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Author Topic: Marketplace trust  (Read 82723 times)
theymos (OP)
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May 23, 2013, 04:55:48 AM
 #41

If troll ratings start getting into trust networks that matter, I will do something to fix the system. I don't think that this will happen, though.

I changed some things:
- The third number now takes into account the risked BTC as well as the number of trades. For every 50 BTC people have risked with you, you get one extra "trade" added to your trade count.
- Added sent ratings to ratings pages.
- Added trust network list to https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust

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Each block is stacked on top of the previous one. Adding another block to the top makes all lower blocks more difficult to remove: there is more "weight" above each block. A transaction in a block 6 blocks deep (6 confirmations) will be very difficult to remove.
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theymos (OP)
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May 23, 2013, 05:05:54 AM
 #42

The trust system will replace scammer tags for most scammers, but it's weak against scammers who were previously very-trusted (like pirateat40), and maybe also against scammers who scam only one person in 100. I will continue giving scammer tags in these cases, at least. I've also been thinking about using scammer tags as part of an arbitration system, but I need to think more about this.

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May 23, 2013, 05:31:41 AM
 #43

How is the first score calculated? Some users (eg John) has very high + scores, but the overall trust rating is still 0.

Does it weigh the feedback age very heavily?
El Cabron
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May 23, 2013, 05:36:22 AM
 #44

The trust system will replace scammer tags for most scammers, but it's weak against scammers who were previously very-trusted (like pirateat40), and maybe also against scammers who scam only one person in 100. I will continue giving scammer tags in these cases, at least. I've also been thinking about using scammer tags as part of an arbitration system, but I need to think more about this.

Seems reasonable and a move in the right direction imo. However I would request you be open about who you trust since this is the default setting.

If you want to force people to trust who you trust and keep their names secret then please let all all opt in to the program.

I find it shocking that you are forcing most people, who do not understand the system to trust these secret people you trust.

I think that is a more than fair request, we do not need any form of secret police here.

Thanks

Sorry El Cabron, you are banned from posting or sending personal messages on this forum.
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https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=622250.msg7030081#msg7030081
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May 23, 2013, 05:37:31 AM
 #45

The trust system will replace scammer tags for most scammers, but it's weak against scammers who were previously very-trusted (like pirateat40), and maybe also against scammers who scam only one person in 100. I will continue giving scammer tags in these cases, at least. I've also been thinking about using scammer tags as part of an arbitration system, but I need to think more about this.

Seems reasonable and a move in the right direction imo. However I would request you be open about who you trust since this is the default setting.

If you want to force people to trust who you trust and keep their names secret then please let all all opt in to the program.

I find it shocking that you are forcing most people, who do not understand the system to trust these secret people you trust.

I think that is a more than fair request, we do not need any form of secret police here.

Thanks
You can see it in the trust page. theymos currently trusts:

            Maged
            OgNasty
            John (John K.)
            Tomatocage
            BadBear
            BCB
            TradeFortress
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May 23, 2013, 05:53:13 AM
 #46

In general, what type of people would you add to your trust list? Should it basically be people who you would say that you trust for their opinions, or people you've traded/interacted with?

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May 23, 2013, 06:02:09 AM
 #47

In general, what type of people would you add to your trust list? Should it basically be people who you would say that you trust for their opinions, or people you've traded/interacted with?
Considering it's solely used for what opinions you see, I would say it's the former rather than the latter (unless you trust their opinions too).
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May 23, 2013, 06:06:59 AM
 #48

In general, what type of people would you add to your trust list? Should it basically be people who you would say that you trust for their opinions, or people you've traded/interacted with?
Considering it's solely used for what opinions you see, I would say it's the former rather than the latter (unless you trust their opinions too).
That's what I figured, thanks!

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May 23, 2013, 06:09:18 AM
 #49

I was just on that tree, trust page, and it is forcing me to trust theymos... I don't want to trust theymos since I never have any trades with him. I don't get why we should be forced to trust anyone on this side, even the admin.

Ummm ... by registering with this forum you are automatically trusting it's admin - ain't that correct ?  Grin
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May 23, 2013, 06:10:25 AM
 #50

I was just on that tree, trust page, and it is forcing me to trust theymos... I don't want to trust theymos since I never have any trades with him. I don't get why we should be forced to trust anyone on this side, even the admin.

Ummm ... by registering with this forum you are automatically trusting it's admin - ain't that correct ?  Grin

Not really, but this is marketplace trust, I never had any trades with him so why should I have him in my trust list?
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May 23, 2013, 06:12:09 AM
 #51

I was just on that tree, trust page, and it is forcing me to trust theymos... I don't want to trust theymos since I never have any trades with him. I don't get why we should be forced to trust anyone on this side, even the admin.

Ummm ... by registering with this forum you are automatically trusting it's admin - ain't that correct ?  Grin

Not really, but this is marketplace trust, I never had any trades with him so why should I have him in my trust list?
Trust someone else instead and theymos would be removed.
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May 23, 2013, 06:12:50 AM
 #52

I was just on that tree, trust page, and it is forcing me to trust theymos... I don't want to trust theymos since I never have any trades with him. I don't get why we should be forced to trust anyone on this side, even the admin.

Ummm ... by registering with this forum you are automatically trusting it's admin - ain't that correct ?  Grin

Not really, but this is marketplace trust, I never had any trades with him so why should I have him in my trust list?

hmmm ... that's true - I agree in that case.
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May 23, 2013, 06:17:42 AM
 #53

I was just on that tree, trust page, and it is forcing me to trust theymos... I don't want to trust theymos since I never have any trades with him. I don't get why we should be forced to trust anyone on this side, even the admin.

