BITCOINDENMARK


July 22, 2017, 08:53:47 PM 

as usual we pay for the dev fase but don't necessarily get roi that reflects that







Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.





HagssFIN


July 22, 2017, 09:25:51 PM 

That calculation will be wrong by the time these miners arrive, because network difficulty will rise a lot.




TenaciousJ


July 22, 2017, 09:30:34 PM 

That calculation will be wrong by the time these miners arrive, because network difficulty will rise a lot.
I've been trying to wrap my head around figuring a trajectory for difficulty in order to realistically calculate the ROI for these boxes IF they can do what Inno claims they can. That's a tough problem to solve since we have no idea how many they're making in the first batch, or how many Antminer D3's have been sold in their first batch (and possibly 2nd) that will drive up difficulty. Any theories on what should be expected given current difficulty?




HagssFIN


July 22, 2017, 09:36:38 PM 

Too many variables, impossible to guess. At least Baikal, Innosilicon, PinIdea, iBeLink and Bitmain are in this X11 miner game. And we don't know their miner batch quantities. This said, I still went ahead earlier and was lucky enough to buy one Antminer D3 in time. edit:Thanks. Wish you all the best




bitcoinexplorer


July 22, 2017, 09:39:35 PM 

Too many variables, impossible to guess. At least Baikal, Innosilicon, PinIdea, iBeLink and Bitmain are in this X11 miner game. And we don't know their miner batch quantities.
This said, I still went ahead earlier and was lucky enough to buy one Antminer D3 in time.
Wish you all the best




equi
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 2
Merit: 0


July 22, 2017, 09:53:14 PM 

I can see in this chart that the dash mining difficulty doubled only during the last month. https://www.coinwarz.com/difficultycharts/dashdifficultychartAnd that's without these super powerful beasts in the market. So how possible it is the difficulty will follow this trend and by the time we get the A5 the difficulty will be 8x  16x higher than now? Which would mean the profitability will be lower by the same multiple? Is that a viable scenario?




mustangy


July 22, 2017, 10:29:09 PM 

a5 38gh/s (overclocked) $9.999.00 $262 per gh/s sep 30th delivery d3 15gh/s $2.699.00 $179 per gh/s sep 1525 delivery but a5 is still in stock by october dash hashrate will skyrocketing and i m sure institutional buyer in china will get their machine before us clients this is must be considered when ordering i just get 2 d3 to test what the hell going on
Sound interesting how u get 2 of them ? New batch is not open ... A5 to expensive for me ... my pricepoll give me 8K no more ... I want to buy two for my self ... Scammer stay away from me, i gona pay for escrow ... i get first sep 1525 batch and was open now sold out

always have antminers and psu for sale please dm



usao
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1064
Merit: 1000


July 22, 2017, 11:06:19 PM 

I put an order for 3 in right after they came out, but still havent received any email.




QuintLeo
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1022


July 23, 2017, 12:56:01 AM 

What you are missing is that the iBelink unit should already be shipping, Baikal is still shipping units, the D3 is supposed to ship at least a week before the A5, and ALL of those are going to hammer the total network hashrate on X11 coins dropping profitablilty a TON by the time the first batch of all 4 of the "large new" miners get shipped. I won't be shocked if DASH total network hashrate is 10 TIMES the "right now" figure by early November. With that said, as long as DASH price doesn't collapse all of these miners should have a good chance to pay themselves off, IF you get in early enough.

I'm no longer legendary just in my own mind! Like something I said? Donations gratefully accepted. LYLnTKvLefz9izJFUvEGQEZzSkz34b3N6U (Litecoin) 1GYbjMTPdCuV7dci3iCUiaRrcNuaiQrVYY (Bitcoin)



TenaciousJ


July 23, 2017, 01:39:18 AM 

What you are missing is that the iBelink unit should already be shipping, Baikal is still shipping units, the D3 is supposed to ship at least a week before the A5, and ALL of those are going to hammer the total network hashrate on X11 coins dropping profitablilty a TON by the time the first batch of all 4 of the "large new" miners get shipped. I won't be shocked if DASH total network hashrate is 10 TIMES the "right now" figure by early November. With that said, as long as DASH price doesn't collapse all of these miners should have a good chance to pay themselves off, IF you get in early enough. Yeah, big IF unfortunately.




chiwalfrm
Member
Offline
Activity: 76
Merit: 10


July 23, 2017, 02:07:50 AM 

The current calculations only take into account the current hashrate. These new miners coming out in AugOct are magnitudes more effective than current stateoftheart miners. Therefore, the hash will jump 1020 times by October, and you should divide that $15k by 15 to get the accurate return by October. So instead of $15k per month you would get $1k. Or more. Or less depending on actual numbers.




