Closed

[Eakamc2]

I have another question:
If I lose my key to my bitcoin wallet, it is impossible to recover those coins. What will happen if someone loses their key to a wallet that contains property tokens? If it's more than 10%, the property cannot ever be sold anymore because of the 90% threshold...

And how would you know if a 11% token holder lost his key, or is just being silent for a long time?

[Eakamc2]

One more...
In the Terms of token sale under 10 it says:

The Seller has valid, unrestricted and exclusive ownership of rights to use the patents, trademarks, trademark registrations, trade names, copyrights, know-how, technology and other intellectual property necessary to the conduct of selling of the ATL tokens and his activities generally. In no way shall these Terms entitle the Buyer for any intellectual property of the Seller. There are no implied licenses under these Terms, and any rights not expressly granted to the Buyer hereunder are reserved by the Seller.

So let's say that everything works fine and half of the worlds properties are sold via Atlant. Now the board decides that everything remains the same except from now on Atlant is not using ATL tokens anymore but a brand new token. Or they introduce a new token slowly to limit the shock. There is no legal way to stop them? The buyer only owns tokens, but Atlant decides if they are used or not.

[Skyio]

Propy is basically a cheap script, imitating Zillow or Trulia - it does not let you tokenize properties or purchase properties with cryptocurrency. Look at their video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQQLy11uhgs on time index 01:33. Don’t just focus on the fact that Steven Johnson is a US Citizen yet a Ukrainian National, look carefully at the domain name on the title bar. You will see that they bought a $500 off the shelf real estate script, and put their logos into it, and forgot to change the website when creating their video.

Are you accusing Propy of using Heroku? Why? And do you know what is Heroku?

From Wiki:

"Heroku is a cloud platform as a service (PaaS) supporting several programming languages that is used as a web application deployment model. Heroku, one of the first cloud platforms, has been in development since June 2007, when it supported only the Ruby programming language, but now supports Java, Node.js, Scala, Clojure, Python, PHP, and Go. For this reason, Heroku is said to be a polyglot platform as it lets the developer build, run and scale applications in a similar manner across all the languages."

[bigcash2011]

Well i think comparing all these projects is not good, all projects are unique, i personally like the projects that are taking real businesses like real estate to block chain, i think atlant, propy alongwith a few new ones like Real and relest will prove good projects for the industry.

[azmojo]

Management company, thus you can't pull this off. The role of the management company is similar to what is done right now in www.realtyshares.com or other similar schemes, except you can trade the underlying PTOs in a market.
 

Okay, but with 51% I can just get rid of them and get another MC that I alone like more?
What fee % will a MC take?

I don't think token holders will be voting on property management companies or who to rent to.
I would assume there's a trustee who hires the management company and is involved in making certain decisions, as well as putting other decision up for a vote.

[fdanconia]

We are not reinventing the wheel here, the only thing that we are doing is implementing a new holding and transfer structure through tokens and the exchange. Management companies have fiduciary responsibilities, and they will not violate the law blatantly. There are many other provisions put in place to prevent any sort of behavior which would be detrimental to the system. Regardless, think about it, if a house is a cash flow producing asset, and it's value is determined based upon projections of future cash flows, if a large tokenholder would try to do something that is detrimental to those cash flows, similar to companies on an exchange, other token holders would sell their tokens - this would be self detrimental/defeating.

I don't think that MC's will break the law. But there can be unwanted behavior without breaking the law. I'm not saying that this breaks the whole idea, but there needs to be other provisions put into place, like you say.

If I own 51% and the other 49% sell their tokens cheap because of my decisions, I would be able to buy the rest of the property very cheap! I think the comparison to a public company falls short for a large part. The company suffers long term (brand)damage and it could be self defeating, but the property holds its value.

As you correctly pointed out there are provisions which exist already without tokenization or blockchain, as there's plenty of real estate assets with partial ownership. Again, not reinventing the wheel here, just making it better with our system.

With respect to your second question about losing keys - it's the same as losing keys to a numbered account in a bank. It's possible but unlikely, and if it happens despite warnings about backing up, and giving copies to close relatives, c'est la vie. With respect to parts not being able to be sold, again, I would refer you to what happens without the blockchain. If you buy a part of a building and just disappear, it's not possible to sell in whole, but that does not mean that the rest of the owners will not receive their rental income, and can't resell their flats.

