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Author Topic: GRAFT - Universal Payment Processing Network  (Read 84066 times)
GHminer98761
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February 11, 2018, 12:05:28 AM
 #541

I like the ideas behind this project, and the efforts that have gone into it by the founders, and their credentials too (if you look at the team page and google their names).  However, I have the following doubts:

(1)  The name GRAFT is terrible, because in the US this is a colloquial term referring to insider embezzlement or corruption.  A glance at Merriam Webster will reveal this, or a search of headlines with the term 'graft' in the New York Times - the vast majority of the articles that come up have to do with corruption.  It strikes me that the founders of this coin are not native American English speakers (the term does not have this meaning in British English, where it means 'hard work', the opposite) and simply did not know this.  But for wide acceptance, there is no denying that the name is a major blunder.

(2)  The supernode system for fast approval of payments sounds like a good solution (and a solution is certainly needed) but how is it protected from hacking and defrauding?  Payments are approved outside the blockchain, which is the only mechanism guaranteed to be fraud-proof (the whole point of its existence).  So how is payment security outside the blockchain going to be implemented?  There is no information about this that I can find in the white paper or on the website.

(3)  I don't understand the business model going forward for point-of-sale.  Either the idea is (a) to partner with existing POS providers, such as Visa and Mastercard, or (b) create a new POS network.  Option (a) is a non-starter; existing providers will not partner with Graft for obvious reasons.  First of all, the whole idea of the coin is to subvert the existing system, and existing providers will obviously regard it as a direct threat to their existence.  Second, there is the whole privacy and untraceability aspect; while we as consumers may like and want this, existing POS providers will not accept a payments system where they can garner no information about payee identities, amounts, track payments, etc.  Apart from security and money laundering issues, it goes counter to the whole direction of their business model, which is to track users and predict their spending habits, etc.  This leaves (b), which means founding a whole new POS network, with new hardware, and getting businesses to accept this.  This requires a MAJOR investment and planning, and is a HUGE undertaking.  Is there any evidence that the Graft team is prepared for this, and/or is capable of it?  Apart from requiring huge investment up front in terms of the network hardware, it also requires getting merchants to sign on the dotted line, and the only way to do this (initially) would be to offer them the terminals for free, which implies even more investment.  How much is this all going to cost?  What is the plan?  Is there even a chance that any merchants would sign up?

(4) Even if (3) can be surmounted, there is the regulatory issue.  Given that merchants would need to sign up to this, how can Graft be guaranteed to be consistent with local regulations in the areas in which it is proposed to operate?  Especially given the money laundering issues having to do with choosing a blockchain whose major feature is obfuscation of transactions and fungibility?  I can see major problems here.

Until there is some sort of answer from the team on all of the above points, I won't be investing in this.

the Graft name is wonderful who cares if you don't like it ? they explain it in the Dubai conference video by the second guy in charge Idkis something (sorry I know I am butchering his name) and they explain it in the white paper.. get over the name.  now here's the meat of the matter and why I am writing this:  adoption for something like this is a HUGE deal you're right !! so knowing what I think I know about payment processing I believe the trick lies in the MSO's which are the middle men or marketing and sales organizations. They drive adoption by getting merchants to accept new ideas and technology (BIGGEST question is what is their incentive) ?

although I am a huge fan of a Crypto POS gateway for the masses (like Pundix in Asia) I wonder how the specifics might work or what will drive some of the small chains (because that's who they would go after initially) to adopt a free crypto terminal that claims to be a Universal Payment Processing Network ?  yo have to go after the smaller chains because SMO's can't afford to go after mom & Pop at first and they can't convince burger king either for a long while.. so how will this work ? Pundi pundi has a nice high tech terminal without an MCR I think it uses NFC to communicate to their card. They raised their ICO goal without much struggle but they promoted nicely with some Youtubers like Ian Malina and such (which cost them a bunch I am sure).

so although I am a big believer in the tech and can see how consumers will be alright by slowly accepting crypto as a medium (unfortunately VISA is needed for most to begin with) HOW will they or WE get the merchants to adopt and learn something more complicated ? free terminals is not enough.. online merchants have a huge advantage and would probably be first adopters of a new crypto payment processor like GRAFT but they will also take Litecoin and others so please explain to me or give me the plan of action for driving Merchants to sign up ?


