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Author Topic: [ANN] Datacoin - Censorship-Free Data Storage  (Read 33556 times)
Verionum
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May 19, 2018, 09:05:19 AM
 #901

        - because a track record exists of securing the data since November of 2013.
        - because the whole point of the network is persistent storage.

    A fork of the network starting life by saying "let's delete all of the persistent storage" is going to attract no one.
May be it is a necessary sacrifice for make dtc alive.

May be such sacrifice is better than death of dtc.

May be such sacrifice is better to be made now, than later.

And new we can store all of old data in new blockchain with ordinary saving data procedure. Miners can make it. They will pay commission, but they get this commission back while mining correspondent storage blocks.

I don't sure all of it. But it is a big doubts.
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Verionum
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May 19, 2018, 09:19:33 AM
 #902


You're referring to the genesis of a new network which forks Datacoin for economic reasons.

The same thing has happened a thousand times before where a developer says, "Let's make a new coin but do something different -- this time I'll be the one who gets rich."
Unfortunately the dtc is economic entity by design. And economic reason is important for new users.

But when dtc can die at any moment we must think more about new users, not current holders, not me.

I understand your objection, but there are another problems, that can kill dtc. And sometimes fork can rescue the idea.

Noone wants to pay for previous years holders with 11 mln coins. He does it only if dtc is already popular, but it is not.
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May 19, 2018, 09:24:36 AM
 #903

Noone doesn't want to pay for previous years holders with 11 mln coins. They will do it only if dtc is already popular, but it is not.

I don't know who has the 11M DTC nor do I think it matters.
Nonetheless, I will fiercely protect my meager interests in DTC from any political maneuvers to devalue them.
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May 19, 2018, 09:25:52 AM
 #904

The message you're sending to anyone with any DTC right now is to dump them before it is too late.

Think about it.
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May 19, 2018, 09:32:36 AM
 #905

I don't know who has the 11M DTC nor do I think it matters.
Nonetheless, I will fiercely protect my meager interests in DTC from any political maneuvers to devalue them.

Sometimes the such named "political maneuvers" can be simply the wishing for help.

It does not mean that they always are )

But the protection from the "political maneuvers" must not be blind.

If such protection prevents the progress of humanity so it is silly.

I don't know which solution solves the current dtc problem.

But we all must seriously think about it.
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May 19, 2018, 09:35:20 AM
 #906

The message you're sending to anyone with any DTC right now is to dump them before it is too late.

Think about it.
If the destiny of dtc is speculated by my words, defined by my words, then dtc is already dead.

The destiny of dtc must be defined not by my words but by users own thoughts.

You hate political maneuvers. I hate it also. But I hate lie and suppression also.

I think the true talking is useful.

If true talking can kill dtc so it must be.
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May 19, 2018, 09:36:41 AM
 #907

Noone doesn't want to pay for previous years holders with 11 mln coins. They will do it only if dtc is already popular, but it is not.

I don't know who has the 11M DTC nor do I think it matters.
Nonetheless, I will fiercely protect my meager interests in DTC from any political maneuvers to devalue them.

Well apart from the conception that buying cryptocurrency means you are becoming next bag holder, with a bag of some tokens, which doesn't have any intrisic value, is already meaning, you are protecting yourself (obviously), but also you are thinking about selling to the next bagholder. And I'm not saying that Datacoin Project isn't needed or meaningful. Just I say that you do it out of your personal interest.

Besides - as we can see depth chart is in large unfavour on buy side, and people are constantely dumping their old coins, to extract at least some amount of BTC they have left from DTC devaluing and inflation rate it had over the years. And because of it, it's price cant move significantly - there are a lot of bagholders dumping it onto new bagholders.

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May 19, 2018, 09:43:08 AM
 #908

And because of it, it's price cant move significantly

You'll be signing a different tune as soon as one buyer spends $5K on a bag.
You'll be dancing by the time the second buyer picks up a $5K bag.
You'll be praising Satoshi himself by the time it happens on a regular basis.

Do you think erasing the order books by starting a new network without a premine is going to magically create buyers?
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May 19, 2018, 09:48:31 AM
 #909

And because of it, it's price cant move significantly

You'll be signing a different tune as soon as one buyer spends $5K on a bag.
You'll be dancing by the time the second buyer picks up a $5K bag.
You'll be praising Satoshi himself by the time it happens on a regular basis.

Do you think erasing the order books by starting a new network without a premine is going to magically create buyers?

I didn't say it - check nicknames.
What I'm saying - there is a few entities in the network, who has big bags unloading on new bagholders.
I'll be singing? Lol. I won't be singing any new tune, even if someone would want to pump it. I know all manipulation that can happen on crypto markets, and for now DTC won't be manipulated by it, because it isn't on such exchanges.
And what Satoshi has to it? Another lol. As I said, I won't be doing anything. I can have a large bags of some coin, if I like it's ideas (not saying I have large bags of DTC currently), but it won't change the real usage of a network which is minimal. Or their value. Because exchange rate on exchanges aare something completely different - merely a speculation to gain more BTC, and in the end point - gain more cash.

