Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Loozik]

I've been thinking due to the volume of trade on bitcoinbuilder, and the efficiency and timeliness of the exchange, that it could be possible that bitcoinbuilder was mtgox coordinated effort to facilitate the selling of goxbtc (which mtgox can fabricate) for real btc in order to raise funds.

Maybe.

The problem is Gox isn't communicating anything! I could live with my funds lost but at least I need to have this info from the official source.

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[billyjoeallen]

What is most concerning to me is that even after all that's happened, MK still has not admitted he has done a single thing wrong. If that is the sort of personality at the center of this mess, then how could someone help him even if they wanted to?

Sociopath.

Quite possibly. I am not at all optimistic that whatever negotiations are happening are going well. It's like Mark got caught in a pre-flop bluff and is doubling down on the flop, the turn and the river- PLAYING WITH HIS CUSTOMER'S FUNDS! He shouldn't be negotiating at all. He should be groveling at the foot of whoever can save the people who trusted him. If he doesn't, he'll go to jail or get murdered.

There's worse things in life than being a loser, Mark. I'm afraid you are about to find out what those things are.

With the general lack of communication and the phrasing of what little communication does come, he has to be a sociopath. He simply refuses to take any blame what-so-ever when Gox is the only entity that can be blamed for Gox's multiple failures. I haven't seen a shred of empathy for his customers either.

He seems to make the worst possible choices at every turn. Randomly deleting the twitter account and website. WTF?

If Gox was tasked with destroying Bitcoin, we would be at $75,000 per coin right now.

The worst part is the threads of hope he is dangling for his victims. "litecoin", "a turning point", etc. Give these poor bastards some fucking closure. I just want him gone. I hope Gox survives without him, but if he's still running the show, I want it to burn to the ground.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[Peter R]

I've been thinking due to the volume of trade on bitcoinbuilder, and the efficiency and timeliness of the exchange, that it could be possible that bitcoinbuilder was mtgox coordinated effort to facilitate the selling of goxbtc (which mtgox can fabricate) for real btc in order to raise funds.

Gox, or a company planning to takeover Gox, can right now buy 8 GoxBTC IOUs for 1 real BTC at BitcoinBuilder.  This would be a legal way to give depositors a voluntary "haircut" outside of bankruptcy.  Eyeballing the bitcoinity chart, it looks like they've done about 80,000 GoxBTC in trades.  A lot of this was swing trading, but perhaps 20,000 GoxBTC have been bought for an average price of 0.25, or 5,000 BTC.  

Of course we can't know, but if this was a coordinate effort to buy up the IOUs for cheap, then this action could have reduced Gox's BTC liabilities by about 15,000 BTC.  

If the 750,000 BTC loss is FUD, this might make sense...

[Undone]

I'm 99% certain the Facebook gox.com page is a fake.

For a start, why not put it all on the gox.com or mtgox.com websites?

I also really love the misspelling of "exaggerated."

[Rampion]

"A cold wallet technique that can't be broken, because of the cryptographic implications"

That's obviously a fake - and one written by someone with very little knowledge of what he is writing about.

[Spaceman_Spiff]

BFX down for anyone else?  I can't reach it or bitcoinwisdom.

both fine

[billyjoeallen]

I'm 99% certain the Facebook gox.com page is a fake.

For a start, why not put it all on the gox.com or mtgox.com websites?

I also really love the misspelling of "exaggerated."

Yeah, that typo really stands out. What would be really terrifying to me is if this ISN'T a fake. A new Gox with notices like that would be like a bad rash returning.

[7thKingdom]

"A cold wallet technique that can't be broken, because of the cryptographic implications"

That's obviously a fake - and one written by someone with very little knowledge of what he is writing about.

[jojo69]

Ahh yes, the bitcoinica "thing"
I got "Tounged" for ten

As your personal Lord and Saviour I would just like you to know I have a reason for everything that happens to you. It was not a mistake of mine to make that happen. I have a grand scheme just for you and that episode was a part of it. Keep the faith.

ROFL!!

[wetroof]

I've been thinking due to the volume of trade on bitcoinbuilder, and the efficiency and timeliness of the exchange, that it could be possible that bitcoinbuilder was mtgox coordinated effort to facilitate the selling of goxbtc (which mtgox can fabricate) for real btc in order to raise funds.

Gox, or a company planning to takeover Gox, can right now buy 8 GoxBTC IOUs for 1 real BTC at BitcoinBuilder.  This would be a legal way to give depositors a voluntary "haircut" outside of bankruptcy.  Eyeballing the bitcoinity chart, it looks like they've done about 80,000 GoxBTC in trades.  A lot of this was swing trading, but perhaps 20,000 GoxBTC have been bought for an average price of 0.25, or 5,000 BTC.  

Of course we can't know, but if this was a coordinate effort to buy up the IOUs for cheap, then this action could have reduced Gox's BTC liabilities by about 15,000 BTC.  

If the 750,000 BTC loss is FUD, this might make sense...

That's a good way to look at it thanks! Would it not be possible for Mtgox to credit an internal address with 1000 GoxBTC / IOU's, deposit them on BitcoinBuilder and buy up real btc?