Nice post Smiley
Go GRAFT to the moooooon Cool
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February 11, 2018, 12:13:45 AM
 #542

I like the ideas behind this project, and the efforts that have gone into it by the founders, and their credentials too (if you look at the team page and google their names).  However, I have the following doubts:

(1)  The name GRAFT is terrible, because in the US this is a colloquial term referring to insider embezzlement or corruption.  A glance at Merriam Webster will reveal this, or a search of headlines with the term 'graft' in the New York Times - the vast majority of the articles that come up have to do with corruption.  It strikes me that the founders of this coin are not native American English speakers (the term does not have this meaning in British English, where it means 'hard work', the opposite) and simply did not know this.  But for wide acceptance, there is no denying that the name is a major blunder.

(2)  The supernode system for fast approval of payments sounds like a good solution (and a solution is certainly needed) but how is it protected from hacking and defrauding?  Payments are approved outside the blockchain, which is the only mechanism guaranteed to be fraud-proof (the whole point of its existence).  So how is payment security outside the blockchain going to be implemented?  There is no information about this that I can find in the white paper or on the website.

(3)  I don't understand the business model going forward for point-of-sale.  Either the idea is (a) to partner with existing POS providers, such as Visa and Mastercard, or (b) create a new POS network.  Option (a) is a non-starter; existing providers will not partner with Graft for obvious reasons.  First of all, the whole idea of the coin is to subvert the existing system, and existing providers will obviously regard it as a direct threat to their existence.  Second, there is the whole privacy and untraceability aspect; while we as consumers may like and want this, existing POS providers will not accept a payments system where they can garner no information about payee identities, amounts, track payments, etc.  Apart from security and money laundering issues, it goes counter to the whole direction of their business model, which is to track users and predict their spending habits, etc.  This leaves (b), which means founding a whole new POS network, with new hardware, and getting businesses to accept this.  This requires a MAJOR investment and planning, and is a HUGE undertaking.  Is there any evidence that the Graft team is prepared for this, and/or is capable of it?  Apart from requiring huge investment up front in terms of the network hardware, it also requires getting merchants to sign on the dotted line, and the only way to do this (initially) would be to offer them the terminals for free, which implies even more investment.  How much is this all going to cost?  What is the plan?  Is there even a chance that any merchants would sign up?

(4) Even if (3) can be surmounted, there is the regulatory issue.  Given that merchants would need to sign up to this, how can Graft be guaranteed to be consistent with local regulations in the areas in which it is proposed to operate?  Especially given the money laundering issues having to do with choosing a blockchain whose major feature is obfuscation of transactions and fungibility?  I can see major problems here.

Until there is some sort of answer from the team on all of the above points, I won't be investing in this.

the Graft name is wonderful who cares if you don't like it ? they explain it in the Dubai conference video by the second guy in charge Idkis something (sorry I know I am butchering his name) and they explain it in the white paper.. get over the name.  now here's the meat of the matter and why I am writing this:  adoption for something like this is a HUGE deal you're right !! so knowing what I think I know about payment processing I believe the trick lies in the MSO's which are the middle men or marketing and sales organizations. They drive adoption by getting merchants to accept new ideas and technology (BIGGEST question is what is their incentive) ?

although I am a huge fan of a Crypto POS gateway for the masses (like Pundix in Asia) I wonder how the specifics might work or what will drive some of the small chains (because that's who they would go after initially) to adopt a free crypto terminal that claims to be a Universal Payment Processing Network ?  yo have to go after the smaller chains because SMO's can't afford to go after mom & Pop at first and they can't convince burger king either for a long while.. so how will this work ? Pundi pundi has a nice high tech terminal without an MCR I think it uses NFC to communicate to their card. They raised their ICO goal without much struggle but they promoted nicely with some Youtubers like Ian Malina and such (which cost them a bunch I am sure).

so although I am a big believer in the tech and can see how consumers will be alright by slowly accepting crypto as a medium (unfortunately VISA is needed for most to begin with) HOW will they or WE get the merchants to adopt and learn something more complicated ? free terminals is not enough.. online merchants have a huge advantage and would probably be first adopters of a new crypto payment processor like GRAFT but they will also take Litecoin and others so please explain to me or give me the plan of action for driving Merchants to sign up ?

Fellestreum, graft have different definition and meaning and base on the reason ans the benefit behind this great project the graft the team mean wad a bud or scion of a plant which also help plant in continues to grow i.e Graft Network is a bud which will help Cryptocurrency to continue to grow.

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February 11, 2018, 04:42:26 PM
 #543

@ Devs or anyone that knows...

