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[Stunna]

it has been amazing to see that bettors on both sides of the market have been telling us they are satisfied with our decision.

You see, players really are easy to please.  All you gotta do is expose yourself to getting free rolled.

Only time will tell if this was the easy or the hard decision 

[cwil]

This is our biggest market ever on stake, the risk for us is in the millions so it definitely sparked a debate internally. Our odds provider is not settling it until next year and we couldn't hold user funds till feb or prematurely say that trump had lost just because the media has called the race. We did however create a set of criteria for what a trump win would constitute in case Trump plots a coup . We tried to hit the right balance here and it has been amazing to see that bettors on both sides of the market have been telling us they are satisfied with our decision.

The criteria listed is as follows:

Given that we are taking bets on the result of the election a winning Trump bet will only be possible if certain criteria are satisfied. All of the following would need to occur:

1. Voter fraud is proven
2. Votes are recast
3. Trump receives 270+ electoral college votes
4. Biden concedes

Problems with this criteria were brought up previously in this thread but not addressed.

1. Voter fraud is "likely to be found" according to some authorities, but the Trump campaign, the US DOJ, and Republican legislatures seem to be focusing on election fraud. That is systematic fraud conducted by the State rather than individual voters.
2. This is ambiguous. I do not believe this is referring to the selection of electors by the state or the voted conducted by the electoral college, as neither event has happened yet. This is probably talking about votes cast by the people. If so, to my knowledge, this has never happened in a US Presidential election. Votes are invalidated every year for many reasons. It seems likely that if the Trump campaign and GOP efforts are successful, then certain votes will be invalidated with no chance to be recast.
4. There is no requirement for a losing presidential candidate to secede in a US Presidential election.

The only decisive point in determining this contest is #3. I understand that sportsbooks need the ability to exercise discretion in cases where the results of a contest are contentious, but that discretion should be applied fairly and uniformly. Stake is paying out Biden bets on the basis that the electoral college will elect him. That should be the only criteria necessary to pay out Trump bets.

Note that I have no wager on this contest with this sportsbook. I'm just a little surprised to see this from Stake.

[xxjumperxx]

The only decisive point in determining this contest is #3. I understand that sportsbooks need the ability to exercise discretion in cases where the results of a contest are contentious, but that discretion should be applied fairly and uniformly. Stake is paying out Biden bets on the basis that the electoral college will elect him. That should be the only criteria necessary to pay out Trump bets.

Note that I have no wager on this contest with this sportsbook. I'm just a little surprised to see this from Stake.

It should be the only one that counts.

The bet that was made was : the next President of the United States of America

So if Donald Trump gets his 270 Electoral Votes and becomes the next President, the Trump Bets should be paid out.

[DarkStar_]

The only decisive point in determining this contest is #3. I understand that sportsbooks need the ability to exercise discretion in cases where the results of a contest are contentious, but that discretion should be applied fairly and uniformly. Stake is paying out Biden bets on the basis that the electoral college will elect him. That should be the only criteria necessary to pay out Trump bets.

Note that I have no wager on this contest with this sportsbook. I'm just a little surprised to see this from Stake.

It should be the only one that counts.

The bet that was made was : the next President of the United States of America

So if Donald Trump gets his 270 Electoral Votes and becomes the next President, the Trump Bets should be paid out.

All markets that I've seen grade on the expected result of the Electoral College, and not the actual result. In the event of a faithless elector(s) causing a different president to be elected, sportsbooks would still grade the "real" winner as such.

It's definitely very interesting that Stake is grading a possible Trump win differently than the original bet. It opens them up to additional risk, such as a projected Biden win that ends up electing Trump via faithless elector(s). A normal Trump bet would not be graded as a win under those circumstances.

4. There is no requirement for a losing presidential candidate to secede in a US Presidential election.

I think the meaning behind this is that they would expect Biden to not challenge the result similar to what Trump is doing now.

[cwil]

I think the meaning behind this is that they would expect Biden to not challenge the result similar to what Trump is doing now.

That's exactly the problem then, isn't it? Stake is willing to pay out a Biden bet despite a dispute from Trump, but perhaps wouldn't pay out a Trump bet if there was a dispute from Biden per that interpretation.

[Haunebu]

1. Voter fraud is "likely to be found" according to some authorities, but the Trump campaign, the US DOJ, and Republican legislatures seem to be focusing on election fraud. That is systematic fraud conducted by the State rather than individual voters.

This is literally what happened when Trump won against Clinton in 2016 despite losing the popular vote against her. Many people alleged fraud and even tried impeaching him, but nothing changed. Trump remained the President.

The same thing is repeating again now. No matter how much Trump and his supporters whine saying fraud, media bias etc, the result won't change. Biden is the 46th POTUS and that is the reality.

[xxjumperxx]

...
The same thing is repeating again now. No matter how much Trump and his supporters whine saying fraud, media bias etc, the result won't change. Biden is the 46th POTUS and that is the reality.

Because the Media said so? 

Dude, he is NOT the president yet, no matter how many times you watch mainstream media. 

[Taskford]

1. Voter fraud is "likely to be found" according to some authorities, but the Trump campaign, the US DOJ, and Republican legislatures seem to be focusing on election fraud. That is systematic fraud conducted by the State rather than individual voters.

This is literally what happened when Trump won against Clinton in 2016 despite losing the popular vote against her. Many people alleged fraud and even tried impeaching him, but nothing changed. Trump remained the President.

The same thing is repeating again now. No matter how much Trump and his supporters whine saying fraud, media bias etc, the result won't change. Biden is the 46th POTUS and that is the reality.

He can't accept his defeat and protesting is just a excuse since he claims so early that he will win no matter what it takes but look what happen now he eat his word and Biden already won and this decision for sure will never change since the people already give their verdict as well many people celebrate the bidens's victory  now.

[NotATether]

you should listen to official sources not fake news,  check real clear politics to pick the news directly from electoral committees https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ , "interpretation" of MSNBC, CNN and other establishment media doesn't have to say who wins the election,
~snip

And neither is realclearpolitics an official source or has a say in who wins the election either, only the Justice Department committee working on the election fraud case can say that.

Why are some people who bet on Trump expecting to be paid out at each market whether it’s a win or a loss? According to Stake’s criteria the only way you can hope for a payout is if he somehow gets 270 electoral votes, which can only happen by vote invalidation. Otherwise, a loss is a loss and you should just accept it and move on.

[BTCGOLD]

Biden Early Payout means Cashout I think?

[tbterryboy]

I think the meaning behind this is that they would expect Biden to not challenge the result similar to what Trump is doing now.

That's exactly the problem then, isn't it? Stake is willing to pay out a Biden bet despite a dispute from Trump, but perhaps wouldn't pay out a Trump bet if there was a dispute from Biden per that interpretation.

I doubt that you will face any problem at all aside from the fact that your provider will pay you in February (from your own account ) while you are paying right now, that is the only thing that you are going to miss out, few months of not getting paid for something you should be getting paid for and that's it.

We have seen tens of cases Trump campaign has already getting rejected, they have ZERO proof that anything could go own their way, people keep claiming "let's wait for the courts!" but the reality is, courts are not even accepting his plea, so at the end of the day we do not even have to wait for Trump to win any court case because those cases are not even being heard let alone get a decision in the end. So, Biden win is 100% guaranteed at this point, only thing stake loses right now would be not getting paid for few months.

[cwil]

I think the meaning behind this is that they would expect Biden to not challenge the result similar to what Trump is doing now.

That's exactly the problem then, isn't it? Stake is willing to pay out a Biden bet despite a dispute from Trump, but perhaps wouldn't pay out a Trump bet if there was a dispute from Biden per that interpretation.

I doubt that you will face any problem at all aside from the fact that your provider will pay you in February (from your own account ) while you are paying right now, that is the only thing that you are going to miss out, few months of not getting paid for something you should be getting paid for and that's it.

We have seen tens of cases Trump campaign has already getting rejected, they have ZERO proof that anything could go own their way, people keep claiming "let's wait for the courts!" but the reality is, courts are not even accepting his plea, so at the end of the day we do not even have to wait for Trump to win any court case because those cases are not even being heard let alone get a decision in the end. So, Biden win is 100% guaranteed at this point, only thing stake loses right now would be not getting paid for few months.

