CryptoKingdom Uncensored

[boomboom]

We want a more solid technical base in place as well as a basic, automated gameplay structure around land/property and production/consumption for the houses and NPCs. Once that is done, current plan is to launch a Counterparty (XCP) token for M.

Long-term, looking at additional integration of XCP assets in CK as well as using the XCP blockchain for things like account access, public/private key signing, item ownership checkpointing and the like.

Have you considered using a Komodo assetchain? Has bitcoin level security via 'delayed proof of work' notarization, and we would get our own independent chain, so possible to migrate very easily, plus fees are extremely low, and speed is fast. Would also get access to decentralised exchange, BarterDEX.

Isn't XCP too slow and expensive now?

A few reasons for XCP. Open to other ideas, but here are my points for now:

One, is that there are already platforms like "Book of Orbs" and "IndieSquare" for XCP tokens focused around the card-asset mechanic. XCP has its own decentralized exchange as well.

Another is that the majority of blockchain M transactions will be off-chain (as they will be occurring on the CK site). Therefore, fees won't be a concern.

Combined with this, we are planning on using the XCP addresses for signing of player accounts, voting, trading security, and the like. Also hashing/checkpointing a full listing of account items (both blockchain and non-blockchain) using the XCP addresses. As XCP is an older technology, there may be better documentation out there as to how to accomplish the above.

We also plan to allow other XCP card-assets to be added to CK. In other words, we are planning to open up the game for other XCP assets coming in. Say a person brings over some RarePepe cards. They spend some CK currency to assign in-game attributes to the card (and then that is how it is set for all other blockchain card assets of that type).

Maybe someone brings over SALTANDPEPE (http://rarepepedirectory.com/?p=645). Pays to assign a +10% to consumption efficiency in CK for the card holders. It would work in the reverse as well. Tokenize CK assets by paying for the XCP asset creation fee and have them now move on the XCP blockchain.

Overall, we want to get the game to a place where it is moddable by people to create them own gameplay modules. If they want to introduce say a new item and an economy around that item, there are parameters they work around, but they have the freedom to create!

Good answer, that makes sense

[CrazyLoaf]

Think I found a new mascot <3

[Big Naturals]

Any news on the reboot, how are new devs going, any ideas for promoting the re-launch?

A logo/crest contest would be cool

[CrazyLoaf]

Updates Regarding Crypto Kingdom

HIGH!

Building Codebase from Scratch

First off, the developers will be building a game/codebase framework from scratch for CK. The current CK codebase does one thing alright -- the market order system -- but the rest isn't developed or documented at all. As we want to allow player modability, the current codebase just doesn't cut it.  

Developers are considering Django (as it utilizes Python, which a lot of crypto-interacticing codebases use). Development will be made with open source design in mind. The frontend will be open source and the database will use a public/private key setup so it could be be public as well, and hopefully living inside of a blockchain. The backend will be REST API.

Treating Project as Fork; Game Takeover of Risto-Related Assets

The game was paused by Risto in 2016. All the depository chaos was in 2017. We got PJ off the codebase here at the start of 2018. That's almost 2 years of pretty much zero activity on a game where the majority of the depth/action happened from its founding in 2014 to around mid 2015 before it was moved over to the "Ultima" version. Once "Ultima" hit, the scale/scope of the game was majorly narrowed, and we never saw the same level of depth as was present in the spreadsheet version of the game. So that is 2 years with nothing going on really and 1 to 1.5 years of sucky gameplay.

The crypto ecosystem has changed a lot since 2014, and we think several things need to happen for CK to have a chance in the current environment. One issue the game has had since 2017 is Risto's depository nonsense. We have PM'ed with Risto some recently, and others have talked with him in person, and it is pretty clear that he has no interest in returning to CK.

CK had a core group of players on IRC near the end of the "Ultima" days, but even before that, there were many more players who also put money into the game. We are still surprised when talking casually with other crypto types and hearing them mention putting 100, 500, or even 1,000 XMR into the game in 2014/2015. Even a mere 100 XMR is more than $30k in the current market environment! We want these casual types to return to the game. And of course, we have major players like Karl Hungus who put 30,000+ XMR ($9 MILLION PLUS! ) into the game, but who weren't around during the depository madness in 2017.

Overall, the game needs a pathway to growth, which means promotions/marketing to new users, bounties for development efforts, etc. Therefore, what we are going to do is treat this new CK project as a "fork" if you will, meaning that the project/game will be taking over Risto-related accounts and will not be dealing with any of those upaid depository transactions that Risto incurred.

