Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[JorgeStolfi]

When I said "poker better odds" I was referring to the Chinese traders using high frequency trading bots on Huobi.

I do not know whether the Chinese use robots or semi-automatic tools.  But I would not call them "high-fequency".  This term usually means a trading robot that does many transactions per second, to exploit very small margins.  All Huobi clients together do perhaps a few hundred transactions per minute, and many of these look rather human (with round numbers, for instance).

[MatTheCat]

So what about this "big turn". Do YOU know how to tell when it's happening? What signs are there? Is it happening now?

billyjoeallen been calling the bottom all the way down. Don't waste your brain cells on billyjoeallen. Just yet another fkn clown who lucked out big style. He can afford to remain completely gormless regarding market machinations (and I imagine most other things in life), at least for the time being.

Mind you, I would love to hear his philanthropic talk of his 'love for the project' if Bitcoin nosed dived back into double figures....and stayed there.

I do not know whether the Chinese use robots or semi-automatic tools.  But I would not call them "high-fequency".  This term usually means a trading robot that does many transactions per second, to exploit very small margins.  All Huobi clients together do perhaps a few hundred transactions per minute, and many of these look rather human (with round numbers, for instance).

I do suspect that Huobi might be used as a means of manipulating USD exchange price but it has got to be said, Huobi has the most organic looking trades of all exchanges. I don't see any of the mechanical flat lining or bullshit price nudging that I do on the exchanges

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[TERA]

Go away with your emotional buy and hold propoganda. I've heard it a million times and I'm not interested in the buy and hold strategy. If all I ever did was buy and hold I'd have 2% of what I have now. I'd have NOTHING.

[wetroof]

I looked up what this meant posted on mtgox.com

ANNOUNCEMENT REGARDING AN APPLICATION FOR COMMENCEMENT OF A PROCEDURE OF CIVIL REHABILITATION

1 Answer

Japan’s Civil Rehabilitation Law was intended “to enable application for rehabilitation procedures and the commencement of such procedures prior to the occurrence of bankruptcy factors.” [1] Holding the creditor meeting is arbitrary [2] to enable a debtor to continue with the execution of its business and management/disposal of its assets, [3] and otherwise sustain operations, while committing to corporate rehabilitation.

Although the Corporate Reorganization Law applies only to joint-stock corporations (kabushiki kaisha, or KK, in Japanese), the Civil Rehabilitation Law covers all companies, including foreign-affiliated businesses. Although management can begin corporate rehabilitation on its own prior to the stage of collapse, the law was enacted as a “process to prevent business failure.”

Under Civil Rehabilitation Procedures, assets and liabilities are reassessed as if bankruptcy has occurred, [4] and expected bankruptcy dividend amounts are established. This assessment of assets is conducted, in principle, on the basis of selling price, [5] and a dividend based on the liquidation value is applied to the rehabilitation creditors (principle of liquidation value guarantee [6] ). However, civil rehabilitation companies continue their operations in principle and do not actually liquidate, so any earnings from their remaining assets can exceed reassessed liquidation value, creating a framework in which a business can be rehabilitated swiftly.

Corporate rehabilitation has been limited to a select number of companies in Japan. Among small and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs), many companies are unable to find financial support and are forced into bankruptcy (i.e., liquidation) without any prospect of reorganization. According to a survey by Teikoku Databank, only 2,841 of the companies that filed for protection from creditors under the Civil Rehabilitation Law obtained approval for their rehabilitation plans. That accounts for only 66.7 percent of all applicants. [7]

[billyjoeallen]

Go away with your emotional buy and hold propoganda. I've heard it a million times and I'm not interested in the buy and hold strategy. If all I ever did was buy and hold I'd have 2% of what I have now. I'd have NOTHING.

You've made 50X your original buy-in? So about the same as everyone who's been holding for a year, right? Is it worth all the stress to marginally outperform the market? I mean, you don't seem to be enjoying it, judging from your posts.

[magicmexican]

Goxcoin to the moon!

[TERA]

Go away with your emotional buy and hold propoganda. I've heard it a million times and I'm not interested in the buy and hold strategy. If all I ever did was buy and hold I'd have 2% of what I have now. I'd have NOTHING.

You've made 50X your original buy-in? So about the same as everyone who's been holding for a year, right? Is it worth all the stress to marginally outperform the market? I mean, you don't seem to be enjoying it, judging from your posts.

I'm not marginally outperforming the market. I'm outperforming it by 5,000%. You must have misinterpreted my post.

[Searing]

Goxcoin to the moon!

snicker...snort...lmao....

[octaft]

Idk. Why are posts filled with hate, anger, racism, sexism, and stupidity even on this forum? I see them every once in a while and they baffle me. I thought bitcoiners were supposed to smart or evolved people.

