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Question: 8/16 Closing Price (yeah, it's a Sunday):
0 - 1 (2%)
<$10,500 - 3 (6.1%)
$10,500-$11,000 - 1 (2%)
$11,001-$11,500 - 5 (10.2%)
$11,501-$12,000 - 11 (22.4%)
$12,000-$12,500 - 16 (32.7%)
>$12,500 - 10 (20.4%)
>$20,000 - 2 (4.1%)
Total Voters: 49

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 21821330 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (148 posts by 37 users deleted.)
kenzawak
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June 03, 2019, 02:39:34 PM


 Lol   ...and your chauffeur is takin the picture?

I suspect he's the one who stole the bike's wheel, he got tired of driving my fat ass (is that the right expression here ? Hmmm...)
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fillippone
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June 03, 2019, 02:40:40 PM

Oh, look.
at last Elwar and Nadia hit the mainstream italian press:

https://www.corriere.it/economia/consumi/19_giugno_02/sfida-furbetta-seasteaders-prendere-residenza-mare-non-pagare-tasse-ca8024b4-850c-11e9-a4c5-122bac19b17d.shtml
(think you can google translate it)


Sadly, the ignorant italian journalist ignores herself we had in Italy one of the first Seadsters experiment in the 60's:


^^Rose Island 1968 circa.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Rose_Island
https://www.visit-rimini.com/when-italy-went-to-war-with-the-esperanto-micro-nation-insulo-de-la-rozoj/


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June 03, 2019, 02:47:02 PM

Oh, look.
at last Elwar and Nadia hit the mainstream italian press:

https://www.corriere.it/economia/consumi/19_giugno_02/sfida-furbetta-seasteaders-prendere-residenza-mare-non-pagare-tasse-ca8024b4-850c-11e9-a4c5-122bac19b17d.shtml
(think you can google translate it)


Sadly, the ignorant italian journalist ignores herself we had in Italy one of the first Seadsters experiment in the 60's:


^^Rose Island 1968 circa.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Rose_Island
https://www.visit-rimini.com/when-italy-went-to-war-with-the-esperanto-micro-nation-insulo-de-la-rozoj/




I googled. Still says the couple is on the run. Are they still on the run? Or have they been arrested yet? Hope they got out of Thailand and all is ok.
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June 03, 2019, 02:56:53 PM



If this little soiree is going to cost 400 fucking grand ...



Each?

A few seem to have settled on 10 grand a piece and 40 people. No idea why and it Weren't me. No, sir.


There was no settling and really the idea of charging a entrance fee is ludicrous. This is just low brow flights of fancy.

I think what we should really do is look into a pay per view type extravaganza with obstacle courses and medical teams on standby. I am sure the whole cost could be defrayed and the rest sent to a good charity.

Or more germane, we'll all talk some about investing in Bitcoin. Which will make the trip tax-deductible.

Lotta savvy biz knowledge to be shared amongst the tycoons of industry known as the WO regulars.

You raise a good point. Presumably, by the time we reach $100K or thereabouts, many more people here will be financially independent. A WO meetup would be a great place to talk with like minded people about potential startups, etc.
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June 03, 2019, 03:01:06 PM



If this little soiree is going to cost 400 fucking grand ...



Each?

A few seem to have settled on 10 grand a piece and 40 people. No idea why and it Weren't me. No, sir.


There was no settling and really the idea of charging a entrance fee is ludicrous. This is just low brow flights of fancy.

I think what we should really do is look into a pay per view type extravaganza with obstacle courses and medical teams on standby. I am sure the whole cost could be defrayed and the rest sent to a good charity.

Or more germane, we'll all talk some about investing in Bitcoin. Which will make the trip tax-deductible.

Lotta savvy biz knowledge to be shared amongst the tycoons of industry known as the WO regulars.

You raise a good point. Presumably, by the time we reach $100K or thereabouts, many more people here will be financially independent. A WO meetup would be a great place to talk with like minded people about potential startups, etc.
Alternatively, shutdowns. Segwit, lightning, and all the politics around it, it's a bad thing. Anything shifts to the left over time, and bitcoin is not going to be the first exception. At some point it will be time to hedge the other way.
fillippone
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June 03, 2019, 03:05:37 PM

Oh, look.
at last Elwar and Nadia hit the mainstream italian press:

https://www.corriere.it/economia/consumi/19_giugno_02/sfida-furbetta-seasteaders-prendere-residenza-mare-non-pagare-tasse-ca8024b4-850c-11e9-a4c5-122bac19b17d.shtml
(think you can google translate it)


Sadly, the ignorant italian journalist ignores herself we had in Italy one of the first Seadsters experiment in the 60's:


^^Rose Island 1968 circa.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Rose_Island
https://www.visit-rimini.com/when-italy-went-to-war-with-the-esperanto-micro-nation-insulo-de-la-rozoj/




I googled. Still says the couple is on the run. Are they still on the run? Or have they been arrested yet? Hope they got out of Thailand and all is ok.

