julz
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November 10, 2011, 05:45:47 AM
Last edit: November 11, 2011, 07:19:30 AM by julz |
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Working Paper (pdf) On Bitcoin and Red Balloons 2011-11-02 Moshe Babaioff, Shahar Dobzinski, Sigal Oren, and Aviv Zohar. https://sites.google.com/site/dobzin/papers/bitcoin.pdf?attredirects=0Abstract We study scenarios in which the goal is to ensure that some information will propagate through a large network of nodes. In these scenarios all nodes that are aware of the information compete for the same prize, and thus have an incentive not to propagate information. One example for such a scenario is the 2009 DARPA Network Challenge (finding red balloons). We give special attention to a second domain, Bitcoin, a decentralized electronic currency system. Bitcoin, which has been getting a large amount of public attention over the last year, represents a radical new approach to monetary systems which has appeared in policy discussions and in the popular press [3, 11]. Its cryptographic fundamentals have largely held up even as its usage has become increasingly widespread. We find, however, that it exhibits a fundamental problem of a di®erent nature, based on how its incentives are structured. We propose a modification to the protocol that can fix this problem. Bitcoin relies on a peer-to-peer network to track transactions that are performed with the currency. For this purpose, every transaction a node learns about should be transmitted to its neighbors in the network. As the protocol is currently defined and implemented, it does not provide an incentive for nodes to broadcast transactions they are aware of. In fact, it provides a strong incentive not to do so. Our solution is to augment the protocol with a scheme that rewards information propagation. We show that our proposed scheme succeeds in setting the correct incentives, that it is Sybil-proof, and that it requires only a small payment overhead, all this is achieved with iterated elimination of dominated strategies. We provide lower bounds on the overhead that is required to implement schemes with the stronger solution concept of Dominant Strategies, indicating that such schemes might be impractical. This paper is also available on Microsoft Resarch: http://research.microsoft.com/apps/pubs/default.aspx?id=156072(At least 2 of the authors are researchers at Microsoft Research, Silicon Valley) |
@electricwings BM-GtyD5exuDJ2kvEbr41XchkC8x9hPxdFd
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Once a transaction has 6 confirmations, it is extremely unlikely that an attacker without at least 50% of the network's computation power would be able to reverse it.
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paraipan
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November 10, 2011, 11:09:56 AM
Last edit: November 10, 2011, 11:46:44 AM by paraipan |
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"Each node on the path in the tree from the seed to the authorizer appears on this chain..." yeah i get the point, some individuals realized they can't possibly trace transactions to their origin and now they try with social engineering schemes. Honest ppl will relay traffic regardless of their personal gain so they add value to the system, just like running a tor node, by helping other peers be free. They just suppose all nodes are miners, in their calculations. I think it's a small price to pay for all the advantages i get in exchange  |
BTCitcoin: An Idea Worth Saving - Q&A with bitcoins on rugatu.com - Check my rep
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finway
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November 10, 2011, 11:57:32 AM |
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Working Paper (pdf) On Bitcoin and Red Balloons 2011-11-02 Moshe Babaioff, Shahar Dobzinski, Sigal Oren, and Aviv Zohar. https://sites.google.com/site/dobzin/papers/bitcoin.pdf?attredirects=0Abstract We study scenarios in which the goal is to ensure that some information will propagate through a large network of nodes. In these scenarios all nodes that are aware of the information compete for the same prize, and thus have an incentive not to propagate information. One example for such a scenario is the 2009 DARPA Network Challenge (finding red balloons). We give special attention to a second domain, Bitcoin, a decentralized electronic currency system. Bitcoin, which has been getting a large amount of public attention over the last year, represents a radical new approach to monetary systems which has appeared in policy discussions and in the popular press [3, 11]. Its cryptographic fundamentals have largely held up even as its usage has become increasingly widespread. We find, however, that it exhibits a fundamental problem of a di®erent nature, based on how its incentives are structured. We propose a modification to the protocol that can fix this problem. Bitcoin relies on a peer-to-peer network to track transactions that are performed with the currency. For this purpose, every transaction a node learns about should be transmitted to its neighbors in the network. As