Wherever you go, some people are just going to suck. Don't stress yourself out over it too much.

[kurious]

Great summary of Japanese insolvency law and procedure here:

http://www.bingham.com/Publications/Files/2012/02/A-Practical-Guide-to-Japanese-Insolvency-Procedures

Note differences between civil rehabilitation and corporate reorganisation.

(in any case, it could take anywhere from a few months to years)

[billyjoeallen]

Go away with your emotional buy and hold propoganda. I've heard it a million times and I'm not interested in the buy and hold strategy. If all I ever did was buy and hold I'd have 2% of what I have now. I'd have NOTHING.

You've made 50X your original buy-in? So about the same as everyone who's been holding for a year, right? Is it worth all the stress to marginally outperform the market? I mean, you don't seem to be enjoying it, judging from your posts.

I'm not marginally outperforming the market. I'm outperforming it by 5,000%. You must have misinterpreted my post.

Let me get this straight. Bitcoin is up ~600% since you started trading, so you've made ~300X profit in fiat terms? Is that what you're claiming? That's difficult to believe considering some of the bad calls you've made.

[TERA]

Go away with your emotional buy and hold propoganda. I've heard it a million times and I'm not interested in the buy and hold strategy. If all I ever did was buy and hold I'd have 2% of what I have now. I'd have NOTHING.

You've made 50X your original buy-in? So about the same as everyone who's been holding for a year, right? Is it worth all the stress to marginally outperform the market? I mean, you don't seem to be enjoying it, judging from your posts.

I'm not marginally outperforming the market. I'm outperforming it by 5,000%. You must have misinterpreted my post.

Let me get this straight. Bitcoin is up ~600% since you started trading, so you've made ~300X profit in fiat terms? Is that what you're claiming? That's difficult to believe considering some of the bad calls you've made.

That's correct.  And yes I've made bad calls. But most of my profit does not come from calling the major reversals in bear markets and bull markets correctly - it actually comes from daytrading during high volume high volatility times when money is flying all over the place and there are literally opportunities to make 1000% profit in a day, especially if you use leverage.  Now take someone who doesn't make 'bad calls' and take someone who only makes good calls (a god) - they might be up 1,000,000% by now in the same time that I took to make 30,000%.

[JCviggen]

Meanwhile, goxcoin rallies on builder. lol

It's a ghost market. Noone can sell his goxBTC except for those who withdrew before the site went down. In addition, builder takes 4% off each trade. Naturally the volume dwindles into nothingness.

I think these Goxcoins are actually very suitable for a pump and dump. When they suddenly go up everyone is wondering what someone knows that they don't. I gambled on a bunch of them when they were in the .35s but the volatility means I've been able to trade my BTC back and still have some free goxcoins left.

[mmitech]

Go away with your emotional buy and hold propoganda. I've heard it a million times and I'm not interested in the buy and hold strategy. If all I ever did was buy and hold I'd have 2% of what I have now. I'd have NOTHING.

You've made 50X your original buy-in? So about the same as everyone who's been holding for a year, right? Is it worth all the stress to marginally outperform the market? I mean, you don't seem to be enjoying it, judging from your posts.

I'm not marginally outperforming the market. I'm outperforming it by 5,000%. You must have misinterpreted my post.

Let me get this straight. Bitcoin is up ~600% since you started trading, so you've made ~300X profit in fiat terms? Is that what you're claiming? That's difficult to believe considering some of the bad calls you've made.

Good morning, I told you that people trade and make profit and you didnt believe and I showed you screen shots of my trades and my profits but you still attack traders and shoot buy and hold buy and hold, you know if I did that my average BTC cost would be 55.7 or near that, but you know what is my BTC average now ? well it is not $10 and not 5 and not $1 and not even $0.1/BTC but it is $-700, yes negative, that means that each BTC has generated $700 for me already, and that means even if BTC goes to $0 I wouldnt be effected, because it is like I sold all my BTC at $700.


I never told you it is bad to buy and hold, in fact this is what I recommend all my friends to do, but we do trade and we are aware of the risks, for now if BTC price wont drop further and if we stay at this price or shoot up to 600-650 I will have to buy back with a 30-35 BTC loss and I am aware of this risk.

but we tend to challenge the market by predicting moves and we get rewarded with X% profit or get fucked up, this is why trading is not for everyone...

[TERA]

By the way I do also keep a buy and hold position of 20% of my crypto funds at all times in cold storage. This consists of 15 times as many bitcoins as I obtained in my original purchase when I first started. So if bitcoin reaches millions, then, no matter what, I will be enjoying my time with the bulls. The funds that I use for trading... are just extra trading profits which, according to bulls, I shouldn't possibly have anyway.