Is there a way to import android wallet into linux wallet ?

i have the private keys... just want to know if i import the seed words directly or do i have to convert them into ( 5u6h56565zg64zg34r37f) form ?
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February 11, 2018, 04:46:30 PM
 #544

https://www.reddit.com/r/Electroneum/comments/7a1aho/guide_importing_paper_wallet_into_cli_wallet/
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LaserBadger
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February 11, 2018, 05:06:29 PM
 #545


yeah this is for the PAPER wallet ...

is it the same for the ANDROID wallet?
what i mean is do i input the seed words or do i have to transforme te seed words intoo BIP 38 or something format ?
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February 11, 2018, 05:46:41 PM
 #546

hi, i cant send any graft from windows wallet..its that ok? or i have problem?
send button is grey and do nothing...
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February 11, 2018, 09:00:40 PM
 #547

hi, i cant send any graft from windows wallet..its that ok? or i have problem?
send button is grey and do nothing...

well, in this case I'd say beta actually still means alpha... I guess the functionality isn't implemented as of yet.
if you want to do TX'es you go best with the command line client as for now...
however, cannot comment on the mobile wallets - they may or may not support transactions to date.

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February 11, 2018, 09:09:58 PM
 #548

@ Devs or anyone that knows...

Is there a way to import android wallet into linux wallet ?

i have the private keys... just want to know if i import the seed words directly or do i have to convert them into ( 5u6h56565zg64zg34r37f) form ?
Use words directly. If you need help, procedure is same with monero. Just replace monero with graft.

https://getmonero.org/resources/user-guides/restore_account.html
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February 11, 2018, 09:35:44 PM
 #549

@ Devs or anyone that knows...

Is there a way to import android wallet into linux wallet ?

i have the private keys... just want to know if i import the seed words directly or do i have to convert them into ( 5u6h56565zg64zg34r37f) form ?
Use words directly. If you need help, procedure is same with monero. Just replace monero with graft.

https://getmonero.org/resources/user-guides/restore_account.html

Thank you !
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February 12, 2018, 09:39:17 PM
Last edit: February 13, 2018, 12:17:26 PM by LaserBadger
 #550

Want to sell 170k GRAFT
Pm me for offers & details...
GHminer98761
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February 12, 2018, 10:17:19 PM
Last edit: February 13, 2018, 12:25:25 PM by GHminer98761
 #551

Want to sell 170k GRAFT

Pm me for offers & details...

Woow nice price !
Wait 2 weeks and get 3x !!!
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February 13, 2018, 12:05:42 AM
 #552

Want to sell 170k GRAFT at 2000 sat

Pm me for offers & details...

Woow nice price !
Wait 2 weeks and get 3x !!!

What's your basis for this? GRAFT's own valuation (https://www.graft.network/2017/11/16/how-we-priced-graft-ico/) is $200 million. That puts each of the 1.8 billion coins currently at ~1200 sat. This is coming from the company itself and is probably already an overvaluation, what makes you think it would be ~5x this in 2 weeks?
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February 13, 2018, 12:17:12 PM
 #553

Want to sell 170k GRAFT

Pm me for offers & details...

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February 13, 2018, 02:12:57 PM
 #554

Circulating supply after ico will be less than 100 million grft.
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February 13, 2018, 03:28:36 PM
 #555

Want to sell 170k GRAFT

Pm me for offers & details...

Woow nice price !
Wait 2 weeks and get 3x !!!

How do we know current graft ico price can you tell me more
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February 13, 2018, 07:35:05 PM
 #556

Want to sell 170k GRAFT

Pm me for offers & details...

Woow nice price !
Wait 2 weeks and get 3x !!!

How do we know current graft ico price can you tell me more
it's 2620 satoshi / per GRFT
https://www.graft.network/ico/
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February 14, 2018, 02:38:25 AM
Last edit: February 14, 2018, 03:14:14 AM by tf2addict
 #557

Circulating supply after ico will be less than 100 million grft.

Even if that's true, miners are creating a million or two more per day so it won't stay that low for long, unless they drastically reduce the mining rewards.  And why do I keep seeing references to 18,446,744 max coins in various places?  These numbers are all over the place.
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February 14, 2018, 02:42:37 AM
 #558

Is the Windows wallet a local wallet or some kind of web wallet?  It appears to not need to download any kind of blockchain.  Is my private key stored anywhere online?  Also I cannot even see a history of my incoming coins nor do a transfer.  Is this stuff locked until the ICO ends or something?
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February 14, 2018, 02:45:59 AM
Last edit: February 14, 2018, 03:03:32 AM by tf2addict
 #559

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tf2addict
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February 14, 2018, 02:58:29 AM
 #560

hi, i cant send any graft from windows wallet..its that ok? or i have problem?
send button is grey and do nothing...

well, in this case I'd say beta actually still means alpha... I guess the functionality isn't implemented as of yet.
if you want to do TX'es you go best with the command line client as for now...
however, cannot comment on the mobile wallets - they may or may not support transactions to date.

What command line wallet?  Where is it?
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