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Question: How far will this leg take us?
$110K - 9 (8.3%)
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$130K - 17 (15.7%)
$140K - 9 (8.3%)
$150K - 19 (17.6%)
$160K - 2 (1.9%)
$170K+ - 33 (30.6%)
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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 26913435 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (174 posts by 1 users with 9 merit deleted.)
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December 07, 2025, 04:01:16 AM


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December 07, 2025, 04:07:58 AM

[edited out]
This is what AI provides for having bought Bitcoin on a monthly DCA basis over the past year:

If you had dollar-cost averaged (DCA) into Bitcoin monthly over the past year, your average cost basis today would be roughly in the range of $70,000–$75,000 per BTC, compared to the current market price of about $89,400. That means you’d be sitting on a gain of around 20–25%.

You and your AI are delusional.

Plug in the numbers on this website.  https://newhedge.io/bitcoin/dollar-cost-averaging-calculator

Methodology:
- DCA assumes equal monthly purchases regardless of price.
 
This is what AI provides for having bought Bitcoin on a monthly DCA basis over the past year:

If you had dollar-cost averaged (DCA) into Bitcoin monthly over the past year, your average cost basis today would be roughly in the range of $70,000–$75,000 per BTC, compared to the current market price of about $89,400. That means you’d be sitting on a gain of around 20–25%.

Yes.  in a strict DCA we could calculate daily purchases, weekly or some other time frame..  Of course, in the real world we could vary the purchase amounts, yet frequently for illustrative purposes we will presume some steady amount.
 
- We use the monthly closing prices from December 2024 through November 2025.

Monthly does not tend to be a accurate.. especially for short periods, and I don't know why anyone would be so retarded as to choose the monthly opening/closing prices for the day that they are buying.. but sure maybe a dumbass robot might theorize about buying bitcoin in such a way.
 
- Each month, $1,000 is invested (example amount), accumulating fractional BTC.
- The average cost basis is the total invested divided by total BTC accumulated.

 Sure.  This is correct.

Price trend over the past year:
- Late 2024: Bitcoin traded around $43,000–$45,000.

In terms of relevancy, I recall the BTC price right prior to the Trump pump to have had been right around $69k.

Sure there was a lot of ranging between March 2024 and November 2024 that was between $48k and $70k-ish.

- Early 2025: Prices climbed steadily into the $60,000–$70,000 range.
 

Again it is likely better to refer to relevancy rather than just making some shit up.

The price peaked on January 20, 2025 at $109.3k and then dipped down to $74.5k on April 6, and then recovered back to $126k on October 6.
 
- Mid 2025: Surged past $100,000 briefly before correcting.
 

We had three new ATHs in 2025, 1) $112k May, 2) $123k July and 3) $126k on October 6.
 
- Late 2025: Stabilized around $85,000–$90,000.
 

Bitcoin does not do "stable" in the midst of a battle.. and I am not sure if consolidation is going to happen in our current price range, even though sure we have been been between $80k-ish and $94k-ish for a month.
 
Result:
- Because DCA captured both the lower prices in late 2024 and the higher prices in 2025, the blended average sits well below today’s spot price.
 

 You can look at the DCA website to get more accurate looks at the average in the last year, which is right around $100k.

This demonstrates the risk-mitigating effect of DCA: you avoid mistiming the market and end up with a favorable average compared to current levels.
 

 I agree that DCA is good for averagingin out our costs, yet it still might take several years (even 3 or 4 years) before our holdings are clearly in profits.  

Of course, we can use DCA tools to obtain average costs per BTC over a period of time, in the real world, we might not exactly invest the same amount each week, even though perhpas over 3 or 4 years, we still might have had reached a certain average that might be 10% of our income, for example, yet our income might go up 3-6% each year, and yeah if we are getting promoted, we might even have years that are 20% or higher  in subsequent years as compared with earlier years, yet also with bitcoin, we likely would have had done better to front load our bitcoin investment, except yeah, sometimews if we frontload on a price spiking period, then it might take longer to get our holdings into profits.

