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Author Topic: ICONOMI - Live for today. Invest for tomorrow.  (Read 548720 times)
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Gutenhans
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April 24, 2018, 04:23:22 PM
 #8661

What's ICONOMI's stance on EIP999, given they are one of the largest projects affected? Is there somewhere I can read about the team's thoughts on this matter?

Iconomi was the second most affected
Lost Funds:

Polkadot: 306,276 ETH
ICONOMI: 114,939 ETH (value around 77 milion Dollars)

The vote has ended with:

55% against returning the funds
39.4 in favor of returning the funds
5.6% don't care

This is bad news but we will live.

(I'm not touching ETH again as a form of protest)

Why is it bad news? Should we agree for hardfork every time a badly written smart contract will be exploited to lock someone's funds? If this was $1000 worth of ETH on a random contract, as opposed to millions of dollars on a Parity multi-sig wallet, would you still vote in favor? Ever heard about immutable blockchain? Parity fu**ed up their code, let them learn a lesson.

This is bad news for ICONOMI as WE the investors lost 77 million $.

Everybody has an opinion and i'm ok with that but since you asked me i will answer you. I would help someone who lost 1000$ or 100$ of ETH if had a choice. I would think about it even less if the choice would be as simple as voting or not voting at all.  I think too many people play the "let them learn a lesson" disc when actually it's about greed and having more than half a mil ETH burned. Crypto is still developing, mistakes will still be made. I think (and hope) this kind of response from the community will raise questions in the minds of big future investors.
Everybody makes mistakes.... some people are ready to help those who make them, some are not. Maybe you will change this attitude when you have a wife and kids or just someone living with/around you.

1000$ won't ruin someone's life but 348 million dollars (600k eth) ruin a lot of life's. I bet you see the difference. But... a vote is a vote and we have to live with that.


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April 24, 2018, 05:07:15 PM
Last edit: April 24, 2018, 08:35:40 PM by sud
Merited by Sjacmur (2)
 #8662

@Gutenhans

Well, investors holding tokens haven't lost anything, we still own our ICN worth same as yesterday (still under ICO price...). I don't know if or how will it affect DDAs on ICONOMI platform, probably it won't.

Whose life is going to be ruined by this? Those funds are frozen for so long now that most people already forgot about it. Parity is still doing well, Iconomi is developing great and Polkadot probably too (I'm not following them). All those projects have hundred of millions more in funds. You say $1000 is not much, so how about $10 000? Or $100 000? Where is the line?

All I'm saying is we can't alter the blockchain every time someone screw up. It would be like banks bail-out after 2008 recession. Crypto is suppose to be different, right?

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April 24, 2018, 07:02:36 PM
Last edit: April 24, 2018, 07:17:43 PM by Sjacmur
 #8663

@muleroaa @ruletheworld

I wasn't in crypto in 2016 yet and didn't invest in Iconomi ICO, but when I first bought ICN tokens the dividends was still on the roadmap (early 2017). I've found this pdf dated July 2016, so I guess it is the original one made for crowdsale. They even ditched the token holders voting promise...

https://coss.io/documents/white-papers/iconomi.pdf

Quote
ICN tokens represent ownership of the ICONOMI platform, allowing their holders to receive dividends and vote on ICONOMI related issues.

On the positive side, the team delivered working product - fund management platform, and they are developing it pretty well. Not many blockchain projects did that.

Thanks for the link. It does seem like the original Whitepaper. I remember reading it before the ICO, but never saved a copy. Good to have a local copy just in case.

For reference on how much the team has gone back on their original promises, here's a quote. Note that dividends vs. buybacks is the least of people's concerns:

Quote
100 % of the ICONOMI tokens represent 100 % ownership of the ICONOMI platform, comprising of all assets and liabilities, as well as each and every right and obligation, including but not limited to intellectual property rights, branding and trademarks.

Quote
ICN tokens represent ownership of the ICONOMI platform, allowing their holders to receive dividends and vote on ICONOMI related issues.

Quote
ICN ownership entitles its possessor to participate in ICONOMI platform related voting. One of the most important voting issues will be the selection of service operators. ICN holders are free to vote on a service operator at any time after the ICONOMI platform has been launched, but not before a 24-month moratorium has passed.

