So if you receive faulty goods we have to pay for more to replace them?
Surely this should be factored into the cost and we get 100% working products. This is the risk in assembling hardware, how is it fair to offload that risk completely onto your customers? Will you be charging more if one of the capacitors, PCBs, voltage regulators or transistors you buy is dodgy too?
Some of us just want to just pay and get a working product, not worry about whether when you're making 'our' miner that something could go wrong and we end up having to pay more/organise chip replacements, receive refunds for extra spare chips unused etc. Its hassle, and some of us don't have the time or patience for that.
Anyway, what's the ETA and total USD cost on being able to order a 'working klondike miner'? Having to pay in 2 different currencies and having to preorder potential extra parts for you to use in production is awkward and odd.
Simply stated, yes. Avalon has not mentioned anything about a warranty for their chips, or any service at all for the purchase. Additionally, should they agree to replace faulty chips, the time required to ship the faulty units back to the manufacturer and receive new ones will cause significant delays in producing assembled miners.
Faulty chips have not, and will not, be included in the purchasing cost. This was stated quite clearly in the OP in the FAQ section:
Can you guarantee Avalon ships the chips on time and undamaged?
I cannot guarantee something outside of my control will not happen.
I cannot guarantee something I do not control, however unlikely it is for the situation to occur. A flock of geese may fly in the engine of the plane delivering the chips, causing it to crash in the ocean and all our chips may end up as decorations for the inside the Crusoe’s treehouse. While incredibly unlikely (and fictitious), this illustrates the point.
The PCB and associated components required to produce the functioning miner (minus the ASICs) will, however, be 100% functioning at the time of shipment, at no additional cost. The PCB can be tested as functioning and rejected should it not meet the electrical test. Faulty board components can be tested to ensure they work, and replaced before shipping. Those concerns have already been addressed and priced in. Additional components and PCBs will be purchased; electrical testing will be performed. I mentioned earlier that I had received quotes which were less expensive than the company I chose to proceed with. One of the reasons they were cheaper is due to the lack of testing and warranty from defects, and a large part of the reason I chose to use a company that stood behind their product, even though they were not the cheapest.
I understand this is not an optimal solution. It is a hassle to purchase additional chips and receive refunds for those that are not used. I wish it could be avoided, but it simply cannot. We do not have an SLA with Avalon. There is no way to ensure the chips are fully functional. This is a risk everyone who participates in purchasing these chips must understand, and is no different than any other group buy or assembly service available. I suggest you speak with other assembly or group buys and ask them what their plan is for chip replacement. I suspect you may find they do not have one, have not considered it, and will end up in a sticky situation should it occur.
There has been no mention of paying in two different currencies. While component cost and assembly is based on USD values, it may or may not be due in USD. Ideally, everything will be available for BTC. Unfortunately, the rest of the world does not yet accept BTC. These prices are currently being sourced, and will be released when solid numbers are available.
I have not, nor will I, release any prices I am not reasonably sure are accurate. I understand this makes it difficult to budget the correct amount and run ROI spreadsheets. I believe it is better to do it right the first time rather than shoot from the hip and apologize when the target is missed. There are other group buys/companies which have proven remarkably adept at this currently accepting pre-orders.
What is this in BTC (Assume since FAQ says only BTC this is also in BTC?)
PCB and components: $35 per 16 chip board
Assembly: $60 per 16 chip board
Basically looking for a batch 4 total in BTC for 16 chip board fully assembled with normal shipping
The currency accepted for components and assembly is TBA. To find the price in BTC, divide $95 by the current market price.
What is this in BTC (Assume since FAQ says only BTC this is also in BTC?)
PCB and components: $35 per 16 chip board
Assembly: $60 per 16 chip board
Basically looking for a batch 4 total in BTC for 16 chip board fully assembled with normal shipping
No, the chips can only be purchased from Avalon in BTC, which means we can only pay for them as such. The other components and assembly will be coming from suppliers/shops that deal in USD, hence, you'll most likely be paying in USD for everything but the chips.
Final pricing is currently being sourced. And will be available shortly. It is possible to determine the price based on the retail values of the components required. As we are purchasing wholesale, through distributors not available to the public, the price per unit will be less expensive, and the savings will be passed on to the end user. Retail pricing may be posted to give an idea of a high side price.