[Spaceman_Spiff]

Trading is a zero-sum game, just like poker.  If you are good at it, you can make tons of dough.  In the end, the only one who is almost guaranteed to win is the house (the exchanges with their fees), unless your initials are M.K. of course...

That's correct.  And yes I've made bad calls. But most of my profit does not come from calling the major reversals in bear markets and bull markets correctly - it actually comes from daytrading during high volume high volatility times when money is flying all over the place and there are literally opportunities to make 1000% profit in a day, especially if you use leverage.  Now take someone who doesn't make 'bad calls' and take someone who only makes good calls (a god) - they might be up 1,000,000% by now in the same time that I took to make 30,000%.

Since traders try to outsmart each other all of the time, even marginally outperforming the market seems like a victory to me...  
Thinking about the potential profits to be made by making every call right will make a man go insane (and it's statistically super-unlikely anyway).  If it were so easy to pick the right moments to buy and sell, everybody could and would do it, and there wouldn't be any real volatility anymore...

[creekbore]

9376 volume on stamp ??

This is starting to remind of the 5 other times i thought the trend was breaking and I had to buy. The only difference is MACD is up now (slightly).

sexist bullshit

Multiple incorrect things in here. I'll admit my minds is a little weak right now due to exhaustion, terrible sleeping patters, and other bad habits. This may account for some missed trades and emotionally charged posts that I would not have made otherwise.

So what about this "big turn". Do YOU know how to tell when it's happening? What signs are there? Is it happening now?

Why are you even entertaining that utter stupidity with any sort of reasonable response?

Idk. Why are posts filled with hate, anger, racism, sexism, and stupidity even on this forum? I see them every once in a while and they baffle me. I thought bitcoiners were supposed to smart or evolved people.

Another thing that suprises me is this kind of thing (and also profanity) will get someone banned in the btc-e trollbox but is perfectly ok here.

TERA, mate!

I know you think little of me or my thoughts but please...sometimes I think you are fourteen going on fifteen.

We've inhabited the trollbox for roughly the same time: you should know you can come out with as much racist/homophobic/misogynistic/anti-semitic shite as you can imagine there "no worries" and then get a ban for the heinous crime of using ALL CAPS.

And at this stage do you not realise that with all the will in the world you cannot overlay traditional TA onto an emerging and fundamentally discrete and distinct market like BTC.   

You're clearly an intelligent chap, so I don't see why it is so difficult for you to accept that there may be intellectual ambiguity within the paradigm that you're studying and make the appropriate allowances, rather than throwing your hands in the air when the world doesn't fit into your prescribed mathematical patterns.

[TERA]

I've seen someone get banned for 3000 years at btc-e for using the word "nigger".

[RicePicker]

9376 volume on stamp ??

This is starting to remind of the 5 other times i thought the trend was breaking and I had to buy. The only difference is MACD is up now (slightly).

sexist bullshit

Multiple incorrect things in here. I'll admit my minds is a little weak right now due to exhaustion, terrible sleeping patters, and other bad habits. This may account for some missed trades and emotionally charged posts that I would not have made otherwise.

So what about this "big turn". Do YOU know how to tell when it's happening? What signs are there? Is it happening now?

Why are you even entertaining that utter stupidity with any sort of reasonable response?

Idk. Why are posts filled with hate, anger, racism, sexism, and stupidity even on this forum? I see them every once in a while and they baffle me. I thought bitcoiners were supposed to smart or evolved people.

Another thing that suprises me is this kind of thing (and also profanity) will get someone banned in the btc-e trollbox but is perfectly ok here.

TERA, mate!

I know you think little of me or my thoughts but please...sometimes I think you are fourteen going on fifteen.

We've inhabited the trollbox for roughly the same time: you should know you can come out with as much racist/homophobic/misogynistic/anti-semitic shite as you can imagine there "no worries" and then get a ban for the heinous crime of using ALL CAPS.

And at this stage do you not realise that with all the will in the world you cannot overlay traditional TA onto an emerging and fundamentally discrete and distinct market like BTC.  

You're clearly an intelligent chap, so I don't see why it is so difficult for you to accept that there may be intellectual ambiguity within the paradigm that you're studying and make the appropriate allowances, rather than throwing your hands in the air when the world doesn't fit into your prescribed mathematical patterns.

I do not know how old everyone on this forum is, but the fact that some of you need to justify and argue to random people on the internet how your trading decisions have made you rich is extremely childish. If you have made profit, good for you, you do not need to judge others opinions and decisions just because they are the opposite of yours. You have made money and they did not, that should be enough.