Why DCA worked well:
- Volatility smoothing: Buying during dips (e.g., $43k–$50k) lowered the average cost.
 

 Buying during dips are different from DCA, since more pure ideas of DCA does not account for price, even though sure guys can hybridize their DCA approach and buy on dips too.

The three pure forms of accumulating bitcoin are lump sum, DCA and buy on dips, and sure they can be combined too, yet if we are talking about DCA and about buying on dips, those are two different kinds of strategies, even if we can hybridize them if we were to choose to do so.

- Trend capture: Continued buying during rallies ensured exposure to upside momentum.
 

I know some folks want to buy on momentum and those tend to be traders rather than investors.
 
- Outcome: Even though Bitcoin peaked above $100k, your average stayed anchored lower, giving you a cushion against corrections.

The last year the average has been around $100k, not the made up numbers of $70k to $75k as you wrongly asserted.

[edited out]
What area of the world are you located?
Why does it matter where I am?

Bitcoin is a world-wide phenomena, and this thread is also a world-wide thread since we are talking about bitcoin not some pump of any particular product in any country..

Sure, the US does seem to get a disproportion amount of press, and this thread (and many of the forum threads) discusses bitcoin in terms of the USD pair, even though every once in a while some other currency pair might gain some temporary relevancy.

Maybe you should frame each of your posts in terms of US interests too.  That is really going to help you to appear like you understand bitcoin and/or want to understand bitcoin.
I asked where in the world you are located because you (quoted below) specifically referred to 'the west' when replying to me so that implied you are somewhere to the east and probably not in the west - and what you said was a veiled ridicule of various financial products offered in the west (likely meaning the U.S.). It was just a curiosity, that's all. If you are ashamed to say - no problem. Let's move on...    
Quote
I know that in the west there are various financial products that rich people can buy, yet there are other parts of the world too.. I suppose your ideal vision of the world would be for normies around the world to lock themselves into various bitcoin financial products, and then you feel like a winner as that angle of number go up pays off for you, until it doesn't.. until you get rug pulled out of your coins, yet you expect a bail out, since you trust the various financialization aspects of bitcoin.

It is still not relevant where I am from. All kinds of folks talk about the west in terms of standard of living and then also the US is a purveyor of various financial products and also priviledge folks who are closer to the money printer (aka Cantillon effect) to the extent any of that matters to the overall topic.

In this thread, guys can talk from any place in the world and/or criticize one country or another, even though sometimes comments can be biased in this thread too, whether we are talking about financial matters or cultural matters.  For sure any culture and/or financial system that is dominating is likely deserving of more criticism and skepticism based on various ways that it imposes itself all around the world and has various negative effects too.

I think but do not know that JJG is real I also think but do not know if he is US based.
In fact on this particular thread

I know DaveF and OgNasty are real
I met DaveF  in person  purchased,sold gear and coins to him
 I sold gear and shipped it to

OgNasty along with buying coins from Og.
Anyone else I do not know if they are real or fake or where they live.

We likely have more and more problems with bots in recent times, and I imagine that the bot problem is likely going to get worse.

Impressive numbers (from reddit): 8 year DCA with $30 in bitcoin bought daily (must have automated this on some exchange).
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1pfkbn2/someone_has_been_buying_30_worth_of_bitcoin_daily/
$86000 invested, $1 mil-current value (i assume a bit more than 10 coins).
Nice.