I am not arguing the merits of any party's dispute in the current presidential election.

I believe that the language used in Stake's statement regarding the payment of winning Trump bets is ambiguous at best and deceptive at worst. They've laid out 4 criteria that must be met, this was changed after the bet was placed, and winning Biden bets were not subject to similar criteria. It would be wise for Stake to clarify their position.

[Symphonized]

Win a soccer bet on a 10x or higher multiplier this week to go in the draw to win a share in our massive $1000 forum prizepool this week ⚽



Can you hit a 'Tenner'?

Giveaway's Topic: https://forum.stake.com/topic/38553-%E2%80%8B1000-tenner-sports-challenge/



One hour from now.....

https://twitter.com/Stake/status/1326781845384663042

[DarkStar_]

Stake.com did not personally pay out anything.

This was at most a mistake in the programming of the smart contract/oracles behind it...

Why would a centralized sports betting platform use smart contracts/oracles to settle sports bets? Why would only Stake (and Sportsbet.io) settle and not all sportsbooks using the same provider if said provider did hypothetically use smart contracts/oracles?

[TwitchySeal]

This is our biggest market ever on stake, the risk for us is in the millions so it definitely sparked a debate internally. Our odds provider is not settling it until next year and we couldn't hold user funds till feb or prematurely say that trump had lost just because the media has called the race. We did however create a set of criteria for what a trump win would constitute in case Trump plots a coup . We tried to hit the right balance here and it has been amazing to see that bettors on both sides of the market have been telling us they are satisfied with our decision.

The criteria listed is as follows:

Given that we are taking bets on the result of the election a winning Trump bet will only be possible if certain criteria are satisfied. All of the following would need to occur:

1. Voter fraud is proven
2. Votes are recast
3. Trump receives 270+ electoral college votes
4. Biden concedes

Problems with this criteria were brought up previously in this thread but not addressed.

1. Voter fraud is "likely to be found" according to some authorities, but the Trump campaign, the US DOJ, and Republican legislatures seem to be focusing on election fraud. That is systematic fraud conducted by the State rather than individual voters.
2. This is ambiguous. I do not believe this is referring to the selection of electors by the state or the voted conducted by the electoral college, as neither event has happened yet. This is probably talking about votes cast by the people. If so, to my knowledge, this has never happened in a US Presidential election. Votes are invalidated every year for many reasons. It seems likely that if the Trump campaign and GOP efforts are successful, then certain votes will be invalidated with no chance to be recast.
4. There is no requirement for a losing presidential candidate to secede in a US Presidential election.

The only decisive point in determining this contest is #3. I understand that sportsbooks need the ability to exercise discretion in cases where the results of a contest are contentious, but that discretion should be applied fairly and uniformly. Stake is paying out Biden bets on the basis that the electoral college will elect him. That should be the only criteria necessary to pay out Trump bets.

Note that I have no wager on this contest with this sportsbook. I'm just a little surprised to see this from Stake.

I agree.

You're opening yourself up to an even bigger headache with these stipulations.

#3 is all you need

in 2016, the allegations were pressed by dems after the official result was promulgated, they questioned the election integrity later.

In 2016 the media declared Trump the projected winner and Clinton conceded almost immediately.  That's completely different than the House exercising the constitutional right to impeach.
The only accusations against the integrity of the actual election were made by Trump when he claimed without any evidence whatsoever that over 3 million votes were cast illegally and therefor he actually won the popular vote, despites losing it by 3 million votes in the real world.  Sound familiar?  It gets better.  He then went on to form a committee to investigate this voter fraud.  They found basically nothing.

This year, bad things are happening and they don't cooperate to see if there isintegrity or not,

No partisans need to cooperate to see if there's integrity or not, in fact it would only make it worse if they did.  There are election officials and procedures already in place and there's a judicial branch to determine if the law was broken and how to remedy the situation if so.

