Saving bitcoins

[deisik]

If I decided to save bitcoins in bank, how will deposit rate be changed compared to dollar or other currencies? Will it have much lower percent?

That is basically for the banks to define according to their terms and conditions. I cannot predict what might ensue from my current position but I can only speculate that the rate might be less or high compared to fiat currencies.

I think it depends on the rules of the bank due to the fact there is no bank in the world that accept deposit bitcoin? so of course there will not be people who know about these regulations

I don't think that banks will ever start accepting bitcoins in future as its an threat to them and its an tough competition to the banking system and they might start adopting blockchain technology in future but they will never support bitcoins for sure and when it comes to saving bitcoins then its better to save them in bitcoin wallet instead of saving in banks as you will get better results by selling them when price goes higher in future

The blockchain technology makes no sense apart from Bitcoin

Just like it makes no use for any centralized system, and a banking system is one such with a Central bank at the top or in the center of it. I have yest to see a valid proposal which could employ this technology in such a system and which wouldn't be sucking heavily in comparison with a centralized approach. Regarding regular banks accepting bitcoins, ultimately, it will be a matter of profits obtained versus expenses incurred once the banks are allowed to deal with Bitcoin (if it ever comes to that at all)

[deisik]

It doesn't sound good because it is against the core values of bitcoin. Bitcoin is a decentralised crypto currency which should remain free from any third party interference. Sender and receiver should be whole and sole authorities to involve in the transaction. I am not against bank or some institutions wishing to provide services against deposited funds but it should not be the main wallet to hold bitcoins

I tend to disagree with your position

In this case (i.e. in the case of Bitcoin banks) there is no third party whatsoever. When you buy things or pay for services with bitcoins, would you consider the seller as a third party? Obviously, not. But it is basically the same with a Bitcoin bank. You don't use it to transfer the money (since you can transfer bitcoin directly), you use the bank as an end-point of sorts. It is not an intermediary. You offer them bitcoins while they offer you percentage on your coins, as simple as it gets. Where is a third party here?

I respect everyone's opinion. The bank would not keep our funds with them (nothing wrong here) as they are supposed to pay interest to the fund depositors.

They will lend our funds to someone else (currently web wallet service providers are not doing this) so my funds will be in the hands of someone else so instead of trusting some single entity (like blockchain.info) I have to trust multiple people (borrowers of banks whom I don't even know). Bank would be third party in this case

As to me, this doesn't change anything in the end

They wouldn't be a third party in respect to you by any definition. Basically, they are one part or side (aka counterparty) in the contract between you, on the one side, and them, on the other. There is no third party in this case (apart from the Bitcoin blockchain itself). It doesn't matter what they do with your bitcoins later (if they do anything at all) and to whom they lend your money (if ever), this is irrelevant and inconsequential to the issue in question. Here's an example to better understand the matter. When you open a deposit account in a regular bank, the bank will obviously be your counterparty in the deposit agreement between you and them (I guess that should go without saying), but government which prints the money which you put in the bank will be a third party in this case since they can devalue the money at any moment (hence comes the idea of a third party risk)

Exactly,

Government = Me = Banks
Me = Banks = Bank's Borrowers


* It is a chain system whereas when I deposit money with web wallet service provider, it will be

Me (Depositor) = Web Wallet Service Provider (Holder) = Me (Controller)


* Whereas in Bank's Case,

Me (Depositor) = Banks (Holder & Controller) = Bank's Borrowers (Holder)


In first the case wallet service provider won't have any additional rights to control the funds (lend it to others) whereas, in bank's case, we are authorising banks to bring additional contractees in the contract

I'm really fascinated how people are sometimes desperately trying to defend a losing point instead of just accepting being wrong

You are not authorizing (or disauthorizing, for that matter) banks to lend your money to anyone. There are no such provisions in deposit contracts. Banks are free to do with your money anything they may want to do as long as they fulfill their obligations to return you your deposit at the end of the deposit term and pay interest monthly. It is the same with web wallets essentially, they promise you to return the money on your first call, but apart from that, they can do anything they may ever please to do with your coins. In neither of these cases, banks and web wallets are third parties. If you wish to continue claiming to the contrary, you may go on as long as feel inclined to, I don't mind

[Dudeperfect]

