC per transaction on average. 

Are they showing the entire order book, or only the N highest bids and lowest asks?

Is is possible that the exchanges are posting fake orders, that will never get closed with real transactions?

[justusranvier]

I'll just say this. Based on the stereotypes of your misgivings, there is a lot for you to learn about Bitcoin. And if you study long enough your mind will probably change.

Not likely. Academia is hardly independent from the established interests which Bitcoin threatens.

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."