Bitcoin Forum
August 25, 2019, 12:07:07 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 0.18.0 [Torrent] (New!)
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 [14] 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 »
  Print  
Author Topic: @RogerVer lets make a deal. At least 60k, my BTU for your BTC.  (Read 64027 times)
cellard
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1372
Merit: 1210


View Profile
March 23, 2017, 02:34:12 PM
 #261



Desastrous picture, like an altcoin pump melting down. The way this fights out feels wrong. When looking at some alts like XMR, there is the concept of variable blocksizes working since years, and very smoothely.

XMR has never meet anywhere near the transaction volumes of BTC. Same goes for all those alts trying to save the day from the comfortable position of being irrelevant. Let's see what happens when they do. XMR node count already rather low, afaik XMR nodes are even heavier to run than bitcoin. I wonder how much the XMR blockchain would weight in the case of it getting BTC-level transaction volume?

Not a XMR hater, just pointing out facts. I think the coin got good tech, but I don't see how it solves the scaling problem at all.
1566691627
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1566691627

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1566691627
Reply with quote  #2

1566691627
Report to moderator
1566691627
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1566691627

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1566691627
Reply with quote  #2

1566691627
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
Carlton Banks
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2464
Merit: 1836



View Profile
March 23, 2017, 02:47:06 PM
 #262

Not a XMR hater, just pointing out facts. I think the coin got good tech, but I don't see how it solves the scaling problem at all.

And the fact is, blocksize increases solve the capacity problem, at the exact same scale. Blocksize increases do not change the scale at all.

Big blockers really don't like this fact, which is why they have never dared refute it.

Vires in numeris
popovicbit
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 141
Merit: 100


View Profile
March 23, 2017, 03:18:29 PM
 #263

I got 5 on it.
dooglus
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2688
Merit: 1145



View Profile
March 23, 2017, 09:28:28 PM
 #264

If you bought btc at a penny each and invested ONLY $100k you'd be sitting on 10 million btc right now.

When Bitcoin was a penny each there weren't 10 million of them. Do you think about what you're saying? It took 4 years for the first 10 million BTC to be mined. The 10 millionth Bitcoin was mined on Sep 22nd 2012 when the price was around $12 per BTC, and that's just the spot price. If you were trying to buy them all you would have pushed the price way higher.

Do you really think that the people who bought BTC cheap and held it all these years through the highs and lows were just "lucky"?

Just-Dice                 ██             
          ██████████         
      ██████████████████     
  ██████████████████████████ 
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
    ██████████████████████   
        ██████████████       
            ██████           
   Play or Invest                 ██             
          ██████████         
      ██████████████████     
  ██████████████████████████ 
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
    ██████████████████████   
        ██████████████       
            ██████           
   1% House Edge
deeplink
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 728
Merit: 500


In cryptography we trust


View Profile
March 23, 2017, 09:40:30 PM
 #265

Do you really think that the people who bought BTC cheap and held it all these years through the highs and lows were just "lucky"?

Certainly not. The people who bought or mined BTC in the first years were not taken seriously, they were ridiculed, laughed at and told they were crazy to throw away their time and money. Not even one in a million people understood it, but those who did certainly weren't just lucky.
traincarswreck
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 476
Merit: 250


View Profile
March 23, 2017, 09:59:33 PM
 #266


Certainly not. The people who bought or mined BTC in the first years were not taken seriously, they were ridiculed, laughed at and told they were crazy to throw away their time and money. Not even one in a million people understood it, but those who did certainly weren't just lucky.
Yes they were and thats the whole problem right now.  Ver is claiming he is smart because he was an early adopter.  A quote by Wei Dai comes to mind, who far more attributes such wealth and timing to luck rather than skill/intelligence. Any intelligent (and sufficiently humble) person would.

Being an early adopter is not an indicator of intelligence.
QuestionAuthority
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2086
Merit: 1375


You lead and I'll watch you walk away.


View Profile
March 23, 2017, 09:59:49 PM
 #267

If you bought btc at a penny each and invested ONLY $100k you'd be sitting on 10 million btc right now.

When Bitcoin was a penny each there weren't 10 million of them. Do you think about what you're saying? It took 4 years for the first 10 million BTC to be mined. The 10 millionth Bitcoin was mined on Sep 22nd 2012 when the price was around $12 per BTC, and that's just the spot price. If you were trying to buy them all you would have pushed the price way higher.

Do you really think that the people who bought BTC cheap and held it all these years through the highs and lows were just "lucky"?

Yes, they were very lucky that bitcoin kept climbing in price and they decided not to sell. I've watched Ver over the years throw 10-20k bitcoins around and that was many years ago, way before he could have wisely invested to grow his stash that large. Not everyone was stupid enough to buy a pizza with thousands of mined bitcoins. It doesn't have to be 10 million, one million is enough. Satoshi is believed to have that many. That was just an extreme example of what you could do today to become ultra wealthy tomorrow.

Many early miners ended up with 10s of thousands of bitcoin. You couldn't possibly be so uninformed that you've never heard of off-book buying so I'm not even going to respond to that one. BTW, Bruno was looking for you. Did you guys ever connect?

European Central Bank
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1288
Merit: 1080



View Profile
March 23, 2017, 10:16:25 PM
 #268

Not everyone was stupid enough to buy a pizza with thousands of mined bitcoins.

that's a transaction that deserves everyone's respect. we might not be here if it hadn't happened.
QuestionAuthority
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2086
Merit: 1375


You lead and I'll watch you walk away.


View Profile
March 23, 2017, 10:21:06 PM
 #269

Not everyone was stupid enough to buy a pizza with thousands of mined bitcoins.

that's a transaction that deserves everyone's respect. we might not be here if it hadn't happened.

Ok, maybe, but it was also a transaction made by someone that never believed bitcoin would be worth very much. Just like all the 50 btc VIP forum members. Either that or all the VIP members really did want to spend $50,000 to impress a bunch of strangers.

traincarswreck
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 476
Merit: 250


View Profile
March 23, 2017, 10:23:12 PM
 #270



Ok, maybe, but it was also a transaction made by someone that never believed bitcoin would be worth very much. Just like all the 50 btc VIP forum members. Either that or all the VIP members really did want to spend $50,000 to impress a bunch of strangers.
If we view intelligence from a perspective of subjective hindsight we are always going to come up with messed up conclusions. It's ok if you do it on your own, but as a group it makes coherent dialogue impossible.
European Central Bank
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1288
Merit: 1080



View Profile
March 23, 2017, 10:24:26 PM
 #271

Ok, maybe, but it was also a transaction made by someone that never believed bitcoin would be worth very much. Just like all the 50 btc VIP forum members. Either that or all the VIP members really did want to spend $50,000 to impress a bunch of strangers.

man, i dunno. it's so hard to put yourself into the mind of someone who was around back then. the level of legitimacy today would seem like 100 years in the future 5 years ago.

and pizza guy paid next to nothing in electricity for those coins so why not try doing something real world with it? i think i read somewhere he mined something like 120,000 coins.
QuestionAuthority
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2086
Merit: 1375


You lead and I'll watch you walk away.


View Profile
March 23, 2017, 10:33:37 PM
 #272

Ok, maybe, but it was also a transaction made by someone that never believed bitcoin would be worth very much. Just like all the 50 btc VIP forum members. Either that or all the VIP members really did want to spend $50,000 to impress a bunch of strangers.

man, i dunno. it's so hard to put yourself into the mind of someone who was around back then. the level of legitimacy today would seem like 100 years in the future 5 years ago.

and pizza guy paid next to nothing in electricity for those coins so why not try doing something real world with it? i think i read somewhere he mined something like 120,000 coins.

I guess that's one way to look at it. Satoshi Nakamoto and The Winklevoss Twins own more btc than anyone else and never moved the price to get them. With bitcoin lofty ideals, 1% of bitcoiners hold 99% of the wealth. Funny that they bitch about Wall Street doing the same thing.
https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/1-bitcoin-community-controls-99-bitcoin-wealth/

Read this report on the wealth of Satoshi Nakamoto. He's never bought a pizza or anything for that matter.
https://bitslog.wordpress.com/2013/04/17/the-well-deserved-fortune-of-satoshi-nakamoto/

muyuu
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 966
Merit: 1000



View Profile
March 23, 2017, 10:50:05 PM
 #273

I'm still in disbelief about this. He cannot be so tilted, or can he? I'd rather swap my BTC 1:1 with PepeCash tokens than BTU. It has zero prospects at this point.