[fdanconia]

One more...
In the Terms of token sale under 10 it says:

The Seller has valid, unrestricted and exclusive ownership of rights to use the patents, trademarks, trademark registrations, trade names, copyrights, know-how, technology and other intellectual property necessary to the conduct of selling of the ATL tokens and his activities generally. In no way shall these Terms entitle the Buyer for any intellectual property of the Seller. There are no implied licenses under these Terms, and any rights not expressly granted to the Buyer hereunder are reserved by the Seller.

So let's say that everything works fine and half of the worlds properties are sold via Atlant. Now the board decides that everything remains the same except from now on Atlant is not using ATL tokens anymore but a brand new token. Or they introduce a new token slowly to limit the shock. There is no legal way to stop them? The buyer only owns tokens, but Atlant decides if they are used or not.

First, ATL token holders have no influence over PTOs what so ever. Also, the question you ask is akin to asking what would happen if BTC holders burned their tokens or USD holders burned their bills.

[fdanconia]

Propy is basically a cheap script, imitating Zillow or Trulia - it does not let you tokenize properties or purchase properties with cryptocurrency. Look at their video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQQLy11uhgs on time index 01:33. Don’t just focus on the fact that Steven Johnson is a US Citizen yet a Ukrainian National, look carefully at the domain name on the title bar. You will see that they bought a $500 off the shelf real estate script, and put their logos into it, and forgot to change the website when creating their video.

Are you accusing Propy of using Heroku? Why? And do you know what is Heroku?

From Wiki:

"Heroku is a cloud platform as a service (PaaS) supporting several programming languages that is used as a web application deployment model. Heroku, one of the first cloud platforms, has been in development since June 2007, when it supported only the Ruby programming language, but now supports Java, Node.js, Scala, Clojure, Python, PHP, and Go. For this reason, Heroku is said to be a polyglot platform as it lets the developer build, run and scale applications in a similar manner across all the languages."

Skyio, You registered your account at August 09, 2017, 07:13:49 PM and decided to make your first post here on August 09, 2017, 07:37:32 PM. While I should consider this as an honor, that inferior ICOs are trying to advertise themselves on our board, I ask you to refrain from doing this further. Just have fun and enjoy the sunny weather in California.

[Eakamc2]

With respect to your second question about losing keys - it's the same as losing keys to a numbered account in a bank. It's possible but unlikely, and if it happens despite warnings about backing up, and giving copies to close relatives, c'est la vie. With respect to parts not being able to be sold, again, I would refer you to what happens without the blockchain. If you buy a part of a building and just disappear, it's not possible to sell in whole, but that does not mean that the rest of the owners will not receive their rental income, and can't resell their flats.

If I lose my key to my bank account or my key to my bank vault, I can go to the bank, identify myself, fill out some paperwork, pay a fee, wait for a few days maybe and I have my belongings back. The bank keeps my personal information linked to my account / vault. If I disappear, my heirs will inherit my belongings.

Why would you refer a blockchain-idea to what happens without a blockchain? Isn't the whole idea of a blockchain that it is decentralized? There is no central entity that keeps track of who owns which token. And since the tokens are being traded in exchanges all over the world, there is no way to do that.

I totally agree that if you lose your key, it's your own stupid fault. But if it happens to >10% of the token holders it cripples the other 89%. It is a blockchained contract, right? So the rules cannot be changed anymore. And since there is no way of knowing who owns the 'missing' 11%, the other 89% can only receive rental incomes like you say. But they miss out if someone offers a huge amount for the whole building.

[Frogman]

Chinese ANN Tread
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2076278.0

[fdanconia]

With respect to your second question about losing keys - it's the same as losing keys to a numbered account in a bank. It's possible but unlikely, and if it happens despite warnings about backing up, and giving copies to close relatives, c'est la vie. With respect to parts not being able to be sold, again, I would refer you to what happens without the blockchain. If you buy a part of a building and just disappear, it's not possible to sell in whole, but that does not mean that the rest of the owners will not receive their rental income, and can't resell their flats.

If I lose my key to my bank account or my key to my bank vault, I can go to the bank, identify myself, fill out some paperwork, pay a fee, wait for a few days maybe and I have my belongings back. The bank keeps my personal information linked to my account / vault. If I disappear, my heirs will inherit my belongings.

Why would you refer a blockchain-idea to what happens without a blockchain? Isn't the whole idea of a blockchain that it is decentralized? There is no central entity that keeps track of who owns which token. And since the tokens are being traded in exchanges all over the world, there is no way to do that.