Aside from the fact that the depository withdrawal values are now at laughably high fiat levels due to the recent x10 surge in crypto prices, only about 20 unique users were present and overlapped on the unpaid withdrawal spreadsheets (both B1 and E1). Additionally, many of these same users also still have a sizable amount invested in the game in terms of land, items, and in-game currency, and we hope that revitalizing the game will bring value back to these assets.

To add, there is also the issue of verifying claims, as many did not even include themselves on the spreadsheet (myself included, and I am owed millions of dollars from Risto personally). Just to use one person to illustrate this depository insanity: does it really make sense for the game to compensate a user like "HannaMaaria" 35.8 BTC (so $350k at current values) and 53,500 Euros when she did absolutely nothing for the game and only sang at Risto's embassy for a few hours?

Only looking at major accounts, here is what we are thinking:



Accounts in yellow will be taken over in full by the game. These are either Risto-related accounts or were already game accounts.

Accounts in green are corporations that we believe Risto controlled. In-game currency held by these accounts will be distributed to current shareholders. Then they will just act as holding companies unless a game-specific purpose is created for them later. We are thinking, for example, of NewCorp functioning similar to "Phoenix Trust" as it holds a lot of land/property.

Accounts in orange we are unsure on. If there are any claims to these, let us know. "FuriBliz" in particular looks very suspect.

In any event, this will give the game room to grow without changing relative ownership percentages of in-game currency and items for any other users.

[boomboom]

Treating Project as Fork; Game Takeover of Risto-Related Assets

Overall, the game needs a pathway to growth, which means promotions/marketing to new users, bounties for development efforts, etc. Therefore, what we are going to do is treat this new CK project as a "fork" if you will, meaning that the project/game will be taking over Risto-related accounts and will not be dealing with any of those upaid depository transactions that Risto incurred.

Honestly, there isn't another way forward IMO, and a fork does NOT stop others from trying to continue with the current situation, so nobody is really being disadvantaged, if they don't like the fork they don't have to participate.

I say go for it!!

The only reservation I have is for the accounts 'Soul' and 'LittleFlock', afaik Risto maintained they were real people, and if that's the case it might be worth trying to get a message to them so they can claim their assets if they wish. I don't think that's very likely, but I'd be more comfortable if we gave them a chance to prove they're real people and not just Risto aliases. Maybe 2 months to claim, otherwise add them to dev funds.

Other than that, it's a good plan, and time to move on!

[CrazyLoaf]

The only reservation I have is for the accounts 'Soul' and 'LittleFlock', afaik Risto maintained they were real people...

Based on history, both of these were played by Risto. Many times on the forum, Risto took on the "role" of these accounts. In the game, Risto pretty much used both accounts as his personal reserves, and it is remembered they were utilized during the depo nonsense as well. If, in the deep past, Risto made an arrangement with some outside party regarding these accounts, then they should get in touch with him. 

[Big Naturals]

The only reservation I have is for the accounts 'Soul' and 'LittleFlock', afaik Risto maintained they were real people...

Based on history, both of these were played by Risto. Many times on the forum, Risto took on the "role" of these accounts. In the game, Risto pretty much used both accounts as his personal reserves, and it is remembered they were utilized during the depo nonsense as well. If, in the deep past, Risto made an arrangement with some outside party regarding these accounts, then they should get in touch with him. 

I agree with Loaf, those people should get in touch with Risto and get refunded directly from him, they never played these accounts themselves, and probably don't exist anyway.

[player99]

Yes, go for it! It has been a long wait, any idea when the game could start on a new codebase, before or after the summer?

[CrazyLoaf]

Yes, go for it! It has been a long wait, any idea when the game could start on a new codebase, before or after the summer?

Just to be safe, say after the summer. We are hoping to get some of the basic gameplay restored as well (so rent/production pools, etc.), but looking more towards letting players be able to develop their own game modules for CK, so as to avoid the issue where the creator/king/whatever goes mad and takes the whole game down like paper wallets left next to flaming candles in the embassy

[bv68bot]

Treating Project as Fork; Game Takeover of Risto-Related Assets

Overall, the game needs a pathway to growth, which means promotions/marketing to new users, bounties for development efforts, etc. Therefore, what we are going to do is treat this new CK project as a "fork" if you will, meaning that the project/game will be taking over Risto-related accounts and will not be dealing with any of those upaid depository transactions that Risto incurred.

