Aug 1 summary

[Lauda]

Thanks Lauda.  This second response from you makes me feel a little more confident that we are not entering into a doom and gloom scenario (as I felt from your first response).

If we see a similar situation like we've seen in mid July, the fork will be used to manipulate the market and make it tank again (remember the low of $18xx) before spiking up again. If this plays out almost the same way, it is very clear that these people are playing the market and should be prosecuted.

Seems like the nutjob BIG blockers will employ their attempt at a segwit2x take-over fork (unless they snap into their senses, which does not seem too likely at the moment) and then the large majority of the bitcoin community will likely just ignore them and then the more technically advanced of the folks will figure out way to cash out their $100 segwit2x coins - even if it takes 50 confirmations, rather than 12... and then we (the real bitcoin) prepare for the next hardfork or whatever other desperate attempts at nonsense bitcoin network attacks the nutjobs decide to propagate.

If you have already forgotten, earlier this year exchanges have signed a document stating that they can't support a hard fork like this that does not have replay protection which SegWit2x does not. Meanwhile, look at what the Core developers have been doing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSRoEeqYtJA. Please watch the whole video. They are constantly fighting in order to keep reducing the IBD time, among other improvements (e.g. coming Signature aggregation, encrypted BTC network traffic, et. al.). Now when you factor that in, just think just how much Roger Ver is malevolent. He is the cancer of Bitcoin (along with BITMAIN).

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[JayJuanGee]

Seems like the nutjob BIG blockers will employ their attempt at a segwit2x take-over fork (unless they snap into their senses, which does not seem too likely at the moment) and then the large majority of the bitcoin community will likely just ignore them and then the more technically advanced of the folks will figure out way to cash out their $100 segwit2x coins - even if it takes 50 confirmations, rather than 12... and then we (the real bitcoin) prepare for the next hardfork or whatever other desperate attempts at nonsense bitcoin network attacks the nutjobs decide to propagate.

If you have already forgotten, earlier this year exchanges have signed a document stating that they can't support a hard fork like this that does not have replay protection which SegWit2x does not. Meanwhile, look at what the Core developers have been doing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSRoEeqYtJA. Please watch the whole video. They are constantly fighting in order to keep reducing the IBD time, among other improvements (e.g. coming Signature aggregation, encrypted BTC network traffic, et. al.). Now when you factor that in, just think just how much Roger Ver is malevolent. He is the cancer of Bitcoin (along with BITMAIN).

Thanks for the video link, Lauda.  I did watch it, and G.Maxwell certainly inspires a certain level of confidence and very informative, even though some of his technical nerdiness - hahahaha- goes over my head a bit.

Regarding the term IBD.. You are referring to initial block download, or something else?

I agree with you that there are various attack vectors in bitcoin, including Ver, Bitmain, craig wright and some of the various followings of these folks - but I suppose to some extent they are causing some work upon bitcoin and bitcoin core contributors that might well make bitcoin stronger and much more difficult to attack by some entity that may have better funding.. I am not sure.

As Greg pointed out towards the end of his presentation, he said that he is very happy about bitcoin's price and we do not necessarily want to rush price performance over strength of security and bitcoin fundamentals, so that is frequently what causes me further confidence with bitcoin core and that they do not seem inclined to give into terrorists, they work on some contingency plans, they seem not to get too excited about price, even though they recognize the value of price appreciation.  Surely, the BTC price is going to follow such a measured and secure approach, even if price does not seem to be principle focus points of core... and surely they may even be o.k with a certain level of price suppression that allows for additional developments of bitcoin before BIGGER attacks can take place.

[Lauda]

Thanks for the video link, Lauda.  I did watch it, and G.Maxwell certainly inspires a certain level of confidence and very informative, even though some of his technical nerdiness - hahahaha- goes over my head a bit.

