EOS - Asynchronous Smart Contract Platform - (Dan Larimer of Bitshares/Steem)

[Afrikoin]

wwhy eos falling ?

The ICO is a year long. There are new EOS tokens being issued every day for a year. The increasing supply is effectively inflation pushing the price down. You could wait to buy later since the price will likely continue to fall. There is a cap on the supply of 1 billion tokens and 1/3 have already been issued. Once most of the supply has been issued, that may put a floor under the market.

this line of argument puzzles me

Only 17 million of 21 million bitcoins have been mined

How much had been mined of the total in 2013?

and 2012?

Did we say this about price and the total supply available vs the cap limit?

Price discovery continued as the protocol developed despite how many coins were left to mine

But we do not make the same argument about bitcoin.

[Afrikoin]

While I recognize the legal declaration that EOS tokens have no value, has there been any public statements that they will? The potential for EOS seems so huge that almost no one wouldn't invest in it if they could, but this legal stuff is really killing me. That would make this project a total gamble. Did they put that in there just in case the project fails to cover their asses, or do they really intend to issue EOS coins once they have a working blockchain platform?

To my knowledge they haven't made any public statements that they will - it seems as though it would contradict the intentional steps they've taken as precautionary measures.

Two possible approaches:

• Gamble on the promise with the hopes of being rewarded with a gain that is commensurate with the additional risk taken

or

• Wait until after the official EOS blockchain is released next summer and acquire actual EOS tokens/coins. You'll miss you on some gains but surely not the bulk of long-term value

Given that block.one/Dan seem to be motivated more by creating a game-changing platform than by making investors wealthy, I don't think there is a high likelihood of them providing any statement to allay the fears of prospective investors.

Not trolling, but there are a couple of details that I think should be added to this.

FAQ https://eos.io/faq.html

2. Who is building the EOS.IO Software?

"block.one, a Cayman Islands exempted company,"

23. Where do the proceeds from the EOS Token distribution go?

"Proceeds from the EOS Token distribution will be the revenue of block.one."


One of the big philosophical debates surrounding STEEM was whether or not you can call something a scam if they are openly telling you exactly what they're doing? STEEM ended up with a hugely unfair initial distribution and continues to be heavily skewed towards those who benefited from that very overt intentional "fast mine", but is recovering as early "whales" are cashing out (Dan Larimer included - https://steemdown.com/ ) and will likely do quite well in the future even though a very few made off with the early riches. Everything here looks very similar, perhaps even a little "shadier" since with this one you're betting solely on the man's "good word", and that in spite of there not being a single word out of his mouth about it.

Just saying. It is what it is.

noted, thanks for sharing.

could you go into more details about

" STEEM ended up with a hugely unfair initial distribution and continues to be heavily skewed towards those who benefited from that very overt intentional "fast mine"" ??

or point me to a link?

[Afrikoin]

While I recognize the legal declaration that EOS tokens have no value, has there been any public statements that they will? The potential for EOS seems so huge that almost no one wouldn't invest in it if they could, but this legal stuff is really killing me. That would make this project a total gamble. Did they put that in there just in case the project fails to cover their asses, or do they really intend to issue EOS coins once they have a working blockchain platform?

To my knowledge they haven't made any public statements that they will - it seems as though it would contradict the intentional steps they've taken as precautionary measures.

Two possible approaches:

• Gamble on the promise with the hopes of being rewarded with a gain that is commensurate with the additional risk taken

or

• Wait until after the official EOS blockchain is released next summer and acquire actual EOS tokens/coins. You'll miss you on some gains but surely not the bulk of long-term value

Given that block.one/Dan seem to be motivated more by creating a game-changing platform than by making investors wealthy, I don't think there is a high likelihood of them providing any statement to allay the fears of prospective investors.

Not trolling, but there are a couple of details that I think should be added to this.

FAQ https://eos.io/faq.html

2. Who is building the EOS.IO Software?

"block.one, a Cayman Islands exempted company,"

23. Where do the proceeds from the EOS Token distribution go?

"Proceeds from the EOS Token distribution will be the revenue of block.one."


One of the big philosophical debates surrounding STEEM was whether or not you can call something a scam if they are openly telling you exactly what they're doing? STEEM ended up with a hugely unfair initial distribution and continues to be heavily skewed towards those who benefited from that very overt intentional "fast mine", but is recovering as early "whales" are cashing out (Dan Larimer included - https://steemdown.com/ ) and will likely do quite well in the future even though a very few made off with the early riches. Everything here looks very similar, perhaps even a little "shadier" since with this one you're betting solely on the man's "good word", and that in spite of there not being a single word out of his mouth about it.