It doesn't sound good because it is against the core values of bitcoin. Bitcoin is a decentralised crypto currency which should remain free from any third party interference. Sender and receiver should be whole and sole authorities to involve in the transaction. I am not against bank or some institutions wishing to provide services against deposited funds but it should not be the main wallet to hold bitcoins

I tend to disagree with your position

In this case (i.e. in the case of Bitcoin banks) there is no third party whatsoever. When you buy things or pay for services with bitcoins, would you consider the seller as a third party? Obviously, not. But it is basically the same with a Bitcoin bank. You don't use it to transfer the money (since you can transfer bitcoin directly), you use the bank as an end-point of sorts. It is not an intermediary. You offer them bitcoins while they offer you percentage on your coins, as simple as it gets. Where is a third party here?

I respect everyone's opinion. The bank would not keep our funds with them (nothing wrong here) as they are supposed to pay interest to the fund depositors.

They will lend our funds to someone else (currently web wallet service providers are not doing this) so my funds will be in the hands of someone else so instead of trusting some single entity (like blockchain.info) I have to trust multiple people (borrowers of banks whom I don't even know). Bank would be third party in this case

As to me, this doesn't change anything in the end

They wouldn't be a third party in respect to you by any definition. Basically, they are one part or side (aka counterparty) in the contract between you, on the one side, and them, on the other. There is no third party in this case (apart from the Bitcoin blockchain itself). It doesn't matter what they do with your bitcoins later (if they do anything at all) and to whom they lend your money (if ever), this is irrelevant and inconsequential to the issue in question. Here's an example to better understand the matter. When you open a deposit account in a regular bank, the bank will obviously be your counterparty in the deposit agreement between you and them (I guess that should go without saying), but government which prints the money which you put in the bank will be a third party in this case since they can devalue the money at any moment (hence comes the idea of a third party risk)

Exactly,

Government = Me = Banks
Me = Banks = Bank's Borrowers


* It is a chain system whereas when I deposit money with web wallet service provider, it will be

Me (Depositor) = Web Wallet Service Provider (Holder) = Me (Controller)


* Whereas in Bank's Case,

Me (Depositor) = Banks (Holder & Controller) = Bank's Borrowers (Holder)


In first the case wallet service provider won't have any additional rights to control the funds (lend it to others) whereas, in bank's case, we are authorising banks to bring additional contractees in the contract

I'm really fascinated how people are sometimes desperately trying to defend a losing point instead of just accepting being wrong

You are not authorizing (or disauthorizing, for that matter) banks to lend your money to anyone. There are no such provisions in deposit contracts. Banks are free to do with your money anything they may want to do as long as they fulfill their obligations to return you your deposit at the end of the deposit term and pay interest monthly. It is the same with web wallets essentially, they promise you to return the money on your first call, but apart from that, they can do anything they may ever please to do with your coins. In neither of these cases, banks and web wallets are third parties. If you wish to continue claiming to the contrary, you may go on as long as feel inclined to, I don't mind

You are a Legendary member and thus you have way more experience and knowledge than me. I have no hesitation in accepting your seniority. However, I am not convinced for what you are trying to convey. This is a vast topic and I think we need expert's opinion and references to discuss and analyse this topic.

[Christian13]

That's a good question.  Due to the design of bitcoin, it is a bit difficult to "loan" them (remember that banking is effectively a loan where the bank pays you interest).

Bitcoins are not fiat, and therefore, can not be continuously printed.  Because of this, no one can guarantee to indefinitely keep paying out interest on loaned coins.  A horribly exaggerated example, just to make a point, is that if I somehow had 20,000,000 bitcoins in a bank, they could never pay me more than 1,000,000 total in interest just because of the limited supply.

Now, that's more on the theoretical side of things.  In practice, a major problem with loans in Bitcoin are the volatile price.  If the price rises suddenly, it could become more difficult to pay back interest; or alternatively if the price takes a heavy drop, the investor may lose money as what he is paid is less valuable now than it was at initial investment.

What a nice question.Saving bitcoin are good thing that you can because bitcoin has a different value so that the value of bitcoin will increase or decrease.Saving bitcoin in bank is not a good idea because  if you have a more bitcoin the bank can't handle it.If  you have more bitcoin and your try to save it to bank there will complain because they can't handle it and it will result a high interest.