The video was *relatively* simple with a few parts being excluded from this statement. Now go ahead and compare the BCH code (which was c/p Bitcoin Core - Segwit and some small changes). How many improvements have they made, Bitcoin Unlimited or Bitcoin Classic between the release of Bitcoin Core 0.14.0 and 0.15.0?

Regarding the term IBD.. You are referring to initial block download, or something else?

Correct, or put differently/simply "time till you synchronize".

I agree with you that there are various attack vectors in bitcoin, including Ver, Bitmain, craig wright and some of the various followings of these folks - but I suppose to some extent they are causing some work upon bitcoin and bitcoin core contributors that might well make bitcoin stronger and much more difficult to attack by some entity that may have better funding.. I am not sure.

If Bitcoin can not resist the attacks of these little paws, mostly fueled by a small amount of their own wealth and their ego, then Bitcoin and the idea behind it has failed. Attacks from larger entities are yet to come (excluding these covert users who have infiltrated both sides of the community).

As Greg pointed out towards the end of his presentation, he said that he is very happy about bitcoin's price and we do not necessarily want to rush price performance over strength of security and bitcoin fundamentals, so that is frequently what causes me further confidence with bitcoin core and that they do not seem inclined to give into terrorists, they work on some contingency plans, they seem not to get too excited about price, even though they recognize the value of price appreciation.  Surely, the BTC price is going to follow such a measured and secure approach, even if price does not seem to be principle focus points of core... and surely they may even be o.k with a certain level of price suppression that allows for additional developments of bitcoin before BIGGER attacks can take place.

Correct. You do not build digital gold by rushing for any change that *might* be beneficial to the price. Code/improvement wise Bitcoin resembles a technocracy and that's how it should be (although the whole consensus/governance model is much more complex / I am not referring to it as a whole). You don't let random people decide security measures when building a boat or ship, do you? There are a lot of things in the work, but they take time to build especially when you have an unprecedented code-review/quality in this industry as in Bitcoin Core.

[JayJuanGee]

As Greg pointed out towards the end of his presentation, he said that he is very happy about bitcoin's price and we do not necessarily want to rush price performance over strength of security and bitcoin fundamentals, so that is frequently what causes me further confidence with bitcoin core and that they do not seem inclined to give into terrorists, they work on some contingency plans, they seem not to get too excited about price, even though they recognize the value of price appreciation.  Surely, the BTC price is going to follow such a measured and secure approach, even if price does not seem to be principle focus points of core... and surely they may even be o.k with a certain level of price suppression that allows for additional developments of bitcoin before BIGGER attacks can take place.

Correct. You do not build digital gold by rushing for any change that *might* be beneficial to the price. Code/improvement wise Bitcoin resembles a technocracy and that's how it should be (although the whole consensus/governance model is much more complex / I am not referring to it as a whole). You don't let random people decide security measures when building a boat or ship, do you? There are a lot of things in the work, but they take time to build especially when you have an unprecedented code-review/quality in this industry as in Bitcoin Core.

Seems like we are getting far off topic, but these are still interesting points related to the august 1 forkening.

Like I indicated, when I listen to Greg, I experience a certain level of confidence of integrity and principles and his ability to identify nonsense, and that he is not bought out.. and it seems that there are several leaders in core of similar ilk - however, what happens if several of those leaders have health issues or something, then are there folks to take over that are not going to be compromised..... I am saying this because Greg says, "we" this and "we" that and he knows about a lot of the significant and important decisions that are being made.. so is there some vulnerabilities in his level of knowledge in the event that he and some other bitcoin core leaders can no longer participate or contribute that some how bitcoin could become more vulnerable to some of the possible nutjob randsom attempts?

[philipma1957]

Thanks Lauda.  This second response from you makes me feel a little more confident that we are not entering into a doom and gloom scenario (as I felt from your first response).

If we see a similar situation like we've seen in mid July, the fork will be used to manipulate the market and make it tank again (remember the low of $18xx) before spiking up again. If this plays out almost the same way, it is very clear that these people are playing the market and should be prosecuted.