[Richy_T]

well to the average user/investor having a fully regulated exchange > an exchange that can gox you at any time

Yeah, they will Gox you then the shareholders will get a bailout.

[Carra23]

I've been thinking due to the volume of trade on bitcoinbuilder, and the efficiency and timeliness of the exchange, that it could be possible that bitcoinbuilder was mtgox coordinated effort to facilitate the selling of goxbtc (which mtgox can fabricate) for real btc in order to raise funds.

Gox, or a company planning to takeover Gox, can right now buy 8 GoxBTC IOUs for 1 real BTC at BitcoinBuilder.  This would be a legal way to give depositors a voluntary "haircut" outside of bankruptcy.  Eyeballing the bitcoinity chart, it looks like they've done about 80,000 GoxBTC in trades.  A lot of this was swing trading, but perhaps 20,000 GoxBTC have been bought for an average price of 0.25, or 5,000 BTC.  

Of course we can't know, but if this was a coordinate effort to buy up the IOUs for cheap, then this action could have reduced Gox's BTC liabilities by about 15,000 BTC.  

If the 750,000 BTC loss is FUD, this might make sense...

Would make a lot of sense.
The moment they released the statement about transaction malleability, I knew they were manipulating markets massively.

[JorgeStolfi]

The most basic number to understand the situation of Mt.GOX is X = A-B, where "A" are the company's assets and "B" are its liabilities.

Apparently no one (perhaps not even MtGOX's management?) has any clue about the values of "A" and "B", not even how many figures they have.

All the signs indicate that X is negative and large, minus tens of millions of dollars at least.  But not even that is certain.

We know that "B" includes the 40,000 BTC  that some clients recently claimed to have been trying to withdraw for months.

But "B" also includes the BTC and USD balances of all its clients, whether they tried to withdraw or not.  I have seen one estimate (by outsiders) that this sum may be 1 billion USD or more.  Apparently this number was obtained by guessing the number of accounts and guessing the average account balance.  Not a meaningful estimate, but it highlights the extent of our ignorance.

MtGOX apparently has now exhibited some 40,000 BTC (~20 million USD at current price) on blockchain.info and claimed that they are part of "A".  

Is that all of "A"?

EDIT: And that "exhibit" of 40,000 BTC is almost certainly a hoax.  So we have no reliable information at all about "A". It could even be zero.

[FTWbitcoinFTW]

Most simple solution are the best






*miss a banana but it's a big table !

[Peter R]

I've been thinking due to the volume of trade on bitcoinbuilder, and the efficiency and timeliness of the exchange, that it could be possible that bitcoinbuilder was mtgox coordinated effort to facilitate the selling of goxbtc (which mtgox can fabricate) for real btc in order to raise funds.

Gox, or a company planning to takeover Gox, can right now buy 8 GoxBTC IOUs for 1 real BTC at BitcoinBuilder.  This would be a legal way to give depositors a voluntary "haircut" outside of bankruptcy.  Eyeballing the bitcoinity chart, it looks like they've done about 80,000 GoxBTC in trades.  A lot of this was swing trading, but perhaps 20,000 GoxBTC have been bought for an average price of 0.25, or 5,000 BTC.  

Of course we can't know, but if this was a coordinate effort to buy up the IOUs for cheap, then this action could have reduced Gox's BTC liabilities by about 15,000 BTC.  

If the 750,000 BTC loss is FUD, this might make sense...

That's a good way to look at it thanks! Would it not be possible for Mtgox to credit an internal address with 1000 GoxBTC / IOU's, deposit them on BitcoinBuilder and buy up real btc?

Both scenarios are possible: your's where they create fractional-reserve fake GoxBTC in order to get real BTC [and criminally increase their BTC liabilities], and mine where an interested third party buys up the GoxBTC for cheap [to reduce Gox's BTC liabilities for the takeover bid].  

Your scenario is fraud pure and simple, while mine I think would actually be legal.  I hope that I am right, but, at this point, who knows.  
 

[seldon]

Most simple solution are the best






*miss a banana but it's a big table !

Finally some constructive solution!

[Adrian-x]

Holy shit, guys!  I know a lot of you are hurting, and I'm sorry.  150+ of my bitcoins are going down with the gox ship, but I can't quite express just how excited I am for the future of bitcoin without MtGox.  It's finally happening.  Good riddance, and fuck you, Gox!

With all that confirmed news, you still bought 150 XBT on Gox? WTF!, that's like 30 real XBT, I feel your pain.

I got a little ahead there.
 

[f4tal1ty]

Most simple solution are the best






*miss a banana but it's a big table !

Finally some constructive solution!

  Awesome!

[humanitee]

Holy shit, guys!  I know a lot of you are hurting, and I'm sorry.  150+ of my bitcoins are going down with the gox ship, but I can't quite express just how excited I am for the future of bitcoin without MtGox.  It's finally happening.  Good riddance, and fuck you, Gox!

With all that confirmed news, you still bought 150 XBT on Gox? WTF!, that's like 30 real XBT, I feel your pain.
 

Read thread again.