Police State?

[Viceroy]

and so we are like a police state?  the 31st most free country on earth is like a police state?

[1m1nd]

Define "police state." Surely we all live in police states in that we all have police and we all provide them with whatever firepower we think they might need?

police state: a state or country in which a repressive government maintains control through the police

in every police state there are people who maintain the government is not repressive, or is necessarily so.

Repression is not an objective term; it can only be assessed in comparison to others.

What country is so free that by comparison the US is repressive enough to qualify as a police state?

Imaginationland. Equestria. Teletubby Fun Land. To name but three...

[Hawker]

What country is so free that by comparison the US is repressive enough to qualify as a police state?

The Press Freedom Index has 31 countries ahead of the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_Freedom_Index

I've worked in Finland which is the free-est and the US; both for a year or 2.  Its hard to argue that the US is so much less free than Finland that its repressive. If I compare either of them to China, then the words "repression" and "scary" come screaming out but its China that was horrible, not Finland or the US.

Does anyone really feel that Finland is so much more free than the US that the US rates are a repressive country to live in?

[myrkul]

Would you like to bring up the mis-typed pip instead of pipe for the three thousandth time, douchebag?

No, you do that well enough.

Evidence or it didn't happen, douchebag.

Would you like to bring up the mis-typed pip instead of pipe for the three thousandth time

Though since you mention it, why were so many people on the outside of those APCs, if they were worried about explosives? Wouldn't they be safer on the other side of the armor?

Sure.  What's your point?  That while the pipe bombs were not being thrown there were people sticking their heads outside APC's?  So what?  America is not Iraq.

No, that they were riding on the sides of said APCs. If one is concerned about explosives (which is why you stated the APCs were brought out) one would be wise to at least not provide human shields for your tanks.

[Matthew N. Wright]

How do you handle scammers in a non-police state? Just kill anyone you think is cheating for some reason? (That would end up with 1 person left standing eventually)

[Viceroy]

What country is so free that by comparison the US is repressive enough to qualify as a police state?

The Press Freedom Index has 31 countries ahead of the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_Freedom_Index

You must mean this revision:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Press_Freedom_Index&oldid=551856168

[myrkul]

How do you handle scammers in a non-police state? Just kill anyone you think is cheating for some reason? (That would end up with 1 person left standing eventually)

With respect, Matt, this deserves it's own thread. Putting it in here is just going to get it all dirty.

[1m1nd]

How do you handle scammers in a non-police state? Just kill anyone you think is cheating for some reason? (That would end up with 1 person left standing eventually)

In a situation where trade is happening..theoretically, both parties agree to submit to a privately operated judicial process to oversee whatever deal they wish to make. There is no monopoly on these systems.

That's the general idea at least. I don't have strong enough views on it to bother advancing the idea here.

[wdmw]

How do you handle scammers in a non-police state? Just kill anyone you think is cheating for some reason? (That would end up with 1 person left standing eventually)

With respect, Matt, this deserves it's own thread. Putting it in here is just going to get it all dirty.

I think we're past worrying about dirtying up this thread.  It will be entertaining to see this guy's reaction to voluntarism.

[Matthew N. Wright]

How do you handle scammers in a non-police state? Just kill anyone you think is cheating for some reason? (That would end up with 1 person left standing eventually)

With respect, Matt, this deserves it's own thread. Putting it in here is just going to get it all dirty.

I know, but this:

I think we're past worrying about dirtying up this thread.  It will be entertaining to see this guy's reaction to voluntarism.

How do you handle scammers in a non-police state? Just kill anyone you think is cheating for some reason? (That would end up with 1 person left standing eventually)

In a situation where trade is happening..theoretically, both parties agree to submit to a privately operated judicial process to oversee whatever deal they wish to make. There is no monopoly on these systems.

That's the general idea at least. I don't have strong enough views on it to bother advancing the idea here.

So when Tom Williams refuses to submit himself to the private super happy funtime judicial "process" that is non-violent and doesn't force anyone to stop raping you and stealing your money, how does the non-police state handle it? Sending him an e-mail reminder?

[myrkul]

How do you handle scammers in a non-police state? Just kill anyone you think is cheating for some reason? (That would end up with 1 person left standing eventually)

With respect, Matt, this deserves it's own thread. Putting it in here is just going to get it all dirty.

I think we're past worrying about dirtying up this thread.  It will be entertaining to see this guy's reaction to voluntarism.

Oh no, not dirtying up this thread, quite the opposite, The conversation about handling fraud in a voluntary society shouldn't be subjected to this cesspool.

[Matthew N. Wright]

How do you handle scammers in a non-police state? Just kill anyone you think is cheating for some reason? (That would end up with 1 person left standing eventually)

With respect, Matt, this deserves it's own thread. Putting it in here is just going to get it all dirty.

I think we're past worrying about dirtying up this thread.  It will be entertaining to see this guy's reaction to voluntarism.

Oh no, not dirtying up this thread, quite the opposite, The conversation about handling fraud in a voluntary society shouldn't be subjected to this cesspool.

