CryptoKingdom Uncensored

[Gaben.]

I have created a ryver channel with an open Registration link:

CryptoKingdom.ryver.com

The open registration is here:

https://cryptokingdom.ryver.com/application/signup/members/njw9Z-TTBMjyruB

I think the style of communication ryver provides could stand to benefit CK immensely as you can more easily run automated tasks and stuff. Anyone joining should be a member than can make new chat rooms and other things.

Of course slack can pretty much do the same thing, but I don't currently see a publicly accessible joining link. This ryver is open to anyone in control of an email address that can receive and follow a verification link.

Also, I've been in btctalk since Jan 1 2014, in crypto a little bit before then, been holding monero since a few minutes from the genesis block, and followed CK since its launch and joined around a year after it launched. Point being - this ryver isn't going anywhere and I can always be reached within a reasonable amount of time.

I'm not sure how the depository holders could move to a new version without some sort of agreement in place yet.

I appreciate IRC for where it's gotten us so far, but I think more advanced chat facilities could move us to a next step.

I think we're really gonna have to hammer out some well defined details of at least a 'basic economic engine' in order to have a developer implement the details. Specifically, how to make it a balanced basic economic engine .. which would probably require some basic math and numbers.

[CrazyLoaf]

I have created a ryver channel with an open Registration link:

CryptoKingdom.ryver.com

The open registration is here:

https://cryptokingdom.ryver.com/application/signup/members/njw9Z-TTBMjyruB

I think the style of communication ryver provides could stand to benefit CK immensely as you can more easily run automated tasks and stuff. Anyone joining should be a member than can make new chat rooms and other things.

Of course slack can pretty much do the same thing, but I don't currently see a publicly accessible joining link. This ryver is open to anyone in control of an email address that can receive and follow a verification link.

Also, I've been in btctalk since Jan 1 2014, in crypto a little bit before then, been holding monero since a few minutes from the genesis block, and followed CK since its launch and joined around a year after it launched. Point being - this ryver isn't going anywhere and I can always be reached within a reasonable amount of time.

I'm not sure how the depository holders could move to a new version without some sort of agreement in place yet.

I appreciate IRC for where it's gotten us so far, but I think more advanced chat facilities could move us to a next step.

I think we're really gonna have to hammer out some well defined details of at least a 'basic economic engine' in order to have a developer implement the details. Specifically, how to make it a balanced basic economic engine .. which would probably require some basic math and numbers.

Thank you for this! I've joined. Also recommend others join as well and we can see if HMC will change the OP of this thread to have a link.

The first step that needs to happen is we need PJ to provide a publicly accessible CK codebase repository and help with a clean cloning of the game and item database at a specified point in time so that no items or transactions are lost.

This time will be announced in advance and then once it happens, the cryptokingdom.me site should be paused for new transactions while the clone happens. Afterwards, PJ or someone else is welcome to continue on the cryptokingdom.me site.

We need a secondary and public copy first. Here's why: I logged into the CK slack. Last public message was from Nov. 8 asking if PJ could fix a site/bug issue. Before this, last public message from PJ was Oct. 18. PJ is unfortunately a bottleneck and I am willing to pay to get him to put the game and database in a place where it can be worked on by others.

I posted a public message for PJ on Dec. 30 and preliminarily he seems interested in doing what needs to be done, so that is good to hear.

Agree on the "basic economic engine" aspect. To a degree, I think a review and a reimplementation of what he had somewhat before Risto paused the game is a good place to start. After that, honestly just looking at Risto's earlier notes and the like could be a good place for implementation. It's clear, at the start at least, that Risto had more planned than what was implemented.

[CrazyLoaf]

Everyone interested in an easy to join alternative to IRC to discuss Crypto Kingdom, please use Gaben's Ryver link:

https://cryptokingdom.ryver.com/application/signup/members/njw9Z-TTBMjyruB

[iluvbitcoins]

The first step that needs to happen is we need PJ to provide a publicly accessible CK codebase repository and help with a clean cloning of the game and item database at a specified point in time so that no items or transactions are lost.

Don't we already have control over the website?
Or we do not o.o

I posted a public message for PJ on Dec. 30 and preliminarily he seems interested in doing what needs to be done, so that is good to hear.

