Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Last of the V8s]

not sure what "Plagiarizism" is but it sounds wrong on both sides of the Atlantic

[StartupAnalyst]

[VB1001]

Coinbase Users Can Now Withdraw BSV to External Wallets

Coinbase noted in today’s announcement that it still does not offer services for buying or selling BSV on its platforms.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/coinbase-users-can-now-withdraw-bsv-to-external-wallets

[JayJuanGee]

[edited out]

Your post made me buy another $100 worth of btc today. I am at 4.70 now.

It is true that I am over cautious but I got my reasons. In 2015-2016 my business barely started to make money and everything I got was $25k. Now in hindsight it is easy to tell "You should have gone all in." but it is hard.

It is still hard for me to go all in right now. I don't know why.

I still feel like I have connections to FIAT. It is hard to leave everything behind and go full crypto. Takes courage.

You have to find what works for you, mindrust, and don't let peer pressure force you to do something that you are not ready to do.

It is possible that you need more tools.  I really don't believe in the "all in" approach, but I do believe in analyzing how much you are putting into bitcoin.  Risky, if bitcoin is your only investment, then likely you do have to keep more in fiat to balance that out.

Most traditional investors are recommending in the 1% to 10% into bitcoin versus other kinds of investments, and of course, if you are going on the more risky side of that, you may end up putting way higher amounts into bitcoin and not having other traditional investments, which seems to be gambling too much for me.. but hey, I built my traditional investments before diversifying into bitcoin...

I understand that if you are not starting out with much if any traditional investments, you might be more willing to put a higher percentage into bitcoin and even more leery of possible returns for more traditional investments.   

[Paashaas]

Indonesia have finally recognized Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies as commodities.

https://bitcoinist.com/indonesia-bitcoin-commodity-regulations/


Grayscale Q4 report finds institutional investors returning to ‘Bitcoin maximalism’

https://bitcoinist.com/grayscale-q4-bitcoin-max-institutions/

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

Argentina Settles Export Deal With Paraguay Using Bitcoin: https://cointelegraph.com/news/argentina-settles-export-deal-with-paraguay-using-bitcoin

In a reported first for both countries, Paraguay has bought pesticides and fumigation products  worth $7,100 from Argentina, using cryptocurrency to settle the deal. The purchase was paid for in BTC and then converted into Argentine peso to settle accounts with the exporter of the agricultural chemicals.

Meanwhile in Paraguay, global blockchain tech firm and Bitcoin mining manufacturer Bitfury partnered with South Korean peer-to-peer knowledge commons research firm, Commons Foundation, to launch several mining facilities in the country.

Things are looking very good for Bitcoin.

[JayJuanGee]

It is fine to own %5-10 gold but even if gold succeeds, I mean how much can it go? $5k? And if gold ever hits $5k,

I would say 5% on the high side.. You are giving way too much benefit of the doubt to gold.. perhaps 1% would be more prudent, especially like I already mentioned if you own BTC.

'The people' do not yet control monetary matters. I mean, they do, but they don't realize the power they (we) have. As such, central banks will determine the fate of gold for the foreseeable future.

What central banks can't control is the whirlwind that will be the inevitable result from the stupid policies adopted back in the 1910-1913 timeframe. All they will be able to do is react to the debt-fueled collapse of the world economic system.

But the world has endured monetary shocks in the past. And while painful, they don't necessarily portend armageddon. The... ::*ahem*:: honorable, learned, and wise leaders find a way to restart the party - usually at the expense of setting in motion yet another larger shock some years or decades into the future. Even in the central banking era, we've gotten through Bretton Woods, the Nixon gold shock, and other such events - each of which was a complete rearchitecting of the world's monetary system.

tl;dr: Worldwide monetary shock is coming; it won't be TEOTWAWKI; and central banks will guide us through to the other side.

Which is all just prefatory to saying that both mindrust's and JJG's number estimates are woefully low.

Central banks, by and large, own gold. Large stocks of gold. And those whose economies have advanced past their gold holdings are buying gold hand over fist. (There is a notable exception of Great Britain).

When the shit hits the fan, about the only tool the central banks have is a repricing of gold. Not by 4x, but by some double-digit multiple. I followed the figures at one time -- Rickards has a handle on the precise number -- but it's a damned sight higher than 4x.

If the monetary collapse happens within the next decade (a fair possibility), there is no way in hell the response will be Bitcoin. Ain't gonna happen. Those currently in power will not cede it to a ragtag bunch of innernet nerds. Sure - if the people writ large rise up and force the issue, it could happen. But they wont.

So no. Chance of gold being massively increased in value is a damn sight higher than 5%, and the increment in such an event will be a damn sight higher than 4x.

Now I'm not saying Bitcoin will be a lagging investment in comparison. Nay, even with the scenario outlined above, I expect Bitcoin to handily outperform PMs. But in discussing alt assets, let's at least be real.

Just in regards to your last statement, above.  I think that i am being real with a suggestion of a 5% ceiling on dinosaur PM investments.  BTC is likely to be a sufficient hedge, but of course, some of this depends on other investments that you have, too.. and how much you value mobility.  

Personally, at this time, I don't own any gold because i don't want to have to store the shit (and I don't want paper gold, either), but with my BTC profits I could buy some gold, if I were to want to, if later I transform into a belief that gold could possibly serve as a meaningful hedge..  

By the way, if you are geographically stable, and you are already used to buying gold, then maybe you are more inclined.  I have neither of those nor any desire to become more geographically stable or to learn about what is authentic gold, at this time.  Bitcoin is much more practical in that regards - portable, divisible, verifiable, and 24/7 ability to play around with it without 3rd parties getting in the way.  

[mindrust]

[edited out]

Your post made me buy another $100 worth of btc today. I am at 4.70 now.

It is true that I am over cautious but I got my reasons. In 2015-2016 my business barely started to make money and everything I got was $25k. Now in hindsight it is easy to tell "You should have gone all in." but it is hard.

It is still hard for me to go all in right now. I don't know why.

I still feel like I have connections to FIAT. It is hard to leave everything behind and go full crypto. Takes courage.

You have to find what works for you, mindrust, and don't let peer pressure force you to do something that you are not ready to do.

It is possible that you need more tools.  I really don't believe in the "all in" approach, but I do believe in analyzing how much you are putting into bitcoin.  Risky, if bitcoin is your only investment, then likely you do have to keep more in fiat to balance that out.

Most traditional investors are recommending in the 1% to 10% into bitcoin versus other kinds of investments, and of course, if you are going on the more risky side of that, you may end up putting way higher amounts into bitcoin and not having other traditional investments, which seems to be gambling too much for me.. but hey, I built my traditional investments before diversifying into bitcoin...

I understand that if you are not starting out with much if any traditional investments, you might be more willing to put a higher percentage into bitcoin and even more leery of possible returns for more traditional investments.  

You got that right. BTC (16%) is my only serious investment.  %5 is in physical gold and the rest of the money sits in a bank account, collecting interest. I can't find any other instrument to invest in right now. Stocks are already overpriced and my whole networth which is $100k isnt really enough to make real estate investments.

In this not very bright picture my biggest chance is btc's expected moonwalk in 2021-2022.

If everything goes right, I'll probably end up with half a million dollars and it is probably enough for me.

Sometimes I am thinking of setting my goal to $1million but then I realize the danger I am in. Changing targets constantly is the most dangerous thing you can do. If you think a bit you'll (not just you but everybody who reads this post) understand.

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

SEC Starts Review of NYSE Arca’s Bitcoin ETF Rule Change Proposal : https://cointelegraph.com/news/sec-starts-review-of-nyse-arcas-bitcoin-etf-rule-change-proposal

[VB1001]

By Satoshi Nakamoto

Dedicated to all trolls.

After reading this ....
I will drink a beer.

[JayJuanGee]

Aren't patent trolls "losers," even if they make money? 

How so? There is a realistic debate to be had centering on the legitimacy of the concept of patents. But 'winners' and 'losers' are only identifiable as such within the context of the rules of the system. So, no: patent owners are by definition winners. At least to the extent to which others may want to employ the patented idea (i.e., even if they make money).