I don't see the above being true one bit.

The biggest problem is, all these 'changes' were done AFTER the team raised millions of dollars from the ICO participants. This is material misrepresentation to investors.

With respect to the actual product being developed, I am quite happy with that to be honest, and you're right that they seem better than most ICOs that never deliver anything. With that being said, all the value is going to the team instead of the ICN holders as they promised during the ICO. This is a problem. It is as if they took the money from one group, and built something to benefit another group, violating all the promises made to the first group during the process of raising money. That's what is concerning - not the product itself, but the use of the funds to benefit the investors who put the money to build the product in the first place. That's why everyone is so keen on the ICN utility, so that the ICO investors can see some of the benefits from the platform as well.

The dividends aspect is just one of dozens of issues.

What's ICONOMI's stance on EIP999, given they are one of the largest projects affected? Is there somewhere I can read about the team's thoughts on this matter?

Iconomi was the second most affected
Lost Funds:

Polkadot: 306,276 ETH
ICONOMI: 114,939 ETH (value around 77 milion Dollars)

The vote has ended with:

55% against returning the funds
39.4 in favor of returning the funds
5.6% don't care

This is bad news but we will live.

(I'm not touching ETH again as a form of protest)

Why is it bad news? Should we agree for hardfork every time a badly written smart contract will be exploited to lock someone's funds? If this was $1000 worth of ETH on a random contract, as opposed to millions of dollars on a Parity multi-sig wallet, would you still vote in favor? Ever heard about immutable blockchain? Parity fu**ed up their code, let them learn a lesson.

This is bad news for ICONOMI as WE the investors lost 77 million $.

Everybody has an opinion and i'm ok with that but since you asked me i will answer you. I would help someone who lost 1000$ or 100$ of ETH if had a choice. I would think about it even less if the choice would be as simple as voting or not voting at all.  I think too many people play the "let them learn a lesson" disc when actually it's about greed and having more than half a mil ETH burned. Crypto is still developing, mistakes will still be made. I think (and hope) this kind of response from the community will raise questions in the minds of big future investors.
Everybody makes mistakes.... some people are ready to help those who make them, some are not. Maybe you will change this attitude when you have a wife and kids or just someone living with/around you.

1000$ won't ruin someone's life but 348 million dollars (600k eth) ruin a lot of life's. I bet you see the difference. But... a vote is a vote and we have to live with that.


I participate in ICO and never see any profit or dividend from this tokens.
Yes platform after many years and funds works but ICN token dont give us any profit.
Token without connection with platform are useless and nothing worth. Price depends from only speculation even with some burns. Burns nothing is still nothing worth.
Sorry who is "WE" Huh Iconomi Team lost 77 milion $ not any "we" or "me" or "I lost".
I dont lost anything - I have usueless ICN tokens when I start in ICO they promised payed dividends. No dividents only unless ICN tokens sometimes burned.
They turned token into worthless thrash and now they are burning that trash.
SO WHY the hell you wrote that "WE" lost anything ? Maybe dev team but not me. I am not feeling like "investor" because I was scamed they promised dividends from platform but now we have UNLESS token no any use.
So scamers lost 77 mill $ but holders ICN Tokens NOTHING lost because ICN token is woth 0 - no have any use and connection to succes platform. So I dont care about this "lost".


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April 24, 2018, 09:50:45 PM
 #8664

@Gutenhans

Well, investors holding tokens haven't lost anything, we still own our ICN worth same as yesterday (still under ICO price...). I don't know if or how will it affect DDAs on ICONOMI platform, probably it won't.

Whose life is going to be ruined by this? Those funds are frozen for so long now that most people already forgot about it. Parity is still doing well, Iconomi is developing great and Polkadot probably too (I'm not following them). All those projects have hundred of millions more in funds. You say $1000 is not much, so how about $10 000? Or $100 000? Where is the line?