[citywise2]

Bitcoin is hardly to be saved in a bank accept it is exchanged in a local currency of the land. This means that you must exchange bitcoin to the value of the local currency before you can make a deposit in the bank. i think bitcoin is mainly installed in the bitcoin wallet.

[deisik]

Government = Me = Banks
Me = Banks = Bank's Borrowers


* It is a chain system whereas when I deposit money with web wallet service provider, it will be

Me (Depositor) = Web Wallet Service Provider (Holder) = Me (Controller)


* Whereas in Bank's Case,

Me (Depositor) = Banks (Holder & Controller) = Bank's Borrowers (Holder)


In first the case wallet service provider won't have any additional rights to control the funds (lend it to others) whereas, in bank's case, we are authorising banks to bring additional contractees in the contract

I'm really fascinated how people are sometimes desperately trying to defend a losing point instead of just accepting being wrong

You are not authorizing (or disauthorizing, for that matter) banks to lend your money to anyone. There are no such provisions in deposit contracts. Banks are free to do with your money anything they may want to do as long as they fulfill their obligations to return you your deposit at the end of the deposit term and pay interest monthly. It is the same with web wallets essentially, they promise you to return the money on your first call, but apart from that, they can do anything they may ever please to do with your coins. In neither of these cases, banks and web wallets are third parties. If you wish to continue claiming to the contrary, you may go on as long as feel inclined to, I don't mind

You are a Legendary member and thus you have way more experience and knowledge than me. I have no hesitation in accepting your seniority. However, I am not convinced for what you are trying to convey. This is a vast topic and I think we need expert's opinion and references to discuss and analyse this topic

I guess you should just read what third party actually means

As per dictionary, it is "someone who may be indirectly involved but is not a principal party to an arrangement, contract, deal, lawsuit, or transaction". Note the emphasized distinction between a third party and a principal party which is made in this definition. That's basically what I'm trying to point out. If you put your money in a web wallet or in a bank account (bitcoins or whatever), they (a bank or a wallet) cannot be a third party. Regarding Legendary status or seniority or anything to that tune, if someone talks bullshit it will remain bullshit no matter what his rank or IQ might be. That's another distinction worth mentioning

[YuginKadoya]

If I decided to save bitcoins in bank, how will deposit rate be changed compared to dollar or other currencies? Will it have much lower percent?

I don't think bitcoin would need a saving right now and even if fiat money and bitcoin are both currencies there are a lot of different things in both of them compare to bitcoin fiat money can be store in a solid vault and would wither when time passes but bitcoin don't have any that is why bitcoin doesn't need a bank to be stored and be save by it, I think the one that need saving are fiat currencies because of the value of bitcoin right now many people would want to but Bitcoin.

You can put the paper wallet or the private key backup/ hardware wallet to bank for more security.  Bank function is not limited in storing money.  They function as vault to important documents and expensive or rare items too.

wtf?? The bank? Are you out of your mind? Bitcoin is created for the decentralized system and now you want to put your money into some centralized such as bank. Damn it. You are crazy dude.

I respect whatever he is trying to say but what is the point in putting your bitcoins to bank or Trezor, paper, or physical bitcoin on the bank if it is really decentralized there is a security features on every bitcoin wallet that are available right now, but the dude has a point that the bank can surely secure and store everything even Bitcoin.

[AicecreaME]

If I decided to save bitcoins in bank, how will deposit rate be changed compared to dollar or other currencies? Will it have much lower percent?

Its sad to say but there are no bitcoin banks existing online. If you want to earn then just hold your bitcoins in your wallet and wait for an inflation. That way you will get more profit out of your investment. The only way to  save in banks is to convert your bitcoin into fiat currency and then deposit it on banks. But holding bitcoin is much profitable than savings on bank.

Correct. So, if you want to invest your bitcoin OP, the only option that you have is to invest it on the gambling sites or to those HYIPs out there, but it is not really that recommended because most of them always turned out to be a scam in the end, so, if I were you, I will look for another way to multiply your bitcoins while you are saving it, because just Holding your current amount of bitcoin right now will be boring if you are not going to do anything, but to wait for the right time to convert your coin.

