Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[creekbore]

Billy? Billy?  Anyone...please

if you are gonna buy long term hold is there any reason you'd not want to buy from mtgox being 150 bucks less...ie you have no worries about cashing out
and/or getting btc out at this time...

I mean at 150 bucks less a coin and you intend to ride this out till jan and beyond as a hold strategy

whats the diff? is there a down side?

besides waiting a month or two to get btc out maybe?

noob question here sorry

at least on trading I'm a noob

Searing

Thanks Searing, that really clears it up for me. 

Jorge, you're the voice of sanity here...who's the Billy cashing out?

[TERA]

I'm tired of this bullstamp. where is bearstamp.

We've been going down for 2 months. At what point is it enough for you? When all the investors left and nobody is will to buy coins anymore? That good enough for you? Will that make you happy? Cheap coins right?

I see 2 weeks, not 2 months.

I NEVER get an answer to these questions. So when is it enough for you people? When we're at 1200 you guys scream down down down! At 800 the same. At 350. What's the point? What do you want? When is it enough?

400, or when i see a nice solid base form and not just this random $200 candle to the moon.

[billyjoeallen]

What would it take for you to admit you're wrong about Bitcoin, Jorge? What set of conditions? What would have to happen?

For starters, bitcoiners would have to find a way to get rid of all altcoins, present and future. Including AppleCoin, WellsFargoCoin, WalmartCoin, ...

Perhaps they can find corrupt congressmen that will accept bribes in bitcoin and pass laws criminalizing the use of other coins? 

LOL. So we would have to prevent something that doesn't exist yet? How do you know we haven't already done the through the magic of "market incentives"? If those corpcoins were truly decentralized, distributed and peer-to-peer, they would convey no advantage.  To the extent they would convey advantage, they would be to that extent less popular. Which may be why you don't see any.

So I would have to wait an infinite amount of time for you to admit you were wrong?

As for present alt-coins, why do they make you doubt Bitcoin? Success always has imitators.

[Mythul]

Mt.Gox will fix the bug but still won't allow BTC withdraws. I mean people were begging them to just say that they have the coins, but they didn't.

[billyjoeallen]

I'm tired of this bullstamp. where is bearstamp.

We've been going down for 2 months. At what point is it enough for you? When all the investors left and nobody is will to buy coins anymore? That good enough for you? Will that make you happy? Cheap coins right?

I see 2 weeks, not 2 months.

I NEVER get an answer to these questions. So when is it enough for you people? When we're at 1200 you guys scream down down down! At 800 the same. At 350. What's the point? What do you want? When is it enough?

400, or when i see a nice solid base form and not just this random $200 candle to the moon.

How could you tell the difference between a nice, solid base and the apparently nice solid base we had at $800?
That last candle wasn't random. I have almost no TA knowledge or experience and I could see it a mile off.

[Mythul]

Ok so who thinks that on Monday Mt.Gox will announce that they were hacked and need additional time ? I've read their statement and in no way did they say "We have the coins guys, chill." They deserve to go down because either they don't have the coins or they try to manipulate the market to make a profit. Just WOW, such machiavellian exchange.

[Searing]

Billy? Billy?  Anyone...please

if you are gonna buy long term hold is there any reason you'd not want to buy from mtgox being 150 bucks less...ie you have no worries about cashing out
and/or getting btc out at this time...

I mean at 150 bucks less a coin and you intend to ride this out till jan and beyond as a hold strategy

whats the diff? is there a down side?

besides waiting a month or two to get btc out maybe?

noob question here sorry

at least on trading I'm a noob

Searing

Thanks Searing, that really clears it up for me. 

Jorge, you're the voice of sanity here...who's the Billy cashing out?

well reading the post or two above here....they say mtgox keeps the coins and folks can't get them out....er i mean how long>?

it it is a couple months no biggie...

if they are so mucked up it is 9 months or some such the exhange itself will go under imho

how mucked up is gox and how likely is it to go belly up vs just mucking along like it has been in the past dribbling out your btc ?

curious..if no one has a clue well thats an answer too i guess

Searing

[TERA]

I'm tired of this bullstamp. where is bearstamp.