Oh sorry, misunderstood. I'll start another thread.

[1m1nd]

I've worked in Finland which is the free-est and the US; both for a year or 2.  Its hard to argue that the US is so much less free than Finland that its repressive. If I compare either of them to China, then the words "repression" and "scary" come screaming out but its China that was horrible, not Finland or the US.

Does anyone really feel that Finland is so much more free than the US that the US rates are a repressive country to live in?

One can make the argument that every state is currently unjustifiably oppressive, and i'm sure that is the view held by most people who classify the USA as a police state.

Having personally witnessed the violent police repression of political dissent in the UK, it's hard for me not to view things like this.

[Hawker]

I've worked in Finland which is the free-est and the US; both for a year or 2.  Its hard to argue that the US is so much less free than Finland that its repressive. If I compare either of them to China, then the words "repression" and "scary" come screaming out but its China that was horrible, not Finland or the US.

Does anyone really feel that Finland is so much more free than the US that the US rates are a repressive country to live in?

One can make the argument that every state is currently unjustifiably oppressive, and i'm sure that is the view held by most people who classify the USA as a police state.

Having personally witnessed the violent police repression of political dissent in the UK, it's hard for me not to view things like this.

Ah - so calling the US a "police state" is not a meaningful criticism then is it?  Why not just call it a "state" and reserve the term "police state" for places like Syria.

[myrkul]

I've worked in Finland which is the free-est and the US; both for a year or 2.  Its hard to argue that the US is so much less free than Finland that its repressive. If I compare either of them to China, then the words "repression" and "scary" come screaming out but its China that was horrible, not Finland or the US.

Does anyone really feel that Finland is so much more free than the US that the US rates are a repressive country to live in?

One can make the argument that every state is currently unjustifiably oppressive, and i'm sure that is the view held by most people who classify the USA as a police state.

Having personally witnessed the violent police repression of political dissent in the UK, it's hard for me not to view things like this.

Ah - so calling the US a "police state" is not a meaningful criticism then is it?  Why not just call it a "state" and reserve the term "police state" for places like Syria.

Sort of like making a distinction between "rape" and "forcible rape"?

[Severian]

Does anyone really feel that Finland is so much more free than the US that the US rates are a repressive country to live in?

I don't think it's a relative issue. If my government is preventing me from engaging in consensual, non-violent actions or transactions through law or statute, it's repressive.

As the modern nation state and its attendant bank is defined by hyper-regulation and the negation of consent as method of governance, then repression seems to be the norm. The possibility of countering the economic and political repression of the modern bank/state is what drew me to Bitcoin and keeps me in it.

[Severian]

Why not just call it a "state" and reserve the term "police state" for places like Syria.

That only works if a police state is defined as "throwing people you like in jail."

[Hawker]

I've worked in Finland which is the free-est and the US; both for a year or 2.  Its hard to argue that the US is so much less free than Finland that its repressive. If I compare either of them to China, then the words "repression" and "scary" come screaming out but its China that was horrible, not Finland or the US.

Does anyone really feel that Finland is so much more free than the US that the US rates are a repressive country to live in?

One can make the argument that every state is currently unjustifiably oppressive, and i'm sure that is the view held by most people who classify the USA as a police state.

Having personally witnessed the violent police repression of political dissent in the UK, it's hard for me not to view things like this.

Ah - so calling the US a "police state" is not a meaningful criticism then is it?  Why not just call it a "state" and reserve the term "police state" for places like Syria.

Sort of like making a distinction between "rape" and "forcible rape"?

That's a crude way of looking at things.  Do you mean to say its a good analogy in that "Rape" includes consensual sex between 15 year olds while "forcible rape" does not?  So a "state" would be based on consent while a "police state" would not?

I'm not sure what bring rape into that analogy adds to the conversation.

[Hawker]

Why not just call it a "state" and reserve the term "police state" for places like Syria.

That only works if a police state is defined as "throwing people you like in jail."

So what country do you regard as so much more free than the US that you feel justified in saying that the US is a police state?

[1m1nd]

I've worked in Finland which is the free-est and the US; both for a year or 2.  Its hard to argue that the US is so much less free than Finland that its repressive. If I compare either of them to China, then the words "repression" and "scary" come screaming out but its China that was horrible, not Finland or the US.

Does anyone really feel that Finland is so much more free than the US that the US rates are a repressive country to live in?

One can make the argument that every state is currently unjustifiably oppressive, and i'm sure that is the view held by most people who classify the USA as a police state.

Having personally witnessed the violent police repression of political dissent in the UK, it's hard for me not to view things like this.

Ah - so calling the US a "police state" is not a meaningful criticism then is it?  Why not just call it a "state" and reserve the term "police state" for places like Syria.

It draws attention to the increasing militarisation of the police in the US and the continuing squeeze on civil liberties.

EDIT: it certainly is a valid criticism, when comparing the US of today with the US of say, 20 years ago.