CryptoKingdom Uncensored

[generalizethis]

NO. Micro transactions should be an objective and I don't want to pay 0.00000000000400 for CAN.

Bytecoin and Dogecoin are currently the coins with the biggest supply
They have 130 and 110 billions coins, we have 4 trillion  
And their value is 0.00000029 BTC

µCKM is always an option and there's plenty of units for doing so ingame and easy trade

I believe the coin should be designed for the game first, and for investor's perceptions second--I want a game were I'm a Billionaire, not a mBillionaire--so cut it to 400Billion, but anything under that and I'm invading someone and taking their shit.

EDIT: you could actually cut it to 100Billion and I'd still be a Billionaire, so that is the cutoff for the Bounty.

[iluvbitcoins]

I believe the coin should be designed for the game first, and for investor's perceptions second--I want a game were I'm a Billionaire, not a mBillionaire--so cut it to 400Billion, but anything under that and I'm invading someone and taking their shit.

EDIT: you could actually cut it to 100Billion and I'd still be a Billionaire, so that is the cutoff for the Bounty.

We'd still be in the top coins with the biggest supply, can we meet the demand dogecoin and byteball have?
Even if we do we'd still have issues.
Exchanges won't do the thing we do on CryptoKingdom.me, they won't show prices in millions, they'll show it in units and that's an extreme turn off.
Negative effects of the decrease are just psychological while the positive effects are physical and evident.
I believe it should be in our interest to appeal to investors since they are those who are going to increase the value of our holdings and bring attention to the game we all take part in.

The huge supply could be an issue as he pointed out, because the price on exchanges will be extremely low. That makes it difficult to trade when the spread is between 0.00000001 and 0.00000002 or even 0.00000000 to 0.00000001. In the former case the spread is enormous in percentage terms and in the latter case there is no bid because no one is willing to pay even one satoshi for a single M.

Another coin with a similar issue (Dashcoin; not Dash) but with not even as large a supply went with a 10000-1 reverse split specifically for this reason

This needs to be taken into account.

Wouldn't you like more to be a millionaire in FIAT terms than in a big supply coin?  

[generalizethis]

I believe the coin should be designed for the game first, and for investor's perceptions second--I want a game were I'm a Billionaire, not a mBillionaire--so cut it to 400Billion, but anything under that and I'm invading someone and taking their shit.

EDIT: you could actually cut it to 100Billion and I'd still be a Billionaire, so that is the cutoff for the Bounty.

We'd still be in the top coins with the biggest supply, can we meet the demand dogecoin and byteball have?
Even if we do we'd still have issues.
Exchanges won't do the thing we do on CryptoKingdom.me, they won't show prices in millions, they'll show it in units and that's an extreme turn off.

The huge supply could be an issue as he pointed out, because the price on exchanges will be extremely low. That makes it difficult to trade when the spread is between 0.00000001 and 0.00000002 or even 0.00000000 to 0.00000001. In the former case the spread is enormous in percentage terms and in the latter case there is no bid because no one is willing to pay even one satoshi for a single M.

Another coin with a similar issue (Dashcoin; not Dash) but with not even as large a supply went with a 10000-1 reverse split specifically for this reason

This needs to be taken into account.

Wouldn't you like more to be a millionaire in FIAT terms than in a big supply coin?  

One of the points of the game is you get to roleplay as High-roller--I don't think I get to be a millionaire in fiat unless the game retains those aspects.

[iluvbitcoins]

One of the points of the game is you get to roleplay as High-roller--I don't think I get to be a millionaire in fiat unless the game retains those aspects.

What if CKM was actually Crypto Kingdom Million?
Every CKM would be 1 million Markka ingame

[generalizethis]

One of the points of the game is you get to roleplay as High-roller--I don't think I get to be a millionaire in fiat unless the game retains those aspects.

What if CKM was actually Crypto Kingdom Million?
Every CKM would be 1 million Markka ingame

 

One of the points of the game is you get to roleplay as High-roller--I don't think I get to be a millionaire in fiat unless the game retains those aspects.

What if CKM was actually Crypto Kingdom Million?
Every CKM would be 1 million Markka ingame

That would work. It highlights that part of play and keeps the in-game supply the same.

[iluvbitcoins]

What if CKM was actually Crypto Kingdom Million?
Every CKM would be 1 million Markka ingame

That would work. It highlights that part of play and keeps the in-game supply the same.

Well, that was simple  
We need to brainstorm more xD
Also, thanks for sticking up for the gameplay.