As far as I know they are still on the run.
What pisses me off is instead is the cheap reporting on the story: they focused only on the fact they wanted to avoid taxation, notingh else, no context, no reasoning.
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June 03, 2019, 03:13:35 PM
Last edit: June 03, 2019, 03:26:06 PM by infofront

Afaik transaction malleability breaks LN.  So Segwit is necessary for LN as it fixes transaction malleability.  Also BIP 114 for MAST requires Segwit.

I think that the malleability bug is separate from the segwit. I think segwit required the fix in order to work. So segwit in on itself is not required for LN.
This is an important difference if true. Can anyone confirm/deny?

Segwit was one of multiple potential transaction malleability fixes, but it was often billed as the fix. Take a look at Bcash. They fixed transaction malleability without segwit.

It's basically the same thing with LN. Segwit made bitcoin capable of handling LN, but there were other ways to implement lightning without segwit.


you don't want those coffee purchases clogging up the main chain.
Yes I do. I specifically want coffee purchases clogging up the main chain, in fact. And anything else people care to use it on.

That is the entire point of bitcoin. Anyone can send any amount to anywhere at any time without needing the permission of middlemen such as yourself.

Bitcoin was not meant to be a transactional currency. It was meant to be a store of value. Read: https://twitter.com/danheld/status/1084848063947071488

Any other use case, such as buying coffee, is outside the scope of Bitcoin's core use case. That's basically why we'll need 2nd layer solutions (or altcoins) for buying coffee.
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June 03, 2019, 03:23:24 PM

You took your sweet time because it took nearly a year to hit 0.066

I was underwater for a bit, 'tis true. Irrelevant. I'm in for the long haul.

Though truth be told, nobody much tried to use the price to hurt my feelings in several weeks. Not like it would accomplish anything anyhow.

Cheers!
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June 03, 2019, 03:24:19 PM
Merited by sirazimuth (1), kenzawak (1)

"If China is telling the truth when it says 'China does not want a trade war, but it is not afraid of one and it will fight one if necessary,' we are in for a long, painful time of uncertainty.

This is incredibly bullish for bitcoin."

https://twitter.com/srussolillo/status/1135527551474884608?s=21

Eh, just till we get the moron out of office. I'm actually quite impressed though: He has not pissed on the Queen's shoes which means the UK trip is exceeding my expectations....
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June 03, 2019, 03:25:29 PM

Edit:  no need to take my word for it.  This is what Andreas says:



You seem to be confusing SegWit with the other cruft bundled into The SegWit Omnibus Changeset.
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June 03, 2019, 03:29:07 PM

For those who love to discuss Satoshi's identity and different theory

Quote
Paul Solotshi Calder Le Roux, a 46-year old criminal mastermind, is the creator of encryption software E4M and TrueCrypt (the cryptography encryption software Satoshi Nakamoto likely used to lock up his 1 million BTC), and author of an uncannily similar manifesto to the one in Bitcoin’s whitepaper in 1998.

But that’s not all: Paul Solotshi Calder Le Roux employs similar spelling and language in his writing style to that of Satoshi. He’s interested in gambling (Bitcoin’s initial code had a poker client included), and what’s more, he’s been in jail since 2012 – that’s probably the reason why his 1 million Bitcoin hasn’t moved


do you even read the thread?
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June 03, 2019, 03:30:45 PM


On a side note, I think Kenzawak and my path could cross sooner. The only drawback I can think of is I travel as a bag packer, and he's a slightly fancy traveler. Cheesy

I'm not that fancy trust me.
That's my ride :




You ride fixed or freewheel?  Pedals make me think fixed.
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June 03, 2019, 03:31:33 PM

The problem with metals, besides that I can't buy a jug of milk with it, is that tyrannical states can and will just take it. Metals are for the rebuilding phase, not the purge phase. And bitcoin is for getting a safe distance while it all blows over.

Get off the drugs.  It's far easier for the state to make Bitcoin unusable than metals.  And confiscating metals is even less feasible than confiscating guns.  Even Shlomo Nakamoto says Bitcoin is useless vs state actors.
Then you don't understand the tech, or politics, or both. Bitcoin is global. Somewhere is going to be fine with it, even if your local corner of the world ain't. And if you are not willing to leave a soviet-level state, then that's entirely on you.

