Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[dEBRUYNE]

2014 = super shit
2015 = slow steady rise out of the swamp
2016 = new highs again, but not done frantically, just gently
end of 2016 = block reward halves, sparks new 5k-10k territory.

Is one possible outcome.....

Block reward already halves in may 2016, so maybe we will reach moon a bit earlier  

[spooderman]

No block reward probably wont be until August 2016.

[janos666]

And dropping again..

It feels like it is going up while it isn't. That can't be good.

[NotLambchop]

...some big players are accumulating while these current market prices are being manipulated downward...

Mysterious creatures, them...

"'You may seek it with thimbles—and seek it with care;
   You may hunt it with forks and hope;
You may threaten its life with a railway-share;
   You may charm it with smiles and soap—'"

Yes:  You are so creative NOT not pork.  I hope that they are paying you well for all your efforts to distract and attempt at belittling the ideas of others.    

Bro, that's not mine--written a while ago by Lewis Carroll.
Consider reading more and writing less.

Lorem ipsum dolor NOT amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.

FTFY
*Whoever is paying you is paying you by the word

[dEBRUYNE]

No block reward probably wont be until August 2016.

There was a post about the subject on reddit yesterday: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2muc31/next_block_reward_halving_date_is_now_estimated/

[bitebits]

Miners are NOT dumping bitcoin.  Miners are generally bullish about bitcoin and generally holders.

Is there any evidence for that claim (other than some big miners saying so)?

Surely some miners are making such statements, and you should already realize that you do NOT need a lot of coins in order to manipulate prices downward.  If someone has 10k coins, then s/he it can accomplish a lot of BTC price manipulation. 

Miners dumping is NOT a logical conclusion,

In short, the answer is "no, there is no evidence that miners are holding".

There is Jorge, and you know it:
http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20141020/pdf/42t0mqrygyzd74.pdf

However, because of investments in mining equipment and the fact that the firm is holding a significant portion of its mined bitcoin, the company posted an operating loss of $261,000.

Despite the figures, the company is downplaying the effect of short-term price fluctuations on its business and still maintains its performance is "robust".

Unlike most bitcoin companies, Digital CC Limited is a public company, trading on the Australian Securities Exchange (ASX) as 'digitalBTC'. This makes it is the only major mining operation with an obligation to provide such information, giving outsiders a rare glimpse into the inner working of a bitcoin mining company.

[MrPiggles]

Miners are NOT dumping bitcoin.  Miners are generally bullish about bitcoin and generally holders.

Is there any evidence for that claim (other than some big miners saying so)?

Surely some miners are making such statements, and you should already realize that you do NOT need a lot of coins in order to manipulate prices downward.  If someone has 10k coins, then s/he it can accomplish a lot of BTC price manipulation. 

Miners dumping is NOT a logical conclusion,

In short, the answer is "no, there is no evidence that miners are holding".

There is Jorge, and you know it:
http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20141020/pdf/42t0mqrygyzd74.pdf

However, because of investments in mining equipment and the fact that the firm is holding a significant portion of its mined bitcoin, the company posted an operating loss of $261,000.

Despite the figures, the company is downplaying the effect of short-term price fluctuations on its business and still maintains its performance is "robust".

Unlike most bitcoin companies, Digital CC Limited is a public company, trading on the Australian Securities Exchange (ASX) as 'digitalBTC'. This makes it is the only major mining operation with an obligation to provide such information, giving outsiders a rare glimpse into the inner working of a bitcoin mining company.

Jorge is just a dumbass troll who tells lies he's easily caught out on, ignore him.

I just had dinner cooked by Heston Blumenthal, it was rather good. The meatfruit was an especially nice touch.

<paid for with bitcoin, I might add.

[JorgeStolfi]

In short, the answer is "no, there is no evidence that miners are holding".

There is Jorge, and you know it:
http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20141020/pdf/42t0mqrygyzd74.pdf

I stand corrected. By that document, that company has mined ~13300 BTC to date, and is holding ~8500, so it has dumped only ~4800, or about 1/3.

EDIT: Actually they claim to have sold ~6200 on the table.  Whatever.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[empowering]

Miners are NOT dumping bitcoin.  Miners are generally bullish about bitcoin and generally holders.

Is there any evidence for that claim (other than some big miners saying so)?

