Bitcoin Forum
January 19, 2020, 05:30:34 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 0.19.0.1 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Poll
Question: Jan. 17 Closing Price:
$0 - 3 (2.7%)
<$6500 - 5 (4.5%)
$6,500-$7,000 - 6 (5.4%)
$7,000-$7,500 - 8 (7.2%)
$7,500-$8,000 - 16 (14.4%)
$8,000-$8,500 - 25 (22.5%)
$8,500-$9,000 - 10 (9%)
$9,000-$9,500 - 15 (13.5%)
>$9,500 - 23 (20.7%)
Total Voters: 111

Pages: « 1 ... 24646 24647 24648 24649 24650 24651 24652 24653 24654 24655 24656 24657 24658 24659 24660 24661 24662 24663 24664 24665 24666 24667 24668 24669 24670 24671 24672 24673 24674 24675 24676 24677 24678 24679 24680 24681 24682 24683 24684 24685 24686 24687 24688 24689 24690 24691 24692 24693 24694 24695 [24696] 24697 24698 24699 24700 24701 24702 24703 24704 24705 24706 24707 24708 24709 24710 24711 24712 24713 24714 24715 24716 24717 24718 24719 24720 24721 24722 24723 24724 24725 24726 24727 24728 24729 24730 24731 24732 24733 24734 24735 24736 24737 24738 24739 24740 24741 24742 24743 24744 24745 24746 ... 25860 »
  Print  
Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 21495742 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (138 posts by 32 users deleted.)
HairyMaclairy
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1064
Merit: 1734


Degenerate bull hatter & Bitcoin monotheist


View Profile
August 04, 2019, 11:10:56 AM

wow, this forum has gone downhill! no mods nowadays or what?

You are a fucking diptwat.

Last I heard from you was that you sold all your coins in the $600s in the 2014 time frame, and you were living happily ever after because bitcoin was going to go to zero (for sure).. and you knew it and you were smarter than the rest of us... blah blah blah.  You said a bunch of other dumbshit too, including that you weren't going to be coming back, except to tell us how dumb we were and to rub bitcoin in our face, yet for some strange reason bitocin is far exceeding 16x from the prices that you sold...

I can't imagine that you are actually smart about something, and I imagine you are coming back to tell us how wonderful your life is because you cashed out dollars

TLDR:  So what the fuck would you know about either bitcoin or this forum?

If thats so Then “insert Will ferrell gif.... what a loser”

He probably listen to r0ach same-ish price cash out Cheesy

I have not been active on Bitcointalk for a long time and in this part of the forum in ages, but I am surprised about the amount of bigotry that is going on (including r0ach posts, where are the mods?).

I have bought most of my Bitcoins in the single and double digits, I kept selling when the MA crossovers happened (bubbles popping) and buying back whenever everyone is calling dooms.

I also switched my focus from being all-in Bitcoin to investing in privacy-focused coins (Monero in 2015-2017 and Mimblewimble coins, mostly Beam now).


If you sold at the MA death cross off the 2017 peak you would have sold at sub $10k.  

Beam is a joke, although “centralized privacy coin” does make for a good punch line
1579411834
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1579411834

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1579411834
Reply with quote  #2

1579411834
Report to moderator
1579411834
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1579411834

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1579411834
Reply with quote  #2

1579411834
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1579411834
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1579411834

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1579411834
Reply with quote  #2

1579411834
Report to moderator
1579411834
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1579411834

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1579411834
Reply with quote  #2

1579411834
Report to moderator
mmitech
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1134
Merit: 1001


things you own end up owning you


View Profile
August 04, 2019, 11:33:05 AM

wow, this forum has gone downhill! no mods nowadays or what?

You are a fucking diptwat.

Last I heard from you was that you sold all your coins in the $600s in the 2014 time frame, and you were living happily ever after because bitcoin was going to go to zero (for sure).. and you knew it and you were smarter than the rest of us... blah blah blah.  You said a bunch of other dumbshit too, including that you weren't going to be coming back, except to tell us how dumb we were and to rub bitcoin in our face, yet for some strange reason bitocin is far exceeding 16x from the prices that you sold...

