Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

There's lots of talk about cheap Bitcoins

So what USD Value do you think a Bitcoin would be cheap ?

Below average mining price, whatever price that may be.
We soon may find out however.

The value of something is not how much it costs to produce.

The value of something is exactly what someone is willing to pay.

The world was willing to pay 80$ a barrel of oil because that was the lowest price offered. Now the Saudis are offering it cheaper (because they produce it cheaper) and the world is willing to pay 60$. Obviously value is some combination of both.

So the question becomes: who will be able to produce the cheapest coins, and if the world will be willing to pay that price when it hits?

[Davyd05]

I feel Rickrolled.  
You also seemingly missed my question:

...
BTW, remind me how many euro had to be in the slave's account to start losing money?  Was it 100,000.00 (one hundred thousand) Euro?

I don't understand. You are saying that if I have a large amount of liquid assets I should expect them to be stolen by bankers or governments? (One in the same, really)

Or are you just saying that as a slave with less than 100,000 that I should just shut up and be happy about my situation?

Or be a small it business run out of Cyprus

[NewLiberty]

There's lots of talk about cheap Bitcoins

So what USD Value do you think a Bitcoin would be cheap ?

Below average mining price, whatever price that may be.
We soon may find out however.

The value of something is not how much it costs to produce.

The value of something is exactly what someone is willing to pay.

The world was willing to pay 80$ a barrel of oil because that was the lowest price offered. Now the Saudis are offering it cheaper (because they produce it cheaper) and the world is willing to pay 60$. Obviously value is some combination of both.

So the question becomes: who will be able to produce the cheapest coins, and if the world will be willing to pay that price when it hits?

The production rate is pretty well determined from the outset.  So it may not be the production that matters so much.... Say if Karpales may find another 600K bitcoin somewhere in an "old format wallet" after all the BK issues are resolved.

[shmadz]

There's lots of talk about cheap Bitcoins

So what USD Value do you think a Bitcoin would be cheap ?

Below average mining price, whatever price that may be.
We soon may find out however.

The value of something is not how much it costs to produce.

The value of something is exactly what someone is willing to pay.

The world was willing to pay 80$ a barrel of oil because that was the lowest price offered. Now the Saudis are offering it cheaper (because they produce it cheaper) and the world is willing to pay 60$. Obviously value is some combination of both.

So the question becomes: who will be able to produce the cheapest coins, and if the world will be willing to pay that price when it hits?

I removed my statement because it was redundant.

There is a real need for oil, production is currently outpacing demand, thus the price adjusts.

There is also an argument to be made that there is a demand for a legitimate alternative to the current fiat system of money.

Bitcoin may or may not be the answer, but at some point, something has to give.

[NotLambchop]

I feel Rickrolled.  
You also seemingly missed my question:

...
BTW, remind me how many euro had to be in the slave's account to start losing money?  Was it 100,000.00 (one hundred thousand) Euro?

I don't understand. You are saying that if I have a large amount of liquid assets I should expect them to be stolen by bankers or governments?...

No, I'm merely suggesting that if you have over 100,000 euro in the bank, you're doing alright for a slave.  Some might even say relatively well.
I've personally met free men with less, strange but true!
Won't lie tho, I have a hard time feeling pity for folks with over 100K in the bank.  I'd go so far as to say I don't.  Especially if they have the gall to call themselves "the slave class"

[pjviitas]

There's lots of talk about cheap Bitcoins

So what USD Value do you think a Bitcoin would be cheap ?

I know this is going to piss a lot of people off but I will regard Bitcoin to be 'cheap' when it hits about $20 a coin, of course it will still be cheap at $10 but that's irrelevant.

It will continue to work regardless of what the price is.

I know the relentless greed around here will not agree with the above, the world still needs dreamers though.

Value is a more a confidence game than anything else.

Something is only worth as much as someone is willing to pay for it.

With that being said, I am willing to pay 0.01USD for 1BTC because that is what it is worth to me.

There may be other people out there that feel differently but unless they can make a good justification as to why I should pay more than that I am going to sit on my fiat.

Just my 2 cents.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

There's lots of talk about cheap Bitcoins

So what USD Value do you think a Bitcoin would be cheap ?

Below average mining price, whatever price that may be.
We soon may find out however.

The value of something is not how much it costs to produce.

The value of something is exactly what someone is willing to pay.

The world was willing to pay 80$ a barrel of oil because that was the lowest price offered. Now the Saudis are offering it cheaper (because they produce it cheaper) and the world is willing to pay 60$. Obviously value is some combination of both.

So the question becomes: who will be able to produce the cheapest coins, and if the world will be willing to pay that price when it hits?

The production rate is pretty well determined from the outset.  So it may not be the production that matters so much.... Say if Karpales may find another 600K bitcoin somewhere in an "old format wallet" after all the BK issues are resolved.

So
1.The rate of production is inelastic,
2. but the cost at which the coins are mined will fluctuate along with the difficulty?

[Davyd05]

There's lots of talk about cheap Bitcoins

So what USD Value do you think a Bitcoin would be cheap ?

I know this is going to piss a lot of people off but I will regard Bitcoin to be 'cheap' when it hits about $20 a coin, of course it will still be cheap at $10 but that's irrelevant.

It will continue to work regardless of what the price is.

I know the relentless greed around here will not agree with the above, the world still needs dreamers though.

Value is a more a confidence game than anything else.

