theymos
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Merit: 12968
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June 18, 2019, 01:28:19 PM |
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There are a lot of use case where I can give up a little of privacy for convenience
If you're OK with that, then you can use the credit card that you already have and: - Get x% back - Use your ordinary fiat currency instead of a weird amalgamation - Have your payment accepted at pretty much every retailer on earth There's a huge market for KYC payments, but it's already filled by credit cards etc. I see zero market for Facebook's KYC cryptocurrency: it's the worst of all worlds. |
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Saint-loup
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Activity: 2604
Merit: 2353
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June 18, 2019, 01:28:59 PM |
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According to the technical White Paper there should be ways to remain "pseudonymous" Account addresses.
An account address is a 256-bit value. To create a new account, a user
first generates a fresh verification/signature key-pair (vk, sk) for a signature scheme and uses the
cryptographic hash of the public verification key vk as an account address a = H(vk).1
The new account is created in the ledger state when a transaction sent from an existing account invokes the
create_account(a) Move instruction. This typically happens when a transaction attempts to send
Libra to an account at address a that has not yet been created.
Once the new account is created at a, the user can sign transactions to be sent from that account
using the private signing key sk. The user can also rotate the key used to sign transactions from the
account without changing its address, e.g., to proactively change the key or to respond to a possible
compromise of the key.
The Libra protocol does not link accounts to a real-world identity. A user is free to create multiple
accounts by generating multiple key-pairs. Accounts controlled by the same user have no inherent
link to each other. This scheme follows the example of Bitcoin and Ethereum in that it provides
pseudonymity [19] for users.
1 Concretely we instantiate hash functions with SHA3-256 [17] and digital signatures with EdDSA using the ed-
wards25519 curve [18].https://developers.libra.org/docs/assets/papers/the-libra-blockchain.pdf |
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fillippone
Legendary
 Online
Activity: 2156
Merit: 15450
Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23
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June 18, 2019, 01:31:08 PM |
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According to the technical White Paper there should be ways to remain pseudonymous Account addresses.
An account address is a 256-bit value. To create a new account, a user
first generates a fresh verification/signature key-pair (vk, sk) for a signature scheme and uses the
cryptographic hash of the public verification key vk as an account address a = H(vk).1
The new account is created in the ledger state when a transaction sent from an existing account invokes the
create_account(a) Move instruction. This typically happens when a transaction attempts to send
Libra to an account at address a that has not yet been created.
Once the new account is created at a, the user can sign transactions to be sent from that account
using the private signing key sk. The user can also rotate the key used to sign transactions from the
account without changing its address, e.g., to proactively change the key or to respond to a possible
compromise of the key.
The Libra protocol does not link accounts to a real-world identity. A user is free to create multiple
accounts by generating multiple key-pairs. Accounts controlled by the same user have no inherent
link to each other. This scheme follows the example of Bitcoin and Ethereum in that it provides
pseudonymity [19] for users.
1 Concretely we instantiate hash functions with SHA3-256 [17] and digital signatures with EdDSA using the ed-
wards25519 curve [18].https://developers.libra.org/docs/assets/papers/the-libra-blockchain.pdfKYC is not at protocol level, but at Wallet Level: Is AML/KYC required?
Apparently not at the protocol level, but the Calibra wallet states that all users will be verified via government issued ID. It also sounds like the Calibra wallet will be the only available wallet at least for a while, so it’s unclear if developers and users can run apps on the Libra network that don’t abide by the same standards as Calibra.
Thoughts on Libra “Blockchain” by @lopp |
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Lauda
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Activity: 2674
Merit: 2965
Terminated.
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June 18, 2019, 01:32:03 PM |
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According to the technical White Paper there should be ways to remain pseudonymous Account addresses.
An account address is a 256-bit value. To create a new account, a user
first generates a fresh verification/signature key-pair (vk, sk) for a signature scheme and uses the
cryptographic hash of the public verification key vk as an account address a = H(vk).1
The new account is created in the ledger state when a transaction sent from an existing account invokes the
create_account(a) Move instruction. This typically happens when a transaction attempts to send
Libra to an account at address a that has not yet been created.
Once the new account is created at a, the user can sign transactions to be sent from that account
using the private signing key sk. The user can also rotate the key used to sign transactions from the
account without changing its address, e.g., to proactively change the key or to respond to a possible
compromise of the key.
The Libra protocol does not link accounts to a real-world identity. A user is free to create multiple
accounts by generating multiple key-pairs. Accounts controlled by the same user have no inherent
link to each other. This scheme follows the example of Bitcoin and Ethereum in that it provides
pseudonymity [19] for users.
