BITSTAMP eXchange wall Observer. second biggest and best exchange

[Coinseeker]

I think the philosophy of bitcoin is decentralization, by doing this it can work cross the globe and be politically neutral. An exchange or gateway will have to follow the regulations of local government, which might not be interested for another country which have a different political situation

I don't care about FinCEN regulation because I'm not living in US, and I believe that many other countries will have different view on bitcoin than US. China could be a very big mover behind bitcoin in the future because all the mining equipment production will eventually be outsourced to there, and the chinese political system is totally different

We need thousands of localbitcoins-like website to connect local buyers and sellers, when there are more and more people have coins, local trading will be practical

Yeah, good luck with that...seriously.  I personally will take hundreds of Ripple gateways over thousands of "localbitcoin-like" sites.  Or even better, all those sites plug into the Ripple network too.   

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[Walsoraj]

Coinseeker,

i believe those administrator/exchanger definitions apply to those "in the business of ...." Look near top of that fincen doc. I cannot find definition of what constitutes being in business. But, the lawyers to which i paid lots of dolars say lots of cases have clarified the def'n. The average btc user or speculator is not in the business of doing anything w/ bitcoin. A day trader might be. Bottom line is if your livelihood or sole source of income is from moving around coins, then fincen should be a concern to you.

[joesmoe2012]

Coinseeker,

i believe those administrator/exchanger definitions apply to those "in the business of ...." Look near top of that fincen doc. I cannot find definition of what constitutes being in business. But, the lawyers to which i paid lots of dolars say lots of cases have clarified the def'n. The average btc user or speculator is not in the business of doing anything w/ bitcoin. A day trader might be. Bottom line is if your livelihood or sole source of income is from moving around coins, then fincen should be a concern to you.

If you are operating a ripple gateway or exchanging bitcoins (i.e. on localbitcoins) and are not registerd with FinCEN then you are breaking the law in the USA. Doesn't matter if your buying bitcoins or selling bitcoins, if you're doing it for USD then you're breaking the law.

[Walsoraj]

Coinseeker,

i believe those administrator/exchanger definitions apply to those "in the business of ...." Look near top of that fincen doc. I cannot find definition of what constitutes being in business. But, the lawyers to which i paid lots of dolars say lots of cases have clarified the def'n. The average btc user or speculator is not in the business of doing anything w/ bitcoin. A day trader might be. Bottom line is if your livelihood or sole source of income is from moving around coins, then fincen should be a concern to you.

If you are operating a ripple gateway or exchanging bitcoins (i.e. on localbitcoins) and are not registerd with FinCEN then you are breaking the law in the USA. Doesn't matter if your buying bitcoins or selling bitcoins, if you're doing it for USD then you're breaking the law.

Hi, you can't read.

Operating a ripple gateway mostly likely means you are running a business revolving around bitcoins and in that case would be subject to the admin/exchanger definitions. As I explained above.

Consult w/ a lawyer about that Fincen guidance. If they are any good, they will catch the general rule about operating a biz and the more specific rules further down that apply to biz operatings.

Dumy, don't challenge me.

[Coinseeker]

Coinseeker,

i believe those administrator/exchanger definitions apply to those "in the business of ...." Look near top of that fincen doc. I cannot find definition of what constitutes being in business. But, the lawyers to which i paid lots of dolars say lots of cases have clarified the def'n. The average btc user or speculator is not in the business of doing anything w/ bitcoin. A day trader might be. Bottom line is if your livelihood or sole source of income is from moving around coins, then fincen should be a concern to you.

If you are operating a ripple gateway or exchanging bitcoins (i.e. on localbitcoins) and are not registerd with FinCEN then you are breaking the law in the USA. Doesn't matter if your buying bitcoins or selling bitcoins, if you're doing it for USD then you're breaking the law.

Hi, you can't read.

Operating a ripple gateway mostly likely means you are running a business revolving around bitcoins and in that case would be subject to the admin/exchanger definitions. As I explained above.

Consult w/ a lawyer about that Fincen guidance. If they are any good, they will catch the general rule about operating a biz and the more specific rules further down that apply to biz operatings.

Dumy, don't challenge me.

You are absolutely wrong but I wish you good luck in court with that "interpretation".  Basically, your "legal" argument is, if an entity doesn't file for a business license, they can buy and sell all the volume they want because they are not actually a "business".  Again, good luck with this argument.  I hope you win and set precedence.  For now, I know it's a delusion.

[Walsoraj]

General def near top of doc:

Definitions of User, Exchanger, and Administrator

            This guidance refers to the participants in generic virtual currency arrangements, using the terms "user," "exchanger," and "administrator."6 A user is a person that obtains virtual currency to purchase goods or services.7 An exchanger is a person engaged as a business in the exchange of virtual currency for real currency, funds, or other virtual currency. An administrator is a person engaged as a business in issuing (putting into circulation) a virtual currency, and who has the authority to redeem (to withdraw from circulation) such virtual currency.

A proper lawyer will interpret the more specific clarifications in context of general def'n. Are you poor or something? Sit down with a lawyer to discuss the guidance. They will tell you that what will trip up most bitcoiners is the "engaged as a business" language. That is not defined anywhere and is not always intuitive. You need not file docs w/ secretary of state to be considered a business. Legal courts will impose this def'n on you if you are doing something for profits and it is your sole source of income/how you earn a livelihood.

You dum poor people need to talk to a good lawyer.

[Walsoraj]

You are absolutely wrong but I wish you good luck in court with that "interpretation".  Basically, your "legal" argument is, if an entity doesn't file for a business license, they can buy and sell all the volume they want because they are not actually a "business".  Again, good luck with this argument.  I hope you win and set precedence.  For now, I know it's a delusion.