Seems like the nutjob BIG blockers will employ their attempt at a segwit2x take-over fork (unless they snap into their senses, which does not seem too likely at the moment) and then the large majority of the bitcoin community will likely just ignore them and then the more technically advanced of the folks will figure out way to cash out their $100 segwit2x coins - even if it takes 50 confirmations, rather than 12... and then we (the real bitcoin) prepare for the next hardfork or whatever other desperate attempts at nonsense bitcoin network attacks the nutjobs decide to propagate.

If you have already forgotten, earlier this year exchanges have signed a document stating that they can't support a hard fork like this that does not have replay protection which SegWit2x does not. Meanwhile, look at what the Core developers have been doing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSRoEeqYtJA. Please watch the whole video. They are constantly fighting in order to keep reducing the IBD time, among other improvements (e.g. coming Signature aggregation, encrypted BTC network traffic, et. al.). Now when you factor that in, just think just how much Roger Ver is malevolent. He is the cancer of Bitcoin (along with BITMAIN).

Bitmain has shown that $$$ is all that matters to them.  They  will push at BTC  over and over again  to them any coin will do as long as they are making $$$.

IN a way I see part of their philosophy but it is a very dangerous  game to play. Hopefully BTC will hang in there.

But to see BTC difficulty last jump go down 28% in the first few days they raise back to + 3%  was very disturbing.   

To see hash rate drop from 6600p  to 4100p for BTC  and for BCC to jump from 500p to 3700p  was very disturbing .

To see how bitmain has lifted LTC back to a good coin  vs a shit coin is very disturbing.

They simply have a lot of power and are the biggest danger to asic coins on the planet.

I now have 15,000 worth of gpus in non asic coins simply because bitmain has so much asic muscle.

[Lauda]

Seems like we are getting far off topic, but these are still interesting points related to the august 1 forkening.

I intentionally avoided continuing our mini discussion due to this.

..so is there some vulnerabilities in his level of knowledge in the event that he and some other bitcoin core leaders can no longer participate or contribute that some how bitcoin could become more vulnerable to some of the possible nutjob randsom attempts?

This is why new people are always welcome and they help in educating them on the development process and Bitcoin in general. The more of them there are, the better.

Bitmain has shown that $$$ is all that matters to them.  They  will push at BTC  over and over again  to them any coin will do as long as they are making $$$.

Bitmain, Ver and Bitpay are essentially the cancer of Bitcoin. They stand for things that are completely the opposite of what Bitcoin was built for.

Hopefully BTC will hang in there.

If we can't resist Bitmain, then we've essentially failed.

I now have 15,000 worth of gpus in non asic coins simply because bitmain has so much asic muscle.

Initially I've read that as 15 000 GPUs.

[Nichols3018]

 The major holder of bitcoin im sure they are glad now bitcoin cash came along if they werent before. Great gain of profit for a airdrop

[JayJuanGee]

The major holder of bitcoin im sure they are glad now bitcoin cash came along if they werent before. Great gain of profit for a airdrop

Even if, as a bitcoin holder, you are able to profit anywhere between 6% and 20% by cashing out your Bcash, that does not mean that you are glad bcash happened.

Bcash is what it is, and sure, we take some profits, and cannot put the genie back in the bottle, but that does not mean that bcash was a good thing for bitcoin or that bitcoin holders are glad that it happened.

On the contrary, it seems that a large number of bitcoin holders are glad to profit from the bcash, but they are not really that excited about bcash because it seems to be an ongoing attack on bitcoin rather than truly something that was a genuine play or needed.  However, now that bcash is there, you would think that it would be a decent vehicle for bigblockers to develop their ideas and their coin philosophies, which they are not satisfied but instead want to just keep attempting to attack bitcoin with further unnecessary forks.  So, yeah it is a bunch of bullshit - but there seem to have been ways to attempt to profit off of the bullshit, if you are a bitcoin holder... and likely will be additional ways in the future.. because likely bitcoin is going to be the winner in these various scattered ass attack plays that are likely to attempt to get stronger in the future.