1 Concretely we instantiate hash functions with SHA3-256 [17] and digital signatures with EdDSA using the ed-
wards25519 curve [18].https://developers.libra.org/docs/assets/papers/the-libra-blockchain.pdfKYC is not at protocol leve, but at Wallet Level: Is AML/KYC required?
Apparently not at the protocol level, but the Calibra wallet states that all users will be verified via government issued ID. It also sounds like the Calibra wallet will be the only available wallet at least for a while, so it’s unclear if developers and users can run apps on the Libra network that don’t abide by the same standards as Calibra.
https://medium.com/@lopp/thoughts-on-libra-blockchain-49b8f6c26372Right and what if all the permissioned wallets i.e. wallets that are allowed to operate have KYC? What exactly does no-KYC at protocol level bring you? Don't get conned by the whitepaper. Most average Joes will be conned into the KYC wallet by FB anyways. |
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NeuroticFish
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Activity: 3654
Merit: 6372
Looking for campaign manager? Contact icopress!
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June 18, 2019, 01:35:59 PM |
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The Libra protocol does not link accounts to a real-world identity.
Right. It links Libra accounts to FB accounts* which, if they don't have your real world identity have a great chance to get closed. So for you and me it will be "pseudo-anonymous". For the others who pay (or get around) for the data... oh well... * From what I know, they said that with Libra you'll be able to pay from FB account to FB account. |
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VB1001
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Activity: 938
Merit: 2540
<<CypherPunkCat>>
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June 18, 2019, 01:36:51 PM |
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Thoughts on Libra “Blockchain”I’m pretty sure that would be a world first of a distributed network transitioning from permissioned to permissionless. Perhaps the network as a whole can switch to PoS, but in order for the stablecoin peg / basket to be maintained, some set of entities must keep a bridge open to the traditional financial system. This will be a persistent point of centralized control via the Libra Association. https://medium.com/@lopp/thoughts-on-libra-blockchain-49b8f6c26372 Sadly, not worth the time to read that. Terrible shitcoin. I agree with you, obviously it is shit, I said it in a previous post, but there are many people who read us and we must give arguments so that they understand.  |
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fillippone
Legendary
Online
Activity: 2156
Merit: 15450
Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23
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June 18, 2019, 01:37:21 PM |
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There are a lot of use case where I can give up a little of privacy for convenience
If you're OK with that, then you can use the credit card that you already have and: - Get x% back - Use your ordinary fiat currency instead of a weird amalgamation - Have your payment accepted at pretty much every retailer on earth There's a huge market for KYC payments, but it's already filled by credit cards etc. I see zero market for Facebook's KYC cryptocurrency: it's the worst of all worlds. I cannot send Money from my credit Card to my young son, or I cannot send to an unbanked person. What i am saying is that this coin is totally different from BTC, but there are some markets (read this as : use case, not geographical markets) that aren't covered by BTC (yet). I bet in the long run BTC will wipe out all those shitty solutions: my central case is when Lightning Network will develop a smooth mobile payment solution, coupled with widespread BTC adoption (hyperbitcoinisation). Until then I am afraid we should rely on those subpar Libra- style solutions. |
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Lauda
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2674
Merit: 2965
Terminated.
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June 18, 2019, 01:39:25 PM |
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What i am saying is that this coin is totally different from BTC, but there are some markets that aren't covered by BTC (yet).
This is incorrect. BTC covers every part of the world, legal or not. For those where it is illegal, it is unlikely that this thing would be legal. Even if it becomes legal, those people will get conned by associating Libra with something that it isn't AND will get harmed once they find this our: * Sent money with dangerous description? Flagged. * Sent money to dangerous address? Flagged. * Sent money to someone we don't like? Flagged. Until then I am afraid we should rely on those subpar Libra- style solutions.
No, don't spread that or you will harm a lot of people. I agree with you, obviously it is shit, I said it in a previous post, but there are many people who read us and we must give arguments so that they understand. I needed to read one sentence to understand all the arguments against it. Heck, you need only to read 2 words to be against it: Facebook, Mastercard/Visa.  |
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fillippone
Legendary
Online
Activity: 2156
Merit: 15450
Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23
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June 18, 2019, 01:40:08 PM |
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According to the technical White Paper there should be ways to remain pseudonymous Account addresses.