Something is wrong with the calculation, since if I put $30 per day into a DCA calculator (https://newhedge.io/bitcoin/dollar-cost-averaging-calculator), I get nearly $88k invested and nearly 5.9 BTC.. so the numbers do not quite add up, even though 5.9 BTC is good amount of accumulated BTC from an $88k investment over 8-ish years.
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December 07, 2025, 04:26:24 AM

I remember a discussion here about the "poverty" level income.
I, somewhat provocatively, said that the line is at about $140K/year, at least in some cities.
This was based in part on this:
https://www.taxesforexpats.com/articles/news/trump-proposes-eliminating-income-taxes-for-americans-earning-under-150-000.html

Many disagreed, but now there is a substack post by Michael Green that has gone viral:
https://www.yesigiveafig.com/p/part-1-my-life-is-a-lie

It's an eye-opener, i kid you not.

Quote
When you run the net-income numbers, a family earning $100,000 is effectively in a worse monthly financial position than a family earning $40,000.

Based on an abstract family in NJ,  Shocked.

Quote
I wanted to see what would happen if I ignored the official stats and simply calculated the cost of existing. I built a Basic Needs budget for a family of four (two earners, two kids). No vacations, no Netflix, no luxury. Just the “Participation Tickets” required to hold a job and raise kids in 2024.

Using conservative, national-average data:

Childcare: $32,773

Housing: $23,267

Food: $14,717

Transportation: $14,828

Healthcare: $10,567

Other essentials: $21,857

Required net income: $118,009

Add federal, state, and FICA taxes of roughly $18,500, and you arrive at a required gross income of $136,500.
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December 07, 2025, 05:01:21 AM
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That's funny, because when i try to "build" a inner vision of a close individual, they are always looking like comic representations, with constantly morphing faces, in dim light, very 2D, like printed on cardboard. They never look like they'd look to my eye IRL. But i had the ability to remember everything i had ever read under hyperfocus. I lost that, though, while psychologists say my aging brain needs mostly all the power to stay "high functioning", and it also quite feels that way.


That's interesting. My internal vision though is zero. Nothing. Black. Zip. I don't even see anything in my dreams. Almost ever. I can count the number of times that I've seen something in my dreams on one hand. And every time I woke up in a cold sweat, hyperventilating. Lol

 I remember discussing aphantasia with you... I think we talked about visualizing an apple.  I don't see really great images of objects in my mind when I try but then if I think of a person I know who I haven't seen for some time, I can visualize the face quite clearly but then it's usually the name that escapes me.  Recalling the name can take days and it usually pops into my head unexpectedly... I try not to blurt it out if in public.
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December 07, 2025, 07:30:03 AM


That's funny, because when i try to "build" a inner vision of a close individual, they are always looking like comic representations, with constantly morphing faces, in dim light, very 2D, like printed on cardboard. They never look like they'd look to my eye IRL. But i had the ability to remember everything i had ever read under hyperfocus. I lost that, though, while psychologists say my aging brain needs mostly all the power to stay "high functioning", and it also quite feels that way.


That's interesting. My internal vision though is zero. Nothing. Black. Zip. I don't even see anything in my dreams. Almost ever. I can count the number of times that I've seen something in my dreams on one hand. And every time I woke up in a cold sweat, hyperventilating. Lol

That's a very interesting topic. I am similar to @cAPSLOCK, so the topic is intriguing to me.
Interestingly, I don't feel any deficiency at all (don't miss it) and to me it helped to study some abstract concepts without a need for visualization.

The absence of the "mind's eye" in a small % of individuals is called 'aphantasia' and it first came to focus as late as 2015 when one of the first serious research paper was published on it (initially it was described as early as 1880).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aphantasia

Quote
Many people were shocked to learn that their own ability or inability to visualize objects was not universal.

In short; if someone asks to imagine an apple with closed eyes, some people see a nice jucy apple, colored and everything, some see a sketch and some "see" nothing. The vision was fine in all tested individuals.

True "aphantasics" are close to 2-4 % of the population (depending on the extent of it, maybe just 1% for full aphantasics) and yes, they sometimes don't "see" dreams as well, but not in all cases.