It's time, save the Game!!

Can't wait to play CK again!

[boomboom]

The only reservation I have is for the accounts 'Soul' and 'LittleFlock', afaik Risto maintained they were real people...

Based on history, both of these were played by Risto. Many times on the forum, Risto took on the "role" of these accounts. In the game, Risto pretty much used both accounts as his personal reserves, and it is remembered they were utilized during the depo nonsense as well. If, in the deep past, Risto made an arrangement with some outside party regarding these accounts, then they should get in touch with him.  

I agree with Loaf, those people should get in touch with Risto and get refunded directly from him, they never played these accounts themselves, and probably don't exist anyway.

You guys are right, we need to remove Risto's personal obligations to other people in order to move forward, and a fork is the best way to do that. I feel sorry for everyone who lost money, but I guess the rest of us can't do much about that now, not without burdening CK into the future. Crypto is always high risk investment!

[iluvbitcoins]

and will not be dealing with any of those upaid depository transactions that Risto incurred.

But the game is going to take Ristos assets?

Don't his assets belong to the people who have unpaid debts from his charachters?

His assets should be auctioned off and his 'M' spread evenely among B1 withdrawals
B1 losses are quite real, some people have invested real XMR for the purchase of B1

I agree this is not the games debt, but it IS Ristos debt.

I'm positive the game will acquire enough donations as this community has always primed in donating, whether it was to PJ or someone else.
Enough donations will occur.

However, Risto has an active debt, an if we're going to do something with his assets, we should transfer the funds to people holding the debt.
Later on they will voluntary donate to the game if they choose so.

[Big Naturals]

and will not be dealing with any of those upaid depository transactions that Risto incurred.

But the game is going to take Ristos assets?

Don't his assets belong to the people who have an unpaid debt from his charachter?

In Loaf's forked version of CK Risto's assets are being used to pay for dev costs and marketing, in another fork Risto's assets could be used to pay his debts from the original CK, in another fork Risto's assets could just be deleted from the Game DB, in another they could be airdropped onto leprechauns.

The original CK will still exist, this is a fork, and as we all know from bitcoin history forks aren't universally supported, and everyone will be free to dump their CK fork assets and not participate if they don't like what's happening.

I don't see any other choice now, Speed has gone dark on his reboot and fund raising, Loaf is having a shot at a fork, what else is there? The game needs dev funds.

[iluvbitcoins]

and will not be dealing with any of those upaid depository transactions that Risto incurred.

But the game is going to take Ristos assets?

Don't his assets belong to the people who have an unpaid debt from his charachter?

In Loaf's forked version of CK Risto's assets are being used to pay for dev costs and marketing, in another fork Risto's assets could be used to pay his debts from the original CK, in another fork Risto's assets could just be deleted from the Game DB, in another they could be airdropped onto leprechauns.

The original CK will still exist, this is a fork, and as we all know from bitcoin history forks aren't universally supported, and everyone will be free to dump their CK fork assets and not participate if they don't like what's happening.

I don't see any other choice now, Speed has gone dark on his reboot and fund raising, Loaf is having a shot at a fork, what else is there? The game needs dev funds.

We have talked about donations one time for starting the game, lots of people have pledged lots of XMR, in hundreds.
We could easily gather the money to develop the game.

In order to ensure full support of the current community, and fairness among all, I urge Loaf to distribute Ristos assets to people who he has an outstanding B1 debt with.

I ensure him, that certainly huge donations can and will be gathered among the people from ingame assets, M, XMR and BTC.
And honoring the current agreements will ensure the support of the fork among previous players of Crypto Kingdom.

[Big Naturals]

We have talked about donations one time for starting the game, lots of people have pledged lots of XMR, in hundreds.
We could easily gather the money to develop the game.

In order to ensure full support of the current community, and fairness among all, I urge Loaf to distribute Ristos assets to people who he has an outstanding B1 debt with.

I ensure him, that certainly huge donations can and will be gathered among the people from ingame assets, M, XMR and BTC.
And honoring the current agreements will ensure the support of the fork among previous players of Crypto Kingdom.

There's no reason not to try raising donations for those that want to continue with CK legacy and want the Game to honor Risto's debts, but if people want to go with a fork, so be it. This isn't an either/or choice, you can support CK legacy and this fork at the same time, I don't think anyone is happy about this, but the reality is the Game is dead unless something happens now.