If there is 4 trillion Markka right now, dividing it would yield 4 million CKM.
A reasonable amount and pretty easy to deal with

Do you guys agree on this or think there should be a further adjustment of the supply?

[smooth]

One of the points of the game is you get to roleplay as High-roller--I don't think I get to be a millionaire in fiat unless the game retains those aspects.

What if CKM was actually Crypto Kingdom Million?
Every CKM would be 1 million Markka ingame

Has nice historical precedent with moneritos

[ChrisPop]

One of the points of the game is you get to roleplay as High-roller--I don't think I get to be a millionaire in fiat unless the game retains those aspects.

What if CKM was actually Crypto Kingdom Million?
Every CKM would be 1 million Markka ingame

I think that's a great idea. Trillions of tokens would create too much supply,the spread problem and also we should be able to use those 8 decimals.

*Baron ChrisPop thumbs up!

[CrazyLoaf]

One of the points of the game is you get to roleplay as High-roller--I don't think I get to be a millionaire in fiat unless the game retains those aspects.

What if CKM was actually Crypto Kingdom Million?
Every CKM would be 1 million Markka ingame

I believe in ETH ERC20 you can specify the number of decimals, so if you went with 6 decimal places (so that the full unit equals 1 million), that is 4,000,000.000,000, so 4 million in full coins. Whatever is decided in terms of decimals or total coins, you need it where the "satoshi" unit equals one in-game unit of M. I think this would be easier for investors to understand and for anyone to implement technologically speaking. We don't want to have to worry about "dust."

With 6 decimals, we could probably do from 4 trillion or 1 quadrillion without issue (1,000,000,000.000,000 is 1 quadrillion or 1 billion "full" units). 100 trillion is 100 million. Really it's up to the community to decide on the amount outstanding. Could of course even have a reverse split to a smaller number of coins if wanted.

Any reason to do ERC20 instead of ERC23, as was initially mentioned?

Also, yes, while the ticker could be CKM, we don't have to identify what "M" is in terms of the coin name or branding. I think just "Crypto Kingdom" is fine as the token name. You can see in bold that we get the initials from the name of the token.

[iluvbitcoins]

I believe in ETH ERC20 you can specify the number of decimals, so if you went with 6 decimal places (so that the full unit equals 1 million), that is 4,000,000.000,000, so 4 million in full coins. Whatever is decided in terms of decimals or total coins, you need it where the "satoshi" unit equals one in-game unit of M. I think this would be easier for investors to understand and for anyone to implement technologically speaking. We don't want to have to worry about "dust."

With 6 decimals, we could probably do from 4 trillion or 1 quadrillion without issue (1,000,000,000.000,000 is 1 quadrillion or 1 billion "full" units). 100 trillion is 100 million. Really it's up to the community to decide on the amount outstanding. Could of course even have a reverse split to a smaller number of coins if wanted.

Any reason to do ERC20 instead of ERC23, as was initially mentioned?

Also, yes, while the ticker could be CKM, we don't have to identify what "M" is in terms of the coin name or branding. I think just "Crypto Kingdom" is fine as the token name. You can see in bold that we get the initials from the name of the token.

Yes, ERC23 is not accepted by most exchanges, it might be smarter to move with ERC20 as it's a standard token.

[iluvbitcoins]

https://etherscan.io/token/0x4b1db8f91fae446ba97b65e90e408bdc2486b4ba

This is an ERC20 token

[CrazyLoaf]

I believe in ETH ERC20 you can specify the number of decimals, so if you went with 6 decimal places (so that the full unit equals 1 million), that is 4,000,000.000,000, so 4 million in full coins. Whatever is decided in terms of decimals or total coins, you need it where the "satoshi" unit equals one in-game unit of M. I think this would be easier for investors to understand and for anyone to implement technologically speaking. We don't want to have to worry about "dust."

With 6 decimals, we could probably do from 4 trillion or 1 quadrillion without issue (1,000,000,000.000,000 is 1 quadrillion or 1 billion "full" units). 100 trillion is 100 million. Really it's up to the community to decide on the amount outstanding. Could of course even have a reverse split to a smaller number of coins if wanted.

Any reason to do ERC20 instead of ERC23, as was initially mentioned?

Also, yes, while the ticker could be CKM, we don't have to identify what "M" is in terms of the coin name or branding. I think just "Crypto Kingdom" is fine as the token name. You can see in bold that we get the initials from the name of the token.