Hey Steamboat, I have a question about the following:
******************************* Quote Steamboat *****************
For purchased orders prior to today.
The above applies to all orders previously purchased, with the following exceptions.
Customers which have already made a purchase will have the option to purchase additional chips for the original price of BTC0.086, so long as there are chips available, and any chips purchased and not used may be refunded the purchase price or shipped along with the completed units.
In the event the reserve is depleted, customers with an incomplete amount of chips may opt to be refunded BTC0.0939 for the remainder.
In an effort to ensure there are enough reserve chips, and they are distributed evenly, the board add-on has had the following change.
Customers wishing to purchase additional chips to round their order up to the next full board must have at least 50% of the chips required.
Finally, 100 chips have been set aside in each purchase from both the reserves, and my personal purchase, to be used as equilibrium chips. In the event a customer experiences a disproportionate amount of faulty chips in comparison to the rest of the group, these chips will be used as replacements at no additional charge. Any requests for these chips to be used for your order will almost certainly ensure you do not receive them.
*********************************
So, as I understand it, you're setting aside 100 chips for orders 1-3 for "backup purposes".
For order 4, backup chips are the customer's responsibility right?
Obviously at this time, we do not what the possible behavior of the Klondike board will be with one "bad" chip. It may take out the other 3 chips around it or may not.
Anyway, I have a more complicated question.
What if there is a customer with multiple chips in multiple orders? I will use myself as an example here. I have 32 chips in order one and 48 chips in order two.
Say during testing, 2 chips are discovered bad on one of my order 1 boards. Then those two chips are covered by the 100 "backup chips" in order one for free? Right?
And then 2 chips are found bad on one of my boards in order 2, then those two chips are also covered by the 100 "backup chips" in order 2 for free?
I dunno, it's your deal and I'll go along with whatever, but that seems a bit too generous I suppose.
Technically, I could opt to take delivery of the bad unit as long as it hashes with most of its chips, and not use up the back-up chips? Do we have any idea of the cost of this testing yet?
Or, could I opt to have you hold onto the defective unit until order 2 chips are in and use my own chips for backup??? Of course, that would mean I'd be short for order 2, but that would be another problem...
Anyway, what I'm working around to asking is, there could, in theory, be a "cascading effect" for some unlucky bastard, if we run into a high failure rate of chips and the 100 "backup chips" are not enough. Then that becomes the responsibility of the customer to deal with it as best they see fit? Like having a unit hash at a lower speed, etc..
Sorry, a bunch of questions popped into my head.
There are more than 100 chips in each batch set aside for backup purposes. The 100 in question are to ensure no one customer receives a disproportionate amount of faulty chips.
Backup chips are the customers responsibility in every batch.
Please verify the following: Klondike handles each board in two sets. If one chip completely breaks down, at worst it will only disable 8 chips. More likely to occur is the chip malfunctioning, but leaving the remaining 7 in the set functioning properly.
The following is very important, please take note.
Say during testing, 2 chips are discovered bad on one of my order 1 boards. Then those two chips are covered by the 100 "backup chips" in order one for free? Right?
Finally, 100 chips have been set aside in each purchase from both the reserves, and my personal purchase, to be used as equilibrium chips. In the event a customer experiences a disproportionate amount of faulty chips in comparison to the rest of the group, these chips will be used as replacements at no additional charge. Any requests for these chips to be used for your order will almost certainly ensure you do not receive them.
The 100 chips will be used at my discretion, in an attempt to ensure no one receives a disproportionate amount of faulty chips should any be discovered. This does not relieve anyone of their responsibility to provide additional chips should a chip fail. There are chips in addition to the 100 available should a customer fail to purchase enough spares, which are available at the standard .086BTC per chip for batch 1-3. Any customer from the time of the original update who chooses not to purchase spare chips may do so during assembly for an increased price of .0939BTC.
Yes, the 100 chip safety net is being provided as service free of charge, and will be paid for from the proceeds of this group buy.
Chip testing may be free, it may cost a nominal fee. It depends on the protocol created, and who is doing it. In the event I personally do the testing, it most likely will be free.
I thank all of you for asking these questions. There are several scenarios which had not been evaluated prior to being brought up in the thread, and have proved invaluable.
All orders received, recorded, replied.
I will be out of the office most of tonight to work on the website and have meetings with the rest of the crew. I will check in from time to time to answer any questions.