Something is only worth as much as someone is willing to pay for it.

With that being said, I am willing to pay 0.01USD for 1BTC because that is what it is worth to me.

There may be other people out there that feel differently but unless they can make a good justification as to why I should pay more than that I am going to sit on my fiat.

Just my 2 cents.

grab a time Machine, and hop in it you can head back to buy off gox on the date 2010 -10 -03 until then stop talking pure nonsense edit begins: about your personal valuation.

How can we truly know what a cheap coin is? especially when this thing is barely adopted? each time you make a new ath .. and hold around the old ath following corrections in the market the cheap price has totally changed for those who sell it all out during a peak.

I try to imagine a situation that would suit your perspective cheap prices, maybe a major speculator holding something larger than that bearwhales 30k. This speculators is just gonna sneak it all on too multiple exchanges and dump us back to 2010 or 2012-2013 levels. IMO if that happens we'll have lots of signals of the impending doom. Is it purely your fear of the speculators? that makes you think were just gonna dump into the ground?

[Richy_T]

It's the too-much-stuffing-and-wine bump

[Richy_T]

So the question becomes: who will be able to produce the cheapest coins, and if the world will be willing to pay that price when it hits?

Tricky question because if people aren't willing to pay it, the price goes down, miners switch off their gear and bitcoins become cheaper to produce.

He's a wily one, that Mr Satoshi.

[noobtrader]

just bought @ 320 


rises bitcorn rises to the fair price 

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

So the question becomes: who will be able to produce the cheapest coins, and if the world will be willing to pay that price when it hits?

Tricky question because if people aren't willing to pay it, the price goes down, miners switch off their gear and bitcoins become cheaper to produce.

He's a wily one, that Mr Satoshi.

Then the difficulty goes down, and the farms start back up and flood the market with even more cheap coins. Is this a vicious circle?

[Richy_T]

With that being said, I am willing to pay 0.01USD for 1BTC because that is what it is worth to me.

So if I were to offer you 10BTC at, say $5 a pop, you'd send me packing?

[shmadz]

I feel Rickrolled.  
You also seemingly missed my question:

...
BTW, remind me how many euro had to be in the slave's account to start losing money?  Was it 100,000.00 (one hundred thousand) Euro?

I don't understand. You are saying that if I have a large amount of liquid assets I should expect them to be stolen by bankers or governments?...

No, I'm merely suggesting that if you have over 100,000 euro in the bank, you're doing alright for a slave.  Some might even say relatively well.
I've personally met free men with less, strange but true!
Won't lie tho, I have a hard time feeling pity for folks with over 100K in the bank.  I'd go so far as to say I don't.  Especially if they have the gall to call themselves "the slave class"

Those fiat dollars in the bank are merely the chains that bind the slaves.

Or so I've been taught to believe by my Beneficent Reptilian Overlords...

[Richy_T]

So the question becomes: who will be able to produce the cheapest coins, and if the world will be willing to pay that price when it hits?

Tricky question because if people aren't willing to pay it, the price goes down, miners switch off their gear and bitcoins become cheaper to produce.

He's a wily one, that Mr Satoshi.

Then the difficulty goes down, and the farms start back up and flood the market with even more cheap coins. Is this a vicious circle?

No, it's called a negative feedback loop and should probably respond like any other damped oscillation.



You'll see this same thing in Bitcoin price changes too. Not surprising since the mechanisms are essentially the same.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

So the question becomes: who will be able to produce the cheapest coins, and if the world will be willing to pay that price when it hits?

Tricky question because if people aren't willing to pay it, the price goes down, miners switch off their gear and bitcoins become cheaper to produce.

He's a wily one, that Mr Satoshi.

Then the difficulty goes down, and the farms start back up and flood the market with even more cheap coins. Is this a vicious circle?

No, it's called a negative feedback loop and should probably respond like any other damped oscillation.

Well this may seem like a silly question but how do other damped oscillations respond In a downwardly fashion?

[Richy_T]

Well this may seem like a silly question but how do other damped oscillations respond In a downwardly fashion?

Just flip the chart top-to-bottom in your mind. The point is that in response to a change in inputs, the value will attempt to adjust to a new level, overshoot (not always. Google over-damped and critical damping) and in a series of decreasing oscillations settle at the new value. Then the inputs change again and it happens all over.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Well this may seem like a silly question but how do other damped oscillations respond In a downwardly fashion?

Just flip the chart top-to-bottom in your mind. The point is that in response to a change in inputs, the value will attempt to adjust to a new level, overshoot (not always. Google over-damped and critical damping) and in a series of decreasing oscillations settle at the new value. Then the inputs change again and it happens all over.

I'll look into it, thanks

[noobtrader]

So the question becomes: who will be able to produce the cheapest coins, and if the world will be willing to pay that price when it hits?

Tricky question because if people aren't willing to pay it, the price goes down, miners switch off their gear and bitcoins become cheaper to produce.

He's a wily one, that Mr Satoshi.

Then the difficulty goes down, and the farms start back up and flood the market with even more cheap coins. Is this a vicious circle?

No, it's called a negative feedback loop and should probably respond like any other damped oscillation.

Well this may seem like a silly question but how do other damped oscillations respond In a downwardly fashion?

i guess its the same, except the blue line drop each period of time and price oscilate around it


EDIT :: if we look at the graph assume that 1100 is the top and 270 is the bottom, can we safely assume that 350 is the desired price range

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation