EOS - Asynchronous Smart Contract Platform - (Dan Larimer of Bitshares/Steem)

[yugu]

Guys, don't miss ICOS Box ICO, it closes soon.

[ChromaticStar]

While I recognize the legal declaration that EOS tokens have no value, has there been any public statements that they will? The potential for EOS seems so huge that almost no one wouldn't invest in it if they could, but this legal stuff is really killing me. That would make this project a total gamble. Did they put that in there just in case the project fails to cover their asses, or do they really intend to issue EOS coins once they have a working blockchain platform?

[key_z]

While I recognize the legal declaration that EOS tokens have no value, has there been any public statements that they will?

To my knowledge they haven't made any public statements that they will - it seems as though it would contradict the intentional steps they've taken as precautionary measures.

Two possible approaches:

• Gamble on the promise with the hopes of being rewarded with a gain that is commensurate with the additional risk taken

or

• Wait until after the official EOS blockchain is released next summer and acquire actual EOS tokens/coins. You'll miss you on some gains but surely not the bulk of long-term value

Given that block.one/Dan seem to be motivated more by creating a game-changing platform than by making investors wealthy, I don't think there is a high likelihood of them providing any statement to allay the fears of prospective investors.

[CryptoRobert]

I understand the ICO will end in 15 hours? Any clues on when it will be on exhcanges and which ones?

[ChromaticStar]

While I recognize the legal declaration that EOS tokens have no value, has there been any public statements that they will?

To my knowledge they haven't made any public statements that they will - it seems as though it would contradict the intentional steps they've taken as precautionary measures.

Two possible approaches:

• Gamble on the promise with the hopes of being rewarded with a gain that is commensurate with the additional risk taken

or

• Wait until after the official EOS blockchain is released next summer and acquire actual EOS tokens/coins. You'll miss you on some gains but surely not the bulk of long-term value

Given that block.one/Dan seem to be motivated more by creating a game-changing platform than by making investors wealthy, I don't think there is a high likelihood of them providing any statement to allay the fears of prospective investors.

I'm thinking I might have to take a chance on this after more supply comes to market and pushes down the price further. The dynamics of this ICO make it like the minable currencies with inflation. I suppose once over 1/2 the coins have been issued but before blockchain launch, it might be an optimal time to buy at reduced price. If they truly do force EOS token buyers to become bagholders, they would destroy their public reputations forever and no one will use their platform. They have to be worth something. Considering they're issuing 90% of token publicly, I would hope that means we get 90% of the EOS coins once the blockchain goes live.

[ChromaticStar]

I understand the ICO will end in 15 hours? Any clues on when it will be on exhcanges and which ones?

This is a year long ICO. You can already buy them on exchanges. Bitfinex, HitBTC, Kraken, EtherDelta to name a few.

[5thangel]

I understand the ICO will end in 15 hours? Any clues on when it will be on exhcanges and which ones?

Where did you get this information from anyway? Always good to take some time and do little bit research.

[Rogerdale]

I understand the ICO will end in 15 hours? Any clues on when it will be on exhcanges and which ones?

This is a year long ICO. You can already buy them on exchanges. Bitfinex, HitBTC, Kraken, EtherDelta to name a few.

By the way, EOS has been delisted from Jubi, Yunbi and Yuanbao. Maybe not be a big deal, but anyway...

Also NEO took the refund requirement quite seriously: https://neo.org/Blog/Details/64

Will EOS give investors a refund option (especially to those who bought tokens at high prices in the early rounds of ICO)?

[CryptoRobert]

I understand the ICO will end in 15 hours? Any clues on when it will be on exhcanges and which ones?

Where did you get this information from anyway? Always good to take some time and do little bit research.

I had seen the timer on the  ICO page of their website showing just 15 hours left and I thoought that asking here would be the fastest way to get an answer. I was right Now I'm doing the research.

[Red_Sanford]

I understand the ICO will end in 15 hours? Any clues on when it will be on exhcanges and which ones?

This is a year long ICO. You can already buy them on exchanges. Bitfinex, HitBTC, Kraken, EtherDelta to name a few.

By the way, EOS has been delisted from Jubi, Yunbi and Yuanbao. Maybe not be a big deal, but anyway...

Also NEO took the refund requirement quite seriously: https://neo.org/Blog/Details/64

Will EOS give investors a refund option (especially to those who bought tokens at high prices in the early rounds of ICO)?

Any ideas on Bitfinex ? It is located in Hong Kong but it is unclear which Chinese laws they follow

[Rogerdale]

I understand the ICO will end in 15 hours? Any clues on when it will be on exhcanges and which ones?

This is a year long ICO. You can already buy them on exchanges. Bitfinex, HitBTC, Kraken, EtherDelta to name a few.

By the way, EOS has been delisted from Jubi, Yunbi and Yuanbao. Maybe not be a big deal, but anyway...