All I'm saying is we can't alter the blockchain every time someone screw up. It would be like banks bail-out after 2008 recession. Crypto is suppose to be different, right?
Are you seriously suggesting that $75 million+ of funds supposed to be held indirectly by ICN holders doesn't matter to the price of ICN, and 'we' haven't lose anything? Irrespective of whether you think the hard fork is a good or bad idea, surely you can agree that ICN holders collectively lost something.
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April 24, 2018, 09:54:26 PM
 #8665

Hm… Maybe I'm confusing your coin with something else, but – is it still unavailable in USA/Canada? Maybe it's a different project altogether…than I'm sorry for bothering you with such nonsense Smiley
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April 25, 2018, 04:58:06 AM
Last edit: April 25, 2018, 10:13:33 AM by Gutenhans
 #8666

@Gutenhans

Well, investors holding tokens haven't lost anything, we still own our ICN worth same as yesterday (still under ICO price...). I don't know if or how will it affect DDAs on ICONOMI platform, probably it won't.

Whose life is going to be ruined by this? Those funds are frozen for so long now that most people already forgot about it. Parity is still doing well, Iconomi is developing great and Polkadot probably too (I'm not following them). All those projects have hundred of millions more in funds. You say $1000 is not much, so how about $10 000? Or $100 000? Where is the line?

All I'm saying is we can't alter the blockchain every time someone screw up. It would be like banks bail-out after 2008 recession. Crypto is suppose to be different, right?

People who invested a lot (even borrowed money) expecting some kind of returns from the affected coins. And other people who used the Parity wallet we're affected.
Iconomi Price was affected a lot because those funds we're in pinta (20% performance fee used for burning) we would have had maybe a million icn tokens burned this quarter instead of half. Not to mention future profits.
At 100.000 i would draw a line.
Banks make money out of your deposits and lend it to other people. If i remember well the rate was something like 117% and that's because they could not place all loans that they wanted. So if you had 100$ in the bank they lended 117$ to other persons based on your deposit. In the Parity case nobody has lend money or made money on the back and hard work of someone else. It's just some funds that we're frozen because of a security flaw/human error. In the banks case it was NOTHING like that. Can't really resonate with you on the 2008 comparison.

Edit: at the time of the incident the  ETH was worth something like 30 mil and now it's worth 70 mil (rough numbers)
that's 40 mil difference and if you extract 20% (performance fee) you would see that we would have seen 8 milion $ used for burning. Now it's that nothing? again not to mention future proffits
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April 25, 2018, 06:45:50 AM
 #8667

Haven't been on this thread for a long long time.

I thought the funds were being returned from the Parity Clusterfuck.

I swore i saw something on twitter about Vitalik bailing out Gavin Wood.

So is the hard fork not happening?

Did Jani's arrogance just cost him a fuck load of mETH?

sheeet....


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April 25, 2018, 06:48:45 AM
 #8668

Are you seriously suggesting that $75 million+ of funds supposed to be held indirectly by ICN holders doesn't matter to the price of ICN, and 'we' haven't lose anything? Irrespective of whether you think the hard fork is a good or bad idea, surely you can agree that ICN holders collectively lost something.

Edit: at the time of the incident the 600k ETH was worth something like 30 mil and now it's worth 70 mil (rough numbers)
that's 40 mil difference and if you extract 20% (performance fee) you would see that we would have seen 8 milion $ used for burning. Now it's that nothing? again not to mention future proffits

OK, you are right guys, we have lost potential profit on ICN. It is just hard for me to belive that even if Iconomi would get those funds back, the price of ICN would be higher.

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April 25, 2018, 10:05:15 AM
 #8669

Haven't been on this thread for a long long time.

I thought the funds were being returned from the Parity Clusterfuck.

I swore i saw something on twitter about Vitalik bailing out Gavin Wood.

So is the hard fork not happening?

Did Jani's arrogance just cost him a fuck load of mETH?

sheeet....


 Shocked

That was a vote from the community. It expresses the will of the community and nothing more.
A hard fork can happen even if 5% or less of ETH community wants to. And they could name it ETH something and get away with it legally.
Hopefully people who are against it will come with another solution on the table and the will of the majority will be respected (immutability.... except the DAO incident).
Doing a fork against the will of the majority would damage ETH A LOT. Especially when there's a lot of people who lost money backing it.
The result of the fork Will not have a lot of value, maybe under 10$ but the damage to ETH price could be even more than 50%.  Even 0.50$ per token would be better as nothing so people who lost money will support it anyway.
Seeing how documented the ETH community as a whole is and how people use the word "bail-out" when referring to the killed contracts my bet is on a fork happening soon.
If that's the case and ETH has a big price drop that may affect the whole market.
 
Really interesting to see what's gonna happen.
The danger of a coming hard fork will keep the ETH prices lower then they should be. That is even if the fork won't happen.
This lost money it's a big black cloud hoovering over ETH but some people are not so bright to see it.

and again that's why i won't touch ETH again until this matter is taken care of.
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April 25, 2018, 09:09:47 PM
 #8670

Are you seriously suggesting that $75 million+ of funds supposed to be held indirectly by ICN holders doesn't matter to the price of ICN, and 'we' haven't lose anything? Irrespective of whether you think the hard fork is a good or bad idea, surely you can agree that ICN holders collectively lost something.

Edit: at the time of the incident the 600k ETH was worth something like 30 mil and now it's worth 70 mil (rough numbers)
that's 40 mil difference and if you extract 20% (performance fee) you would see that we would have seen 8 milion $ used for burning. Now it's that nothing? again not to mention future proffits

OK, you are right guys, we have lost potential profit on ICN. It is just hard for me to belive that even if Iconomi would get those funds back, the price of ICN would be higher.

I don't understand the silence of the Iconomi team on this issue. You're talking about scores of millions of dollars here, not a trivial amount. For example, they could commit to using those funds to buyback and burn ICNs, which could actually make a difference this time given the large amount of money for the buyback and burn.
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April 25, 2018, 09:33:08 PM
 #8671

They turned token into worthless thrash and now they are burning that trash.
What matters burn more or less this trash ??

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April 26, 2018, 03:59:47 AM
 #8672

This is a good project, I think this coin will be all right. I believe that such projects will always have community support and good trading volumes
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April 26, 2018, 06:23:20 AM
 #8673

Are you seriously suggesting that $75 million+ of funds supposed to be held indirectly by ICN holders doesn't matter to the price of ICN, and 'we' haven't lose anything? Irrespective of whether you think the hard fork is a good or bad idea, surely you can agree that ICN holders collectively lost something.

Edit: at the time of the incident the 600k ETH was worth something like 30 mil and now it's worth 70 mil (rough numbers)
that's 40 mil difference and if you extract 20% (performance fee) you would see that we would have seen 8 milion $ used for burning. Now it's that nothing? again not to mention future proffits

OK, you are right guys, we have lost potential profit on ICN. It is just hard for me to belive that even if Iconomi would get those funds back, the price of ICN would be higher.

I don't understand the silence of the Iconomi team on this issue. You're talking about scores of millions of dollars here, not a trivial amount. For example, they could commit to using those funds to buyback and burn ICNs, which could actually make a difference this time given the large amount of money for the buyback and burn.

I think they (together with Polkadot and Parity team) are still working on solution to get those funds back, even if the hard fork won't happen. It would be amazing to see $70M worth of buybacks, but it is half the current marketcap on ICN, so it's pretty much unreal.

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someonesomeone
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April 26, 2018, 10:30:27 AM
 #8674

They would never use the full $70M. But this money could be invested and then 20% of the profits would be used for burning which could still be a lot of money.

And honestly, I think that a solution will be found sooner or later. The Polkadot guys lost ALL of their ICO money and no way that will stand. One of the Polkadot guys is even an Ethereum cofounder so they will find a way, I am sure of it.

Are you seriously suggesting that $75 million+ of funds supposed to be held indirectly by ICN holders doesn't matter to the price of ICN, and 'we' haven't lose anything? Irrespective of whether you think the hard fork is a good or bad idea, surely you can agree that ICN holders collectively lost something.

Edit: at the time of the incident the 600k ETH was worth something like 30 mil and now it's worth 70 mil (rough numbers)
that's 40 mil difference and if you extract 20% (performance fee) you would see that we would have seen 8 milion $ used for burning. Now it's that nothing? again not to mention future proffits

OK, you are right guys, we have lost potential profit on ICN. It is just hard for me to belive that even if Iconomi would get those funds back, the price of ICN would be higher.

I don't understand the silence of the Iconomi team on this issue. You're talking about scores of millions of dollars here, not a trivial amount. For example, they could commit to using those funds to buyback and burn ICNs, which could actually make a difference this time given the large amount of money for the buyback and burn.

I think they (together with Polkadot and Parity team) are still working on solution to get those funds back, even if the hard fork won't happen. It would be amazing to see $70M worth of buybacks, but it is half the current marketcap on ICN, so it's pretty much unreal.
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April 26, 2018, 04:11:01 PM
 #8675

ICONOMI Financial Report — Q1 2018


https://medium.com/iconominet/iconomi-financial-report-q1-2018-81e1ea0a11a8

Donate:      WAVES, WavesGo  - 3PEmvrDSGPsfrrAthuRKERJ1evCik9xMCq9              BTC - 3KKLH2Es63zmDxuCysoiHM1q9PyiwGL9xA                      Eth -  0xaE614cDB2D93b21cd108dc5cd363888920D06576                       LTC - Lcuua4CPbXGDnwVGhexcy5ZotejSitroj9                         Zcash - t1cpNwrPMbMC3wcR1T1rVvLYttp86b95m75                             DASH  - XcYNtJ2cdTca4Qug8C62hhrW4X5RQhFcmh
ruletheworld
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April 26, 2018, 04:49:17 PM
 #8676

Are you seriously suggesting that $75 million+ of funds supposed to be held indirectly by ICN holders doesn't matter to the price of ICN, and 'we' haven't lose anything? Irrespective of whether you think the hard fork is a good or bad idea, surely you can agree that ICN holders collectively lost something.

Edit: at the time of the incident the 600k ETH was worth something like 30 mil and now it's worth 70 mil (rough numbers)
that's 40 mil difference and if you extract 20% (performance fee) you would see that we would have seen 8 milion $ used for burning. Now it's that nothing? again not to mention future proffits

OK, you are right guys, we have lost potential profit on ICN. It is just hard for me to belive that even if Iconomi would get those funds back, the price of ICN would be higher.

I don't understand the silence of the Iconomi team on this issue. You're talking about scores of millions of dollars here, not a trivial amount. For example, they could commit to using those funds to buyback and burn ICNs, which could actually make a difference this time given the large amount of money for the buyback and burn.

I think they (together with Polkadot and Parity team) are still working on solution to get those funds back, even if the hard fork won't happen. It would be amazing to see $70M worth of buybacks, but it is half the current marketcap on ICN, so it's pretty much unreal.

Yes, but it doesn't seem like the EIP999 would pass. The community is opposed to it. You cannot sit and scheme in the back rooms and then provide the "solution" to the community. There's a reason other projects, including Parity, have been out there in the public talking about this and trying to persuade the community. I don't see that from the Iconomi team, which is one of the projects affected by this.
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April 26, 2018, 05:06:49 PM
 #8677

i think they should stay impartial in public announcements and on the other side push more aggressively for a solution. They can still take matters in their own hands and fork, together with Polka and rest of the "parity" gang. They are not empty handed in this negotiation.

Anyway we burned more than half a mil tokens and that's nice to see. I find the report good, nice that they are on top of things with regulators, audits and legal stuff as i expect some new laws regarding crypto very soon.
ruletheworld
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April 26, 2018, 05:14:39 PM
 #8678

i think they should stay impartial in public announcements and on the other side push more aggressively for a solution. They can still take matters in their own hands and fork, together with Polka and rest of the "parity" gang. They are not empty handed in this negotiation.

Anyway we burned more than half a mil tokens and that's nice to see. I find the report good, nice that they are on top of things with regulators, audits and legal stuff as i expect some new laws regarding crypto very soon.
No body will follow a fork without community consensus. "They" can take matters into their hands and fork into a worthless network but that's not the goal, is it?
someonesomeone
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April 26, 2018, 05:30:20 PM
 #8679

Nice, more then 570k burned tokens. I expected 500k+ so this is pretty good in my opinion. And I am also liking the fact that they are increasing their position in ICN, when it explodes there will be nice buyback profits from their ICN sales Smiley

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April 26, 2018, 11:35:11 PM
 #8680

Official @deloitte statement on verifying #ICONOMI’s digital assets by carrying out the first blockchain audit:







https://www2.deloitte.com/si/en/pages/press/blockchain-industry.html#


https://twitter.com/iconominet/status/989444720643452939

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