Like for example, why don't you try to do Signature Campaign or other ways to earn bitcoin in a legit way every week or in every month, never try gambling though, because I am telling you that it is not a really good idea.

[Sled]

If I decided to save bitcoins in bank, how will deposit rate be changed compared to dollar or other currencies? Will it have much lower percent?

Its sad to say but there are no bitcoin banks existing online. If you want to earn then just hold your bitcoins in your wallet and wait for an inflation. That way you will get more profit out of your investment. The only way to  save in banks is to convert your bitcoin into fiat currency and then deposit it on banks. But holding bitcoin is much profitable than savings on bank.

Correct. So, if you want to invest your bitcoin OP, the only option that you have is to invest it on the gambling sites or to those HYIPs out there, but it is not really that recommended because most of them always turned out to be a scam in the end, so, if I were you, I will look for another way to multiply your bitcoins while you are saving it, because just Holding your current amount of bitcoin right now will be boring if you are not going to do anything, but to wait for the right time to convert your coin.

Like for example, why don't you try to do Signature Campaign or other ways to earn bitcoin in a legit way every week or in every month, never try gambling though, because I am telling you that it is not a really good idea.

Gambling and HYIPs are just like one because they just get money from you and most of them doesn't give you chance to earn big amounts of money because those kinds of earnings can't be predicted by your or someone. Doing investing and saving bitcoin at the same time is always the best because that is what millionaires doing and if you want to be rich then you should do what riches do.

[SvenBomvolen]

Bitcoin is hardly to be saved in a bank accept it is exchanged in a local currency of the land. This means that you must exchange bitcoin to the value of the local currency before you can make a deposit in the bank. i think bitcoin is mainly installed in the bitcoin wallet.

if the point is about saving bitcoins in some safed place - why not to chose one of bitcoin wallets? There are different kinds today. And it's right that novadays to hold bitcoins in a bank you need to cash it out in fiat of your country first, becouse there are no banks that would work with bitcoin directly today.

[soul-impact]

Bitcoin is hardly to be saved in a bank accept it is exchanged in a local currency of the land. This means that you must exchange bitcoin to the value of the local currency before you can make a deposit in the bank. i think bitcoin is mainly installed in the bitcoin wallet.

if the point is about saving bitcoins in some safed place - why not to chose one of bitcoin wallets? There are different kinds today. And it's right that novadays to hold bitcoins in a bank you need to cash it out in fiat of your country first, becouse there are no banks that would work with bitcoin directly today.

that is correct. There are various types of wallet and you can easily pick one for yourself. I suggest you should use the Electrum if you like pc wallet and mycelium for the smartphone. They are both great with a good security. Moreover, they allow you to keep the private key. You can also create a backup file to store your wallet in a safer place

[xSkylarx]

I don't think that banks will ever start accepting bitcoins in future as its an threat to them and its an tough competition to the banking system and they might start adopting blockchain technology in future but they will never support bitcoins for sure and when it comes to saving bitcoins then its better to save them in bitcoin wallet instead of saving in banks as you will get better results by selling them when price goes higher in future.

It is true that banks are not yet accepting bitcoin as an investment to them, but there is a bank here in our country(Philippines) which is the Central bank of the Philippines which is accepting bitcoin as a payment on every transactions that are going to be make to them by their clients or customer. Click the link to read the article.
https://bravenewcoin.com/news/the-philippines-central-bank-approves-new-bitcoin-exchange-regulation.

And I know soon, banks will accept bitcoin as an investment.

[Daniel91]

I don't think that banks will ever start accepting bitcoins in future as its an threat to them and its an tough competition to the banking system and they might start adopting blockchain technology in future but they will never support bitcoins for sure and when it comes to saving bitcoins then its better to save them in bitcoin wallet instead of saving in banks as you will get better results by selling them when price goes higher in future.

It is true that banks are not yet accepting bitcoin as an investment to them, but there is a bank here in our country(Philippines) which is the Central bank of the Philippines which is accepting bitcoin as a payment on every transactions that are going to be make to them by their clients or customer. Click the link to read the article.
https://bravenewcoin.com/news/the-philippines-central-bank-approves-new-bitcoin-exchange-regulation.

And I know soon, banks will accept bitcoin as an investment.