Also NEO took the refund requirement quite seriously: https://neo.org/Blog/Details/64

Will EOS give investors a refund option (especially to those who bought tokens at high prices in the early rounds of ICO)?

Any ideas on Bitfinex ? It is located in Hong Kong but it is unclear which Chinese laws they follow

It is unclear, but there is a statement from Hong Kong regulators that ICO tokens may be classified as securities:

https://www.coindesk.com/hong-kong-regulator-warns-ico-tokens-may-securities/

Looks like Hong Kong companies don't follow mainland China regulators right away, but the Chinese regulator may have some power over Hong Kong one.

[HR]

While I recognize the legal declaration that EOS tokens have no value, has there been any public statements that they will? The potential for EOS seems so huge that almost no one wouldn't invest in it if they could, but this legal stuff is really killing me. That would make this project a total gamble. Did they put that in there just in case the project fails to cover their asses, or do they really intend to issue EOS coins once they have a working blockchain platform?

To my knowledge they haven't made any public statements that they will - it seems as though it would contradict the intentional steps they've taken as precautionary measures.

Two possible approaches:

• Gamble on the promise with the hopes of being rewarded with a gain that is commensurate with the additional risk taken

or

• Wait until after the official EOS blockchain is released next summer and acquire actual EOS tokens/coins. You'll miss you on some gains but surely not the bulk of long-term value

Given that block.one/Dan seem to be motivated more by creating a game-changing platform than by making investors wealthy, I don't think there is a high likelihood of them providing any statement to allay the fears of prospective investors.

Not trolling, but there are a couple of details that I think should be added to this.

FAQ https://eos.io/faq.html

2. Who is building the EOS.IO Software?

"block.one, a Cayman Islands exempted company,"

23. Where do the proceeds from the EOS Token distribution go?

"Proceeds from the EOS Token distribution will be the revenue of block.one."


One of the big philosophical debates surrounding STEEM was whether or not you can call something a scam if they are openly telling you exactly what they're doing? STEEM ended up with a hugely unfair initial distribution and continues to be heavily skewed towards those who benefited from that very overt intentional "fast mine", but is recovering as early "whales" are cashing out (Dan Larimer included - https://steemdown.com/ ) and will likely do quite well in the future even though a very few made off with the early riches. Everything here looks very similar, perhaps even a little "shadier" since with this one you're betting solely on the man's "good word", and that in spite of there not being a single word out of his mouth about it.

Just saying. It is what it is.

[ChromaticStar]

While I recognize the legal declaration that EOS tokens have no value, has there been any public statements that they will? The potential for EOS seems so huge that almost no one wouldn't invest in it if they could, but this legal stuff is really killing me. That would make this project a total gamble. Did they put that in there just in case the project fails to cover their asses, or do they really intend to issue EOS coins once they have a working blockchain platform?

To my knowledge they haven't made any public statements that they will - it seems as though it would contradict the intentional steps they've taken as precautionary measures.

Two possible approaches:

• Gamble on the promise with the hopes of being rewarded with a gain that is commensurate with the additional risk taken

or

• Wait until after the official EOS blockchain is released next summer and acquire actual EOS tokens/coins. You'll miss you on some gains but surely not the bulk of long-term value

Given that block.one/Dan seem to be motivated more by creating a game-changing platform than by making investors wealthy, I don't think there is a high likelihood of them providing any statement to allay the fears of prospective investors.

Not trolling, but there are a couple of details that I think should be added to this.

FAQ https://eos.io/faq.html

2. Who is building the EOS.IO Software?

"block.one, a Cayman Islands exempted company,"

23. Where do the proceeds from the EOS Token distribution go?

"Proceeds from the EOS Token distribution will be the revenue of block.one."


One of the big philosophical debates surrounding STEEM was whether or not you can call something a scam if they are openly telling you exactly what they're doing? STEEM ended up with a hugely unfair initial distribution and continues to be heavily skewed towards those who benefited from that very overt intentional "fast mine", but is recovering as early "whales" are cashing out (Dan Larimer included - https://steemdown.com/ ) and will likely do quite well in the future even though a very few made off with the early riches. Everything here looks very similar, perhaps even a little "shadier" since with this one you're betting solely on the man's "good word", and that in spite of there not being a single word out of his mouth about it.

Just saying. It is what it is.

It's really hard to say. Larimer has built some great platforms in the past, but he has also scammed people in the past. I'd really hate to miss out on a successful launch of potentially the best blockchain project of all time, but I kind of suspect something about this is too good to be true. Ethereum was supposed to be a scam too, but it's second only to Bitcoin now.

I'm keeping my eye on it. I'll probably pick some up on EtherDelta at some point and hope for the best.

[yugu]

Two possible approaches:

• Gamble on the promise with the hopes of being rewarded with a gain that is commensurate with the additional risk taken

or

• Wait until after the official EOS blockchain is released next summer and acquire actual EOS tokens/coins. You'll miss you on some gains but surely not the bulk of long-term value

But don't forget, if you pick to wait for major release you may lose the opportunity to get really high gains
The difference could be 20x growth for the first choice and 50x for the second one. It is a huge difference.