Yes, ERC23 is not accepted by most exchanges, it might be smarter to move with ERC20 as it's a standard token.

True, also the ERC23 improvements seem mainly related to smart contracts for the purposes of fund raising, which we don't need in the CKM token itself.

Is everyone game for 4 mil coins with 6 "satoshi" units and a 1:1 relationship between the "satoshi" and the in-game M as it is now? That is what this token is currently.

I am guessing, due to the editable nature of ETH/ERC20, amounts can be changed later, but if there are economic and game related reasons for a larger coin supply, now is the time to do it when it is easiest.

[generalizethis]

Three characters' possessions have now been sweeped to a holding account:

sando and krissu for massive abuse of the starting CAN, by creating dozens of throwaway accounts to farm CAN
asmodian for exploiting a bug in the jewel editor and selling the resulting new gold, etc

I'm not sure WHY you are posting this over and over or why you need a noob account?

[generalizethis]

What if CKM was actually Crypto Kingdom Million?
Every CKM would be 1 million Markka ingame

That would work. It highlights that part of play and keeps the in-game supply the same.

Well, that was simple  
We need to brainstorm more xD
Also, thanks for sticking up for the gameplay.

If there is 4 trillion Markka right now, dividing it would yield 4 million CKM.
A reasonable amount and pretty easy to deal with

Do you guys agree on this or think there should be a further adjustment of the supply?

[CrazyLoaf]

https://etherscan.io/token/0x4b1db8f91fae446ba97b65e90e408bdc2486b4ba

This is an ERC20 token

Any way to change the name to straight Crypto Kingdom? How hard is it to change other elements (like supply) once the token is out in the open?

So I guess the next stage to discuss is where funds for game development will be coming from.

HMC (and possibly others, but I do not see an active IRC) is of the opinion that any of Zech's assets should solely be used to pay off debtholders of E1 and B1 and that they should be held on the chance that Zech will pay these debts. As I've stated before, from Zech's perspective, it doesn't make any sense to pay anything as he has already lost tens of thousands of XMR and thousands of BTC. With the rise in BTC pricing especially, claims are in the tens of millions in fiat pricing!

Additionally, just focusing on E1 and B1 ignores possible losses in M3. For example, I believe binaryfate (correct if wrong) is out like almost 100 BTC worth of XMR that he deposited but was not credited for.

This also stifles the potential for game development (through funding) and completely ignores those who deposited a lot of XMR, but did not partake in the depo items. For example, under this plan, Karl Hungus gets nothing, even though he is out millions. There are many others who invested 1k-10k XMR or more and have not come close to ROI who are ignored.

A far better system is to use Zech's items for development and crowdfund purposes. As stated before, Zech-related accounts are roughly 50% of the game. Town wanted 10% of M, so that comes from there. You then have 40% and of that, you could perhaps crowdfund +-20% and hold back +-20% for depo-related repayments. Honestly, even as one who is owed a fairly decent amount of money from the depo-related items, I'd far rather just have the full 40% crowdfunded and used for game development and promotion as that gives everyone the best chance at a sustainable game ecosystem.

There is also the option of a mass dilution in M for everyone, and then that portion is used for game development. For example, we are at 4mil coins now, we move up to 10mil and that gives the game 6mil to work with. This would impact everyone equally based on their ownership level and I would be open to this.

Honestly, I am open to anything that allows for a sensible and economic way of developing the game. From that 60k+ XMR and 1000+ BTC Zech spent, we could of had an awesome game at this stage We are going on a year with more-or-less nonexistent game development. When is this going to change?

Whatever is decided when it comes to M/CKM supply, I also say that we go ahead and create the CKO token for game platform ownership/voting purposes. There is a "board" but aside from HMC and Mooo, I do not see SirJacket on the game anymore at all. HMC retains decent M ownership (roughly 100bil), as does Mooo (~25 bil), but SirJacket barely has 1bil M. Voting should be based on the level of CKO ownership, or people should at least be able to assign proxies (which can be done in these tokens) to vote for them. Of course, if we give Town 60% of the game, voting may be a moot point


 

[saddambitcoin]

https://etherscan.io/token/0x4b1db8f91fae446ba97b65e90e408bdc2486b4ba

This is an ERC20 token

Additionally, just focusing on E1 and B1 ignores possible losses in M3. For example, I believe binaryfate (correct if wrong) is out like almost 100 BTC worth of XMR that he deposited but was not credited for.