I think that I already explained my position. If you want to value winners based on their ability to get rich by any means, then you can do that.

By the way, didn't you get the memo, jbreher, that there is a certain level of justified hostility against the use of patents in the open source community underlying the "real" bitcoin..

And again with the complete mischaracterization of nChain's patents. They don't underly the "real" bitcoin (be it BSV, BTC, or BCH). They underly things that can interface with the "real" bitcoin (again, be it BSV, BTC, or BCH). Do you mischaracterize thusly because you are dishonest, or merely because you are ignorant?

By the way, didn't you get the memo, JJG, that 'hostility against' is meaningless in a decentralized, permissionless world?

hm?  Craig is one of the good guys, and he is not a fraudster.  I did not get that memo.

We are either going to believe the bullshit of craig wright or spend time researching into the extent to which shit that he proclaims is true.   Yeah, like I want to spend my time doing that.  For now, I will just be safe to consider him as an attack vector based on behaviors and actions that I have already seen from that nutjob.  I doubt it is a good use of time to try to figure out if there is some kind of possible validity in some of the things that he has done or is in the process of doing.  I will leave that to others, including you, if you want to go hang around with seeming fraudsters like that.

[El duderino_]

By Satoshi Nakamoto

Dedicated to all trolls.

After reading this ....
I will drink a beer.

Beste quote in the whole BTC history.....

[goldkingcoiner]

By Satoshi Nakamoto

Dedicated to all trolls.

After reading this ....
I will drink a beer.

WAAY better to wear this shirt when talking to no-coiners. My current strategy of anger and violence is not paying off.

[HI-TEC99]

The Virginia Police Department's pension fund is buying into Bitcoin.

https://www.ccn.com/fairfax-virginia-police-pension-why-bitcoin-crypto-bet?utm_source=vuukle&utm_medium=talk_of_town

[VB1001]

Edit:

Now if it is correct.

A great phrase.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=532.msg6306#msg6306

[d_eddie]

I'm still lagging some 80 pages, although I do try to keep up whenever I can. I guess that's what you get when life calls.

However, I managed to buy ~1 coin over the past week. That's what matters most! 

[Ibian]

So apparently Trump has declared a national emergency in order to fund the wall. He gets to define what a national emergency is, and forget the 5 billion for the wall, he went with 8 billion.

Top negotiator in teh white house.

[Cryptotourist]

<...>
I still feel like I have connections to FIAT. It is hard to leave everything behind and go full crypto. Takes courage.

I'm aware of some extreme cases that have already done so, but it's not really an option to go full on crypto. Not yet anyway.
Extremities are never good. Take r0ach as an example.

[infofront]

Lol at talking about a permissionless world and meanwhile believing patents hold merit.

Two different systems, each governing different spheres of activity.

While we don't all get a chance to write the rules, we all must live within them.

And yet these two "systems" are not so separate as you try to make them appear, are they?

I dunno. How similar is a frog to an apple?

Would you be honest enough to criticize Craig, if you knew he was wrong?

Sure. He's already made a lot of bone headed statements already. No, I'm not going to enumerate them.

What's that got to do with the nexus between open source and patents? Or Craig challenging JPM on a patent infringement issue, for that matter? Unless you want to make the claim that nChain has not a patent infringed upon by JPM. Which may be the case- I don't know. But my suspicion is that Craig's claim -- at least in this case -- may indeed be true. He can't simultaneously have a mound of patents (for which core sycophants regularly excoriate him), and not have any patents.

I don't have anything to add to the patent discussion. I just find it curious that you always rush to Craig's defense.

[goldkingcoiner]

https://www.coindesk.com/nyse-arca-filing-kicks-off-countdown-for-new-bitcoin-etf

Anyone taking this seriously anymore?

Will an ETF approval make a huge difference at this point anymore? We already seem to be finding other workarounds. Favoritism towards gold is pushing the ETF approval in the first place. People seem to be hoping it will have the same effect for BTC as it did for gold. Bitcoin has zero actual need for an ETF