I totally agree that if you lose your key, it's your own stupid fault. But if it happens to >10% of the token holders it cripples the other 89%. It is a blockchained contract, right? So the rules cannot be changed anymore. And since there is no way of knowing who owns the 'missing' 11%, the other 89% can only receive rental incomes like you say. But they miss out if someone offers a huge amount for the whole building.

In a numbered bank account the name of the holder is not revealed, and the bank does not hold the name, rather access to the account is granted to the account holder via a code-word, which is similar scheme to that used in RSA cryptography. You're somewhat confusing distributed ledger with the word blockchain. All distributed ledgers do not have to necessarily employ a chain of blocks to successfully provide secure and valid achievement of distributed consensus, a blockchain is only one type of data structure considered to be a distributed ledger, where each block shares data with other blocks and forms a P2P network collectively adhering to a protocol for validating new blocks. Nonetheless, if you read our whitepaper (https://atlant.io/assets/documents/en/Atlant_WP_publish.pdf) carefully you will realize that we at ATLANT are building a completely distributed ledger without any centralized hurdles such as going to the authority upon every transaction which Propy does (which in essence is not changing the system, just slapping the word blockchain to make it sound fancy, and does not really fix the existing problems). ATLANT plans to initially trade PTOs on ADEX exchange based on Ethereum smart contracts, which should answer your second question. Per the last part, as already mentioned, we are not changing the status quo, in other words in an existing infrastructure, even without tokenization, if a fractional owner does not sell for long periods of time, 100% of the building can not be sold, however the remainder can be.

Eakamc2, I would like to commend you on so many great questions for a user who just joined bitcointalk yesterday and is so keen on ATLANT, that all 6 of of your posts appear on this thread. With this much thoughtfulness and enthusiasm, I would like to direct you to our bounty thread, where you can channel your energy and earn some ATL: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2053308

[Pollina]

 Blockchain ICO – ATLANT Will Potentially Crush Real Estate and Mortgage Industries As We Know Them:  an article  about ATLANT written by a volunteer   


http://zempafy.com/blockchain-ico-atlant-will-potentially-crush-real-estate-and-mortgage-industries-as-we-know-them/

[Pollina]

Meanwhile we have updated our Facebook  and Twitter campaign bounty lists. Please take a look

[Skyio]

Propy is basically a cheap script, imitating Zillow or Trulia - it does not let you tokenize properties or purchase properties with cryptocurrency. Look at their video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQQLy11uhgs on time index 01:33. Don’t just focus on the fact that Steven Johnson is a US Citizen yet a Ukrainian National, look carefully at the domain name on the title bar. You will see that they bought a $500 off the shelf real estate script, and put their logos into it, and forgot to change the website when creating their video.

Are you accusing Propy of using Heroku? Why? And do you know what is Heroku?

From Wiki:

"Heroku is a cloud platform as a service (PaaS) supporting several programming languages that is used as a web application deployment model. Heroku, one of the first cloud platforms, has been in development since June 2007, when it supported only the Ruby programming language, but now supports Java, Node.js, Scala, Clojure, Python, PHP, and Go. For this reason, Heroku is said to be a polyglot platform as it lets the developer build, run and scale applications in a similar manner across all the languages."

Skyio, You registered your account at August 09, 2017, 07:13:49 PM and decided to make your first post here on August 09, 2017, 07:37:32 PM. While I should consider this as an honor, that inferior ICOs are trying to advertise themselves on our board, I ask you to refrain from doing this further. Just have fun and enjoy the sunny weather in California.

Nice try, Sherlock, but you don't have enough evidence. Okay, let me help you. I'm a real estate developer and I'm thinking about investing in a blockchain RE project. I find this very interesting and just doing some research at the moment.
I asked you (ATLANT team) the question. Does that mean that you can't answer it?

[franc0]

A comparison chart between all RE projects is on its way.

[samantadegrenet]

i am very glad to be part of this wonderfull project!

[preevi]

2896 ETH raised till now it is a good sign more than half of target already reached
So happy can take part of this project wish the target funds will reached soon

[Frogman]

Signature campaign participants - please update your signatures per the 1st post in Bounty thread.

[fdanconia]

2896 ETH raised till now it is a good sign more than half of target already reached
So happy can take part of this project wish the target funds will reached soon

Thanks much

[deddod01]

Actually there are nice projects but there is a question about how realistic it is that I will be buying real estate from abroad to deal with the blockchain obviously our nation does not take bread from the hand.