the protocol is currently defined and implemented, it does not provide an incentive for nodes to broadcast transactions they are aware of. In fact, it provides a strong incentive not to do so. Our solution is to augment the protocol with a scheme that rewards information propagation. We show that our proposed scheme succeeds in setting the correct incentives, that it is Sybil-proof, and that it requires only a small payment overhead, all this is achieved with iterated elimination of dominated strategies. We provide lower bounds on the overhead that is required to implement schemes with the stronger solution concept of Dominant Strategies, indicating that such schemes might be impractical. Gavin have talked about the incentive of relaying transactions, maybe someone have the solutions? The number of nodes is declining steadily. |
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netrin
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November 10, 2011, 01:33:46 PM |
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Miners have a tit-for-tat incentive to propagate transactions to each other as quickly and reliably as possible. They might also have an incentive to collude. There is little incentive for an end-user to propagate transactions ('better for the whole') nor for miners to propagate to end-users, except that the costs of doing so are negligible compared to the discovery benefits. I'm cool with an ad-hoc central core of miners. With lower latency and higher reliability, the block rate could theoretically be lowered (faster confirmations), though other solutions such as green addresses or side channel credit transactions should be acceptable enough and instantaneous.
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MoonShadow
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November 10, 2011, 07:05:11 PM |
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The number of nodes is declining steadily.
What do you base this statement upon? |
"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."
- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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wareen
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Revolutionizing Brokerage of Personal Data
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November 10, 2011, 07:14:33 PM |
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The number of nodes is declining steadily.
What do you base this statement upon? Maybe graphs like this: http://bitcoinstatus.rowit.co.uk/ ? |
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MoonShadow
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November 10, 2011, 07:55:03 PM |
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That chart likely wouldn't record my own 'shy' client, and I'm sure that there are more than just mine. |
"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."
- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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wareen
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Revolutionizing Brokerage of Personal Data
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November 10, 2011, 08:15:13 PM |
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That chart likely wouldn't record my own 'shy' client, and I'm sure that there are more than just mine.
True and there are a number of other reasons why this number might go down - for example mining got more centralized due to lower profitability, people regaining confidence in webwallets, etc. From a network security point of view in the spirit of the cited paper the reasons are however pretty much irrelevant. I don't think we have to worry yet, but it is arguably easier to do certain kinds of attacks with fewer nodes listening for connections. Anyway, we probably should take this discussion some thread else. |
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jjiimm_64
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November 11, 2011, 04:20:12 AM |
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1jimbitm6hAKTjKX4qurCNQubbnk2YsFw
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casascius
Mike Caldwell
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The Casascius 1oz 10BTC Silver Round (w/ Gold B)
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November 11, 2011, 04:43:41 AM |
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CBS news station KOLD in Tucson Arizona is currently showing a video commercial for an upcoming TV story about Bitcoin that will air at their 10:00 news which starts about 20 minutes from now (10:00 PM Arizona time, 0500 UTC). The video commercial is now visible on their website, as well as a prominent advertising blurb on the station's home page. http://www.kold.comIt appears there is a link on the home page that allows live watching of the newscast. |
Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable. I never believe them. If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins. I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion. Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice. Don't keep coins online. Use paper or hardware wallets instead.