This is pure LOL. Filing docs are not required for court to determine you operating biz. The reason persons file docs is to recieve additional biz benefits. FOr example liability protections. Make loans easier to get etc.. But courts are aware that lots of ppl try to get away with running businesses without filing docs. lol, they don't get away with it. There is a "common law" definition that courts apply. Also, when idiots operate businesses without filing docs, they don't get lots of statutory protections. You are subject to all the laws without the benefits of protections

lol at the stupidity in this forum. talk to areal lawyer.

[Coinseeker]

You are absolutely wrong but I wish you good luck in court with that "interpretation".  Basically, your "legal" argument is, if an entity doesn't file for a business license, they can buy and sell all the volume they want because they are not actually a "business".  Again, good luck with this argument.  I hope you win and set precedence.  For now, I know it's a delusion.

This is pure LOL. Filing docs are not required for court to determine you operating biz. The reason persons file docs is to recieve additional biz benefits. FOr example liability protections. Make loans easier to get etc.. But courts are aware that lots of ppl try to get away with running businesses without filing docs. lol, they don't get away with it. There is a "common law" definition that courts apply. Also, when idiots operate businesses without filing docs, they don't get lots of statutory protections. You are subject to all the laws without the benefits of protections

lol at the stupidity in this forum. talk to areal lawyer.

I rest my case.  You just undid your own argument.  Fail!  And welcome to my ignore list, you rude little man.  

[Walsoraj]

You are absolutely wrong but I wish you good luck in court with that "interpretation".  Basically, your "legal" argument is, if an entity doesn't file for a business license, they can buy and sell all the volume they want because they are not actually a "business".  Again, good luck with this argument.  I hope you win and set precedence.  For now, I know it's a delusion.

This is pure LOL. Filing docs are not required for court to determine you operating biz. The reason persons file docs is to recieve additional biz benefits. FOr example liability protections. Make loans easier to get etc.. But courts are aware that lots of ppl try to get away with running businesses without filing docs. lol, they don't get away with it. There is a "common law" definition that courts apply. Also, when idiots operate businesses without filing docs, they don't get lots of statutory protections. You are subject to all the laws without the benefits of protections

lol at the stupidity in this forum. talk to areal lawyer.

I rest my case.  You just undid your own argument.  Fail!  And welcome to my ignore list, you rude little man.  

and i rest my case.

You said "Basically, your "legal" argument is, if an entity doesn't file for a business license, they can buy and sell all the volume they want because they are not actually a "business". "

And that is exactly opposite of what i said.

read fail. You can be found to be a business inadvertently even if you fail to file. as I've said like 20 times now.

this is just too classic.

[Walsoraj]

to be 100% perfectly clear:

Operating a business DOES NOT require filing docs with state. Yes, it would be stupid not to file the docs. But lots of idiots don't. Courts have very old common law definition they apply when idiots do not file docs. That def'n has to do with person's activities. Sole source of income or earning livelihood virtually guarantees the court finds you are a business.

If you are treating bitcoin has a hobby or just bought for protection against inflation or to use to buy a goods like a laptop, then you are prob ok. THe gray line is day-trading. If you have no other job and all your income is by trading and that alone.... you might be operating a business. If you have a primary job and day-trading is just something on the side, then you are also prob ok but this is more of a light-gray area.

[KS]

so this is the new Gox thread?

[molecular]

$100 here we come?

Europeans just waking up to this little jump close to a psychological barrier. They might well buy in before breakfast based on tape. Maybe even some whale gets the idea to carry it above. (there's not much there below $100: 2k)

[molecular]

we're getting closer . Less than 1k BTC left below $100

[phatsphere]

$100.2. nicely done bitstamp ;-)

[dnaleor]

I think we will see a rally now... Maybe 130 USD in short term?
Price was below 100 USD for a "long" time, people who wanted to coins for hoarding and not speculation had the opportunity to buy low and will hold (my guess)

[dnaleor]

they are taking down the 101 USD wall

[joesmoe2012]

General def near top of doc:

Definitions of User, Exchanger, and Administrator

            This guidance refers to the participants in generic virtual currency arrangements, using the terms "user," "exchanger," and "administrator."6 A user is a person that obtains virtual currency to purchase goods or services.7 An exchanger is a person engaged as a business in the exchange of virtual currency for real currency, funds, or other virtual currency. An administrator is a person engaged as a business in issuing (putting into circulation) a virtual currency, and who has the authority to redeem (to withdraw from circulation) such virtual currency.

A proper lawyer will interpret the more specific clarifications in context of general def'n. Are you poor or something? Sit down with a lawyer to discuss the guidance. They will tell you that what will trip up most bitcoiners is the "engaged as a business" language. That is not defined anywhere and is not always intuitive. You need not file docs w/ secretary of state to be considered a business. Legal courts will impose this def'n on you if you are doing something for profits and it is your sole source of income/how you earn a livelihood.

You dum poor people need to talk to a good lawyer.

hmmm maybe you should take your own advice.

+ignore to FUD

[XXthetimeisnowXX]

+15 dollar separation. if they are dumping on stamp, some no doubt are, then why does it continue to climb? lets go stamp break that hundo

[lucas.sev]

+15 dollar separation. if they are dumping on stamp, some no doubt are, then why does it continue to climb? lets go stamp break that hundo

nobody is dumping at stamp. People play the game of increasing their bitcoin holdings with playmoney locked in mtgox. Just look at how much money was there on the sidelines

[XXthetimeisnowXX]

ok a bit off topic but why does coinbase set there buy sell price so damn low? to sell on coinbase you would not even get 100 right now? even stamp is at 100. and gox is 115. so how do they come up with this? seams a bit low imo