Reminder that if there's a pool I'm in, would like to know a bit in advance to go for the cold storage.

GPG ID: 7294199D - OTC ID: muyuu (470F97EB7294199D)
forum tea fund BTC 1Epv7KHbNjYzqYVhTCgXWYhGSkv7BuKGEU DOGE DF1eTJ2vsxjHpmmbKu9jpqsrg5uyQLWksM CAP F1MzvmmHwP2UhFq82NQT7qDU9NQ8oQbtkQ
jonald_fyookball
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1302
Merit: 1002


Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political


View Profile
March 23, 2017, 11:18:17 PM
 #274

everyone keeps saying "BTU BTU"...BU may be a huge part of the catalyst that gets us to bigger blocks, but if it does, there will be many different compatible implementations (Classic, XT, Core,etc) all taking part.  In fact, there may be a larger kind of 'emergent consensus' coming as there is a new talk planned for May.  We may have >1MB coming, but it won't necessarily be "BTU".  It will be interesting to see how the exchanges treat futures tokens or what the OP would think of that -- i'm pretty sure Ver and Loaded are smart enough to realize these dynamics though for their deal.


dooglus
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2688
Merit: 1145



View Profile
March 23, 2017, 11:24:26 PM
 #275

You couldn't possibly be so uninformed that you've never heard of off-book buying so I'm not even going to respond to that one.

You tried telling us that we could have bought 10 million Bitcoins for one cent each. That isn't true. Even "off-book" by the time 10 million Bitcoin existed they were trading for a thousand times more than that.

BTW, Bruno was looking for you. Did you guys ever connect?

I've not heard from him for a long time, no. He can PM me here or on reddit if he wants to talk to me.

Just like all the 50 btc VIP forum members. Either that or all the VIP members really did want to spend $50,000 to impress a bunch of strangers.

It wasn't $50k at the time. Anyone wanting to be a VIP member could have easily bought the 50 BTC membership and instantly rebought the 50 BTC at market prices - $5 each or whatever it was back then. It was never about spending $50k to impress a bunch of strangers.

Just-Dice                 ██             
          ██████████         
      ██████████████████     
  ██████████████████████████ 
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
    ██████████████████████   
        ██████████████       
            ██████           
   Play or Invest                 ██             
          ██████████         
      ██████████████████     
  ██████████████████████████ 
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████
    ██████████████████████   
        ██████████████       
            ██████           
   1% House Edge
smoothie
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2128
Merit: 1016


LEALANA Monero Physical Silver Coins


View Profile
March 23, 2017, 11:38:34 PM
 #276

Not a XMR hater, just pointing out facts. I think the coin got good tech, but I don't see how it solves the scaling problem at all.

And the fact is, blocksize increases solve the capacity problem, at the exact same scale. Blocksize increases do not change the scale at all.

Big blockers really don't like this fact, which is why they have never dared refute it.

Dynamic block sizes solve block scalability.

Privacy isn't free. There are trade offs.

Seems people forget this when they are used to the concept of the welfare state giving them a free lunch.


███████████████████████████████████████

            ,╓p@@███████@╗╖,           
        ,p████████████████████N,       
      d█████████████████████████b     
    d██████████████████████████████æ   
  ,████²█████████████████████████████, 
 ,█████  ╙████████████████████╨  █████y
 ██████    `████████████████`    ██████
║██████       Ñ███████████`      ███████
███████         ╩██████Ñ         ███████
███████    ▐▄     ²██╩     a▌    ███████
╢██████    ▐▓█▄          ▄█▓▌    ███████
 ██████    ▐▓▓▓▓▌,     ▄█▓▓▓▌    ██████─
           ▐▓▓▓▓▓▓█,,▄▓▓▓▓▓▓▌          
           ▐▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▌          
    ▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓─  
     ²▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓╩    
        ▀▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▀       
           ²▀▀▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▀▀`          
                   ²²²                 
███████████████████████████████████████