Yeah.

Once upon a time he told me he's going to get something working tonight, it's been 3 months since he said that lol

Say we use 0 CKT or "Crypto Kingdom Time", or we can use 0 CKE for "Crypto Kingdom Era". We will keep all prior items and they will be based on BCKT/BCKE.

I love this proposal, we won't have to restart time once we reach a certain period and it adds a certain mystical aspect to the game, since it is it's own world.

Agree on the private slack: public is better. But don't worry, there has been very little activity on there and it's main purpose has been to try to get in touch with PJ as far as I can tell. I myself used it today to offer PJ payment to put the into place a database and game logic cloning for CK:R.

PJ and Speed  

About the only item of concern would be M3/XMR, but if everyone chooses to go with CK:R, the depo can just move there. Otherwise, iluvbitcoins/saddam is welcome to open a XMR (or any other cryptocurrency) depo on CK:R.

I think the talk about a fork is unecessary.
We're all going to agree to move forward, why would we call it a fork?

There is the CK IRC channel at ##cryptokingdom which is more active

I agree, the CK IRC channel was quite active, and you could always get some answers there if you had them.

Everyone interested in an easy to join alternative to IRC to discuss Crypto Kingdom, please use Gaben's Ryver link:

https://cryptokingdom.ryver.com/application/signup/members/njw9Z-TTBMjyruB

We already have an IRC channel.

[g4q34g4qg47ww]

PJ and Speed  

About the only item of concern would be M3/XMR, but if everyone chooses to go with CK:R, the depo can just move there. Otherwise, iluvbitcoins/saddam is welcome to open a XMR (or any other cryptocurrency) depo on CK:R.

I think the talk about a fork is unecessary.
We're all going to agree to move forward, why would we call it a fork?

There is the CK IRC channel at ##cryptokingdom which is more active

I agree, the CK IRC channel was quite active, and you could always get some answers there if you had them.

Everyone interested in an easy to join alternative to IRC to discuss Crypto Kingdom, please use Gaben's Ryver link:

https://cryptokingdom.ryver.com/application/signup/members/njw9Z-TTBMjyruB

We already have an IRC channel.

II don't think fork is necessary. However purchasing property is broken, has been for a long time... hard to defend. I dont see how any developments efforts would do anything but benefit from PJ and Speed being involved. However we have motivated people, motivated devs, people who are ready to go. Honestly... purchasing property is broken and has been shamefully long. The village overview is black. Development is so slow as to be negligible. Apparently code structure is of sound quality at its core so insult intended on that.. If PJ + Speed would be open continuing at their regular place while hard work gets cranked out by others, i dont see the need for two sites, two forks. I'm 100% speculating, but honestly, some of the previous devs might be relieved to be released from responsibilities of this project. And considering you cant even buy property we have a defunct product which is essentially unusable. BLack map... These bugs are identified already in the source, and dev is hungry to get to work. Whether its under CK or fork of CK, i dont see waiting around for a non-black map and purchasing of property to lose the syntax error   .... which has gone unnoticed for really way too long .... to be a serious endeavor worthy of the time and talents of the people floating around here.

[iluvbitcoins]

II don't think fork is necessary. However purchasing property is broken, has been for a long time... hard to defend. I dont see how any developments efforts would do anything but benefit from PJ and Speed being involved. However we have motivated people, motivated devs, people who are ready to go. Honestly... purchasing property is broken and has been shamefully long. The village overview is black. Development is so slow as to be negligible. Apparently code structure is of sound quality at its core so insult intended on that.. If PJ + Speed would be open continuing at their regular place while hard work gets cranked out by others, i dont see the need for two sites, two forks. I'm 100% speculating, but honestly, some of the previous devs might be relieved to be released from responsibilities of this project. And considering you cant even buy property we have a defunct product which is essentially unusable. BLack map... These bugs are identified already in the source, and dev is hungry to get to work. Whether its under CK or fork of CK, i dont see waiting around for a non-black map and purchasing of property to lose the syntax error   .... which has gone unnoticed for really way too long .... to be a serious endeavor worthy of the time and talents of the people floating around here.

I don't see the purpose of making a new website except for if someone wants to take control in this "takeover".

Everything we can do with the fork, we can do with this website.

I might be mistaken, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

Regarding PJ, he's a dead end.
I trust Speed has good intentions and capabilites but it's going on too slowly..
We can all bullshit here, but instead we could try to find a dev we all need.

[CrazyLoaf]

II don't think fork is necessary. However purchasing property is broken, has been for a long time... hard to defend. I dont see how any developments efforts would do anything but benefit from PJ and Speed being involved. However we have motivated people, motivated devs, people who are ready to go. Honestly... purchasing property is broken and has been shamefully long. The village overview is black. Development is so slow as to be negligible. Apparently code structure is of sound quality at its core so insult intended on that.. If PJ + Speed would be open continuing at their regular place while hard work gets cranked out by others, i dont see the need for two sites, two forks. I'm 100% speculating, but honestly, some of the previous devs might be relieved to be released from responsibilities of this project. And considering you cant even buy property we have a defunct product which is essentially unusable. BLack map... These bugs are identified already in the source, and dev is hungry to get to work. Whether its under CK or fork of CK, i dont see waiting around for a non-black map and purchasing of property to lose the syntax error   .... which has gone unnoticed for really way too long .... to be a serious endeavor worthy of the time and talents of the people floating around here.

I don't see the purpose of making a new website except for if someone wants to take control in this "takeover".

Everything we can do with the fork, we can do with this website.

I might be mistaken, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

Regarding PJ, he's a dead end.
I trust Speed has good intentions and capabilites but it's going on too slowly..
We can all bullshit here, but instead we could try to find a dev we all need.

Just to be clear, the new website suggestion was in case people really did want to continue with the status quo (waiting on PJ and Speed or some other alternative), which does not seem to be the case. I guess in hindsight, I shouldn't have used the word "fork"

PJ has been responsive so far in terms of passing information/data on, so we should be able to keep using the cryptokingdom.me domain.

Also, PJ said he had some communication with Speed a long while ago, but then nothing. Speed has not been seen in the CK Slack or IRC for a while as well.

Speed is welcome to be part of this initiative later, but I agree with the overall plan outlined so far and we have better developer talent in place now. For example, you should see some of the developer comments on the CK Ryver that discuss a possible long-term approach to more decentralization/security.

The developer has already been reviewing the CK code and has been added to the CK Slack to talk to PJ. Things are looking good!

[boomboom]

II don't think fork is necessary. However purchasing property is broken, has been for a long time... hard to defend. I dont see how any developments efforts would do anything but benefit from PJ and Speed being involved. However we have motivated people, motivated devs, people who are ready to go. Honestly... purchasing property is broken and has been shamefully long. The village overview is black. Development is so slow as to be negligible. Apparently code structure is of sound quality at its core so insult intended on that.. If PJ + Speed would be open continuing at their regular place while hard work gets cranked out by others, i dont see the need for two sites, two forks. I'm 100% speculating, but honestly, some of the previous devs might be relieved to be released from responsibilities of this project. And considering you cant even buy property we have a defunct product which is essentially unusable. BLack map... These bugs are identified already in the source, and dev is hungry to get to work. Whether its under CK or fork of CK, i dont see waiting around for a non-black map and purchasing of property to lose the syntax error   .... which has gone unnoticed for really way too long .... to be a serious endeavor worthy of the time and talents of the people floating around here.

I don't see the purpose of making a new website except for if someone wants to take control in this "takeover".

Everything we can do with the fork, we can do with this website.

I might be mistaken, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

Regarding PJ, he's a dead end.
I trust Speed has good intentions and capabilites but it's going on too slowly..
We can all bullshit here, but instead we could try to find a dev we all need.

Just to be clear, the new website suggestion was in case people really did want to continue with the status quo (waiting on PJ and Speed or some other alternative), which does not seem to be the case. I guess in hindsight, I shouldn't have used the word "fork"

PJ has been responsive so far in terms of passing information/data on, so we should be able to keep using the cryptokingdom.me domain.

Also, PJ said he had some communication with Speed a long while ago, but then nothing. Speed has not been seen in the CK Slack or IRC for a while as well.

Speed is welcome to be part of this initiative later, but I agree with the overall plan outlined so far and we have better developer talent in place now. For example, you should see some of the developer comments on the CK Ryver that discuss a possible long-term approach to more decentralization/security.

The developer has already been reviewing the CK code and has been added to the CK Slack to talk to PJ. Things are looking good!

The situation looks more promising for CK now than it has for +2 years, I think (nearly) everyone is on the same page now, if there's going to be baton changes to new people it looks like everyone on both sides is willing to see the changes happen, so fork option is probably not needed, but available still if needed. Nobody is being excluded, numbers involved in this die-hard community are small enough to let self-selection decide who does what.

I'm bullish on 'M'

[iluvbitcoins]

II don't think fork is necessary. However purchasing property is broken, has been for a long time... hard to defend. I dont see how any developments efforts would do anything but benefit from PJ and Speed being involved. However we have motivated people, motivated devs, people who are ready to go. Honestly... purchasing property is broken and has been shamefully long. The village overview is black. Development is so slow as to be negligible. Apparently code structure is of sound quality at its core so insult intended on that.. If PJ + Speed would be open continuing at their regular place while hard work gets cranked out by others, i dont see the need for two sites, two forks. I'm 100% speculating, but honestly, some of the previous devs might be relieved to be released from responsibilities of this project. And considering you cant even buy property we have a defunct product which is essentially unusable. BLack map... These bugs are identified already in the source, and dev is hungry to get to work. Whether its under CK or fork of CK, i dont see waiting around for a non-black map and purchasing of property to lose the syntax error   .... which has gone unnoticed for really way too long .... to be a serious endeavor worthy of the time and talents of the people floating around here.

I don't see the purpose of making a new website except for if someone wants to take control in this "takeover".

Everything we can do with the fork, we can do with this website.

I might be mistaken, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

Regarding PJ, he's a dead end.
I trust Speed has good intentions and capabilites but it's going on too slowly..
We can all bullshit here, but instead we could try to find a dev we all need.

Just to be clear, the new website suggestion was in case people really did want to continue with the status quo (waiting on PJ and Speed or some other alternative), which does not seem to be the case. I guess in hindsight, I shouldn't have used the word "fork"

PJ has been responsive so far in terms of passing information/data on, so we should be able to keep using the cryptokingdom.me domain.

Also, PJ said he had some communication with Speed a long while ago, but then nothing. Speed has not been seen in the CK Slack or IRC for a while as well.

Speed is welcome to be part of this initiative later, but I agree with the overall plan outlined so far and we have better developer talent in place now. For example, you should see some of the developer comments on the CK Ryver that discuss a possible long-term approach to more decentralization/security.

The developer has already been reviewing the CK code and has been added to the CK Slack to talk to PJ. Things are looking good!

The general stance is obviously just do it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXsQAXx_ao0

Don't think there will be much disagreement if we're getting stuff done.

...
I'm bullish on 'M'

Me too 

[player99]

Finally some good news then

[CrazyLoaf]

So obviously any changes/developments/etc. won't happen overnight, but I'd like to start soliciting the community to see thoughts/comments in two main areas:

(1) bugfixes
(2) gameplay

Of course, general CK talk is always welcome!

If relevant, please link any old CK thread posts or CK wiki pages or anything else that provides additional insight. Thanks!

Let me touch on two items I discussed earlier:

Game Timing - BCKT/CKT

So I'm fairly confident that we reset the game time to 0 CKT. "CKT" still isn't the "final" naming methodology, but I want to try and avoid direct comparisons with any "real world" time conventions like BC/BCE. All current items will be sufficiently aged to an appropriate "BCKT" time.

iluvbitcoins said this adds to the "mythical" element of the game and I agree. Even if we kept at 1 real world week = 1 year in-game CKT, in just a year we'd be at only 52 CKT. And, since there aren't any specific expectations of what technology/development a world has at 52 CKT with an unknown amount of prehistory, it won't be a surprise if we have flying cars in 520 CKT

Game Currency - Unlocking CKG?

As I said earlier, I agree with HMC that "Crypto Kingdom Gold" is a far better name for an in-game currency than the "Markkas" we have now. However, there is always that sticking issue of roughly 1,000,000 CKG floating around in bars and items. Yes, we could rename CKG to something else and then rename M to CKG, but what can be better than gold?

What about this. Current CKG becomes CKGB (Crypto Kingdom Gold Bars) that can be smelted down to 1,000,000 CKG per 1 CKGB. During a later airdrop of blockchain-based CKG (formerly M), 5 trillion blockchain CKG are airdropped, with roughly 1 trillion of that going to CKGB holders.
 
If owners want to spend the "intrinsic" CKG in each CKGB directly, they have to smelt the item/bar/palace roof down. Items like HM02B100 and HM02B1000 will still be tradeable in-game for CKG/M, and can of course trade at a premium to their "intrinsic" CKG value.

[boomboom]

Game Timing - BCKT/CKT
So I'm fairly confident that we reset the game time to 0 CKT. "CKT" still isn't the "final" naming methodology, but I want to try and avoid direct comparisons with any "real world" time conventions like BC/BCE. All current items will be sufficiently aged to an appropriate "BCKT" time.

iluvbitcoins said this adds to the "mythical" element of the game and I agree. Even if we kept at 1 real world week = 1 year in-game CKT, in just a year we'd be at only 52 CKT. And, since there aren't any specific expectations of what technology/development a world has at 52 CKT with an unknown amount of prehistory, it won't be a surprise if we have flying cars in 520 CKT

Resetting time is a good idea.

Game Currency - Unlocking CKG?

As I said earlier, I agree with HMC that "Crypto Kingdom Gold" is a far better name for an in-game currency than the "Markkas" we have now. However, there is always that sticking issue of roughly 1,000,000 CKG floating around in bars and items. Yes, we could rename CKG to something else and then rename M to CKG, but what can be better than gold?

What about this. Current CKG becomes CKGB (Crypto Kingdom Gold Bars) that can be smelted down to 1,000,000 CKG per 1 CKGB. During a later airdrop of blockchain-based CKG (formerly M), 5 trillion blockchain CKG are airdropped, with roughly 1 trillion of that going to CKGB holders.
 
If owners want to spend the "intrinsic" CKG in each CKGB directly, they have to smelt the item/bar/palace roof down. Items like HM02B100 and HM02B1000 will still be tradeable in-game for CKG/M, and can of course trade at a premium to their "intrinsic" CKG value.

Name change of game currency M to "Crypto Kingdom Gold" is a good move too, but I'd prefer not to include the original CKG (i.e. CKGB) in any new airdrop of game currency, mainly because I don't think we'll get unanimous agreement on the details (opinions will depend on what's in people's respective bags) so I think we'll get bogged down in arguments, but continuing with the status quo is a neutral position, a bit like the ongoing debate in XMR community over whether to change the emission schedule back in 2014/15. Once it became obvious strong opinions were present on both sides only viable option was status quo (i.e. do nothing, no change).

Old CKG holders can get other benefits, maybe in health or wisdom, or maybe a dividend of some kind. Could change the name to Platinum to avoid confusion, CKP.

[bv68bot]

What about this. Current CKG becomes CKGB (Crypto Kingdom Gold Bars) that can be smelted down to 1,000,000 CKG per 1 CKGB. During a later airdrop of blockchain-based CKG (formerly M), 5 trillion blockchain CKG are airdropped, with roughly 1 trillion of that going to CKGB holders.

Better to leave game money supply as is IMO, then whales who withdrew during Risto's artificial peg have to deposit XMR to get skin back in the game, if they want to be a major player that is

If you airdrop on CKG it reduces the incentive for those who withdrew to 'commit' to the game, and some will have enough CKG to reload on game currency without depositing anything at all. If that is what the community wants then so be it, but I'd prefer no dilution of M in favor of those who cashed out, I don't like the idea of gifting game currency to people who might just withdraw it instantly anyway. Don't forget, some players withdrew over 500K USD in XMR and BTC at current prices, so it's not like they can't afford to deposit some hard crypto now to get game money, assuming they want to be major players again. 'M' is pretty cheap now too!