Surely some miners are making such statements, and you should already realize that you do NOT need a lot of coins in order to manipulate prices downward.  If someone has 10k coins, then s/he it can accomplish a lot of BTC price manipulation. 

Miners dumping is NOT a logical conclusion,

In short, the answer is "no, there is no evidence that miners are holding".

There is Jorge, and you know it:
http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20141020/pdf/42t0mqrygyzd74.pdf

However, because of investments in mining equipment and the fact that the firm is holding a significant portion of its mined bitcoin, the company posted an operating loss of $261,000.

Despite the figures, the company is downplaying the effect of short-term price fluctuations on its business and still maintains its performance is "robust".

Unlike most bitcoin companies, Digital CC Limited is a public company, trading on the Australian Securities Exchange (ASX) as 'digitalBTC'. This makes it is the only major mining operation with an obligation to provide such information, giving outsiders a rare glimpse into the inner working of a bitcoin mining company.

Jorge is just a dumbass troll who tells lies he's easily caught out on, ignore him.

I just had dinner cooked by Heston Blumenthal, it was rather good. The meatfruit was an especially nice touch.

<paid for with bitcoin, I might add.

Never had a bad meal at any of Heston Blumenhells restaurants...  Wait when you say paid for with Bitcoin, you mean Bitcoin profits?  Or with actual bits? 

[redsn0w]

However , true story :

[conspirosphere.tk]

IMO it's no use educating Joe Public about the great wonders of Bitcoin. Joe Public is perfectly content with his credit card, bank account, PayPal, etc.

wait that Joe Public get overtaxed a bit more and then Cypro-ized and someone could go full crypto.

[brg444]

In short, the answer is "no, there is no evidence that miners are holding".

There is Jorge, and you know it:
http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20141020/pdf/42t0mqrygyzd74.pdf

I stand corrected. By that document, that company has mined ~13300 BTC to date, and is holding ~8500, so it has dumped only ~4800, or about 1/3.

EDIT: Actually they claim to have sold ~6200 on the table.  Whatever.

Vavilov told CoinDesk that it decided not to tap its bitcoin reserves as it remains bullish on the long-term value of bitcoin.

"We believe in the long-term perspective [the price of bitcoin] will grow and we decided to not to sell [our bitcoin] at such a low price," Vavilov added.

http://www.coindesk.com/bitfury-raises-20-million-asic-development-mining-output/

Bitfury is not selling.

Terpin polled the crowd by asking how many sell a certain percentage of their bitcoins for fiat currencies like the dollar. One only miner raised their hand when Terpin asked if they sold 100% of their bitcoin for dollars, and about one-third of the crowd indicated that they don’t sell any of their generated bitcoins.

http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-mining-las-vegas-convention/

The folks at Hashers United conference were not selling

[DeadCoin]

just more proof that Jorge is just a pathetic clueless troll who everyone should have on ignore by now. He loves to completely ignore facts and just keep spouting the same old troll shit. Quite sad and pathetic really.

That guy is among the most knowledgeable and most sane members in here.

[JorgeStolfi]

http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20141020/pdf/42t0mqrygyzd74.pdf

I stand corrected. By that document, that company has mined ~13300 BTC to date, and is holding ~8500, so it has dumped only ~4800, or about 1/3.

EDIT: Actually they claim to have sold ~6200 on the table.  Whatever.

Vavilov told CoinDesk that it decided not to tap its bitcoin reserves as it remains bullish on the long-term value of bitcoin.

"We believe in the long-term perspective [the price of bitcoin] will grow and we decided to not to sell [our bitcoin] at such a low price," Vavilov added.

But they did sell more (up to 50% of mined amount) when the price was a bit higher.

http://www.coindesk.com/bitfury-raises-20-million-asic-development-mining-output/

Bitfury is not selling.

BitFury founder and CEO Valery Vavilov indicated that the new funding will allow the company to complete production of its 28nm ASIC chip without selling the reserve bitcoins it has mined from its three industrial-scale data centres.

Note that, for digitalBTC, "reserve bitcoins" means "the bitcoins that we did not sell yet". Does it mean the same for BitFury?

Terpin polled the crowd by asking how many sell a certain percentage of their bitcoins for fiat currencies like the dollar. One only miner raised their hand when Terpin asked if they sold 100% of their bitcoin for dollars, and about one-third of the crowd indicated that they don’t sell any of their generated bitcoins.

http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-mining-las-vegas-convention/

So 1 miner sold 100%, 1/3 of the miners sold 0%.  What about the other 2/3?