AI:
Quote
While the general population has about 2-4% aphantasia, a significant portion of people with aphantasia (
over 20%) work in science, computing, or math, suggesting a higher concentration than average in STEM fields, possibly due to strengths in processing complex, abstract information rather than mental imagery.

Sometimes, I think that this is a protective brain property...for example if the brain "sees" some nightmares, perhaps shutting down the "mind's eye" is a way to escape this.

I had a friend in grad school who was an exact opposite-he had hyperphantasia and said that he basically had two full life's: one during the day time and another during sleep where he had adventures every night with color, interesting themes, etc, like a movie. I was a bit jealous about this aspect of it as I typically don't recall dreams, with a few interesting exceptions.

David Hume springs to mind.

A relevant, interesting video:

YouTube — Alex O'Connor - Why ChatGPT Can't Draw a Full Glass of Wine
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December 07, 2025, 07:41:17 AM

Divide between seminary and the reasoning skeptics.

For all the right reasons, obviously.

There is only a fine line between genius and insanity.

One which is supported by proper ethics.

Ethics that are based on self knowledge, always shine superior to pretence.

For, the world is just an eidetic appearance on awareness.

The seer remains forever detached. From the phenomenal.
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December 07, 2025, 08:45:19 AM

I remember a discussion here about the "poverty" level income.
I, somewhat provocatively, said that the line is at about $140K/year, at least in some cities.
This was based in part on this:
https://www.taxesforexpats.com/articles/news/trump-proposes-eliminating-income-taxes-for-americans-earning-under-150-000.html

Many disagreed, but now there is a substack post by Michael Green that has gone viral:
https://www.yesigiveafig.com/p/part-1-my-life-is-a-lie

It's an eye-opener, i kid you not.

Quote
When you run the net-income numbers, a family earning $100,000 is effectively in a worse monthly financial position than a family earning $40,000.

Based on an abstract family in NJ,  Shocked.

Quote
I wanted to see what would happen if I ignored the official stats and simply calculated the cost of existing. I built a Basic Needs budget for a family of four (two earners, two kids). No vacations, no Netflix, no luxury. Just the “Participation Tickets” required to hold a job and raise kids in 2024.

Using conservative, national-average data:

Childcare: $32,773

Housing: $23,267

Food: $14,717

Transportation: $14,828

Healthcare: $10,567

Other essentials: $21,857

Required net income: $118,009

Add federal, state, and FICA taxes of roughly $18,500, and you arrive at a required gross income of $136,500.

too low on health cost but yeah fairly close to the truth.

and down the road college cost is high.

and trump is killing the best paying 4 year degree there is , nursing.
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December 07, 2025, 10:36:55 AM


That's funny, because when i try to "build" a inner vision of a close individual, they are always looking like comic representations, with constantly morphing faces, in dim light, very 2D, like printed on cardboard. They never look like they'd look to my eye IRL. But i had the ability to remember everything i had ever read under hyperfocus. I lost that, though, while psychologists say my aging brain needs mostly all the power to stay "high functioning", and it also quite feels that way.


That's interesting. My internal vision though is zero. Nothing. Black. Zip. I don't even see anything in my dreams. Almost ever. I can count the number of times that I've seen something in my dreams on one hand. And every time I woke up in a cold sweat, hyperventilating. Lol

That's a very interesting topic. I am similar to @cAPSLOCK, so the topic is intriguing to me.
Interestingly, I don't feel any deficiency at all (don't miss it) and to me it helped to study some abstract concepts without a need for visualization.

The absence of the "mind's eye" in a small % of individuals is called 'aphantasia' and it first came to focus as late as 2015 when one of the first serious research paper was published on it (initially it was described as early as 1880).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aphantasia

Quote
Many people were shocked to learn that their own ability or inability to visualize objects was not universal.

In short; if someone asks to imagine an apple with closed eyes, some people see a nice jucy apple, colored and everything, some see a sketch and some "see" nothing. The vision was fine in all tested individuals.