Ummm ... by registering with this forum you are automatically trusting it's admin - ain't that correct ?  Grin

Not really, but this is marketplace trust, I never had any trades with him so why should I have him in my trust list?
Trust someone else instead and theymos would be removed.


I did but what if I never done any trades with anyone, I shouldn't be trusting anyone technically not even theymos.
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May 23, 2013, 06:19:08 AM
 #54

Yeah, you can choose who to trust here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust

Enter someone you trust there. Then, theymos will no longer be part of you trust list (unless you entered him or someone who has entered him).
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May 23, 2013, 06:19:51 AM
 #55

I was just on that tree, trust page, and it is forcing me to trust theymos... I don't want to trust theymos since I never have any trades with him. I don't get why we should be forced to trust anyone on this side, even the admin.

Ummm ... by registering with this forum you are automatically trusting it's admin - ain't that correct ?  Grin

Not really, but this is marketplace trust, I never had any trades with him so why should I have him in my trust list?
That is why I asked a clarifying question earlier that got the answer I was looking for (not from theymos, but at least there is some consensus):
In general, what type of people would you add to your trust list? Should it basically be people who you would say that you trust for their opinions, or people you've traded/interacted with?
Considering it's solely used for what opinions you see, I would say it's the former rather than the latter (unless you trust their opinions too).
I suspect that theymos will agree, which is why he's on everyone's list by default.

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May 23, 2013, 06:20:34 AM
 #56

I was just on that tree, trust page, and it is forcing me to trust theymos... I don't want to trust theymos since I never have any trades with him. I don't get why we should be forced to trust anyone on this side, even the admin.

Ummm ... by registering with this forum you are automatically trusting it's admin - ain't that correct ?  Grin

Not really, but this is marketplace trust, I never had any trades with him so why should I have him in my trust list?
Trust someone else instead and theymos would be removed.


I did but what if I never done any trades with anyone, I shouldn't be trusting anyone technically not even theymos.

It's about who's opinions you trust, not who you have done trades with.
theymos (OP)
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May 23, 2013, 06:21:28 AM
 #57

If you don't want to trust anyone, trust someone with an empty trust list (satoshi, for example).

How is the first score calculated? Some users (eg John) has very high + scores, but the overall trust rating is still 0.

Does it weigh the feedback age very heavily?

Yes. Consistency is very important for determining whether someone is trustworthy. Currently, your trust score will go from 0 to 1 when your oldest rating is one month old and you have 10 positive rating points. I might change the algorithm, though.

In general, what type of people would you add to your trust list? Should it basically be people who you would say that you trust for their opinions, or people you've traded/interacted with?

Anyone who will give useful ratings and will themselves have a good trust list. My most important consideration for my list will be choosing a trust network that doesn't have any incorrect negative scores. This will be especially important for the next few months while everyone has low trust scores. Currently, only one negative rating will result in a warning on the person's posts (each negative rating reduces the trust score by 0.5-4 points). This won't be the case after 2-3 months.

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May 23, 2013, 06:23:31 AM
 #58

The trust system will replace scammer tags for most scammers, but it's weak against scammers who were previously very-trusted (like pirateat40), and maybe also against scammers who scam only one person in 100. I will continue giving scammer tags in these cases, at least. I've also been thinking about using scammer tags as part of an arbitration system, but I need to think more about this.

Seems reasonable and a move in the right direction imo. However I would request you be open about who you trust since this is the default setting.

If you want to force people to trust who you trust and keep their names secret then please let all all opt in to the program.

I find it shocking that you are forcing most people, who do not understand the system to trust these secret people you trust.

I think that is a more than fair request, we do not need any form of secret police here.

Thanks
You can see it in the trust page. theymos currently trusts:

            Maged
            OgNasty
            John (John K.)
            Tomatocage
            BadBear
            BCB
            TradeFortress

Thank you for the list.


I very much do not trust OgNasty or BadBear so I guess I will not be participating in this :/  Some of the others I highly trust, and a few I am neutral.

Is there a way to turn it off so i do not have to be bothered by it? Can we at least opt out to the whole system?

Or better yet just let us pick who we trust as the default?
It would be nice if there was a way to specifically exclude someone from the trust list. In the mean time, trust level 0 will only trust the people you specifically put on your list.

El Cabron
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May 23, 2013, 06:24:26 AM
 #59

Yeah, you can choose who to trust here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust

Enter someone you trust there. Then, theymos will no longer be part of you trust list (unless you entered him or someone who has entered him).

It is nice we can opt out but really we should not have been forced to play esp since there is a stacked deck from the start.

Sorry El Cabron, you are banned from posting or sending personal messages on this forum.
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https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=622250.msg7030081#msg7030081
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May 23, 2013, 06:27:10 AM
 #60



I did but what if I never done any trades with anyone, I shouldn't be trusting anyone technically not even theymos.

What will be bad is when one of the guys Theymos trusts and thus has all of us trust does a scam, Theymos will be somewhat at fault morally. Legally I don't know.

Did that rating company for the bonds ever get in trouble for vouching for assets and then be wrong about them after the fact?

Just to cover your ass theymos I would either have people opt into this system or just not pick people by default. Let them pick who they trust.

Exactly theymos shouldn't be the default, but you only get a max of 3 depth, so I guess that is the hedge against that situation.
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