Because it's so useful if the G7 or G20 banned Bitcoin but someone in North Korea has a 486 with the magical ledger of imaginary, valueless tokens on it!  The state can easily destroy and prevent the use of Bitcoin because running a police state in the digital world is cheap and cost effective (see Facebook, Twitter, the nation of China) while running a police state in the physical world requires orders of magnitude more resources.  Pretending it's harder to stop Bitcoin than metals is a flat out lie.  They require the govt's own infrastructure to even work at all.

Martin Armstrong has been talking for years about people getting harassed for transporting precious metals across international borders, or having the PMs confiscated.

PMs are almost completely useless, aside from international settlements and reserve holdings.

Edit: Open your eyes - we're not heading toward a more open world. Governments around the world are starving for money, and putting tighter restrictions on moving money internationally.
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June 03, 2019, 03:33:58 PM

The problem with metals, besides that I can't buy a jug of milk with it, is that tyrannical states can and will just take it. Metals are for the rebuilding phase, not the purge phase. And bitcoin is for getting a safe distance while it all blows over.

Get off the drugs.  It's far easier for the state to make Bitcoin unusable than metals.  And confiscating metals is even less feasible than confiscating guns.  Even Shlomo Nakamoto says Bitcoin is useless vs state actors.
Then you don't understand the tech, or politics, or both. Bitcoin is global. Somewhere is going to be fine with it, even if your local corner of the world ain't. And if you are not willing to leave a soviet-level state, then that's entirely on you.

Because it's so useful if the G7 or G20 banned Bitcoin but someone in North Korea has a 486 with the magical ledger of imaginary, valueless tokens on it!  The state can easily destroy and prevent the use of Bitcoin because running a police state in the digital world is cheap and cost effective (see Facebook, Twitter, the nation of China) while running a police state in the physical world requires orders of magnitude more resources.  Pretending it's harder to stop Bitcoin than metals is a flat out lie.  They require the govt's own infrastructure to even work at all.

Martin Armstrong has been talking for years about people getting harassed for transporting precious metals across international borders, or having the PMs confiscated.

PMs are almost completely useless, aside from international settlements and reserve holdings.

Agreed, it is a dumb cult...
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June 03, 2019, 03:36:52 PM

And what is the practical use of LN? Why is LN "necessary"? And what even is MAST?

Personally I think the jury is still out on LN.  I think there will be a wave of competing second layer solutions of which LN, RSK and Liquid are just the start.  

But decentralised instant Bitcoin transfers are pretty handy.  Particularly because you don't want those coffee purchases clogging up the main chain.

As for MAST - Bitcoin already uses merkle trees.  A block is just a collection of transactions in a merkle tree format.  MAST is a twist on the idea:  Merklized Abstract Syntax Trees.  Basically MAST allows for complex scripts to be appended to the Bitcoin blockchain with just a tiny proof recorded on the blockchain, so the vast majority of the script sits offchain, creating the ability to create Bitcoin smart contracts which are largely offchain.  And because they are off-chain, they are private.      

Well, they're not private because they are offchain. They are private because the only part exposed to the public is the merkle hash. Of course, to activate them, one must reveal the script corresponding to the hash. So no longer private. Yes, multiple separate scripts can be bound up in the single MAST hash, and only the redeemed script requires revealing. But any operative one does. And of course the fact that the script is not onchain means that script management is the responsibility of anyone who might want to redeem a script bound up in that MAST. Yes, that's not really conceptually much different from key management. But still a non-trivial issue.

Most importantly: not currently a part of BTC. Standard disclaimers apply.
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June 03, 2019, 03:43:50 PM

For those who love to discuss Satoshi's identity and different theory

Quote
Paul Solotshi Calder Le Roux, a 46-year old criminal mastermind, is the creator of encryption software E4M and TrueCrypt (the cryptography encryption software Satoshi Nakamoto likely used to lock up his 1 million BTC), and author of an uncannily similar manifesto to the one in Bitcoin’s whitepaper in 1998.

But that’s not all: Paul Solotshi Calder Le Roux employs similar spelling and language in his writing style to that of Satoshi. He’s interested in gambling (Bitcoin’s initial code had a poker client included), and what’s more, he’s been in jail since 2012 – that’s probably the reason why his 1 million Bitcoin hasn’t moved


do you even read the thread?

Yup, did I missed something?
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June 03, 2019, 03:51:41 PM

The problem with metals, besides that I can't buy a jug of milk with it, is that tyrannical states can and will just take it. Metals are for the rebuilding phase, not the purge phase. And bitcoin is for getting a safe distance while it all blows over.

Get off the drugs.  It's far easier for the state to make Bitcoin unusable than metals.  And confiscating metals is even less feasible than confiscating guns.  Even Shlomo Nakamoto says Bitcoin is useless vs state actors.
Then you don't understand the tech, or politics, or both. Bitcoin is global. Somewhere is going to be fine with it, even if your local corner of the world ain't. And if you are not willing to leave a soviet-level state, then that's entirely on you.