We've been going down for 2 months. At what point is it enough for you? When all the investors left and nobody is will to buy coins anymore? That good enough for you? Will that make you happy? Cheap coins right?

I see 2 weeks, not 2 months.

I NEVER get an answer to these questions. So when is it enough for you people? When we're at 1200 you guys scream down down down! At 800 the same. At 350. What's the point? What do you want? When is it enough?

400, or when i see a nice solid base form and not just this random $200 candle to the moon.

How could you tell the difference between a nice, solid base and the apparently nice solid base we had at $800?
That last candle wasn't random. I have almost no TA knowledge or experience and I could see it a mile off.

800?? LOL. there was no volume around that level. it was a mere 33% below ath, nowhere near any known trend line, and way to early for a.reversal. a joke, for noobs.

yes it was easy to see the spike coming because we were way oversold and news came out. that doesn't mean this is bottom. in june, someone bought up all the coins from 95 to 115 with one 20k buy order.

the bottom is when the price smashes against a certain level for a good amount of time and there's an unlimited amount of support until it starts slowly creeping up. Like gox did at 300, and then there's multiple additional high volume tests and they are all supported at gradually increasingly higher levels, until an explosion happens. a huge vertical wall of support continues to build behind the action as a new base.

[ShroomsKit]

Ok so who thinks that on Monday Mt.Gox will announce that they were hacked and need additional time ? I've read their statement and in no way did they say "We have the coins guys, chill." They deserve to go down because either they don't have the coins or they try to manipulate the market to make a profit. Just WOW, such machiavellian exchange.

It's 100% clear they're playing a dirty game. What and how i don't know but you can be sure someone benefits from it.

[F-bernanke]

Ok so who thinks that on Monday Mt.Gox will announce that they were hacked and need additional time ? I've read their statement and in no way did they say "We have the coins guys, chill." They deserve to go down because either they don't have the coins or they try to manipulate the market to make a profit. Just WOW, such machiavellian exchange.

+1,

Nobody cares about the technical issues, everybody wants to know if they are solvent...

[ShroomsKit]

I'm tired of this bullstamp. where is bearstamp.

We've been going down for 2 months. At what point is it enough for you? When all the investors left and nobody is will to buy coins anymore? That good enough for you? Will that make you happy? Cheap coins right?

I see 2 weeks, not 2 months.

I NEVER get an answer to these questions. So when is it enough for you people? When we're at 1200 you guys scream down down down! At 800 the same. At 350. What's the point? What do you want? When is it enough?

400, or when i see a nice solid base form and not just this random $200 candle to the moon.

So at 400 you're gonna buy a shitload of coins? Wait for 600 and then post all day we must go down again? Is that how being a bear works?

[TERA]

I'm tired of this bullstamp. where is bearstamp.

We've been going down for 2 months. At what point is it enough for you? When all the investors left and nobody is will to buy coins anymore? That good enough for you? Will that make you happy? Cheap coins right?

I see 2 weeks, not 2 months.

I NEVER get an answer to these questions. So when is it enough for you people? When we're at 1200 you guys scream down down down! At 800 the same. At 350. What's the point? What do you want? When is it enough?

400, or when i see a nice solid base form and not just this random $200 candle to the moon.

So at 400 you're gonna buy a shitload of coins? Wait for 600 and then post all day we must go down again? Is that how being a bear works?

once i get my buy and ta confirms that a new rally is starting, i will probably move to cold storage and take a break from the forum for a while.

[flynn]

once i get my buy and ta confirms that a new rally is starting, i will probably move to cold storage and take a break from the forum for a while.

Oh ! That would make two good news at a time.

[F-bernanke]

What's going on at BTC-e? some bots having fun micro trading?