I can't imagine that you are actually smart about something, and I imagine you are coming back to tell us how wonderful your life is because you cashed out dollars

TLDR:  So what the fuck would you know about either bitcoin or this forum?

If thats so Then “insert Will ferrell gif.... what a loser”

He probably listen to r0ach same-ish price cash out Cheesy

I have not been active on Bitcointalk for a long time and in this part of the forum in ages, but I am surprised about the amount of bigotry that is going on (including r0ach posts, where are the mods?).

I have bought most of my Bitcoins in the single and double digits, I kept selling when the MA crossovers happened (bubbles popping) and buying back whenever everyone is calling dooms.

I also switched my focus from being all-in Bitcoin to investing in privacy-focused coins (Monero in 2015-2017 and Mimblewimble coins, mostly Beam now).


If you sold at the MA death cross off the 2017 peak you would have sold at sub $10k.  

Beam is a joke, although “centralized privacy coin” does make for a good punch line

I sold most around $9K bought back with some of my stash around $4500, Also why do you think beam is a joke? provide an argument, but I will feel free to tell you what Beam has done better than Bitcoin (in fact Bitcoin will be never able to do this):

- it offers the best privacy out there by using the mimblewimble protocol (written from scratch).
- it has improved on the vanilla MW implementation by adding the use of decoy outputs in the Dandelion stem phase. Those decoy outputs are later being spent forward by the nodes, so no permanent clutter on the blockchain.
- It uses the cut-through tech so the whole blockchain will always be small enough to sync even on mobile devices because The cut-through removes all the intermediate states of UTXOs, essentially leaving only unspent outputs on the blockchain.
- it uses fly client which is the first privacy coin to do so
- it scales orders of magnitude better than Bitcoin or Monero or Zcash on layer1 and the implementation of layer2 doesn't expose you since both layers are anonymous.
- it has the best UX compared to any privacy coin out there
- Better coin distribution for the first year and a half by planning 2 hard forks to change the PoW to make it ASIC resilient at the early stage.
- Since in privacy coins, inflation is something that can't be easily detected, in Beam audibility is easier since no funds are created of thin air simply because the number of inputs and outputs should always cancel out due to the cut-through feature.

I will pause here and wait for you to explain why is Beam a joke.
HairyMaclairy
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1064
Merit: 1734


Degenerate bull hatter & Bitcoin monotheist


View Profile
August 04, 2019, 11:38:39 AM
Merited by mindrust (2)

1.  It has a massive target in the form of a centralized dev team - same as Ethereum.   This is a very easy target for governments to crack.  

2. Network effect is close to zero

3.  The dev penalty is widely known and contrary to cypherpunk principles. Hence no buyers of last resort.  It can easily run to zero and stay there. 

4. ASIC resilience is a scam.

It has one thing going for it, they capped supply unlike Grin. Grin team fucked up the economics, same mistake as Monero.
mmitech
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1134
Merit: 1001


things you own end up owning you


View Profile
August 04, 2019, 11:56:41 AM

1.  It has a massive target in the form of a centralized dev team - same as Ethereum.   This is a very easy target for governments to crack.  

2. Network effect is close to zero

3.  The dev penalty is widely known and contrary to cypherpunk principles. Hence no buyers of last resort.  It can easily run to zero and stay there.  

4. ASIC resilience is a scam.

It has one thing going for it, they capped supply unlike Grin. Grin team fucked up the economics, same mistake as Monero.

