Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Amechan]

1) Could you explain how the authorities, namely the US government, having over a million BTC is extremely bullish?

I don't envision this a reality but it can be filed under "could explain bullishness":
http://rt.com/usa/us-postal-service-bitcoin-780/

BTC is a currency, as the U.S. gov has admitted. They can keep seized money and/or spend it:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91490480

WTF

What's the difference between criminal and civil forfeiture?
In criminal forfeiture, the taking of property is usually carried out after the owner is convicted of a crime. In civil forfeiture, the government seizes the property — in this case, the currency — without ever charging the person with a crime. The government must show by a preponderance of the evidence that the money is dirty; then it's up to the owner to prove that his cash is clean. To defend the money requires hiring a lawyer, who often charges more than the amount of the seized cash.

So.. the police in America can just say "yoink" and then you have to prove the money is not from a crime?

Doesn't that go against the whole guilty until proven innocent thing?

Not that I should talk. In Japan they can hold you for a maximum of 23 days without charging you. http://www.debito.org/arrestperiods.html

[KeyserSoze]

try https://products.butterflylabs.com/

<!-- put 100% bullshit marketing copy here -->

[dreamspark]

This is so boring!!

[tailor]

Based on approximate three months of various uncertainties in the China ban situation that took us from early December into late January and then the Mt. Gox situation through the month of February.... .... and also based on the fact that the BTC network has been expanding, growing and developing during this time while investors have been waiting on the side-lines b/c of the uncertainties... that is my sense of the situation... and my sense that as soon as some of these uncertainties are resolved.. which they seem to have been largely resolved, we are going moon-ish... or at least suborbital moon into the $750 to $850 range first.. and then into the $1500 range... absent some further impediments.....      

Do you have a different sense of the current situation?

My sense is that nobody has a clue what's going to happen, and that looking at the same set of facts most predictions will tend to align with the wishes of the person making the prediction.

That is way to fantastical to think that we all live in fantasy worlds.. with our own sense of reality that is NOT really based in reality. I do NOT see the world like that. ... I do NOT buy that the world is just made up of a bunch of people wishing whatever they want.

What's fantastical about the observation that predictions align with wishes? Unless you've got a fantastical crystal ball you can't know what's going to happen. I'm merely pointing out that a set of facts or rumour will be interpreted many ways, and people on these message boards will usually interpret them to support their wants.  The MTGox news is the just the latest example: bulls see it as bullish in the long run, bears see it as bearish.

It's not fantasy, it's just observing the bias we all have.

[KeyserSoze]

Doesn't that go against the whole guilty until proven innocent thing?

People often joke that "America has the worst form of government on the planet except for all the others." It ain't perfect.

There's a "stop and frisk" law in New York now. Basically if you look suspicious they can just stop you and search your person. That seems incredibly un-American to me (an American) yet it exists, seemingly in direct contradiction to "innocent until proven guilty" and the search laws we already have on the books.

[JorgeStolfi]

By the way, I applaud all the other exchange owners who, realizing the importance of public trust for the survival of bitcoin and hence of their business, have promptly disclosed their financial positions, and proved that they do own enough bitcoins to cover all the BTC account balances of their clients.  I am anxiously waiting for the reports of the external auditors that they have hired to check their books.  <---[ note the smiley ]

Where did you read this? Link please.

It seems that one smiley was not enough, so:     

[tailor]

"That same document also described fiat assets of $32.43m and liabilities of $55m. The assets include $5m “held by CoinLab” and another $5.5m “held by the DHS”. "

So $21 million in liquidity remains in Gox bank  to be disbursed to clients. How much will go back to purchase real coins!  

Where's the $21M?

Assets - Liabilities = -$22.57M, hence the need for declaring bankruptcy.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[GreekGeek]

"That same document also described fiat assets of $32.43m and liabilities of $55m. The assets include $5m “held by CoinLab” and another $5.5m “held by the DHS”. "

So $21 million in liquidity remains in Gox bank  to be disbursed to clients. How much will go back to purchase real coins!  

Where's the $21M?

Assets - Liabilities = -$22.57M, hence the need for declaring bankruptcy.

$32.43m/$55m = 59%

theoretically this is what you get back

I wonder if the coins are included in the figures

[JorgeStolfi]

"That same document also described fiat assets of $32.43m and liabilities of $55m. The assets include $5m “held by CoinLab” and another $5.5m “held by the DHS”. "

So $21 million in liquidity remains in Gox bank  to be disbursed to clients. How much will go back to purchase real coins!  

Where's the $21M?

Assets - Liabilities = -$22.57M, hence the need for declaring bankruptcy.

AFAIK the main liabilities are what MtGOX owes to their clients.  Isn't that so?

[manfred]

These is was the MtGox Business Plan for 2014-2017, prepared by Mt. Gox and its representatives in late January.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/209535200/Business-Plan-MtGox-2014-2017#download

[dreamspark]

"That same document also described fiat assets of $32.43m and liabilities of $55m. The assets include $5m “held by CoinLab” and another $5.5m “held by the DHS”. "

So $21 million in liquidity remains in Gox bank  to be disbursed to clients. How much will go back to purchase real coins!  