[Lauda]

Even if, as a bitcoin holder, you are able to profit anywhere between 6% and 20% by cashing out your Bcash, that does not mean that you are glad bcash happened. Bcash is what it is, and sure, we take some profits, and cannot put the genie back in the bottle, but that does not mean that bcash was a good thing for bitcoin or that bitcoin holders are glad that it happened.

I'm going to state that it's mostly Bitcoiners (or general crypto holders) who have a generally low education/knowledge regarding the technology and Bitcoin itself that are happy that this happened. Not everything is about money, and Bcash has definitely had a negative impact on the image of Bitcoin. They have demonstrated another type of attack on Bitcoin which we have not really seen in the past.

On the contrary, it seems that a large number of bitcoin holders are glad to profit from the bcash, but they are not really that excited about bcash because it seems to be an ongoing attack on bitcoin rather than truly something that was a genuine play or needed. 

Large number of educated holders*; otherwise the number is rather small. Most of the traders have limited knowledge, as said above, and mostly care about profit. Replay attacks, wipeout protection are equivalent to the Night King from GoT for them.

[RoomBot]

Dead Cat Bounce 2.0

[fanou1988]

How about how to upload a video in this forum???

[Gimpeline]

How about how to upload a video in this forum???

You can't

[RoomBot]

How about how to upload a video in this forum???

You can upload images, GIFs & Flash files... when you're here long enough.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=help;page=post

[LFC_Bitcoin]

Still kind of nervous about redeeming my BCH but I really want to as it's kind of a lot of money that I could do with. Obviously I've read theymos' instructions on page 1. Without reading through all the other pages, has anything changed or is there a better method to claim my BCH. I'm strongly thinking about claiming my BCH this week.

[Lauda]

Still kind of nervous about redeeming my BCH

Why? Plenty of people have done it.

but I really want to as it's kind of a lot of money that I could do with. Obviously I've read theymos' instructions on page 1. Without reading through all the other pages, has anything changed or is there a better method to claim my BCH. I'm strongly thinking about claiming my BCH this week.

Not really, no. Just move your BTC to a new address. Import the old private key into a BCH wallet, and done. Nothing can really go wrong unless your system is compromised already (whilst moving BTC).

[LFC_Bitcoin]

Still kind of nervous about redeeming my BCH

Why? Plenty of people have done it.

but I really want to as it's kind of a lot of money that I could do with. Obviously I've read theymos' instructions on page 1. Without reading through all the other pages, has anything changed or is there a better method to claim my BCH. I'm strongly thinking about claiming my BCH this week.

Not really, no. Just move your BTC to a new address. Import the old private key into a BCH wallet, and done. Nothing can really go wrong unless your system is compromised already (whilst moving BTC).

Pretty certain my computer is clean, I dunno I'm not hugely tech gifted & whilst pretty close to 100% confident I am able to do it I can't help but feel nervous about it. I am going to do it this week though, fuck it.

Would you advise buying a new laptop to download the BCH wallet onto? I don't care about the cost as the BCH will easily cover that plus a lot more. I just want to be 100% safe.

[Thirdspace]

Still kind of nervous about redeeming my BCH

Why? Plenty of people have done it.

but I really want to as it's kind of a lot of money that I could do with. Obviously I've read theymos' instructions on page 1. Without reading through all the other pages, has anything changed or is there a better method to claim my BCH. I'm strongly thinking about claiming my BCH this week.

Not really, no. Just move your BTC to a new address. Import the old private key into a BCH wallet, and done. Nothing can really go wrong unless your system is compromised already (whilst moving BTC).

Pretty certain my computer is clean, I dunno I'm not hugely tech gifted & whilst pretty close to 100% confident I am able to do it I can't help but feel nervous about it. I am going to do it this week though, fuck it.