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May 19, 2018, 10:47:55 AM
 #910

I have refrained from posting a "roadmap" while we sort out the (minor) issues around Datacoin Core 0.15.99.  But I see most of those issues have been cleared and I think we can now look to the future.

I think we need to focus on the following:
1.  Datacoin media via Apertus.io and DTCBrowser.  Perhaps it is possible to expand bitfossil to demonstrate some of the social media possibilities that are already encoded into Apertus.io.  We also need someone to run an online instance of DTCBrowser, or incorporate it into the client.
2.  Anonymity.  I am not sure how easy it is to add anonymity with these latest Bitcoin clients but it seems that we are on the way to being able to swap anonymity algorithms in and out.
3.  Smart contracts, and the gaming applications that become possible once those contracts are enabled.

The emergence of ASIC mining for ZCash has shown how important the Prime algorithm is.  Datacoin, Primecoin and Bitcoin Prime will remain ASIC resistant for many years to come.
The Next exchange continues to add coins, and at some point they will come to Datacoin.  We need to be patient.
I believe the wallet with the 11million DTC is the BTER wallet (now trading as Gate.io).  I have asked them to restart trading (with a negative response) and if they do then that wallet will be drawn down.
Another perspective is to note that 2 billion Datacoin will be issued over the next 500 years, and that the 11million will shrink to an insignificant percentage of the coins in circulation.

Because of the immutability of the data, I cannot see how we can fork the chain.

Thank you.
-extro  

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May 19, 2018, 11:12:49 AM
 #911

That will be difficult without a meta-level description that reliably identifies and categorises the structure and content of what is, in essence, an arbitrary chunk of binary code.
I think It is not a big problem.
I know that it is. I've already investigated the topic, I understand the issues. I'm trying to be diplomatic.

Quote
DTC offer storage of binary data for 100 kb per once. Such meta-level descriptionn is independent from network consensus. It is normal to have some different implementation of saving data in dtc. f.e we have some different image formats. gif, jpeg and other. We can have some different ways to store big size data in dtc.
I don't see the relevance of these statements to the issue that binary data is impenetrable. All you can do is try one parsing after another until .... <ping!> oh, a dickpic (or something).

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But we need to start.
An old joke: Tonto and the Lone Ranger are surrounded by hostile Indians. The Lone Ranger: It’s looks like we’re in a lot of trouble, old friend! Tonto: What do you mean “we”, Paleface?

Cheers

Graham
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May 19, 2018, 11:13:04 AM
 #912

I have refrained from posting a "roadmap" while we sort out the (minor) issues around Datacoin Core 0.15.99.  But I see most of those issues have been cleared and I think we can now look to the future.

I think we need to focus on the following:
1.  Datacoin media via Apertus.io and DTCBrowser.  Perhaps it is possible to expand bitfossil to demonstrate some of the social media possibilities that are already encoded into Apertus.io.  We also need someone to run an online instance of DTCBrowser, or incorporate it into the client.
2.  Anonymity.  I am not sure how easy it is to add anonymity with these latest Bitcoin clients but it seems that we are on the way to being able to swap anonymity algorithms in and out.
3.  Smart contracts, and the gaming applications that become possible once those contracts are enabled.

The emergence of ASIC mining for ZCash has shown how important the Prime algorithm is.  Datacoin, Primecoin and Bitcoin Prime will remain ASIC resistant for many years to come.
The Next exchange continues to add coins, and at some point they will come to Datacoin.  We need to be patient.
I believe the wallet with the 11million DTC is the BTER wallet (now trading as Gate.io).  I have asked them to restart trading (with a negative response) and if they do then that wallet will be drawn down.
Another perspective is to note that 2 billion Datacoin will be issued over the next 500 years, and that the 11million will shrink to an insignificant percentage of the coins in circulation.

Because of the immutability of the data, I cannot see how we can fork the chain.

Thank you.
-extro  

I dont see now next exchange gaining any meaningful support really from traders. They aren't so proactive in this regard.

Bitcoin Prime is shitcoin and we all know it, just to pump Primecoin, and Rhett bags.

Primecoin can be made to be asic - it isn't just so important for now (low cap). Zcash will probably change hashing algo with hard fork the same also Zencash.
So those asic will be obsolete. I wouldn't worry for asics on other coins - as long as coins can hard fork, they can change algos with community and nodes consensus, within days.