An account address is a 256-bit value. To create a new account, a user
first generates a fresh verification/signature key-pair (vk, sk) for a signature scheme and uses the
cryptographic hash of the public verification key vk as an account address a = H(vk).1
The new account is created in the ledger state when a transaction sent from an existing account invokes the
create_account(a) Move instruction. This typically happens when a transaction attempts to send
Libra to an account at address a that has not yet been created.
Once the new account is created at a, the user can sign transactions to be sent from that account
using the private signing key sk. The user can also rotate the key used to sign transactions from the
account without changing its address, e.g., to proactively change the key or to respond to a possible
compromise of the key.
The Libra protocol does not link accounts to a real-world identity. A user is free to create multiple
accounts by generating multiple key-pairs. Accounts controlled by the same user have no inherent
link to each other. This scheme follows the example of Bitcoin and Ethereum in that it provides
pseudonymity [19] for users.
1 Concretely we instantiate hash functions with SHA3-256 [17] and digital signatures with EdDSA using the ed-
wards25519 curve [18].https://developers.libra.org/docs/assets/papers/the-libra-blockchain.pdfKYC is not at protocol leve, but at Wallet Level: Is AML/KYC required?
Apparently not at the protocol level, but the Calibra wallet states that all users will be verified via government issued ID. It also sounds like the Calibra wallet will be the only available wallet at least for a while, so it’s unclear if developers and users can run apps on the Libra network that don’t abide by the same standards as Calibra.
https://medium.com/@lopp/thoughts-on-libra-blockchain-49b8f6c26372Right and what if all the permissioned wallets i.e. wallets that are allowed to operate have KYC? What exactly does no-KYC at protocol level bring you? Don't get conned by the whitepaper. Most average Joes will be conned into the KYC wallet by FB anyways. Maybe my broken English made me not clear: Libra is a KYC'd solution. The KYC doesn't come from the protocol itself, but from the gateways used to access this protocol (wallets). |
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fillippone
Legendary
Online
Activity: 2156
Merit: 15450
Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23
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June 18, 2019, 01:42:44 PM |
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What i am saying is that this coin is totally different from BTC, but there are some markets that aren't covered by BTC (yet).
This is incorrect. BTC covers every part of the world, legal or not. For those where it is illegal, it is unlikely that this thing would be legal. Even if it becomes legal, those people will get conned by associating Libra with something that it isn't AND will get harmed once they find this our: * Sent money with dangerous description? Flagged. * Sent money to dangerous address? Flagged. * Sent money to someone we don't like? Flagged. When I said market I didn't mean geographical markets (they are all covered by bitcoin), but use-case. |
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Lauda
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2674
Merit: 2965
Terminated.
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June 18, 2019, 01:43:21 PM |
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Maybe my broken English made me not clear: Libra is a KYC'd solution.
The KYC doesn't come from the protocol itself, but from the gateways used to access this protocol (wallets).
Well it comes off as: Not at protocol level and thus can be bypassed. This statement would be incorrect. It's good that you clarified though. What i am saying is that this coin is totally different from BTC, but there are some markets that aren't covered by BTC (yet).
This is incorrect. BTC covers every part of the world, legal or not. For those where it is illegal, it is unlikely that this thing would be legal. Even if it becomes legal, those people will get conned by associating Libra with something that it isn't AND will get harmed once they find this our: * Sent money with dangerous description? Flagged. * Sent money to dangerous address? Flagged. * Sent money to someone we don't like? Flagged. When I said market I didn't mean geographical markets (they are all covered by bitcoin), but use-case. Such as? |
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NeuroticFish
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Activity: 3654
Merit: 6372
Looking for campaign manager? Contact icopress!
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June 18, 2019, 01:43:58 PM |
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Sadly, not worth the time to read that. Terrible shitcoin.
Great summary! And for the first time in history, (almost) everybody at bitcointalk will agree with Lauda  |
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VB1001
Legendary
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Activity: 938
Merit: 2540
<<CypherPunkCat>>
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June 18, 2019, 01:44:35 PM |
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What i am saying is that this coin is totally different from BTC, but there are some markets that aren't covered by BTC (yet).
This is incorrect. BTC covers every part of the world, legal or not. For those where it is illegal, it is unlikely that this thing would be legal. Even if it becomes legal, those people will get conned by associating Libra with something that it isn't AND will get harmed once they find this our: * Sent money with dangerous description? Flagged. * Sent money to dangerous address? Flagged. * Sent money to someone we don't like? Flagged. When I said market I didn't mean geographical markets (they are all covered by bitcoin), but use-case. Forget, nobody will pay for coffees with Bitcoin, BTC is an asset, LN is a platform that will use other currencies. |
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fillippone
Legendary
Online
Activity: 2156
Merit: 15450
Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23
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June 18, 2019, 01:45:57 PM |
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Maybe my broken English made me not clear: Libra is a KYC'd solution.