1- I agree, development was designed to be centralized for the first year to allow for quicker progress (compare it to Grin or Monero for example), Ethereum and Zcash have the same model but Beam will change that by handing it to a foundation (same like the one Bitcoin had early days), but honestly if you think about it even the Bitcoin core write access is mostly held by Blockstream employees so...
2- Network effect works as long as the tech evolves, IBM had the network effect at some point as well, not denying Bitcoin's Network effect but I don't think this is a zero-sum game, don't forget that Beam was the first MW implementation, and it offers the best privacy/scaling right now.
3- Dev tax is priced in, I see the dev tax the same way I see the coinbase reward miners collect, we don't expect miners to throw free power thus we shouldn't expect devs to work for free, and you are so wrong about the cypherpunk principals, free means freedom and not slavery. also, what about the 1M BTC Satoshi owns? is it fair if he would be able to spend it one day?
4- Nothing is Asic resilient and the plan is not to be ASIC resistant, but switching PoW every 6 moths ruin any plans for any ASIC R&D thus making the distribution somewhat better the first year.
HairyMaclairy
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1064
Merit: 1734


Degenerate bull hatter & Bitcoin monotheist


View Profile
August 04, 2019, 12:13:02 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)

1.  Blockstream write access is tempered by the very high distribution of nodes. Including nodes which very deliberately run old versions.  Also Core is not the only client. Afaik Beam has only one client.

2.  People always underestimate first mover.  Bitcoin is aggressively evolving - just look at Lightning.

3.  Cypherpunk is not about corporatisation - c’mon man.  And foundations are BS.

4. The dev team is running ASICS.  I guarantee it.  

Look MW and cut through are interesting technologies.  But the market positioning and messaging is terrible.  It has CEO ffs.  This guy is going to go to jail to protect your darknet deals and tax evasion?  Not a chance. It’s a privacy coin not a utility coin.
BobLawblaw
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1526
Merit: 2164


Bitcointalk's Friendly Gay Negro from Outer Space


View Profile
August 04, 2019, 12:13:57 PM

The dev tax is necessary and priced in

 Dude. This is crypto. Do you even Libertarian ?
rebal15
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 527
Merit: 6


View Profile
August 04, 2019, 12:16:12 PM

Slap yourself,

if you sold $BTC under $10,000.

https://twitter.com/cz_binance/status/1157075839495761920

Price of BTC to be 8K end of august.
HairyMaclairy
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1064
Merit: 1734


Degenerate bull hatter & Bitcoin monotheist


View Profile
August 04, 2019, 12:17:19 PM

Find me a MW coin without dev penalty, that is decentralized and hasn’t fucked up the economics, and you will have my attention
kingcolex
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2086
Merit: 1216



View Profile
August 04, 2019, 12:19:53 PM

Find me a MW coin without dev penalty, that is decentralized and hasn’t fucked up the economics, and you will have my attention
Are people still fucking drooling over Mumble Wimble grin shit? I never understood why everyone had such a boner over it, no hardware wallet support, no gui wallet, pain to fucking actually use the damn thing.
serveria.com
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 700
Merit: 126


Balls of steel


View Profile WWW
August 04, 2019, 12:22:24 PM

1.  It has a massive target in the form of a centralized dev team - same as Ethereum.   This is a very easy target for governments to crack.  

2. Network effect is close to zero

3.  The dev penalty is widely known and contrary to cypherpunk principles. Hence no buyers of last resort.  It can easily run to zero and stay there.  

4. ASIC resilience is a scam.

It has one thing going for it, they capped supply unlike Grin. Grin team fucked up the economics, same mistake as Monero.

1- I agree, development was designed to be centralized for the first year to allow for quicker progress (compare it to Grin or Monero for example), Ethereum and Zcash have the same model but Beam will change that by handing it to a foundation (same like the one Bitcoin had early days), but honestly if you think about it even the Bitcoin core write access is mostly held by Blockstream employees so...
2- Network effect works as long as the tech evolves, IBM had the network effect at some point as well, not denying Bitcoin's Network effect but I don't think this is a zero-sum game, don't forget that Beam was the first MW implementation, and it offers the best privacy/scaling right now.
3- Dev tax is priced in, I see the dev tax the same way I see the coinbase reward miners collect, we don't expect miners to throw free power thus we shouldn't expect devs to work for free, and you are so wrong about the cypherpunk principals, free means freedom and not slavery. also, what about the 1M BTC Satoshi owns? is it fair if he would be able to spend it one day?
4- Nothing is Asic resilient and the plan is not to be ASIC resistant, but switching PoW every 6 moths ruin any plans for any ASIC R&D thus making the distribution somewhat better the first year.