Because it's so useful if the G7 or G20 banned Bitcoin but someone in North Korea has a 486 with the magical ledger of imaginary, valueless tokens on it!  The state can easily destroy and prevent the use of Bitcoin because running a police state in the digital world is cheap and cost effective (see Facebook, Twitter, the nation of China) while running a police state in the physical world requires orders of magnitude more resources.  Pretending it's harder to stop Bitcoin than metals is a flat out lie.  They require the govt's own infrastructure to even work at all.

Martin Armstrong has been talking for years about people getting harassed for transporting precious metals across international borders, or having the PMs confiscated.

PMs are almost completely useless, aside from international settlements and reserve holdings.

Edit: Open your eyes - we're not heading toward a more open world. Governments around the world are starving for money, and putting tighter restrictions on moving money internationally.
I'm going to take a silver coin on my next trip (in 2-3 months time probably). If it causes any problems whatsoever I will report all the details here. Consider it a public service.
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June 03, 2019, 04:13:09 PM

Afaik transaction malleability breaks LN.  So Segwit is necessary for LN as it fixes transaction malleability.  Also BIP 114 for MAST requires Segwit.
I think that the malleability bug is separate from the segwit. I think segwit required the fix in order to work. So segwit in on itself is not required for LN.
This is an important difference if true. Can anyone confirm/deny?

Segwit is ABSOLUTELY needed for LN to work.

In current implementation, sure. But conceptually, no. Don't take my word for it - gmax said so XD. 'Something like LN' is simplified by a malleability fix. But not utterly dependent upon. And segwit is but one of many possible malleability fixes.
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June 03, 2019, 04:17:08 PM

The problem with metals, besides that I can't buy a jug of milk with it, is that tyrannical states can and will just take it. Metals are for the rebuilding phase, not the purge phase. And bitcoin is for getting a safe distance while it all blows over.

Get off the drugs.  It's far easier for the state to make Bitcoin unusable than metals.  And confiscating metals is even less feasible than confiscating guns.  Even Shlomo Nakamoto says Bitcoin is useless vs state actors.
Then you don't understand the tech, or politics, or both. Bitcoin is global. Somewhere is going to be fine with it, even if your local corner of the world ain't. And if you are not willing to leave a soviet-level state, then that's entirely on you.

Because it's so useful if the G7 or G20 banned Bitcoin but someone in North Korea has a 486 with the magical ledger of imaginary, valueless tokens on it!  The state can easily destroy and prevent the use of Bitcoin because running a police state in the digital world is cheap and cost effective (see Facebook, Twitter, the nation of China) while running a police state in the physical world requires orders of magnitude more resources.  Pretending it's harder to stop Bitcoin than metals is a flat out lie.  They require the govt's own infrastructure to even work at all.

Martin Armstrong has been talking for years about people getting harassed for transporting precious metals across international borders, or having the PMs confiscated.

PMs are almost completely useless, aside from international settlements and reserve holdings.

Edit: Open your eyes - we're not heading toward a more open world. Governments around the world are starving for money, and putting tighter restrictions on moving money internationally.
I'm going to take a silver coin on my next trip (in 2-3 months time probably). If it causes any problems whatsoever I will report all the details here. Consider it a public service.

I used to always have a 1oz gold eagle in my pocket. Out for a bite ... off to work ... air travel, whatever. I gave up the practice some years ago.

In theory, should not be a problem. US CBP does not admit to caring about anything under $10,000. Would take a rather large-ish silver coin to get to that limit. Then again, why tempt fate?
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June 03, 2019, 04:46:00 PM

About the 100k party, I really would like for it to happen, but we need to plan it in time, the reason because nobody was able to organize a proper party at 1k or 10k was the price going faster than anyone's planning ability, and this time will be no exception.

I think that a strict opsec would not be so necessary in any EU country (well maybe excluding east europe and UK, for different reasons). Also I was not imagining a bilderberg meeting but something more like a real party, with at least an hundred people (40 people means 20+ friend/gf) and a "normal" security service.

About the price even 0.01 btc/ticket (1k usd) would mean an hell of  a party,  maybe even 2/3k could be ok too, but 10k would be only a waste of coins. Not to mention I will not be retired even at 100k because reasons, and I think I'm not the only one.

Who is in party organizing? I could have some friends but they are nocoiners, and they would be very skeptical about organizing an epic event they think will never happen (even with coins in escrow ready to be sold).

My real concern is not that bitcoin will never reach 100k, but that nobody will be able to organize a proper party before that!
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