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May 19, 2018, 11:13:43 AM
 #913


Another perspective is to note that 2 billion Datacoin will be issued over the next 500 years,

Bravo )))))))
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May 19, 2018, 11:20:38 AM
 #914


I don't see the relevance of these statements to the issue that binary data is impenetrable. All you can do is try one parsing after another until .... <ping!> oh, a dickpic (or something).


May be I have misunderstood you. For example. File is cut into parts. These parts saved into blockchain one by one. Each part is saved with hash of previous saving transaction. Finally file is addressed by hash of the last part transaction.

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May 19, 2018, 11:33:36 AM
 #915

It is always mystery for me, we should ever some person HOLD 11M DTC and that is all he does. Just HOLD?
What that person has as goal: ?
Maybe he know future and just stay and wait....
Second people always need to find way to become rich in one night. DTC will not be that coin, but also DTC has no support like Primecoin does. Some persons stay behind scene of Primecoin and make pump from time to time. Primecoin was just few months before like any other coin, and then someone decide to make it "great coin" pump price and we have situation like we have now. If somebody came here, and pump DTC price over night: we will have same.
Yesterday all is sold by upper price and today I sow another buy by 70 sathosi. But those amount of DTC is to low. Difficulty need to be half from today, so I can mine 50% more to get any profit with 70 sathosi per day.
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May 19, 2018, 11:38:07 AM
 #916

Difficulty need to be half from today, so I can mine 50% more to get any profit with 70 sathosi per day.

If your break even price for mining is greater than the cost to buy them on the exchange - then you are being irrational mining them and should instead buy up surplus supply from the exchanges.
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May 19, 2018, 11:43:11 AM
 #917

I don't see the relevance of these statements to the issue that binary data is impenetrable. All you can do is try one parsing after another until .... <ping!> oh, a dickpic (or something).
May be I have misunderstood you. For example. File is cut into parts. These parts saved into blockchain one by one. Each part is saved with hash of previous saving transaction. Finally file is addressed by hash of the last part transaction.

Okay, my vagueness at fault: Datacoin (in common with torrenthash) has only structural metadata, there is no descriptive metadata and that's what's blocking the development of a "nice little app" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metadata)

Cheers

Graham
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May 19, 2018, 11:54:50 AM
 #918

Difficulty need to be half from today, so I can mine 50% more to get any profit with 70 sathosi per day.

If your break even price for mining is greater than the cost to buy them on the exchange - then you are being irrational mining them and should instead buy up surplus supply from the exchanges.

1. I can stop mining? And wait until price arise? Or I can stop selling, but continue to mining. Since difficulty is dropping, I will got higher amount of DTC in same time,
2. Why to buy coin that doesnot promise at all? It is like you throw money in the wind
Woz
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May 19, 2018, 12:02:44 PM
 #919

I wonder how useful it would be to begin running file against the newly etched data and then starting crude descriptive analysis by determining the file type.
This could then lead to later analysis on the file to see whether it is indeed well-formed or if it is lying about its magic bytes.

We would end up with a dataset linking them to a qualitative description similar to:

  • PNG image data, 500 x 320, 8-bit/color RGBA, non-interlaced
  • ASCII text
  • gzip compressed data, was "foo.tar", last modified: Sat Jun 25 21:49:32 2016, from Unix
  • Zip archive data, at least v1.0 to extract
  • MPEG ADTS, layer III, v1, 128 kbps, 44.1 kHz, JntStereo
  • FLAC audio bitstream data, 16 bit, stereo, 44.1 kHz, 7997976 samples

From there a curator would be able to say, "I'll take a look at all of the foo type data and try to further add some categorization"

Eventually, when the structure for managing the collection emerges, we can etch a daily index to aid in discovery of the new data.

Obviously, this would apply to only data which may be decoded where it is either plain or the key has been made public.

-Franco
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May 19, 2018, 01:52:00 PM
 #920

I wonder how useful it would be to begin running file against the newly etched data and then starting crude descriptive analysis by determining the file type.

We would end up with a dataset linking them to an RDF graph

From there a curator would be able to sign the graph, the precise semantics of this act are yet to be determined (but would be expressed in RDF)

Eventually, when the structure for managing the collection emerges, we can etch an RDF graph as a daily index to aid in discovery of the new data.

Obviously, this would apply to only data which may be decoded where it is either plain or the key has been made public There're fewer details, to be sure but there's still descriptive metadata such as number of bytes, datestamp, address of tx creator, it all has value for the curation process

That's do-able. As edited, I'm currently using Fuseki to store the RDF graphs that I create from mapping the acyclic directed graph of the blockchain into the acyclic directed graph that is RDF <- that's a mapping. Technology such as Fresnel (a display vocabulary in RDF) completes the look. Okay, I'm not yet publishing indices

There'll be fun and games working out whether some piece of binary is actually what it seems/claims to be. I wonder if any of them will make it into the category "Things I won't work with".

Cheers

Graham
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