The folks at Hashers United conference were not selling

Without an official balance like that of digitalBTC, I don't know whether to trust these statements.  Obviously it is their interest to say that they believe that the price will go up, hence they are holding.  Anyway, like the folks at digitalBTC, they may be only hoping/waiting for the price to rise again to sell.

So the data seems to say that miners are selling at least a sizable fraction of their mined bitcoins.

[conspirosphere.tk]

That guy is among the most knowledgeable and most sane members in here.

if he's happy with his fiat he can keep his fiat. But since fiat keeps failing since day 1, there is that little insanity-thing about keeping doing the same expecting a different result.

[brg444]

http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20141020/pdf/42t0mqrygyzd74.pdf

I stand corrected. By that document, that company has mined ~13300 BTC to date, and is holding ~8500, so it has dumped only ~4800, or about 1/3.

EDIT: Actually they claim to have sold ~6200 on the table.  Whatever.

Vavilov told CoinDesk that it decided not to tap its bitcoin reserves as it remains bullish on the long-term value of bitcoin.

"We believe in the long-term perspective [the price of bitcoin] will grow and we decided to not to sell [our bitcoin] at such a low price," Vavilov added.

But they did sell more (up to 50% of mined amount) when the price was a bit higher.

http://www.coindesk.com/bitfury-raises-20-million-asic-development-mining-output/

Bitfury is not selling.

BitFury founder and CEO Valery Vavilov indicated that the new funding will allow the company to complete production of its 28nm ASIC chip without selling the reserve bitcoins it has mined from its three industrial-scale data centres.

Note that, for digitalBTC, "reserve bitcoins" means "the bitcoins that we did not sell yet". Does it mean the same for BitFury?

Terpin polled the crowd by asking how many sell a certain percentage of their bitcoins for fiat currencies like the dollar. One only miner raised their hand when Terpin asked if they sold 100% of their bitcoin for dollars, and about one-third of the crowd indicated that they don’t sell any of their generated bitcoins.

http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-mining-las-vegas-convention/

So 1 miner sold 100%, 1/3 of the miners sold 0%.  What about the other 2/3?

The folks at Hashers United conference were not selling

Without an official balance like that of digitalBTC, I don't know whether to trust these statements.  Obviously it is their interest to say that they believe that the price will go up, hence they are holding.  Anyway, like the folks at digitalBTC, they may be only hoping/waiting for the price to rise again to sell.

So the data seems to say that miners are selling at least a sizable fraction of their mined bitcoins.

Obviously it is in your best interest they are selling and that your interpretation of clear-cut counter-indicative comments and official releases is the correct one.

I don't know whether to trust these people or JorgeStolfi from bitcointalk.org.

Bottom line is you're wrong

In short, the answer is "no, there is no evidence that miners are holding".

[DeadCoin]

That guy is among the most knowledgeable and most sane members in here.

if he's happy with his fiat he can keep his fiat. But since fiat keeps failing since day 1, there is that little insanity-thing about keeping doing the same expecting a different result.

Fiat or no fiat, people are always the same. They always try to abuse things and have profit to the maximum. Just human nature, believing bitcoin is any different is insanity.

[NotLambchop]

However , true story :

Let me explain what the difference is:
Money is sent via Western Union when cash is needed immediately.  This money is not sent for stuff like online purchases, otherwise the sender could simply make the purchase and have it shipped to a different address.

Sending Bitcoin is currently extremely cheap, because the miners are subsidised by 10% yearly inflation, AKA "block rewards" (not TX fees).  As block rewards diminish to zero over time, the miners will be forced to rely on TX fees.
Today, Bitcoin is paying 10% of its market cap to maintain the network--that's how many coins are mined in a year.  Once the block rewards approach zero, the transaction fees would have to represent ~10% of Bitcoin's market cap to maintain today's network security.  Because, as Satoshi has pointed out, the cost of mining should approach the price of coins mined.

Imagine that?  Burning 10% of world's wealth YEARLY being paid in TX fees?  

But that's a tangent.  The problem is, after receiving your bitcoin, it still must be converted to cash you can actually spend locally

[janos666]

Weekend dump incoming. See you at 300 within 72 hours.

Did you pre-ordered it?