Where's the $21M?

Assets - Liabilities = -$22.57M, hence the need for declaring bankruptcy.

$32.43m/$55m = 59%

theoretically this is what you get back

I wonder if the coins are included in the figures

I thought that the coins were included in the figures but at the closing exchange price. Ill have to try and remember where I read it.

[donut]

Doesn't that go against the whole guilty until proven innocent thing?

People often joke that "America has the worst form of government on the planet except for all the others." It ain't perfect.

There's a "stop and frisk" law in New York now. Basically if you look suspicious they can just stop you and search your person. That seems incredibly un-American to me (an American) yet it exists, seemingly in direct contradiction to "innocent until proven guilty" and the search laws we already have on the books.

False, "looking suspicious" isn't enough legally:

http://law.onecle.com/new-york/criminal-procedure/CPL0140.50_140.50.html

a police officer may stop a person in a public place located within the geographical area of such officer's  employment when  he reasonably  suspects  that  such  person  is  committing,  has committed or is about to commit either (a) a felony or (b) a misdemeanor defined in the penal law, and may demand of him his name, address and an explanation of his conduct.

[droptable]

butterflylabs.com is completely running normal - at least if you try to reach it from here (central Europe).

seems to be a problem of the CDN.

[shmadz]

Doesn't that go against the whole guilty until proven innocent thing?

People often joke that "America has the worst form of government on the planet except for all the others." It ain't perfect.

There's a "stop and frisk" law in New York now. Basically if you look suspicious they can just stop you and search your person. That seems incredibly un-American to me (an American) yet it exists, seemingly in direct contradiction to "innocent until proven guilty" and the search laws we already have on the books.

False, "looking suspicious" isn't enough legally:

http://law.onecle.com/new-york/criminal-procedure/CPL0140.50_140.50.html

a police officer may stop a person in a public place located within the geographical area of such officer's  employment when  he reasonably  suspects  that  such  person  is  committing,  has committed or is about to commit either (a) a felony or (b) a misdemeanor defined in the penal law, and may demand of him his name, address and an explanation of his conduct.

yeah, all that legal language basically means "looking suspicious"

police

[fluidjax]

What a relief butterflylabs site is back up, in 2 weeks time I'm going to order some miners

[id10tothe9]

did you know that the Methuselah foundation accepts bitcoin donations!!


foto upload


this is for me and for all longevity enthusiasts great news, that's why I had to post it here, this is in my opinion how such genius research should be funded, without waiting for old rusty governments!! if you want more support for longevity research like I do, spread the word! and if you don't know what that is, watch Aubrey de Gray explain at TED:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMAwnA5WvLc
https://mfoundation.org/

[tailor]

$32.43m/$55m = 59%

theoretically this is what you get back

I wonder if the coins are included in the figures

Coins aren't included - it states fiat assets.

Other creditors will be paid ahead of customers.  MTGox filed for a "similar to chapter 11" bankruptcy, so the business isn't being wound up. It's premature to talk about assets being distributed and, as the original poster predicted, reinvested into BTC.

[KeyserSoze]

Doesn't that go against the whole guilty until proven innocent thing?

People often joke that "America has the worst form of government on the planet except for all the others." It ain't perfect.

There's a "stop and frisk" law in New York now. Basically if you look suspicious they can just stop you and search your person. That seems incredibly un-American to me (an American) yet it exists, seemingly in direct contradiction to "innocent until proven guilty" and the search laws we already have on the books.

False, "looking suspicious" isn't enough legally:

http://law.onecle.com/new-york/criminal-procedure/CPL0140.50_140.50.html

a police officer may stop a person in a public place located within the geographical area of such officer's  employment when  he reasonably  suspects  that  such  person  is  committing,  has committed or is about to commit either (a) a felony or (b) a misdemeanor defined in the penal law, and may demand of him his name, address and an explanation of his conduct.

Legally, lol, but in real life how does it work? There's a Youtube video of a kid who was tired of being harassed for "looking suspicious" so he records his next stop.
http://www.thenation.com/article/170413/stopped-and-frisked-being-fking-mutt-video

There's plenty of other violations of this ridiculous law, which is why there shouldn't be a fucking "stop and frisk" law. Stop and frisk AFTER a crime has been committed. You know, that crazy "innocent until proven guilty" thing. Troubling, I know. We do not arrest for thought crimes, or at least we're supposed to have grown beyond that.

[Loozik]

"That same document also described fiat assets of $32.43m and liabilities of $55m. The assets include $5m “held by CoinLab” and another $5.5m “held by the DHS”. "

So $21 million in liquidity remains in Gox bank  to be disbursed to clients. How much will go back to purchase real coins!  

Where's the $21M?

Assets - Liabilities = -$22.57M, hence the need for declaring bankruptcy.

$32.43m/$55m = 59%

theoretically this is what you get back

I wonder if the coins are included in the figures

I doubt we'll see anything. There will be experts and court clerks to pay. Their fees will eat our funds.