Would you advise buying a new laptop to download the BCH wallet onto? I don't care about the cost as the BCH will easily cover that plus a lot more. I just want to be 100% safe.

like you, LFC_Bitcoin, I also reluctantly (still not yet) redeeming BCH
if you simply just want to redeem and sell BCH with no intentions of holding
I would say just find a js tx tool, preferably downloadable page, that can work with BCH
so you could just open on incognito tab, create a signed raw transaction with
your exchanger deposit address as receiving address, then push it on BCH network

recently I've been reading about coinb.in, he's reviewing/testing pull request on BCH
though I didn't see it implemented on coinb latest version
so I'm still looking around for a similar working (trusted) project

[Lauda]

Pretty certain my computer is clean, I dunno I'm not hugely tech gifted & whilst pretty close to 100% confident I am able to do it I can't help but feel nervous about it. I am going to do it this week though, fuck it.

Being emotional about these things is irrational, and this will lead to mistakes in the future that may have grave consequences for your holdings. If you can't fully, and safely differentiate between completely safe actions/procedures and potentially unsafe one, then that is a cause for concern.

Would you advise buying a new laptop to download the BCH wallet onto? I don't care about the cost as the BCH will easily cover that plus a lot more. I just want to be 100% safe.

No. Use a VM and install Bitcoin ABC if you don't have a spare system to temporarily format.

[Bitbobb]

did not work with electrum cash for me so far... what am I doing wrong?

If my compromised machine is used to steal my bch then would not the bch block explorer be able show us exactly when my funds are stolen?  And to where???  That alone would be interesting..

   In the alternative I am still trying to find out what I am doing wrong..any suggestions welcome. 

Here is what I 've done so far:
1 Sent bitcoins to new wallet with new seed for safety;
2 downloaded electron cash onto newly formatted and separate computer
3 imported old now empty multibitHD seed into electrum cash
4 I tried both BIP39 and BIP145 with BIP39
5  ..using both m'/44'/0'/0'/  & m'/145'/0'/0'/  (not sure which is correct)
4 wallet creates itself with no transactions showings and zero balance in all instances.

Please help.   

I am now going to try bitcoin abc..

as a last resort  I can go back into multibitHD and modify it to dump the keys if the empty old private keys will work to open bch? 

[Lauda]

If my compromised machine is used to steal my bch then would not the bch block explorer be able show us exactly when my funds are stolen?  And to where???  That alone would be interesting..

Obviously? That is most often not useful though.

3 imported old now empty multibitHD seed into electrum cash
4 I tried both BIP39 and BIP145 with BIP39
5  ..using both m'/44'/0'/0'/  & m'/145'/0'/0'/  (not sure which is correct)

There's your mistake. If the seed implementation isn't compatible, or you specify the wrong derivation path, you will get completely different addresses. Here is the solution that you're looking for:

Or you have to manually or otherwise extract the private keys from your MultiBit HD wallet/seed...

Automated (but technical) method requiring use of python scripts: https://github.com/HardCorePawn/multibit_recovery

Manual method:
- Create offline version of https://iancoleman.github.io/bip39/
- Put in your MultiBit HD seed
- Set Derivation Path -> BIP32
- Set Client = "MultiBit HD"
- Copy all the address/private keys (click show more until you are sure you have more than all the addresses you ever used)
- Set Client = "Custom" -> Set Derivation Path = m/0'/1
- Copy all the change addresses/private keys (click show more until you are sure you have more than all the addresses you ever used)



Once you have all your private keys:
- In Electrum -> New/Restore -> Standard Wallet -> Create a new seed
- Once wallet is created, "Wallet -> Private Keys -> Sweep"
- Paste in all the private keys you got from automated or manual method

You should now have all your coins in an Electrum HD Wallet.

as a last resort  I can go back into multibitHD and modify it to dump the keys if the empty old private keys will work to open bch?  

Yes, you can dump priv keys and import into Bitcoin ABC. Opening multibitHD is no longer needed, you can use a tool (as described above).