[acdc]

Really cool to see some activity around CK again

I agree, don't dilute M anymore with an airdrop on gold holders, there's a few land whales around with cash balances looking too small to maintain them once taxation resumes, and that'll mean some bargains 

[boomboom]

Better to leave game money supply as is IMO, then whales who withdrew during Risto's artificial peg have to deposit XMR to get skin back in the game, if they want to be a major player that is

If you airdrop on CKG it reduces the incentive for those who withdrew to 'commit' to the game, and some will have enough CKG to reload on game currency without depositing anything at all. If that is what the community wants then so be it, but I'd prefer no dilution of M in favor of those who cashed out, I don't like the idea of gifting game currency to people who might just withdraw it instantly anyway. Don't forget, some players withdrew over 500K USD in XMR and BTC at current prices, so it's not like they can't afford to deposit some hard crypto now to get game money, assuming they want to be major players again. 'M' is pretty cheap now too!

I think we ALL want everyone to come back and play, that'll make CK great again, and increase value for those who stayed. The problem with airdropping on gold is getting everyone to agree on the details, and imo, less about what happened in the past.

[CrazyLoaf]

Old CKG holders can get other benefits, maybe in health or wisdom, or maybe a dividend of some kind. Could change the name to Platinum to avoid confusion, CKP.

CKP could work as a name, but platinum really isn't much of an adornment for buildings, artwork, etc. Minor thing overall. May just have to be one of those "weird" things that results from prior choices if CKG and CKS becomes CKGB (CK Gold Bar) and CKSB (CK Silver Bar), but you aren't able to take the "gold" currency coins and directly make them.

One reason I thought of having current CKG be airdropped the currency CKG is that would create an arbitrage market on collectibles, and people may destroy, say, their gold coins, cutlery, and the like to unlock the CKG within them, making the remaining items rarer overall as in the "relaunch" we'll try to keep the active item lists cleaner and with more fine-tuned purposes. Most of these older items may not be addressed in terms of being provided uses/purposes unless someone from the community creates them.

I agree, don't dilute M anymore with an airdrop on gold holders, there's a few land whales around with cash balances looking too small to maintain them once taxation resumes, and that'll mean some bargains

This is another great point. We have a lot of nobles running around not having paid taxes for decades. Even worse, they are naked and haven't eaten for almost as long Really, the production and consumption game needs to be automated and, like in the early game when it was manually checked, there should be requirements for what needs to be owned and consumer given a specific player level.

If anyone has suggestions in this area, I'm all ears. I'm even thinking that in the same way people were automatically promoted to a certain number of levels, it also needs to be possible to, over time, fall in levels if level requirements are not consistently met. Otherwise you have a bunch of naked nobles without carriages and no house who haven't eaten even a single CAN in almost 100 years

Money Supply & Tokenization

Again, early stage thoughts here, but want to get a feel from the community. We have 4 trillion M units. On any token asset, I think for ease of comparison to pretty much any other crypto asset, 8 decimal units is the way to go. That means 1 "full" M blockchain unit will equal 100,000,000 in-game M units.

Here's a potential problem with that: we will only have 40k "full" blockchain units. (40000.00000000 OR 4,000,0.00,000,000). In the top 100 on CoinMarketCap, the smallest amount is GBYTE with 645k circulating supply, but 1 million total supply. Also, in my opinion, we need to keep in mind a scenario where the smallest "satoshi" level of currency (the decimals) is 1:1 to in-game currency, which is taken care of in this scenario.

Keeping all ownership positions in M the same, do we want to do a final multiplication to something higher than 40k units (or 4 trillion)?

Here's a recent visual on the world's markets:

http://www.visualcapitalist.com/worlds-money-markets-one-visualization-2017/

Narrow money is around $40 trillion and broad money is around $100 trillion. 100 trillion M would get us to 1 million blockchain M.

Looking globally and rounding some:

Gold: 10
Stock: 75
Narrow + Broad Money: 100
Debt: 215
Real Estate: 220

Gets us to 620 trillion M, or 6.2 million blockchain M. And we haven't included derivatives or anything like that.

Honestly, we could even go for something higher that gets us to quadrillions of in-game like 10 million (1 quadrillion) or 100 million (10 quadrillion) blockchain units. That would get someone like Karl Hungus to a 100 trillion position, and since this whole Bitcoin business is supposed to start creating the world's first trillionaires, maybe CK needs to have this opportunity open as well    

[CrazyLoaf]

Individual Characters to Houses

So fairly obvious that it doesn't make too much sense to have a bunch of 300 year olds running around the kingdom (that have also been naked, starving, and skirting their taxes for almost as long).