There are no M3 losses. All deposited M3 was and is fully accounted for (now held in Gringotts). binaryFate deposited XMR and sold the M3 to arbitrage B1 - he is owed BTC.

[smooth]

Additionally, just focusing on E1 and B1 ignores possible losses in M3. For example, I believe binaryfate (correct if wrong) is out like almost 100 BTC worth of XMR that he deposited but was not credited for.

I'm not aware of this, but if Risto created unbacked M3 tokens then he owes that too.

I do not support redirecting Risto's assets 'for the good of the game/development' (what legitimate basis is there for that?) when there are players who got screwed by him personally having created and sold unbacked tokens who have a more clear and obvious claim against those assets.

Also, as I said before about abandoned accounts, if his assets remain frozen pending settlement of the debts (or in theory forever) that will drive up the value of the M that does float. Both the game/town and other players will benefit.

[iluvbitcoins]

Additionally, just focusing on E1 and B1 ignores possible losses in M3. For example, I believe binaryfate (correct if wrong) is out like almost 100 BTC worth of XMR that he deposited but was not credited for.

I'm not aware of this, but if Risto created unbacked M3 tokens then he owes that too.

I do not support redirecting Risto's assets 'for the good of the game/development' (what legitimate basis is there for that?) when there are players who got screwed by him personally having created and sold unbacked tokens who have a more clear and obvious claim against those assets.

Also, as I said before about abandoned accounts, if his assets remain frozen pending settlement of the debts (or in theory forever) that will drive up the value of the M that does float. Both the game/town and other players will benefit.

They will drive up the value equivalently to everyone who owns M, not to those with debts to be repaid.
His assets should be put on auction at a time in the future to settle his debts if it were possible.

[CrazyLoaf]

There are no M3 losses. All deposited M3 was and is fully accounted for (now held in Gringotts). binaryFate deposited XMR and sold the M3 to arbitrage B1 - he is owed BTC.

Okay, thanks for the clarification on the binaryfate XMR item. I never thought it was an issue with your depo in any event

I do not support redirecting Risto's assets 'for the good of the game/development' (what legitimate basis is there for that?) when there are players who got screwed by him personally having created and sold unbacked tokens who have a more clear and obvious claim against those assets.

Also, as I said before about abandoned accounts, if his assets remain frozen pending settlement of the debts (or in theory forever) that will drive up the value of the M that does float. Both the game/town and other players will benefit.

They will drive up to value equivalently to everyone who owns M, not to those with debts to be repaid.
His assets should be put on auction at a time in the future to settle his debts if it were possible.

Okay, I can see the perspective of the float argument in regards to M/CKM.

But if we don't accept partial takeover of some assets and/or dilution for everyone, I do not understand how the game will progress as the game has nothing to use to fund development and growth. For example, Town wants 10% of M/CKM. Where does that come from in your scenario? With 4 tril M/CKM, that is 400 bil. They own 43 bil atm. Where does the 357 bil come from?

Yes, an auction at a later date could also be a possibility with Zech's player assets if depo-related items are not repaid. But how are we getting from where we are now to a point in the future where there is actually some demand for the game assets?

Let's look at in from the perspective of a new player/investor. The project has a bad history. There isn't currently even a game. Why do I want to play/invest?

We have one absentee developer who is currently unpaid and does not have motivation to work on CK. Even when he was paid, we have seen the game go on for a year without progress on tech-side or game-side development. If we want people to work on the game or tech, what is their motivation? Just because they want to? They'd be far better off just launching their own project without all the depo-related debts and largely abandoned community.

If game/tech talent is found, how are they compensated? Is town willing to just whittle away it's 1% share of the game?

[smooth]

One possibility to raise funds for development is to do a secondary offering on ownership tokens once they are distributed. Obviously existing owners will need to approve (and will be diluted unless they buy more tokens).

Another possibility is in-game taxes. Though of course, blood-from-a-stone applies there and also high in-game taxes will probably depress (if that is possible) and retard the growth the in-game economy.

I don't know what other resources already exist within the game/town/admin structure.

Let's look at in from the perspective of a new player/investor. The project has a bad history. There isn't currently even a game. Why do I want to play/invest?

That is quite a good perspective. There better be a credible plan to increase the value of the game. Something that will convince investors to put in new money is a good test that the plan is credible and not just a circle jerk.

Alternately, dilute M and run an ICO with the new supply. The long history of the game and existing player base can be considered as adding value through bootstrapping, and the ICO proceeds used to further develop the game engine, hire writers for storyline, etc. and launch marketing.