Just saying. It is what it is.

It's really hard to say. Larimer has built some great platforms in the past, but he has also scammed people in the past. I'd really hate to miss out on a successful launch of potentially the best blockchain project of all time, but I kind of suspect something about this is too good to be true. Ethereum was supposed to be a scam too, but it's second only to Bitcoin now.

I'm keeping my eye on it. I'll probably pick some up on EtherDelta at some point and hope for the best.

3rd time's a charm?

there is something about this project that reminds a lot about the same feeling i had when i came across bitcoin.

Looking around the interwebs, there are over 80% of the crypto space who are skeptical (my subjective rough estimate).

This project is highly undervalued and the founders seem to know it. They are oozing a lot of confidence.

i just had a look at steem historical price chart and the highest price was 17X from the lowest price (in under a year)

if EOS lives up to what is on paper, this could easily shoot up 3X (17X) in a couple of years. This is not unreasonable as comparing to Ethereum $30b+ market at its peak.

i am yet to come across any convincing arguments against EOS. most border on - Dan and "its impossible, i'll believe it when i see it"

some of us, have more information than others.

myself, i want to put in as much $$ as i can. I am hoping the price stays low long enough to back myself a decent amount.

I am looking at 20X as the minimum expectations

30X - 40X as reasonable

50X - 100X if it works as expected

[Wekkel]

I am looking at 20X as the minimum expectations

30X - 40X as reasonable

50X - 100X if it works as expected

Now we are talking  

If EOS (if working as planned) would not bring these multipliers, the market for ICOs could be considered dead. But there are no guarantees for the future. This is similar to investing in a Bitcoin in 2011 on the back of a $32 bubble. It is a bit of a gamble.

[Rogerdale]

I am looking at 20X as the minimum expectations

30X - 40X as reasonable

50X - 100X if it works as expected

What if EOS fails? There are numerous projects that couldn't finish their product because of technical issues?
What if EOS doesn't get its market share, because it will all be taken by Ethereum, Stratis and NEO?

[HR]

noted, thanks for sharing.

could you go into more details about

" STEEM ended up with a hugely unfair initial distribution and continues to be heavily skewed towards those who benefited from that very overt intentional "fast mine"" ??

or point me to a link?

Gees, you know, I did a google search for "Steem fastmine" and the first related return (2nd in the list of results) takes you to a very representative post. As you'll find, there were/are various threads on the subject, but I thought it quite coincidental that this particular post came back as my first search result. Since there is no one place where this is "documented", you'll need to research and do some reading.

Since it seems a little unbelievable, I'm going to post the google search and let you click on "Steemit how can this thing be workable long term? - Bitcoin Talk" yourself. EDIT: since the results change a bit with the link posted, I've linked the post directly. Still only just a starting point for you.

https://www.google.com/search?dcr=0&source=hp&q=steem+fastmine&oq=steem+fastmine&gs_l=psy-ab.3..35i39k1.1394.1394.0.2480.2.1.0.0.0.0.136.136.0j1.1.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..1.1.134.0.XykvCfNL-8s


As an aside, it's interesting to see how Steemit is actually overcoming all those initial obstacles to success that jwinterm (a long time and well respected BCT contributor) mentioned in that post - it truly speaks to just how good the base product really is. I guess the hope here is that we'll end up saying something similar someday about EOS.  

[Afrikoin]

noted, thanks for sharing.

could you go into more details about

" STEEM ended up with a hugely unfair initial distribution and continues to be heavily skewed towards those who benefited from that very overt intentional "fast mine"" ??

or point me to a link?

Gees, you know, I did a google search for "Steem fastmine" and the first related return (2nd in the list of results) takes you to a very representative post. As you'll find, there were/are various threads on the subject, but I thought it quite coincidental that this particular post came back as my first search result. Since there is no one place where this is "documented", you'll need to research and do some reading.

Since it seems a little unbelievable, I'm going to post the google search and let you click on "Steemit how can this thing be workable long term? - Bitcoin Talk" yourself. EDIT: since the results change a bit with the link posted, I've linked the post directly. Still only just a starting point for you.

https://www.google.com/search?dcr=0&source=hp&q=steem+fastmine&oq=steem+fastmine&gs_l=psy-ab.3..35i39k1.1394.1394.0.2480.2.1.0.0.0.0.136.136.0j1.1.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..1.1.134.0.XykvCfNL-8s


As an aside, it's interesting to see how Steemit is actually overcoming all those initial obstacles to success that jwinterm (a long time and well respected BCT contributor) mentioned in that post - it truly speaks to just how good the base product really is. I guess the hope here is that we'll end up saying something similar someday about EOS.  

we will

[ChromaticStar]

While I recognize the legal declaration that EOS tokens have no value, has there been any public statements that they will? The potential for EOS seems so huge that almost no one wouldn't invest in it if they could, but this legal stuff is really killing me. That would make this project a total gamble. Did they put that in there just in case the project fails to cover their asses, or do they really intend to issue EOS coins once they have a working blockchain platform?

To my knowledge they haven't made any public statements that they will - it seems as though it would contradict the intentional steps they've taken as precautionary measures.

Two possible approaches:

• Gamble on the promise with the hopes of being rewarded with a gain that is commensurate with the additional risk taken

or

• Wait until after the official EOS blockchain is released next summer and acquire actual EOS tokens/coins. You'll miss you on some gains but surely not the bulk of long-term value

Given that block.one/Dan seem to be motivated more by creating a game-changing platform than by making investors wealthy, I don't think there is a high likelihood of them providing any statement to allay the fears of prospective investors.

Not trolling, but there are a couple of details that I think should be added to this.

FAQ https://eos.io/faq.html

2. Who is building the EOS.IO Software?

"block.one, a Cayman Islands exempted company,"

23. Where do the proceeds from the EOS Token distribution go?

"Proceeds from the EOS Token distribution will be the revenue of block.one."


One of the big philosophical debates surrounding STEEM was whether or not you can call something a scam if they are openly telling you exactly what they're doing? STEEM ended up with a hugely unfair initial distribution and continues to be heavily skewed towards those who benefited from that very overt intentional "fast mine", but is recovering as early "whales" are cashing out (Dan Larimer included - https://steemdown.com/ ) and will likely do quite well in the future even though a very few made off with the early riches. Everything here looks very similar, perhaps even a little "shadier" since with this one you're betting solely on the man's "good word", and that in spite of there not being a single word out of his mouth about it.

Just saying. It is what it is.

It's really hard to say. Larimer has built some great platforms in the past, but he has also scammed people in the past. I'd really hate to miss out on a successful launch of potentially the best blockchain project of all time, but I kind of suspect something about this is too good to be true. Ethereum was supposed to be a scam too, but it's second only to Bitcoin now.

I'm keeping my eye on it. I'll probably pick some up on EtherDelta at some point and hope for the best.

3rd time's a charm?

there is something about this project that reminds a lot about the same feeling i had when i came across bitcoin.

Looking around the interwebs, there are over 80% of the crypto space who are skeptical (my subjective rough estimate).

This project is highly undervalued and the founders seem to know it. They are oozing a lot of confidence.

i just had a look at steem historical price chart and the highest price was 17X from the lowest price (in under a year)

if EOS lives up to what is on paper, this could easily shoot up 3X (17X) in a couple of years. This is not unreasonable as comparing to Ethereum $30b+ market at its peak.

i am yet to come across any convincing arguments against EOS. most border on - Dan and "its impossible, i'll believe it when i see it"

some of us, have more information than others.

myself, i want to put in as much $$ as i can. I am hoping the price stays low long enough to back myself a decent amount.

I am looking at 20X as the minimum expectations

30X - 40X as reasonable

50X - 100X if it works as expected

All I'm saying is it's a gamble. We don't even know what our tokens are going to get us because Larimer hasn't even said. For them, they are just a source of revenue to build their project. The legal disclaimer clearly states they are worthless, so all we can do is gamble that they have some sort of implied value that we don't even know about yet. With BTC, you knew you were getting BTC and it was worth what it was worth; not the same with EOS tokens.

They must have a reason to be shady about it because they would be bringing in loads more money if they would just provided some answers.

I am going to invest in this, but not "as much $$ as I can." Larimer has scammed people before, so I don't want to take too much risk. I assume Larimer is in this project for himself first, not investors. He'll let you make money with him, but only if he makes more.

[key_z]

All I'm saying is it's a gamble. We don't even know what our tokens are going to get us because Larimer hasn't even said. For them, they are just a source of revenue to build their project. The legal disclaimer clearly states they are worthless, so all we can do is gamble that they have some sort of implied value that we don't even know about yet. With BTC, you knew you were getting BTC and it was worth what it was worth; not the same with EOS tokens.

They must have a reason to be shady about it because they would be bringing in loads more money if they would just provided some answers.

I am going to invest in this, but not "as much $$ as I can." Larimer has scammed people before, so I don't want to take too much risk. I assume Larimer is in this project for himself first, not investors. He'll let you make money with him, but only if he makes more.

I'm going to boldly speak for many participants in this thread in agreeing/affirming the notion that putting $ (or BTC  ) into EOS is a gamble. A risky one, in fact. A myriad of circumstances could arise that result in loss of value. Simply nature of the beast and isn't unique to EOS as much as it's an attribute of the whole business of investing in a frontier technology/space.

That said, couple of random thoughts on your comment:

• The crowdsale of EOS tokens isn't a source of revenue to build their project - at least that's what Dan stated on the Epicenter podcast (Link here). He said block.one has all the capital they need to develop EOS and the crowdfunding revenue is bock.one profit and capital to build/support the app environment on the EOS network once it's launched. He could be lying but that's what he stated.
• Regarding the legal disclaimer and "they must have a reason to be shady": I may be the rube here but I view this with an Occam's Razor philosophy more than anything else. It seems fairly logical that their actions could simply be explained by the elephant-sized compliance/regulatory risk of what they're trying to do. Could it be a result of shady/ulterior motives? Of course. It just doesn't seem like the most straightforward reason underlying their approach to the ICO/disclaimers
• Regarding Larimer being in the project for himself and his own $: I believe there truly is a diminishing rate of utility as one accumulates vast wealth. I couldn't even begin to guess what Dan's net worth is but I suspect he's got enough to do whatever he wants to do with his time on earth. What's more, some people, contrary to popular belief, are motivated by things beyond accumulating wealth. Maybe it's wanting to make the world a better place. Maybe it's wanting to innovate, create, and do what nobody else has done. Some have other reasons altogether. I don't want to (and can't) know what Dan's motives are. But I can speculate and my gut feeling is that it's something beyond (or at the very least, in addition to) accumulating wealth. But that's just one dummy's feelings. Also, we have to consider the fact that Dan's partners (Brendan, Ian, et al.) have staked their reputation to this project as much as Dan has. So if it is a nefarious cash-grab, they are either being duped too or are complicit in something that will likely ruin their professional reputation.

Just my $0.02

-Kesey

[Afrikoin]

[Wekkel]

"the foundation for the entire web".

Visionaries will have vision. Others will see visionaries having vision. The rest will see nothing.

[ChromaticStar]

All I'm saying is it's a gamble. We don't even know what our tokens are going to get us because Larimer hasn't even said. For them, they are just a source of revenue to build their project. The legal disclaimer clearly states they are worthless, so all we can do is gamble that they have some sort of implied value that we don't even know about yet. With BTC, you knew you were getting BTC and it was worth what it was worth; not the same with EOS tokens.

They must have a reason to be shady about it because they would be bringing in loads more money if they would just provided some answers.

I am going to invest in this, but not "as much $$ as I can." Larimer has scammed people before, so I don't want to take too much risk. I assume Larimer is in this project for himself first, not investors. He'll let you make money with him, but only if he makes more.

I'm going to boldly speak for many participants in this thread in agreeing/affirming the notion that putting $ (or BTC  ) into EOS is a gamble. A risky one, in fact. A myriad of circumstances could arise that result in loss of value. Simply nature of the beast and isn't unique to EOS as much as it's an attribute of the whole business of investing in a frontier technology/space.

That said, couple of random thoughts on your comment:

• The crowdsale of EOS tokens isn't a source of revenue to build their project - at least that's what Dan stated on the Epicenter podcast (Link here). He said block.one has all the capital they need to develop EOS and the crowdfunding revenue is bock.one profit and capital to build/support the app environment on the EOS network once it's launched. He could be lying but that's what he stated.
• Regarding the legal disclaimer and "they must have a reason to be shady": I may be the rube here but I view this with an Occam's Razor philosophy more than anything else. It seems fairly logical that their actions could simply be explained by the elephant-sized compliance/regulatory risk of what they're trying to do. Could it be a result of shady/ulterior motives? Of course. It just doesn't seem like the most straightforward reason underlying their approach to the ICO/disclaimers
• Regarding Larimer being in the project for himself and his own $: I believe there truly is a diminishing rate of utility as one accumulates vast wealth. I couldn't even begin to guess what Dan's net worth is but I suspect he's got enough to do whatever he wants to do with his time on earth. What's more, some people, contrary to popular belief, are motivated by things beyond accumulating wealth. Maybe it's wanting to make the world a better place. Maybe it's wanting to innovate, create, and do what nobody else has done. Some have other reasons altogether. I don't want to (and can't) know what Dan's motives are. But I can speculate and my gut feeling is that it's something beyond (or at the very least, in addition to) accumulating wealth. But that's just one dummy's feelings. Also, we have to consider the fact that Dan's partners (Brendan, Ian, et al.) have staked their reputation to this project as much as Dan has. So if it is a nefarious cash-grab, they are either being duped too or are complicit in something that will likely ruin their professional reputation.

Just my $0.02

-Kesey

I'll agree with you and assert that I do not think this is a total scam, take the money and run kind of thing. But it is a black box of unknown. What that unknown is? I guess we will all find out when we get there.

As always, I appreciate honest input from the community. Have we decided what EOS stands for yet? I kind of like Ethereum on Steroids. Any other good ones?

[key_z]

I'll agree with you and assert that I do not think this is a total scam, take the money and run kind of thing. But it is a black box of unknown. What that unknown is? I guess we will all find out when we get there.

Fair enough - can't argue with that.

Have we decided what EOS stands for yet? I kind of like Ethereum on Steroids. Any other good ones?

Epic Operating System?

Also, the definition of "Eos" in Greek mythology is pretty interesting, given the name of the 1.0 release (Dawn):
"In Greek mythology, Eos is a Titaness and the goddess of the dawn, who rose each morning from her home at the edge of the Oceanus. ( or [héɔːs]; Aeolic Aὔως Aúōs, Doric Ἀώς Āṓs) is a Titaness and the goddess[1] of the dawn, who rose each morning from her home at the edge of the Oceanus.]Wiki entry)

[kostepanych2]

Hello, I'm totally new in ethereum based tokens...
I want to withdraw EOS tokens from bitfinex to MyEtherWallet.
Should I use my ETH address?

[Afrikoin]

Hello, I'm totally new in ethereum based tokens...
I want to withdraw EOS tokens from bitfinex to MyEtherWallet.
Should I use my ETH address?

Your EOS tokens are currently ERC 20 tokens. So they can be sent, stored and held on ethereum wallets. myetherwallet is ok.

myetherwallet will also have the option to see the label and symbol of tokens in your wallet so you can be certain you have EOS tokens.

[Wekkel]

I found this article describing how to show EOS tokens in MEW: https://steemit.com/eos/@onejoe/sent-eos-token-to-myetherwallet-from-a-exchange-or-a-wallet-and-not-showing-up-here-s-the-solution

[elviti]

For me personally, I’ve chosen not to spend my time trying to calculate the perfect time/price of entry. Instead, I’m much more interested in determining whether I want to participate at all (FWIW, I do) by evaluating the project on the basis of the value it’s attempting to bring to the market and the likelihood of that happening successfully. Based on the outcome of that analysis, I set an allocation to EOS and dollar cost average my way there. I figure that if the project is successful, it won’t matter nearly as much (note: I’m not saying “doesn’t matter at all”) whether I’m in at $0.80 or $1.00 or $1.50.

If you believe that EOS will be a disrupting infrastructure with good potential, then you can invest in it freely. As you say, it doesn't matter if you bought at USD 1.50 and it falls to 0.50. What you are waiting is a 20x-30x gain, so a future price of USD 30 will give you 20 times your investing. It doesn't matter that others that bought at USD 0.50 will have a 6,000 % return on investing. It doesn't matter either if the whole project collapses. You "just" invested USD 1.50 (times the amount you felt comfortable to risk).

It's all reduced to a bet, and you should bet only what equates to the pain of pulling a hair or two out of your head, not to the pain of being hung from your head of hair.

[elviti]

https://i.imgur.com/qyEKx0q.png

Cappasity's ARToken chose an EOS platform to "ensure a robust transaction flow,... capable of withstanding up to millions transaction per second."

[kchulani]

I believe that side chains are going to play an even bigger role in 2018, EOS is something to keep a close eye on.


-Ethereal

[ridery99]

Why it keeps dumping