The Game has been stalled for 2 years now, Loaf has devs working on new code and design for the Game, I don't like what happened with Risto's depo debts, but it's his responsibility to pay, not the Game or any other players. If Loaf starts a CK fork, he calls the shots in that fork only.

[iluvbitcoins]

We have talked about donations one time for starting the game, lots of people have pledged lots of XMR, in hundreds.
We could easily gather the money to develop the game.

In order to ensure full support of the current community, and fairness among all, I urge Loaf to distribute Ristos assets to people who he has an outstanding B1 debt with.

I ensure him, that certainly huge donations can and will be gathered among the people from ingame assets, M, XMR and BTC.
And honoring the current agreements will ensure the support of the fork among previous players of Crypto Kingdom.

There's no reason not to try raising donations for those that want to continue with CK legacy and want the Game to honor Risto's debts, but if people want to go with a fork, so be it. This isn't an either/or choice, you can support CK legacy and this fork at the same time, I don't think anyone is happy about this, but the reality is the Game is dead unless something happens now.

Which part do you not understand?
I'm aware it's a fork, and I have no say in it, but I'm trying to urge Loaf to reconsider this.

The Game has been stalled for 2 years now, Loaf has devs working on new code and design for the Game, I don't like what happened with Risto's depo debts, but it's his responsibility to pay, not the Game or any other players. If Loaf starts a CK fork, he calls the shots in that fork only.

So why are HIS assets not being used to pay other players?  

I'm aware we currently have no alternative, but saying we should shut up and not talk to Loaf is wrong.
A game doesn't grow without a clash of ideas.
His word is going to be the last, since it is his fork, but we can still talk to him and hope he listens

[Big Naturals]

We have talked about donations one time for starting the game, lots of people have pledged lots of XMR, in hundreds.
We could easily gather the money to develop the game.

In order to ensure full support of the current community, and fairness among all, I urge Loaf to distribute Ristos assets to people who he has an outstanding B1 debt with.

I ensure him, that certainly huge donations can and will be gathered among the people from ingame assets, M, XMR and BTC.
And honoring the current agreements will ensure the support of the fork among previous players of Crypto Kingdom.

There's no reason not to try raising donations for those that want to continue with CK legacy and want the Game to honor Risto's debts, but if people want to go with a fork, so be it. This isn't an either/or choice, you can support CK legacy and this fork at the same time, I don't think anyone is happy about this, but the reality is the Game is dead unless something happens now.

Which part do you not understand?
I'm aware it's a fork, and I have no say in it, but I'm trying to urge Loaf to reconsider this.

The Game has been stalled for 2 years now, Loaf has devs working on new code and design for the Game, I don't like what happened with Risto's depo debts, but it's his responsibility to pay, not the Game or any other players. If Loaf starts a CK fork, he calls the shots in that fork only.

So why are HIS assets not being used to pay other players?  

I'm aware we currently have no alternative, but saying we should shut up and not talk to Loaf is wrong.
A game doesn't grow without a clash of ideas.
His word is going to be the last, since it is his fork, but we can still talk to him and hope he listens

I'm sorry, I did not say you should shut up and not talk, of course you should try and convince people towards your point of view.

[CrazyLoaf]

As a community, we gave PJ a year (2015 - 2016) to actually develop a game worth playing. He didn't do that, and although he lingered on until late 2017, it's clear from the codebase that the bulk of the work he did was during that initial move from Google Docs to the website in 2015.  

We gave Risto a year (2016 - 2017) to fix the game after the pause. He didn't do that, but somehow managed to blow through tens of millions of dollars while also racking up tens of millions in debts.

The community had another year (2017 - 2018) to try to resolve things on its own. Instead, the game went from low to essentially zero activity. You can't even deposit XMR into the game anymore as https://deposit.cryptokingdomgold.com/ has returned "502 Bad Gateway" for at least the past week.

The game is taking over those accounts outlined earlier for development and marketing and not recognizing Risto's unpaid depository items. Literally no new player will join a game with around $10 million dollars in "debt" associated with around 50% of the game. Hell, if the E1/Euro is converted to BTC/XMR at the time of "withdrawal" and then brought to current market prices, the depo nonsense is even more insane.