Nice discussion guys but I suggest you move over to Beam discussion thread. I bet 99.9% of members here are not interested in any Beams-shmeams.  Grin
600watt
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2058
Merit: 1317



View Profile
August 04, 2019, 12:23:25 PM

Find me a MW coin without dev penalty, that is decentralized and hasn’t fucked up the economics, and you will have my attention
Are people still fucking drooling over Mumble Wimble grin shit? I never understood why everyone had such a boner over it, no hardware wallet support, no gui wallet, pain to fucking actually use the damn thing.


"use" and "altcoin" do not go together.    Cheesy
HairyMaclairy
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1064
Merit: 1734


Degenerate bull hatter & Bitcoin monotheist


View Profile
August 04, 2019, 12:31:04 PM

It’s an interesting idea.  But right now all of the implementations are fatally flawed.  Execution matters.

Long live the King
mmitech
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1134
Merit: 1001


things you own end up owning you


View Profile
August 04, 2019, 12:38:44 PM

1.  Blockstream write access is tempered by the very high distribution of nodes. Including nodes which very deliberately run old versions.  Also Core is not the only client. Afaik Beam has only one client.

2.  People always underestimate first mover.  Bitcoin is aggressively evolving - just look at Lightning.

3.  Cypherpunk is not about corporatisation - c’mon man.  And foundations are BS.

4. The dev team is running ASICS.  I guarantee it. 

Look MW and cut through are interesting technologies.  But the market positioning and messaging is terrible.  It has CEO ffs.  This guy is going to go to jail to protect your darknet deals and tax evasion?  Not a chance. It’s a privacy coin not a utility coin.

1- That is what you like to believe and that is the exact BS people are trying to sell to the public opinion, we devs look at numbers: ~97% of nodes run Bitcoin core nodes of which only 3.2 run on 0.15.1 which is the earliest version that has any significant count, there is also a Beam Rust implementation being worked on, but this doesn't mean shit really, we've seen how this plays out with both Bitcoin and Ethereum. it doesn't really help much.

2- I did not underestimate the network effect, I acknowledged its importance but I also gave an example of how this fade away in a very noisy market especially when slow progress is made (IBM) and I also said that I don't think the crypto game is a zero-sum game like some would like to think.

3- Cypherpunk is also not about slaving your days away, the word free always meant freedom never mean slave your days away for free, most successful open source projects are lead by corporates (Popular Linux distribution like RedHat and Ubuntu, OpenSuse or projects like Mozilla, Android or libs like openssl, boost and many other libs....)

4- you guarantee it? that is kind of a huge statement without any proof! just by looking at https://whattomine.com/ half of the hashrate comes from nicehash which is basically GPU miners chasing profitability, I have been watching this for months, when profitability jumps just a bit up the hashrate goes through the roof and vice versa.

5- Of course not, not sure if you have any idea about the open-source software, Beam is released under the Apache license which has 0 Liability and 0 Warranty. if a government crackdown on the team it would just mean the team will not be able to commit to the source code, the community can still keep the project going, in fact, community commits are getting higher by the day.
JayJuanGee
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 2142
Merit: 2328


How much alt coin diversification is needed? 0%?


View Profile
August 04, 2019, 12:40:33 PM

wow, this forum has gone downhill! no mods nowadays or what?

You are a fucking diptwat.

Last I heard from you was that you sold all your coins in the $600s in the 2014 time frame, and you were living happily ever after because bitcoin was going to go to zero (for sure).. and you knew it and you were smarter than the rest of us... blah blah blah.  You said a bunch of other dumbshit too, including that you weren't going to be coming back, except to tell us how dumb we were and to rub bitcoin in our face, yet for some strange reason bitocin is far exceeding 16x from the prices that you sold...