[beberano]

wwhy eos falling ?

[ChromaticStar]

wwhy eos falling ?

The ICO is a year long. There are new EOS tokens being issued every day for a year. The increasing supply is effectively inflation pushing the price down. You could wait to buy later since the price will likely continue to fall. There is a cap on the supply of 1 billion tokens and 1/3 have already been issued. Once most of the supply has been issued, that may put a floor under the market.

[key_z]

I'm thinking I might have to take a chance on this after more supply comes to market and pushes down the price further. The dynamics of this ICO make it like the minable currencies with inflation. I suppose once over 1/2 the coins have been issued but before blockchain launch, it might be an optimal time to buy at reduced price. If they truly do force EOS token buyers to become bagholders, they would destroy their public reputations forever and no one will use their platform. They have to be worth something. Considering they're issuing 90% of token publicly, I would hope that means we get 90% of the EOS coins once the blockchain goes live.

Yeah, I definitely think everyone has to do some form of that calculus in their own heads. It’s tough because there are competing factors that could influence it. For example, if you hold all development and news as a non-factor, the supply increase that you mention will likely drive the price down. However, you have to weigh that out against the possibility of other factors raising the price between now and the middle of next year - anything from the September release of the testnet being a success to the simple notion that more people will find out about EOS. Not to mention other influencing factors such as regulatory changes, correlation to the total crypto market, etc.

For me personally, I’ve chosen not to spend my time trying to calculate the perfect time/price of entry. Instead, I’m much more interested in determining whether I want to participate at all (FWIW, I do) by evaluating the project on the basis of the value it’s attempting to bring to the market and the likelihood of that happening successfully. Based on the outcome of that analysis, I set an allocation to EOS and dollar cost average my way there. I figure that if the project is successful, it won’t matter nearly as much (note: I’m not saying “doesn’t matter at all”) whether I’m in at $0.80 or $1.00 or $1.50.

Two possible approaches:

• Gamble on the promise with the hopes of being rewarded with a gain that is commensurate with the additional risk taken

or

• Wait until after the official EOS blockchain is released next summer and acquire actual EOS tokens/coins. You'll miss you on some gains but surely not the bulk of long-term value

But don't forget, if you pick to wait for major release you may lose the opportunity to get really high gains
The difference could be 20x growth for the first choice and 50x for the second one. It is a huge difference.

Yes, we are in agreement. That difference of ~30x that you mention is what I was referencing by the “gain that is commensurate with the additional risk taken.”

In the context of the entire investment world, those multiples (the 20x or the 50x) hardly exist outside of VC investing and even then, only for the very best. It’s hard to measure the risk-adjusted return of crypto investing but even that fact notwithstanding, I have a hard time seeing a 20x as anything other than an absolute investment grand-slam.

[key_z]

wwhy eos falling ?

The ICO is a year long. There are new EOS tokens being issued every day for a year. The increasing supply is effectively inflation pushing the price down. You could wait to buy later since the price will likely continue to fall. There is a cap on the supply of 1 billion tokens and 1/3 have already been issued. Once most of the supply has been issued, that may put a floor under the market.

It's true that what you're describing (in a vacuum) will produce a downward pressure on the market price of EOS over time. However, I'm assuming that beberano is asking about the recent price swing of EOS (aka, -30% downtrend in the past 48 hrs). Seems like that's less about the supply inflation and more about the PRC announcement banning ICOs.

beberano - here's some reading to catch you up: Coindesk: China Outlaws ICOs

[Red_Sanford]

I understand the ICO will end in 15 hours? Any clues on when it will be on exhcanges and which ones?

This is a year long ICO. You can already buy them on exchanges. Bitfinex, HitBTC, Kraken, EtherDelta to name a few.

By the way, EOS has been delisted from Jubi, Yunbi and Yuanbao. Maybe not be a big deal, but anyway...

Also NEO took the refund requirement quite seriously: https://neo.org/Blog/Details/64

Will EOS give investors a refund option (especially to those who bought tokens at high prices in the early rounds of ICO)?

Any ideas on Bitfinex ? It is located in Hong Kong but it is unclear which Chinese laws they follow

It is unclear, but there is a statement from Hong Kong regulators that ICO tokens may be classified as securities:

https://www.coindesk.com/hong-kong-regulator-warns-ico-tokens-may-securities/

Looks like Hong Kong companies don't follow mainland China regulators right away, but the Chinese regulator may have some power over Hong Kong one.

Considering that Bitfinex has most of the trading volume this might not fare well for the token in the short term. Hopefully the price can rise enough that I can exit my long position and re-enter again at a lower price point

[TOYJJWGS]

eos so that Chinese investors received a loss, Li Xiaolai this approach should be condemned, laughing obviously eos team members, now in order to avoid the risk of his removal, then the loss of investors who bear