It's very interesting news.
I know that in my country, Croatia, banks didn't accept bitcoin yet.
So, we can't use bitcoin as investment or for payment.
Some merchants, a few of them, accepts bitcoin for payments but they have to exchange such funds to Croatian currency righrt away.
They can't report income in bitcoins.
So, no way that we can officially use bitcoin for payments, investments or as financial assets.
We still have to keep our bitcoin funds in the wallets.

[Dudeperfect]

Government = Me = Banks
Me = Banks = Bank's Borrowers


* It is a chain system whereas when I deposit money with web wallet service provider, it will be

Me (Depositor) = Web Wallet Service Provider (Holder) = Me (Controller)


* Whereas in Bank's Case,

Me (Depositor) = Banks (Holder & Controller) = Bank's Borrowers (Holder)


In first the case wallet service provider won't have any additional rights to control the funds (lend it to others) whereas, in bank's case, we are authorising banks to bring additional contractees in the contract

I'm really fascinated how people are sometimes desperately trying to defend a losing point instead of just accepting being wrong

You are not authorizing (or disauthorizing, for that matter) banks to lend your money to anyone. There are no such provisions in deposit contracts. Banks are free to do with your money anything they may want to do as long as they fulfill their obligations to return you your deposit at the end of the deposit term and pay interest monthly. It is the same with web wallets essentially, they promise you to return the money on your first call, but apart from that, they can do anything they may ever please to do with your coins. In neither of these cases, banks and web wallets are third parties. If you wish to continue claiming to the contrary, you may go on as long as feel inclined to, I don't mind

You are a Legendary member and thus you have way more experience and knowledge than me. I have no hesitation in accepting your seniority. However, I am not convinced for what you are trying to convey. This is a vast topic and I think we need expert's opinion and references to discuss and analyse this topic

I guess you should just read what third party actually means

As per dictionary, it is "someone who may be indirectly involved but is not a principal party to an arrangement, contract, deal, lawsuit, or transaction". Note the emphasized distinction between a third party and a principal party which is made in this definition. That's basically what I'm trying to point out. If you put your money in a web wallet or in a bank account (bitcoins or whatever), they (a bank or a wallet) cannot be a third party. Regarding Legendary status or seniority or anything to that tune, if someone talks bullshit it will remain bullshit no matter what his rank or IQ might be. That's another distinction worth mentioning

Absolutely agree, If we are putting our money in banks or any wallet service provider then they are not the third party at all but I am just dragging attention to the part 2.

If I am authorising banks to lend my money (deposited bank/wallet) to someone then I am contracting with the bank's borrower and in that case, the bank will be the third party.

If I am giving my money to Obama and then Obama is giving to the Trump then I am indirectly dealing with the Trump. Theoretically, you might not see Obama as the third party but on the impact (practical) level, he will be the third party for me as my money will be in the hands of Trump.

[sandor111]

Bitcoin is hardly to be saved in a bank accept it is exchanged in a local currency of the land. This means that you must exchange bitcoin to the value of the local currency before you can make a deposit in the bank. i think bitcoin is mainly installed in the bitcoin wallet.

Yes it's up to you as you can save bitcoin  into bitcoin wallets like blockchain or coinbase i would suggest coinbase which is much simple and easy to use then once you have enough bitcoin then exchange it for your local currency from a trader at localbitcoin.com.

[jamieb81]

Bitcoin is hardly to be saved in a bank accept it is exchanged in a local currency of the land. This means that you must exchange bitcoin to the value of the local currency before you can make a deposit in the bank. i think bitcoin is mainly installed in the bitcoin wallet.

if the point is about saving bitcoins in some safed place - why not to chose one of bitcoin wallets? There are different kinds today. And it's right that novadays to hold bitcoins in a bank you need to cash it out in fiat of your country first, becouse there are no banks that would work with bitcoin directly today.

Bitcoin wallet are there to store bitcoin as banks don;'t deal with bitcoin directly yes i agree with you i am still wondering by this question which has been posted because all the bitcoin users know that they need a wallet to store bitcoin and that's the only way to store bitcoin there are different type of wallets like paper wallet, desktop wallet like electrum.