True "aphantasics" are close to 2-4 % of the population (depending on the extent of it, maybe just 1% for full aphantasics) and yes, they sometimes don't "see" dreams as well, but not in all cases.

AI:
Quote
While the general population has about 2-4% aphantasia, a significant portion of people with aphantasia (
over 20%) work in science, computing, or math, suggesting a higher concentration than average in STEM fields, possibly due to strengths in processing complex, abstract information rather than mental imagery.

Sometimes, I think that this is a protective brain property...for example if the brain "sees" some nightmares, perhaps shutting down the "mind's eye" is a way to escape this.

I had a friend in grad school who was an exact opposite-he had hyperphantasia and said that he basically had two full life's: one during the day time and another during sleep where he had adventures every night with color, interesting themes, etc, like a movie. I was a bit jealous about this aspect of it as I typically don't recall dreams, with a few interesting exceptions.

David Hume springs to mind.

A relevant, interesting video:

YouTube — Alex O'Connor - Why ChatGPT Can't Draw a Full Glass of Wine

interesting.

I see dreams
I can occasionally fuck with them as I realize they are dreams.

But if I close my eyes and picture an object I see nothing but dots.

which is what I see if I close my eyes and make no effort to picture something.
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December 07, 2025, 11:24:05 AM
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That's funny, because when i try to "build" a inner vision of a close individual, they are always looking like comic representations, with constantly morphing faces, in dim light, very 2D, like printed on cardboard. They never look like they'd look to my eye IRL. But i had the ability to remember everything i had ever read under hyperfocus. I lost that, though, while psychologists say my aging brain needs mostly all the power to stay "high functioning", and it also quite feels that way.


That's interesting. My internal vision though is zero. Nothing. Black. Zip. I don't even see anything in my dreams. Almost ever. I can count the number of times that I've seen something in my dreams on one hand. And every time I woke up in a cold sweat, hyperventilating. Lol

That's a very interesting topic. I am similar to @cAPSLOCK, so the topic is intriguing to me.
Interestingly, I don't feel any deficiency at all (don't miss it) and to me it helped to study some abstract concepts without a need for visualization.

The absence of the "mind's eye" in a small % of individuals is called 'aphantasia' and it first came to focus as late as 2015 when one of the first serious research paper was published on it (initially it was described as early as 1880).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aphantasia

Quote
Many people were shocked to learn that their own ability or inability to visualize objects was not universal.

In short; if someone asks to imagine an apple with closed eyes, some people see a nice jucy apple, colored and everything, some see a sketch and some "see" nothing. The vision was fine in all tested individuals.

True "aphantasics" are close to 2-4 % of the population (depending on the extent of it, maybe just 1% for full aphantasics) and yes, they sometimes don't "see" dreams as well, but not in all cases.

AI:
Quote
While the general population has about 2-4% aphantasia, a significant portion of people with aphantasia (
over 20%) work in science, computing, or math, suggesting a higher concentration than average in STEM fields, possibly due to strengths in processing complex, abstract information rather than mental imagery.

Sometimes, I think that this is a protective brain property...for example if the brain "sees" some nightmares, perhaps shutting down the "mind's eye" is a way to escape this.

I had a friend in grad school who was an exact opposite-he had hyperphantasia and said that he basically had two full life's: one during the day time and another during sleep where he had adventures every night with color, interesting themes, etc, like a movie. I was a bit jealous about this aspect of it as I typically don't recall dreams, with a few interesting exceptions.

David Hume springs to mind.

A relevant, interesting video:

YouTube — Alex O'Connor - Why ChatGPT Can't Draw a Full Glass of Wine

interesting.

I see dreams
I can occasionally fuck with them as I realize they are dreams.

But if I close my eyes and picture an object I see nothing but dots.

which is what I see if I close my eyes and make no effort to picture something.

I see dreams too. Often intricate dreams, complex enough to be movie scripts. Usually horror, mystery, and also drama, often dealing with loss, and an overwhelming desire and struggle to be/reach/do something.

When I close my eyes and picture an object, I can visualize the object, as if I was looking at it with my eyes. I can "see" forms, shapes, colors, and I can also "hear" sounds, "smell" odors and "feel" touches.

OK, maybe you're trying to literally use your shut eyes to see. If I do this, I also see dots, in the form of noise. This is similar to the noise in a film or digital camera in low/no light. But, try to picture something, and "see" it with your brain. I'm guessing that most people can "see" like this. But there are some who can't (aphantasia).
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That's funny, because when i try to "build" a inner vision of a close individual, they are always looking like comic representations, with constantly morphing faces, in dim light, very 2D, like printed on cardboard. They never look like they'd look to my eye IRL. But i had the ability to remember everything i had ever read under hyperfocus. I lost that, though, while psychologists say my aging brain needs mostly all the power to stay "high functioning", and it also quite feels that way.


That's interesting. My internal vision though is zero. Nothing. Black. Zip. I don't even see anything in my dreams. Almost ever. I can count the number of times that I've seen something in my dreams on one hand. And every time I woke up in a cold sweat, hyperventilating. Lol

That's a very interesting topic. I am similar to @cAPSLOCK, so the topic is intriguing to me.
Interestingly, I don't feel any deficiency at all (don't miss it) and to me it helped to study some abstract concepts without a need for visualization.

The absence of the "mind's eye" in a small % of individuals is called 'aphantasia' and it first came to focus as late as 2015 when one of the first serious research paper was published on it (initially it was described as early as 1880).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aphantasia

Quote
Many people were shocked to learn that their own ability or inability to visualize objects was not universal.

In short; if someone asks to imagine an apple with closed eyes, some people see a nice jucy apple, colored and everything, some see a sketch and some "see" nothing. The vision was fine in all tested individuals.

True "aphantasics" are close to 2-4 % of the population (depending on the extent of it, maybe just 1% for full aphantasics) and yes, they sometimes don't "see" dreams as well, but not in all cases.

AI:
Quote
While the general population has about 2-4% aphantasia, a significant portion of people with aphantasia (
over 20%) work in science, computing, or math, suggesting a higher concentration than average in STEM fields, possibly due to strengths in processing complex, abstract information rather than mental imagery.

Sometimes, I think that this is a protective brain property...for example if the brain "sees" some nightmares, perhaps shutting down the "mind's eye" is a way to escape this.

I had a friend in grad school who was an exact opposite-he had hyperphantasia and said that he basically had two full life's: one during the day time and another during sleep where he had adventures every night with color, interesting themes, etc, like a movie. I was a bit jealous about this aspect of it as I typically don't recall dreams, with a few interesting exceptions.

David Hume springs to mind.

A relevant, interesting video:

YouTube — Alex O'Connor - Why ChatGPT Can't Draw a Full Glass of Wine

interesting.

I see dreams
I can occasionally fuck with them as I realize they are dreams.

But if I close my eyes and picture an object I see nothing but dots.

which is what I see if I close my eyes and make no effort to picture something.

I see dreams too. Often intricate dreams, complex enough to be movie scripts. Usually horror, mystery, and also drama, often dealing with loss, and an overwhelming desire and struggle to be/reach/do something.

When I close my eyes and picture an object, I can visualize the object, as if I was looking at it with my eyes. I can "see" forms, shapes, colors, and I can also "hear" sounds, "smell" odors and "feel" touches.

OK, maybe you're trying to literally use your shut eyes to see. If I do this, I also see dots, in the form of noise. This is similar to the noise in a film or digital camera in low/no light. But, try to picture something, and "see" it with your brain. I'm guessing that most people can "see" like this. But there are some who can't (aphantasia).

same here, i can visualize faces and i can rotate fairly complex 3D objects with texture/color in my head while visualizing it. etc

but cant remember peoples names for crap though
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