TenaciousJ


July 23, 2017, 02:28:14 AM 

The current calculations only take into account the current hashrate. These new miners coming out in AugOct are magnitudes more effective than current stateoftheart miners. Therefore, the hash will jump 1020 times by October, and you should divide that $15k by 15 to get the accurate return by October. So instead of $15k per month you would get $1k. Or more. Or less depending on actual numbers. It also depends on how many miners there are and how much of the overall hashrate is comprised of high power ASICs. If only 10% of the total hashrate (currently 15TH I think) comes from these ASICs, the differential in difficulty will not be a direct correlation to their individual hashing power, but as a percentage increase of total power on the network. 1.5TH would be about 500 A5 Dashmasters, if the batch is that size, so that's 10% of the network. Add another 750gh from an approximately comparable size Antminer D3 batch size since it's 1/2 as powerful. So that's 2.25TH of the total new network hash power total of 17.25TH on the network after the first batches of these new models goes online (unless the batches are MUCH larger, which seems unlikely). So what we're really looking at difficulty wise is a 14% increase in network hashrate give or take a couple percent, so I would expect a differential increase comparable to the increase in total net hash, rather than one directly correlated in a 1:1 ratio based on how much more powerful these particular devices are. There are also other factors to consider, such as miners leaving the network because the difficulty goes up too high for their profit margins to hold (vis a vis Ethereum), and that will reduce the overall network capacity, slowing the rate of difficulty increase for a while at least. EDIT: Caveat to the analysis, that is 14% ON TOP of the normal difficulty increase rate that we're already witnessing, which is pretty steep as is.




bitcoinexplorer


July 23, 2017, 02:32:29 AM 

The current calculations only take into account the current hashrate. These new miners coming out in AugOct are magnitudes more effective than current stateoftheart miners. Therefore, the hash will jump 1020 times by October, and you should divide that $15k by 15 to get the accurate return by October. So instead of $15k per month you would get $1k. Or more. Or less depending on actual numbers. It also depends on how many miners there are and how much of the overall hashrate is comprised of high power ASICs. If only 10% of the total hashrate (currently 15TH I think) comes from these ASICs, the differential in difficulty will not be a direct correlation to their individual hashing power, but as a percentage increase of total power on the network. 1.5TH would be about 500 A5 Dashmasters, if the batch is that size, so that's 10% of the network. Add another 750gh from an approximately comparable size Antminer D3 batch size since it's 1/2 as powerful. So that's 2.25TH of the total new network hash power total of 17.25TH on the network after the first batches of these new models goes online (unless the batches are MUCH larger, which seems unlikely). So what we're really looking at difficulty wise is a 14% increase in network hashrate give or take a couple percent, so I would expect a differential increase comparable to the increase in total net hash, rather than one directly correlated in a 1:1 ratio based on how much more powerful these particular devices are. There are also other factors to consider, such as miners leaving the network because the difficulty goes up too high for their profit margins to hold (vis a vis Ethereum), and that will reduce the overall network capacity, slowing the rate of difficulty increase for a while at least. Brilliant analysis.




picominer
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 8
Merit: 0


July 23, 2017, 03:13:16 AM 

It also depends on how many miners there are and how much of the overall hashrate is comprised of high power ASICs. If only 10% of the total hashrate (currently 15TH I think) comes from these ASICs, the differential in difficulty will not be a direct correlation to their individual hashing power, but as a percentage increase of total power on the network. 1.5TH would be about 500 A5 Dashmasters, if the batch is that size, so that's 10% of the network. Add another 750gh from an approximately comparable size Antminer D3 batch size since it's 1/2 as powerful. So that's 2.25TH of the total new network hash power total of 17.25TH on the network after the first batches of these new models goes online (unless the batches are MUCH larger, which seems unlikely). So what we're really looking at difficulty wise is a 14% increase in network hashrate give or take a couple percent, so I would expect a differential increase comparable to the increase in total net hash, rather than one directly correlated in a 1:1 ratio based on how much more powerful these particular devices are.
There are also other factors to consider, such as miners leaving the network because the difficulty goes up too high for their profit margins to hold (vis a vis Ethereum), and that will reduce the overall network capacity, slowing the rate of difficulty increase for a while at least.
500 A5 @30GH is equal to 15000MH (15TH). I think it's quite realistic to have the difficulty increase 510x by October.