[Stunna]

This is our biggest market ever on stake, the risk for us is in the millions so it definitely sparked a debate internally. Our odds provider is not settling it until next year and we couldn't hold user funds till feb or prematurely say that trump had lost just because the media has called the race. We did however create a set of criteria for what a trump win would constitute in case Trump plots a coup . We tried to hit the right balance here and it has been amazing to see that bettors on both sides of the market have been telling us they are satisfied with our decision.

The criteria listed is as follows:

Given that we are taking bets on the result of the election a winning Trump bet will only be possible if certain criteria are satisfied. All of the following would need to occur:

1. Voter fraud is proven
2. Votes are recast
3. Trump receives 270+ electoral college votes
4. Biden concedes

Problems with this criteria were brought up previously in this thread but not addressed.

1. Voter fraud is "likely to be found" according to some authorities, but the Trump campaign, the US DOJ, and Republican legislatures seem to be focusing on election fraud. That is systematic fraud conducted by the State rather than individual voters.
2. This is ambiguous. I do not believe this is referring to the selection of electors by the state or the voted conducted by the electoral college, as neither event has happened yet. This is probably talking about votes cast by the people. If so, to my knowledge, this has never happened in a US Presidential election. Votes are invalidated every year for many reasons. It seems likely that if the Trump campaign and GOP efforts are successful, then certain votes will be invalidated with no chance to be recast.
4. There is no requirement for a losing presidential candidate to secede in a US Presidential election.

The only decisive point in determining this contest is #3. I understand that sportsbooks need the ability to exercise discretion in cases where the results of a contest are contentious, but that discretion should be applied fairly and uniformly. Stake is paying out Biden bets on the basis that the electoral college will elect him. That should be the only criteria necessary to pay out Trump bets.

Note that I have no wager on this contest with this sportsbook. I'm just a little surprised to see this from Stake.

I agree.

You're opening yourself up to an even bigger headache with these stipulations.

#3 is all you need

in 2016, the allegations were pressed by dems after the official result was promulgated, they questioned the election integrity later.

In 2016 the media declared Trump the projected winner and Clinton conceded almost immediately.  That's completely different than the House exercising the constitutional right to impeach.

This year, bad things are happening and they don't cooperate to see if there isintegrity or not,

No partisans need to cooperate to see if there's integrity or not, in fact it would only make it worse if they did.  There are election officials and procedures already in place and there's a judicial branch to determine if the law was broken and how to remedy the situation if so.

Yeah I agree the language is not ideal, and for example voter fraud does not need to be proven for it to be a Trump win. Originally the post said that an example scenario would look something like this and it was edited by our sports team to say "all of the following" to basically give them a right of refusal over some weird situations that could arise. We will discuss internally and see if we can loosen it up a bit. As I mentioned towards the end we would be using "logic and reasonability" to determine the outcome so I could not imagine a scenario where trump won electoral college and we wouldn't pay out. That being said in my opinion it is hyper unlikely that trump will hit 270 electoral college votes without a re-vote or something major happening but stranger things have happened.

UPDATE: I am happy to say that I have had a chat with the team and we removed the voter fraud/revote aspects of the terms and conditions to make it more straight forward. All of that pretty much went without saying though we would have paid out regardless. https://news.stake.com/us-election-2020-statement/

[NotATether]

Stake.com did not personally pay out anything.

This was at most a mistake in the programming of the smart contract/oracles behind it...

Well they did, I’m one of the people who got my early payout. Others can confirm, and even Stunna mentioned something about paying out the bets from their pockets a few days ago.

[xPPx]

My Biden bets were paid out a few days ago. My Trump hedges are still pending...

[numanoid]

Biden Early Payout means Cashout I think?

It's for those who bet on biden, they have received their payout though. I also think it should be ok since the result is likely biden would be "certainly" won

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/

[ultrloa]

Biden Early Payout means Cashout I think?

It's for those who bet on biden, they have received their payout though. I also think it should be ok since the result is likely biden would be "certainly" won

It's ok there's no question regarding on that since for sure the final result is Biden wins and the only thing make the situation crazy is trump cannot accept his defeat, and for sure whatever he do he cannot change the decision so for sure this issue will be gone in next following days and good thing for stake for doing a good action since it makes the bettor happy to receive their winnings.