Again, it makes zero sense to give the singer at the embassy -- burnt down due to an unattended candle left next to tens of millions of dollars of paper wallets (without any backups, ofc x3) for kindling -- over $400k as a result of the depo stuff. We saw one player who was barely active on the forums, isn't signed into IRC, etc. who has 115.5 BTC on that spreadsheet. So just casually give one person over a million dollars and another $400k? Then the game is out around a million and a half bucks and still doesn't have a game

Also, the current distribution is a mess with Risto-related accounts owning 50% of the in-game currency. Dominance was never that HIGH in the past. That has to be fixed, and we would like to see 100 - 1,000 active, new players. If Risto's stuff was locked and current players weren't diluted, then where do the new players (which the game desperately needs as #2 on its master plan, behind #1 - an actual game!) squeeze into?

Finally, to address any economic arguments that have been mentioned in the past, if we relaunch CK and try to give all old players their in-game currency, land, etc., there is still going to be a huge chunk (20%-30%, possibly more) that probably won't even bother accessing their accounts. For example, we have Hugh Mungus Karl Hungus with 10% of in-game currency, a ton of land, over 30k XMR invested in the game, and he was last seen Feb. 2018 and last posted Sept. 2017.

[boomboom]

Literally no new player will join a game with around $10 million dollars in "debt" associated with around 50% of the game.

^^This,  CK still has great potential, but starting any reboot 10 mil USD underwater makes it almost impossible.

Finally, to address any economic arguments that have been mentioned in the past, if we relaunch CK and try to give all old players their in-game currency, land, etc., there is still going to be a huge chunk (20%-30%, possibly more) that probably won't even bother accessing their accounts. For example, we have Hugh Mungus Karl Hungus with 10% of in-game currency, a ton of land, over 30k XMR invested in the game, and he was last seen Feb. 2018 and last posted Sept. 2017.

KH might not come back himself anytime soon, but I invested in Gringotts last year at Karl's invitation, and I'm managing the Gringotts market making account that has the ~460 bil 'M', and the remaining 'Phoenix Trust' shares which Karl setup in 2017 to assetize his large property portfolio.

Gringotts account is below
https://cryptokingdom.me/player/playerItems/1963

PhoenixTrust had a manager (hopefully still active), and PhoenixTrust assets are trading on Agora, so those real estate assets are still in play.

afaik he put all his remaining collectible items like coins in a FOC managed by Roopatra, and they also had a joint venture partnership in UnicornCorp which I don't know much about, other than it exists since the beginning of the Game almost.

So KH's economic footprint is still 100% active.

Karl told me last time we communicated in January that he's not following crypto while he concentrates on his health, but I can contact him in an emergency, and hopefully one day to distribute some returns to his family.

I'll be taking care of Gringotts market making operations as the junior partner in KH's absence.

[bv68bot]

Literally no new player will join a game with around $10 million dollars in "debt" associated with around 50% of the game.

^^This,  CK still has great potential, but starting any reboot 10 mil USD underwater makes it almost impossible.

CK is like a DAO where the game is owned by the players, Loaf is correct, nobody will invest new funds into a venture with this level of debt

what CK needs most to recover is a critical mass of active players, so the choice is between:

1- a fresh start, start by auctioning off game currency like gold or M as Risto did originally in 2014 to get dev funds i.e an ICO

2- write off the existing debts and fork the DB, use Risto's accounts as dev funds

Neither is a good option, 1- writes off everyone's in-game wealth, but 2- writes off only those owed b1 and e1 by Risto and some proxy accounts that might be his friends.

Anyone still following CK is certainly sitting on massively devalued in-game assets and wont invest anymore funds, or those who successfully bailed during the depo exit opportunity but still find CK interesting enough to keep watching. Getting new people requires consolidating the players already here, and that means not disadvantaging them anymore than they already have, BUT, unless someone has a great idea for generating 10 mil USD to pay off past debts, the obvious conclusion is to follow Loaf's roadmap, not because it's 'fair', but because there's no alternative other than starting over from scratch with a new game entirely..

The only other alternative to Loaf's roadmap would be trying to get some of the old players who exited with good profits when the depos were active to re-invest, but how likely is that, and at what terms? Doesn't seem likely, not unless CK is already up and running, so it's a chicken & egg problem getting those guys to re-invest.

Unless the devs Loaf has are working for free we'll need dev funds long before any chance of ever paying off 10mil of debts. If you work through the options Loaf's plan has the best chance of kickstarting the game enough to get new players, Risto's accounts are substantial, and using those assets doesn't dilute existing players, but it does get the dev ball rolling.