. ★☆ WWW.LEALANA.COM        My PGP fingerprint is A764D833.                  History of Monero development Visualization ★☆ .
LEALANA  PHYSICAL MONERO COINS 999 FINE SILVER.
 
kelsey
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1820
Merit: 1000


View Profile
March 24, 2017, 01:10:42 AM
 #277

Do you really think that the people who bought BTC cheap and held it all these years through the highs and lows were just "lucky"?

from experience most who held (from lows to highs) did so because they forgot about btc or ignored it for years LOL
notthematrix
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 963
Merit: 1000


The All-in-One Cryptocurrency Exchange


View Profile
March 24, 2017, 01:12:49 AM
 #278

notthematrix, the link to the video was in every post you have quoted of mine so far.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtDTNA85rm4

See the comments. 4th comment down.

Are you a bought account? It seems like not long ago that you could write and read.


Oke found the message 24h later now.....
But still NO SIGNED COMMITMENT Smiley
ver can post anything , does not mean he does it , I see no commitment in form of a SIGNED transaction message

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/60ozkh/rogerver_lets_make_a_deal_1_for_1_trade_at_least/



so everybody can check for them self on the bitcoin command line!! Smiley
As explained here!

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/60ozkh/rogerver_lets_make_a_deal_1_for_1_trade_at_least/

So I come back tomorow to see any progress!!! , to me it looks like Roger is a JOKE
like BU is a JOKE! Smiley



Still no signed proposal from Roger Ver 
For every hour that passes this guy becomes more of a Joke.
Because math is so much stronger then rhetoric.
Still waiting..... Smiley



██████
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
                ▄███
              ▄███▌ █
             ▀▀▀██▄  █
           ▄███▄▄ ▀▀▀█
          █ █████▀▀▀▄▄
         ▄██ ███▄    █
        ▐███▀   ▀█   █
        ████     █   █
       ▄██▀▄█▄▄▄█▀   █
       ▀▄▄███▌      █
   ▄▄▄▀▀▀████       █
 ▄▀    ██ ██       █
▐▌     ██▌▐▌      ▀▄
█      ██ █         ▀▄
█      █▀▄▌          █
█   ▄▀█▄██           █
█ ▄▀      ▀▀▄▄▀▄     █
▀▀             █    █
               █  ▄▀
               ▀▄█
     ▀█████████████▄▄
  ▀ ▀▀▀███████████████▌
   ▀ ▀▀▀▀██▀▀▀▀▀▀██████         ▄███████▄      ▄▄███████▄    ▄███▄    ▄███▄ ▄███▄      ▄███▄
▀ ▀▀▀▀█████▄▄▄▄▄▄█████▌       ▄████▀▀▀████▄   ▐████▀▀█████   ▀████▄  ▄████▀ █████▄    ▄█████
    ▀▀███████████████▀       █████     ████▌          ████▌    ▀████████▀    █████▄  ▄█████▌
   ▀ ▀████████████████▀ ▀    ██████████████▌   ▄▄██████████     ▄██████▄      █████▄▄█████▌
     ██████      ██▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ ▀ █████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀    █████▀▀▀█████    ▄████████▄      ██████████▌
     ██████▄▄▄▄▄▄██████▄ ▄    ████▄▄   ▄▄█▄   ████▄  ▄█████  ▄█████▀▀█████▄     ████████▌
     █████████████████▀        ▀███████████   ▀████████████  ████▀    ▀████      ██████▌
     ██████████████▀▀             ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀       ▀▀▀▀▀▀ ▀▀▀    ▀▀        ▀▀        █████
                                                                                ▄█████
                                                                            ▄███████▀
                                                                            ▀████▀▀
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
██████
|█████████████████
███████████████████
█████████████████████
███████████████████████
███████████████████████
███████████████████████
███████████████████████
███████████████████████
███████████████████████
███████████████████████
███████████████████████
███████████████████████
███████████████████████
  WHITEPAPER 
  LIGHTPAPER...
|Instant Deposit
✓ 24/7 Support
Referral Program
jonald_fyookball
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1302
Merit: 1002


Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political


View Profile
March 24, 2017, 01:17:34 AM
 #279

Who cares if he didn't sign it.  Obviously its him unless you believe someone hacked his youtube and bitcointalk account. 