TenaciousJ


July 23, 2017, 03:30:15 AM 

It also depends on how many miners there are and how much of the overall hashrate is comprised of high power ASICs. If only 10% of the total hashrate (currently 15TH I think) comes from these ASICs, the differential in difficulty will not be a direct correlation to their individual hashing power, but as a percentage increase of total power on the network. 1.5TH would be about 500 A5 Dashmasters, if the batch is that size, so that's 10% of the network. Add another 750gh from an approximately comparable size Antminer D3 batch size since it's 1/2 as powerful. So that's 2.25TH of the total new network hash power total of 17.25TH on the network after the first batches of these new models goes online (unless the batches are MUCH larger, which seems unlikely). So what we're really looking at difficulty wise is a 14% increase in network hashrate give or take a couple percent, so I would expect a differential increase comparable to the increase in total net hash, rather than one directly correlated in a 1:1 ratio based on how much more powerful these particular devices are.
There are also other factors to consider, such as miners leaving the network because the difficulty goes up too high for their profit margins to hold (vis a vis Ethereum), and that will reduce the overall network capacity, slowing the rate of difficulty increase for a while at least.
500 A5 @30GH is equal to 15000MH (15TH). I think it's quite realistic to have the difficulty increase 510x by October. Yeah, looks like my math got a little too fuzzy rushing through the numbers. Well, it seems like Dashmaster might be a Dashaster at a $10k price point =/ Are there any other X11 coins that are viable at this point that the A5 might be able to mine in the alternative?




woogod
Member
Offline
Activity: 93
Merit: 10


July 23, 2017, 04:25:15 AM 

Glad they brought the MOQ down, But being careful with the Dash miners now as so many companies are jumping on X11 mining game...
My only concern with the A5 like many other mentioned is the difference between final delivered hashrate per miner and what they initially advertised. Has anybody had experience with the A4s;
What is their policy around this kind of issues? When they advertise 30GH or 600mh for A4, and only deliver 280Mh or lower now for Dash  after full payments have been made by their customers. Is there a refund policy or something..? Clearly false advertising of this sort is very illegal imo




donationbox
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 18
Merit: 0


July 23, 2017, 04:33:39 AM 

Does anyone know what happened to network hashrate of DASH right after A4 and current X11 miners were released? Based on the change, can we expect how much of dumpage A5 or D3 will take in terms of profitability?




bitcoinexplorer


July 23, 2017, 04:44:02 AM 

Glad they brought the MOQ down, But being careful with the Dash miners now as so many companies are jumping on X11 mining game...
My only concern with the A5 like many other mentioned is the difference between final delivered hashrate per miner and what they initially advertised. Has anybody had experience with the A4s;
What is their policy around this kind of issues? When they advertise 30GH or 600mh for A4, and only deliver 280Mh or lower now for Dash  after full payments have been made by their customers. Is there a refund policy or something..? Clearly false advertising of this sort is very illegal imo
Exactly, the only way out is Innosillicon make announcement that if hash rate is lower or watt higher than advertised , in that case they will issue 50% refund.




TenaciousJ


July 23, 2017, 05:01:29 AM 

Does anyone know what happened to network hashrate of DASH right after A4 and current X11 miners were released? Based on the change, can we expect how much of dumpage A5 or D3 will take in terms of profitability?
A4 mines Litecoin rather than Dash... which is an incredibly misleading naming scheme. What to Mine lists profitability (taken with a large grain of salt as to how accurate this is) mining X11 with 385mh/s at $34 a day right now. A little over a year ago, the same hash rate was making $8.80 a day  so 50% drop in profitability from June 2016 to July 2017. In March 2016, presumably when the X11 miners came out but I don't have the date for certain, profitability for X11 was through the roof. This could mean that a similar trend will take place with these new miners, a short term spike in value until the difficulty normalizes and then a steady decline in returns over the following year. Or the time period could be much shorter.. hard to say without more data. http://cryptominingblog.com/tag/x11asicprofitability/