[ShroomsKit]

I'm tired of this bullstamp. where is bearstamp.

We've been going down for 2 months. At what point is it enough for you? When all the investors left and nobody is will to buy coins anymore? That good enough for you? Will that make you happy? Cheap coins right?

I see 2 weeks, not 2 months.

I NEVER get an answer to these questions. So when is it enough for you people? When we're at 1200 you guys scream down down down! At 800 the same. At 350. What's the point? What do you want? When is it enough?

400, or when i see a nice solid base form and not just this random $200 candle to the moon.

So at 400 you're gonna buy a shitload of coins? Wait for 600 and then post all day we must go down again? Is that how being a bear works?

once i get my buy and ta confirms that a new rally is starting, i will probably move to cold storage and take a break from the forum for a while.

Great

[billyjoeallen]

the bottom is when the price smashes against a certain level for a good amount of time and there's an unlimited amount of support until it starts slowly creeping up. Like gox did at 300, and then there's multiple additional high volume tests and they are all supported at gradually increasingly higher levels, until an explosion happens. a huge vertical wall of support continues to build behind the action as a new base.

So how long is a "good amount of time" and what do you mean by "unlimited support"? We've smashed into the ~$530 level twice now (stamp), the second time with a lot more volume. Are you saying that can't be the floor or is it just too soon to tell in your opinion?

[JorgeStolfi]

If those corpcoins were truly decentralized, distributed and peer-to-peer, they would convey no advantage.

They would not be decentralized and disitributed.

The corporations would provide the blockchain processing and hold large stocks (maybe even infinite) of coins, using them to maintain price stability etc., and will collect fees from their use. Those corpcoins will look superficially like bitcoin in the way people will use them, but of course will not be anything like the libertarian dream.  For 99.9% of the population, that will not matter.

Or they could be issued by governments instead of corporations.

Or they could be something else entirely, who knows what governments, banks and stores may invent.

As for present alt-coins, why do they make you doubt Bitcoin? Success always has imitators.

Because they void the argument "one bitcoin will be worth a small fortune one day since there are only 21 million of them and umpteen trillion dollars of e-commerce per day".

There are many things wrong with that argument, but one of them is that there is an infinite number of cryptocoins, and they all are in principle as good as bitcoin for the purpose of low-fee payments via internet.

Umpteen trillion dollars divided by infinity is equal to zero...

So I would have to wait an infinite amount of time for you to admit you were wrong?

I will admit that I am wrong (about bitcoin being a terrible investment) when lots of people really start using bitcoins for payments, not because they want to support the cause but because they are more convenient and cheap than other methods; and demand for that usage becomes large enough to justify the current BTC price, and the yearly growth of that price is greater than that of the ROI of other investments.

And I would be very happy if only the first of these three condition becomes true (although I am pessimistic even about that).

As I see it, right now the bitcoin price is sustained mainly by speculation: by "hodlers" who will buy at even higher price if they had the money, by day traders who do not look beyond the next month or two, and by people who see it as a form of gambling.

[xulescu]

According to Wisdom, there are some shenanigans going on at Gox. A few hours ago a dump was marked as a 200 BTC order in the order history but only showed up as a 155 BTC sell on the volume indicator. Also, are the orderbooks on Wisdom accurate? I might be seeing things but it seems to me that there are "phantom orders" that show up in the books but that don't get counted when a dump eats them.

Billy cashed out around 10k BTC during the last downtrend and doesn't seem to be out of coins.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[creekbore]

According to Wisdom, there are some shenanigans going on at Gox. A few hours ago a dump was marked as a 200 BTC order in the order history but only showed up as a 155 BTC sell on the volume indicator. Also, are the orderbooks on Wisdom accurate? I might be seeing things but it seems to me that there are "phantom orders" that show up in the books but that don't get counted when a dump eats them.

Billy cashed out around 10k BTC during the last downtrend and doesn't seem to be out of coins.

Billy???