Say we take that "age" and have that as a "founding date" for "houses." So based on some recent posters (don't remember your in-game names), you'd have "House BoomBoom" and "House ACDC." Gives us a "Game of Thrones" vibe too

Idea here is that we don't want people dying, losing their accounts, etc. as in the past. Maybe specific player characters can be a later aspect (maybe "Heralds" that can run around in an actual 2D/3D game world), but for now simpler is better.

We could also have a way for players to electively choose to be a "Player House" or an "Investment House." The latter would function much like the FOCs of the past, but items such as health and the like would be removed. 

A bunch of gameplay happened with the consumption game that was supposed to be seen in clans, but the payoff never came to fruition as clans was sort of a bust. I mean what does Wisdom, Health, Happiness even do? May be able to address that with the next aspect...

Pooled NPCs

Now I know there has been some winnowing down on individual NPC lists, which is fine as, again, too many items with not much purpose.

But one thing that did make sense was the different large pools of NPCs (I believe they were called NPCC1, NPCC2, etc.) that provided a direct game-driven production and consumption demand.

Since we move from an individual player that can die to a House, naturally those estates may also have a number of NPCs to clothe and take care of. What if the way the pooled NPC game was handled was via an airdrop to all players based on their player level? Higher player levels should have larger estates, hence more NPCs to take care of (and more demanding NPCs as well).

We'd then look at mass consumption on a real world weekly basis. So you quaff down 200 CAN, you would be taking care of the needs of your House and all of its associated NPCs.

We'd need to announce when this gameplay starts ahead of time, but this could be a great way to see who are the characters at high levels who no longer want to play the game in a "Player House" fashion. They could become an "Investment House." Otherwise, they get airdropped a bunch of NPCs that they leave naked, hungry, and without CAN and they'd start feeling financial costs (as well as a possible drop in player level).

[boomboom]

Money Supply & Tokenization

Again, early stage thoughts here, but want to get a feel from the community. We have 4 trillion M units. On any token asset, I think for ease of comparison to pretty much any other crypto asset, 8 decimal units is the way to go. That means 1 "full" M blockchain unit will equal 100,000,000 in-game M units.

Here's a potential problem with that: we will only have 40k "full" blockchain units. (40000.00000000 OR 4,000,0.00,000,000). In the top 100 on CoinMarketCap, the smallest amount is GBYTE with 645k circulating supply, but 1 million total supply. Also, in my opinion, we need to keep in mind a scenario where the smallest "satoshi" level of currency (the decimals) is 1:1 to in-game currency, which is taken care of in this scenario.

Keeping all ownership positions in M the same, do we want to do a final multiplication to something higher than 40k units (or 4 trillion)?

Here's a recent visual on the world's markets:

http://www.visualcapitalist.com/worlds-money-markets-one-visualization-2017/

Narrow money is around $40 trillion and broad money is around $100 trillion. 100 trillion M would get us to 1 million blockchain M.

Looking globally and rounding some:

Gold: 10
Stock: 75
Narrow + Broad Money: 100
Debt: 215
Real Estate: 220

Gets us to 620 trillion M, or 6.2 million blockchain M. And we haven't included derivatives or anything like that.

Honestly, we could even go for something higher that gets us to quadrillions of in-game like 10 million (1 quadrillion) or 100 million (10 quadrillion) blockchain units. That would get someone like Karl Hungus to a 100 trillion position, and since this whole Bitcoin business is supposed to start creating the world's first trillionaires, maybe CK needs to have this opportunity open as well    

Looks good to me, if we're going to have 8 dec places on external exchanges, which makes sense, then having '1 "full" M blockchain unit will equal 100,000,000 in-game M units' makes sense too.

I like round numbers, so maybe 10 mil blockchain M with 8 dec places, so 1,000,000,000,000,000 in-game M , i.e. 1 quadrillion game M

[iluvbitcoins]

Money Supply & Tokenization

Again, early stage thoughts here, but want to get a feel from the community. We have 4 trillion M units. On any token asset, I think for ease of comparison to pretty much any other crypto asset, 8 decimal units is the way to go. That means 1 "full" M blockchain unit will equal 100,000,000 in-game M units.