[deisik]

I guess you should just read what third party actually means

As per dictionary, it is "someone who may be indirectly involved but is not a principal party to an arrangement, contract, deal, lawsuit, or transaction". Note the emphasized distinction between a third party and a principal party which is made in this definition. That's basically what I'm trying to point out. If you put your money in a web wallet or in a bank account (bitcoins or whatever), they (a bank or a wallet) cannot be a third party. Regarding Legendary status or seniority or anything to that tune, if someone talks bullshit it will remain bullshit no matter what his rank or IQ might be. That's another distinction worth mentioning

Absolutely agree, If we are putting our money in banks or any wallet service provider then they are not the third party at all but I am just dragging attention to the part 2.

If I am authorising banks to lend my money (deposited bank/wallet) to someone then I am contracting with the bank's borrower and in that case, the bank will be the third party

You seem to be mistaken on that part too

You are contracting with the party with whom you sign an agreement, there cannot be two opinions about that either. In that very case, the borrowers from the bank will be a third party (and thus they will be the source of third party risks, not the bank itself) simply because you sign a contract with the bank (or agree to the Terms of Service as is the case with web wallets), not with the borrowers. You may not believe me, but you will have to accept what FDIC (the US deposit insurance agency) itself says on this account (since they specifically addressed this issue):



You can read more here

[Wipro]

Bitcoin is hardly to be saved in a bank accept it is exchanged in a local currency of the land. This means that you must exchange bitcoin to the value of the local currency before you can make a deposit in the bank. i think bitcoin is mainly installed in the bitcoin wallet.

Yes it's up to you as you can save bitcoin  into bitcoin wallets like blockchain or coinbase i would suggest coinbase which is much simple and easy to use then once you have enough bitcoin then exchange it for your local currency from a trader at localbitcoin.com.

Hey great, even I am using coinbase wallet. Its seems to be good and as a security reason its not accepting VPN. Even I just created a account in Localbitcoins.com and I noticed when we transferred to this trading site wallet then its get logging in when we save the user and passkey. Please check and use both according to your convenience.

[Ron~Popeil]

Bitcoin is hardly to be saved in a bank accept it is exchanged in a local currency of the land. This means that you must exchange bitcoin to the value of the local currency before you can make a deposit in the bank. i think bitcoin is mainly installed in the bitcoin wallet.

Yes it's up to you as you can save bitcoin  into bitcoin wallets like blockchain or coinbase i would suggest coinbase which is much simple and easy to use then once you have enough bitcoin then exchange it for your local currency from a trader at localbitcoin.com.

Hey great, even I am using coinbase wallet. Its seems to be good and as a security reason its not accepting VPN. Even I just created a account in Localbitcoins.com and I noticed when we transferred to this trading site wallet then its get logging in when we save the user and passkey. Please check and use both according to your convenience.

Yes even i am using this coinbase wallet i used to have blockchain earlier which was equally good but when it comes to convenience and user friendliness then coinbase is the best wallet and it does not accept VPN which proves that while begin user friendly and simple it's secure as well and for desktop Electrum is best.

[laredo7mm]

Bitcoin is hardly to be saved in a bank accept it is exchanged in a local currency of the land. This means that you must exchange bitcoin to the value of the local currency before you can make a deposit in the bank. i think bitcoin is mainly installed in the bitcoin wallet.

Yes it's up to you as you can save bitcoin  into bitcoin wallets like blockchain or coinbase i would suggest coinbase which is much simple and easy to use then once you have enough bitcoin then exchange it for your local currency from a trader at localbitcoin.com.

Hey great, even I am using coinbase wallet. Its seems to be good and as a security reason its not accepting VPN. Even I just created a account in Localbitcoins.com and I noticed when we transferred to this trading site wallet then its get logging in when we save the user and passkey. Please check and use both according to your convenience.

Yes even i am using this coinbase wallet i used to have blockchain earlier which was equally good but when it comes to convenience and user friendliness then coinbase is the best wallet and it does not accept VPN which proves that while begin user friendly and simple it's secure as well and for desktop Electrum is best.

Yeah even I am using electrum wallet since long time and it has great security features which keeps your bitcoins intact and would be impossible for an hacker to stole your bitcoins and whenever I want to sell my bitcoins I transfer that amount to my localbitcoins wallet where I can sell them online and transfer the fiat currency directly to my bank account in the fastest way possible.