I can't imagine that you are actually smart about something, and I imagine you are coming back to tell us how wonderful your life is because you cashed out dollars - even though you could have been at least 16x more prosperous if you had hung onto your bitcoins.  Anyhow, whatever supposed smartness that you have is merely in your imaginary fantasy thinking rather than based on reality.

TLDR:  So what the fuck would you know about either bitcoin or this forum?


Go ahead point me to where I said that? I have called every bottom and top since 2012, and I have been working full time on Crypto related projects as a developer since 2014.

while you are still wasting your life arguing your nonsense on this thread...some people never change.

Oh... so you come back to tell us how smart you were including that posting on this thread is "wasting life?", and how you made a lot of money, too?

Perhaps your braggadocios presentation is part of the issue?
mmitech
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1134
Merit: 1001


things you own end up owning you


View Profile
August 04, 2019, 12:41:33 PM

Find me a MW coin without dev penalty, that is decentralized and hasn’t fucked up the economics, and you will have my attention
Are people still fucking drooling over Mumble Wimble grin shit? I never understood why everyone had such a boner over it, no hardware wallet support, no gui wallet, pain to fucking actually use the damn thing.


Beam has all of that... but if the dev tax really puts you off then IDK...you are probably just another choosing beggar.
mmitech
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1134
Merit: 1001


things you own end up owning you


View Profile
August 04, 2019, 12:44:04 PM

wow, this forum has gone downhill! no mods nowadays or what?

You are a fucking diptwat.

Last I heard from you was that you sold all your coins in the $600s in the 2014 time frame, and you were living happily ever after because bitcoin was going to go to zero (for sure).. and you knew it and you were smarter than the rest of us... blah blah blah.  You said a bunch of other dumbshit too, including that you weren't going to be coming back, except to tell us how dumb we were and to rub bitcoin in our face, yet for some strange reason bitocin is far exceeding 16x from the prices that you sold...

I can't imagine that you are actually smart about something, and I imagine you are coming back to tell us how wonderful your life is because you cashed out dollars - even though you could have been at least 16x more prosperous if you had hung onto your bitcoins.  Anyhow, whatever supposed smartness that you have is merely in your imaginary fantasy thinking rather than based on reality.

TLDR:  So what the fuck would you know about either bitcoin or this forum?


Go ahead point me to where I said that? I have called every bottom and top since 2012, and I have been working full time on Crypto related projects as a developer since 2014.

while you are still wasting your life arguing your nonsense on this thread...some people never change.

Oh... so you come back to tell us how smart you were including that posting on this thread is "wasting life?", and how you made a lot of money, too?

Perhaps your braggadocios presentation is part of the issue?

Exactly as I remember you, there has been no value from reading your posts and there is still no value... the dogs bark but the caravan moves on.

you are going into my ignore goodbye.
JayJuanGee
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 2142
Merit: 2328


How much alt coin diversification is needed? 0%?


View Profile
August 04, 2019, 12:53:01 PM

wow, this forum has gone downhill! no mods nowadays or what?

You are a fucking diptwat.

Last I heard from you was that you sold all your coins in the $600s in the 2014 time frame, and you were living happily ever after because bitcoin was going to go to zero (for sure).. and you knew it and you were smarter than the rest of us... blah blah blah.  You said a bunch of other dumbshit too, including that you weren't going to be coming back, except to tell us how dumb we were and to rub bitcoin in our face, yet for some strange reason bitocin is far exceeding 16x from the prices that you sold...

I can't imagine that you are actually smart about something, and I imagine you are coming back to tell us how wonderful your life is because you cashed out dollars - even though you could have been at least 16x more prosperous if you had hung onto your bitcoins.  Anyhow, whatever supposed smartness that you have is merely in your imaginary fantasy thinking rather than based on reality.

TLDR:  So what the fuck would you know about either bitcoin or this forum?


Go ahead point me to where I said that? I have called every bottom and top since 2012, and I have been working full time on Crypto related projects as a developer since 2014.

while you are still wasting your life arguing your nonsense on this thread...some people never change.