Here's a potential problem with that: we will only have 40k "full" blockchain units. (40000.00000000 OR 4,000,0.00,000,000). In the top 100 on CoinMarketCap, the smallest amount is GBYTE with 645k circulating supply, but 1 million total supply. Also, in my opinion, we need to keep in mind a scenario where the smallest "satoshi" level of currency (the decimals) is 1:1 to in-game currency, which is taken care of in this scenario.

Keeping all ownership positions in M the same, do we want to do a final multiplication to something higher than 40k units (or 4 trillion)?

Here's a recent visual on the world's markets:

http://www.visualcapitalist.com/worlds-money-markets-one-visualization-2017/

Narrow money is around $40 trillion and broad money is around $100 trillion. 100 trillion M would get us to 1 million blockchain M.

Looking globally and rounding some:

Gold: 10
Stock: 75
Narrow + Broad Money: 100
Debt: 215
Real Estate: 220

Gets us to 620 trillion M, or 6.2 million blockchain M. And we haven't included derivatives or anything like that.

Honestly, we could even go for something higher that gets us to quadrillions of in-game like 10 million (1 quadrillion) or 100 million (10 quadrillion) blockchain units. That would get someone like Karl Hungus to a 100 trillion position, and since this whole Bitcoin business is supposed to start creating the world's first trillionaires, maybe CK needs to have this opportunity open as well    

Last time we discussed it we went with 6 decimals places and 1 CKM token being a million M.
I've made the token but PJ never delivered the deposit page.
1 CKM = 6 decimals
1 CKM = 1 million

And the supply is a lot more 'normal' with 4 million rather than 40 000.

Looks good to me, if we're going to have 8 dec places on external exchanges, which makes sense, then having '1 "full" M blockchain unit will equal 100,000,000 in-game M units' makes sense too.

I like round numbers, so maybe 10 mil blockchain M with 8 dec places, so 1,000,000,000,000,000 in-game M , i.e. 1 quadrillion game M

Makes sense, but we'd have to multiply the current balance then, since we currently have 4 trillion M, that is the reason we wanted 4 instead of 10.
Guess we could really round it up, shouldn't be hard to code that I guess, but is it really necessary?

I believe the 6 decimal, 1 CKM = 1 Crypto Kingdom Million (Markka) solution we went with is still a viable option.
And a more logical one.

Idea here is that we don't want people dying, losing their accounts, etc. as in the past.

With this I agree, I hated my char dying so I paid some XMR to buy a FOC account.
With the XMR price now, it was quite an expensive account xD

[CrazyLoaf]

Last time we discussed it we went with 6 decimals places and 1 CKM token being a million M.
I've made the token but PJ never delivered the deposit page.

Main thing is, if we are doing a token, it will be a defacto blockchain-based solution.

The prior concept with blockchain M seemed to go as follows. If you wanted to move M out of the game, you'd send to "new" and then whoever held the XCP wallet would create some blockchain M so that you could send it off to an exchange. If you wanted to take the M back in-game, you'd send blockchain M to the address of whoever was running the CK M depo. They'd create M in-game from "new" for you and then send the blockchain M to a burn address on XCP. Too complicated...

The most basic implementation of blockchain M I am looking at will go as follows. Blockchain M will be airdropped to all in-game M holders 1:1 and will replace the old M. Movements of M in-game will occur like on any exchange site, via changing database entries showing M ownership position. Movements out of the game will be sending from one XCP address to another XCP address.

This also leaves open the possibility for a dedicated "burn" address that can be used to increase the value of all M holders equally, say by sending a portion of earned game revenues to it (like BCY and PEPE have done).

In regards to the decimals, 1 XMR = 1mil M back when the monetary base was in the billions. Risto got us to the point where we are now in the trillions, so that relationship should no longer hold.

Almost universally, crypto exchanges use 8 decimal places. And M has to function in-game not just as a currency, but also as a measure for the value or in-game corporations, real estate, debt, etc. 1 quadrillion gets us to a comparable global base, plus allows for people to become "trillionaires" (which if crypto goes according to plan, that is what people like Satoshi and the Winklevoss will become). It also gets us at 10 million starting full units. BCY had 100 million and PEPE had 1 billion. The total can then go down from there according to burns...