Raize
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1417
Merit: 1008


View Profile
March 24, 2017, 01:21:12 AM
 #280

Not everyone was stupid enough to buy a pizza with thousands of mined bitcoins.

that's a transaction that deserves everyone's respect. we might not be here if it hadn't happened.

Ok, maybe, but it was also a transaction made by someone that never believed bitcoin would be worth very much. Just like all the 50 btc VIP forum members. Either that or all the VIP members really did want to spend $50,000 to impress a bunch of strangers.

Whoa, whoa, wait a minute. That's not true for everyone, and even laszlo possibly had an inkling of an ulterior motive with his purchase. Did you ever read laszlo's account of Satoshi's response to him having started GPU mining? Here's a link.

Basically, laszlo had mined far more than the 10k coin using a GPU. Satoshi encouraged him that a more widespread adoption would help grow the network and adoption rates. Here's what he said (we don't really have proof this was Satoshi, but laszlo didn't really have reason to make it up)

Quote
A big attraction to new users is that anyone with a computer can generate some free coins. When there are 5000 users, that incentive may fade, but for now it's still true.

GPUs would prematurely limit the incentive to only those with high end GPU hardware. It's inevitable that GPU compute clusters will eventually hog all the generated coins, but I don't want to hasten that day. If the difficulty gets really high, that increases the value of each coin in a way since the supply becomes more limited. The supply is the same: 50 coins every 10 minutes.

But GPUs are much less evenly distributed, so the generated coins only go towards rewarding 20% of the people for joining the network instead of 100%.

I don't mean to sound like a socialist, I don't care if wealth is concentrated, but for now, we get more growth by giving that money to 100% of the people than giving it to 20%. Also, the longer we can delay the GPU arms race, the more mature the OpenCL libraries get, and the more people will have OpenCL compatible video cards. If we see from the difficulty factor that someone is using too much GPU, we can certainly pick this OpenCL stuff up again then. Maybe my effort to maintain GPU innocence is running out of time. It's worked out so far.

What laszlo probably saw, that others at the time hadn't really considered, was that doing an actual transaction with the coin might have the effect of gaining wider exposure for the coin, which let him do more pizza trades. So supposing he had a lot of coin, he could set a bunch of it aside for pizza trades to grow adoption, while keeping the rest of it as a stash that would grow over time. As he even would go on to say...

Quote
3-4 years ago there were less than 100 people frequenting this forum, and I was pretty happy to trade 10,000 coins for pizza.  I mean people can say I'm stupid, but it was a great deal at the time.  I don't think anyone could have known it would take off like this.

He claims he's sold out all of this coins, but he very well may have stashed some away that he holds onto and just tells people its all gone. That's what I would have done had I been lucky enough to be one of the first GPU miners. I mean, imagine all the people that had at least 100 bitcoin when it hit $1000 in 2013. Were they stupid for having sold at least some of it? If you'd asked that question in 2014 or early 2015, the answer would have been a definite "no". But by today's standards was it stupid? Maybe? It's hard to say with the price where it is. Five years from now? Probably, but we're still not sure, network dominance in the cryptocurrency space might be a fleeting prospect.

I get what you're saying, though, it's unlikely that Laszlo repurchased or started GPU farming coin at the $2 bottom in 2011, or at the $160 bottom in early 2015, but how many people are really that good at timing anyway? He had a family and wasn't going to keep GPU mining or FPGA mining and his time was probably better invested elsewhere than paying attention to Bitcoin. Not everyone can spend every waking minute on Bitcoin, after all. I guess my contention is with calling him "stupid", he got what he wanted out of it, can't fault him for that.

I donated 10 BTC to help out the forum in 2012, so I'm an idiot as well, right? Now I don't own a single coin to my name because I spent all $10k worth of that coin I ever owned on the forum... I promise!  Grin

OrganofCorti's Neighbourhood Pool Watch - The most informative website on blockchain health
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 [14] 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!