Oh... so you come back to tell us how smart you were including that posting on this thread is "wasting life?", and how you made a lot of money, too?

Perhaps your braggadocios presentation is part of the issue?

Exactly as I remember you, there has been no value from reading your posts and there is still no value... the dogs bark but the caravan moves on.

you are going into my ignore goodbye.

For sure, putting me into "ignore" is going to solve all issues, and currently instead of being on bitcoin bashing, you have turned into altcoin pumpening.   

But of course, you have remained smarter than the rest of us, so I suppose that is something that you kind of have going for you.


Beam


Wat?

Everything you said and you'll ever say in the future has lost its credibility the moment you mentioned beam.

Beam the shitcoin, the taxcoin you pay its devs from your mining income.

So you (d)evolved into a shitcoiner in the end after all those years, sad.


go ahead define What makes a shitcoin a shitcoin?

The dev tax is necessary and priced in, not sure why do people expect devs to slave for free, not to mention that this way incentives are aligned, I don't want to see a scenario where devs have to beg for donations to be able to work full time on a project, and no in Bitcoin all high profile devs are paid for by companies like blockstream, and the whole satoshi stash (~ 1M BTC) is just a huge fucking dev fee with an unknown fate, In fact, I feel much safer with the dev tax model since I know a huge deal of it will be re-invested in R&D
 
People seem to misunderstand the whole open-source Free software motto, Free means freedom in this sense and not choosing beggar heaven where investors get rich while devs slaves for free.

But again, like anytime I said anything and got shit for it, let the days be our judge.

Yes, I am not a fucking maximalist, I am tech agnostic, I don't belong to a cult. I follow tech and when the tech stagnate I continue my journey looking for a better one

Bitcoin's tech is stagnating? Currently?  Or in 2014?
mmitech
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1134
Merit: 1001


things you own end up owning you


View Profile
August 04, 2019, 12:56:17 PM

Find me a MW coin without dev penalty, that is decentralized and hasn’t fucked up the economics, and you will have my attention


Game theory is all in favor of the dev tax, Don't compare it to Bitcoin because as you said, Bitcoin has that network effect, dev tax is major for a project survival the first few years before it proves viable and gains community and the same people that trash altcoins refuse to let change to happen in the first layer of Bitcoin. there is no way that MW,cut-through and fly client and all the great tech would be implemented in Bitcoin layer1.

In fact, Blockstream go trashing every project out there, they try to shame any innovation because of "bad designs/centralization" but when they do it it is fine, they went and developed liquid which is a federated centralized chain with a shitcoin token and called it Bitcoin 1.5 ...it is just ridiculous. read this thread.
vroom
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 882
Merit: 326


a Cray can run an endless loop in under 4 hours


View Profile
August 04, 2019, 12:59:26 PM

beam me up satoshi
nutildah
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1638
Merit: 2645


https://bitcoin.watfordfc.com


View Profile
August 04, 2019, 01:10:54 PM

Beam has all of that...

Right, thanks for your audition. Don't call us, we'll call you.

FWIW I agree with you that the thread needs more moderation, but I have resigned to the flow of things rather than trying to fight it.
Pages: « 1 ... 24646 24647 24648 24649 24650 24651 24652 24653 24654 24655 24656 24657 24658 24659 24660 24661 24662 24663 24664 24665 24666 24667 24668 24669 24670 24671 24672 24673 24674 24675 24676 24677 24678 24679 24680 24681 24682 24683 24684 24685 24686 24687 24688 24689 24690 24691 24692 24693 24694 24695 [24696] 24697 24698 24699 24700 24701 24702 24703 24704 24705 24706 24707 24708 24709 24710 24711 24712 24713 24714 24715 24716 24717 24718 24719 24720 24721 24722 24723 24724 24725 24726 24727 24728 24729 24730 24731 24732 24733 24734 24735 24736 24737 24738 24739 24740 24741 24742 24743 24744 24745 24746 ... 25860 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!