The KYC doesn't come from the protocol itself, but from the gateways used to access this protocol (wallets).
Well it comes off as: Not at protocol level and thus can be bypassed. This statement would be incorrect. It's good that you clarified though. What i am saying is that this coin is totally different from BTC, but there are some markets that aren't covered by BTC (yet).
This is incorrect. BTC covers every part of the world, legal or not. For those where it is illegal, it is unlikely that this thing would be legal. Even if it becomes legal, those people will get conned by associating Libra with something that it isn't AND will get harmed once they find this our: * Sent money with dangerous description? Flagged. * Sent money to dangerous address? Flagged. * Sent money to someone we don't like? Flagged. When I said market I didn't mean geographical markets (they are all covered by bitcoin), but use-case. Such as? As an italian, I love pizza: when I go out to eat a pizza happens I have to pay for such a pizza: I never was able to pay with Bitcoin. Or split the total bill of the pizza with my friends using Bitcoin. Only few of them owns bitcoins, but all of them own Whatsapp. This is the only one example I am going to give you: I am sure you are smart enough to extrapolate. |
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fillippone
Legendary
Online
Activity: 2156
Merit: 15450
Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23
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June 18, 2019, 01:46:56 PM |
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Sadly, not worth the time to read that. Terrible shitcoin.
Great summary! And for the first time in history, (almost) everybody at bitcointalk will agree with Lauda Theymos included, apparently! |
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Lauda
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June 18, 2019, 01:48:34 PM |
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As an italian, i love pizza: when I go out to eat a pizza happens I have to pay for such a pizza: I never was able to pay with bitcoin. Or split the total bill of such pizza with my friends in Bitcoin. Only few of them owns bitcoins, but all of them owns Whatsapp.
This is the only one example I am going to give you: I am sure you are smart enough to extrapolate.
If you are willing to sell your data/privacy in order to be able to pay for pizza with a permissioned shitcoin, excuse me but why are you here? This thing will onboard crypto-less users, who can already pay for whatever they need using traditional methods. I can't think of any mainstream use-cases where this would be the superior tool to what we have now; maybe some extreme edge-cases, but who cares about that? Sadly, not worth the time to read that. Terrible shitcoin.
Great summary! And for the first time in history, (almost) everybody at bitcointalk will agree with Lauda Theymos included, apparently! It's a rare day when I am not controversial.  |
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bitcoinPsycho
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$120000 in 2024 Confirmed
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June 18, 2019, 01:49:45 PM |
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As an italian, i love pizza: when I go out to eat a pizza happens I have to pay for such a pizza: I never was able to pay with bitcoin. Or split the total bill of such pizza with my friends in Bitcoin. Only few of them owns bitcoins, but all of them owns Whatsapp.
This is the only one example I am going to give you: I am sure you are smart enough to extrapolate.
If you are willing to sell your data/privacy in order to be able to pay for pizza with a permissioned shitcoin, excuse me but why are you here? This thing will onboard crypto-less users, who can already pay for whatever they need using traditional methods. I believe roach and gembitz are on board |
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NeuroticFish
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June 18, 2019, 01:51:23 PM |
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As an italian, i love pizza: when I go out to eat a pizza happens I have to pay for such a pizza: I never was able to pay with bitcoin.
In Europe it's not as widely spread as in the States. Give it a little more time. LN could make the things easy and fast; if not other companies enter the BTC payment processing field too. Or split the total bill of such pizza with my friends in Bitcoin. Only few of them owns bitcoins, but all of them owns Whatsapp.
Are you sure they'll keep money locked in the app? Are you sure that coin will pay for the pizza? Are you sure your expectations are not too big, too fast? |
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Lauda
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Activity: 2674
Merit: 2965
Terminated.
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June 18, 2019, 01:58:08 PM |
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I believe roach and gembitz are on board
Backed by garbage metals maybe?
To add fuel to this fire, even their Github description is dishonest:  https://github.com/libra/libra |
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machasm
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June 18, 2019, 02:05:19 PM |
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I believe roach and gembitz are on board
Backed by garbage metals maybe?
To add fuel to this fire, even their Github description is dishonest: https://github.com/libra/libraI guess it depends on their description of decentralised. If they mean that the ledger is spread over two servers then I am sure it's not centralised /s |
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