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netrin
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November 11, 2011, 12:29:45 PM |
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Mike, you're a rock star. Great work. It's strange they framed you as 'the man in the cloud' or whatever you'd call the scratchy effect. But the apple pie living room background was an excellent touch. I wonder how they'd frame some eskimo on a whale hunt trading bitcoins over a sat link.  |
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molecular
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November 11, 2011, 01:56:26 PM |
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CBS news station KOLD in Tucson Arizona is currently showing a video commercial for an upcoming TV story about Bitcoin that will air at their 10:00 news which starts about 20 minutes from now (10:00 PM Arizona time, 0500 UTC). The video commercial is now visible on their website, as well as a prominent advertising blurb on the station's home page. http://www.kold.comIt appears there is a link on the home page that allows live watching of the newscast. So it aired? Anyone have a link/recording? |
PGP key molecular F9B70769 fingerprint 9CDD C0D3 20F8 279F 6BE0 3F39 FC49 2362 F9B7 0769
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gusti
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November 11, 2011, 01:58:03 PM |
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CBS news station KOLD in Tucson Arizona is currently showing a video commercial for an upcoming TV story about Bitcoin that will air at their 10:00 news which starts about 20 minutes from now (10:00 PM Arizona time, 0500 UTC). The video commercial is now visible on their website, as well as a prominent advertising blurb on the station's home page. http://www.kold.comIt appears there is a link on the home page that allows live watching of the newscast. So it aired? Anyone have a link/recording? |
If you don't own the private keys, you don't own the coins.
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molecular
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November 11, 2011, 03:41:42 PM |
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CBS news station KOLD in Tucson Arizona is currently showing a video commercial for an upcoming TV story about Bitcoin that will air at their 10:00 news which starts about 20 minutes from now (10:00 PM Arizona time, 0500 UTC). The video commercial is now visible on their website, as well as a prominent advertising blurb on the station's home page. http://www.kold.comIt appears there is a link on the home page that allows live watching of the newscast. So it aired? Anyone have a link/recording? Ken Colburn of Data Doctors fear-mongers: "You wanna be careful to use bitcoin. You wanna be careful with entities that are asking you to use bitcoin as their currency, cause there's generally [twitches, grins] nnnyeah, there's a possibility that they're trying to hide something." Mike did his best to counter this and other objections: "I don't have a philisophical problem with the government, I pay my taxes, as I should, I'm a good citizen, I follow the laws..." My favorite part is the narrator, because it totally gives away how uninformed the producers must be: "an e-mail to one of bitcoins managers has never been returned". lol, I wonder why this bitcoin company doesn't answer emails... hmmm. The clip leans a little too much against bitcoin to be called "unbiased" |
PGP key molecular F9B70769 fingerprint 9CDD C0D3 20F8 279F 6BE0 3F39 FC49 2362 F9B7 0769
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julz
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November 13, 2011, 10:51:16 AM |
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@electricwings BM-GtyD5exuDJ2kvEbr41XchkC8x9hPxdFd
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julz
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November 15, 2011, 01:25:28 AM |
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@electricwings BM-GtyD5exuDJ2kvEbr41XchkC8x9hPxdFd
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julz
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November 15, 2011, 01:33:20 AM |
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IMTFI INSTITUTE FOR MONEY, TECHNOLOGY & FINANCIAL INCLUSION Funny Money Roundup 2011-11-14 http://blog.imtfi.uci.edu/2011/11/funny-money-roundup.html... Remember bitcoin? Yeah, us too. Some seem to think that the bubble has burst, and, indeed, the value of a bitcoin has dropped over the past several months to under US$2 from a high of over US$30. But the bitcoin phenomenon offers a fascinating window onto debates about the value of money, the role of government, as well as complementary, alternative, and crypto-currencies. ... |
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julz
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November 15, 2011, 01:55:03 AM |
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@electricwings BM-GtyD5exuDJ2kvEbr41XchkC8x9hPxdFd
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julz
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November 15, 2011, 01:13:19 PM |
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Slashdot picks up on the recent 'On Bitcoin and Red Balloons' paper - but the submitter goes for a more dramatic title. I know slashdot loves to hate bitcoin - but 'flaw in the protocol' is a bit of a stretch for what seems more like a suggestion for a potential optimisation. |
@electricwings BM-GtyD5exuDJ2kvEbr41XchkC8x9hPxdFd
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