[TAT.VIRTUALMINE]

[boyohi]

If the price of VM drops to .0001 then buying them at the price you'll have 188x the dividends of AM in a week. It wont drop to that low.

I meant drops by 0.0001, not drops to 0.0001. If VM drops, from 0.0070 to 0.0069, for example, then your 420 shares have lost a total of 0.0420 BTC, which exceeds the difference between the 0.035 BTC from AM and 0.0758 BTC from VM.

true but i don't see it dropping .0001 every week anytime soon. I'm just happy making .25btc a day.

[Kyune]

If the price of VM drops to .0001 then buying them at the price you'll have 188x the dividends of AM in a week. It wont drop to that low.

I meant drops by 0.0001, not drops to 0.0001. If VM drops, from 0.0070 to 0.0069, for example, then your 420 shares have lost a total of 0.0420 BTC, which exceeds the difference between the 0.035 BTC from AM and 0.0758 BTC from VM.

true but i don't see it dropping .0001 every week anytime soon. I'm just happy making .25btc a day.

I expect the market price to drop faster than that, in anticipation of upcoming increases in mining difficulty.

[ranlo]

Well, the issue is that with the quickly rising hash-rates, it's going to become less and less valuable. While it may be 10% this month, next month it could be 3%, then 0.1%, etc.

I'm mostly trying to figure out if I should jump in on this now or just keep the BTC (based on number crunching I don't see the dividends paying off based on the current stock prices). I could be wrong, of course.

I feel that this is the biggest issue that people don't realize about VM. The dividend will get smaller, but the price of the bond will also fluctuate based on the expected dividend!

So many people here are calculating ROI as if the price could never drop below the IPO price...

You lost me here. You're saying that as the dividends drop, the price probably will as well. That makes it an even worse investment, wouldn't it? Being that you can't even sell it for what you bought it for?

[Queezy]

Well, the issue is that with the quickly rising hash-rates, it's going to become less and less valuable. While it may be 10% this month, next month it could be 3%, then 0.1%, etc.

I'm mostly trying to figure out if I should jump in on this now or just keep the BTC (based on number crunching I don't see the dividends paying off based on the current stock prices). I could be wrong, of course.

I feel that this is the biggest issue that people don't realize about VM. The dividend will get smaller, but the price of the bond will also fluctuate based on the expected dividend!

So many people here are calculating ROI as if the price could never drop below the IPO price...

You lost me here. You're saying that as the dividends drop, the price probably will as well. That makes it an even worse investment, wouldn't it? Being that you can't even sell it for what you bought it for?

This is the why you not only have to research into your investments, but also keep an eye on them.
The price/share can (and I think will) still go up since, as everyone has pointed out, it is currently outperforming most other dividend style investments. I am not the creator of this, TAT is, but if I was going to start this fund I would have placed the IPO price at below what I thought it was actually worth(which I think he did.) This just makes it even more likely that the market would take notice and sweep them up quickly.
If you are worried about the price going down, just make sure you keep an eye on the prices so it doesn't go under what you consider to be your limit for the dividends you will be receiving.
I'm not going to look up current prices&dividends and do the math, because I am tired but if you have received enough through dividends to make up for the price drop and you are still making decent profit then it is a good investment.
Don't forget that by keeping an eye on it, you can sell a couple of shares when the price is up and buy when they are a little lower to increase your overall holdings.
In my opinion, a lot of people using the term ROI are used to using the math for calculating hardware profitability. While there are a lot of similarities in the math, some things have to be looked at a little different.

So to my original statement (tl;dr) Do research & watch what your money is doing. Math is fun when it's profit =)

*Edit before anyone gets mad- I am not saying any specific post or person here is calculating ROI wrong, this is just the feeling I have gotten in multiple places around the forum on multiple subjects. My point is to be careful and make sure your math is logical and includes all the factors you can think to include (and try to include room for error.)

[ranlo]

Well, the issue is that with the quickly rising hash-rates, it's going to become less and less valuable. While it may be 10% this month, next month it could be 3%, then 0.1%, etc.

I'm mostly trying to figure out if I should jump in on this now or just keep the BTC (based on number crunching I don't see the dividends paying off based on the current stock prices). I could be wrong, of course.

I feel that this is the biggest issue that people don't realize about VM. The dividend will get smaller, but the price of the bond will also fluctuate based on the expected dividend!

So many people here are calculating ROI as if the price could never drop below the IPO price...

You lost me here. You're saying that as the dividends drop, the price probably will as well. That makes it an even worse investment, wouldn't it? Being that you can't even sell it for what you bought it for?

This is the why you not only have to research into your investments, but also keep an eye on them.
The price/share can (and I think will) still go up since, as everyone has pointed out, it is currently outperforming most other dividend style investments. I am not the creator of this, TAT is, but if I was going to start this fund I would have placed the IPO price at below what I thought it was actually worth(which I think he did.) This just makes it even more likely that the market would take notice and sweep them up quickly.
If you are worried about the price going down, just make sure you keep an eye on the prices so it doesn't go under what you consider to be your limit for the dividends you will be receiving.
I'm not going to look up current prices&dividends and do the math, because I am tired but if you have received enough through dividends to make up for the price drop and you are still making decent profit then it is a good investment.
Don't forget that by keeping an eye on it, you can sell a couple of shares when the price is up and buy when they are a little lower to increase your overall holdings.
In my opinion, a lot of people using the term ROI are used to using the math for calculating hardware profitability. While there are a lot of similarities in the math, some things have to be looked at a little different.

So to my original statement (tl;dr) Do research & watch what your money is doing. Math is fun when it's profit =)

I've got ya now. I'm new to stocks so basically the trick is to watch it carefully and react when the time is right.

[Queezy]

That is a big part of it yes, but also don't give in to emotions and overreact. This is the hardest part of most trading =)
I haven't found any really good sources yet that talk about trading in bitcoins or bitcoin related stocks, but most of the things you learn about other stock exchanges, as well as forex markets can be a big help. The bitcoin market is still very young though, so some crazy things can and do still happen.
If anyone knows some good places to research please do share them, maybe even in a new thread as to not clog this one with unrelated topics.

[Lorren]

I've had some of this asset since the IPO.  Although the price is fluctuating, as of today, if it sells at over .0065857, I've made a profit, after factoring in dividends.  At this point, as long as I'm not desperate to sell, I come out ahead.  The longer I hold it, the more I come out ahead.

[ranlo]

That is a big part of it yes, but also don't give in to emotions and overreact. This is the hardest part of most trading =)
I haven't found any really good sources yet that talk about trading in bitcoins or bitcoin related stocks, but most of the things you learn about other stock exchanges, as well as forex markets can be a big help. The bitcoin market is still very young though, so some crazy things can and do still happen.
If anyone knows some good places to research please do share them, maybe even in a new thread as to not clog this one with unrelated topics.

I'd love resources as well. And thanks a lot for your help, Queezy, . You're awesome!

[Queezy]

I'd love resources as well. And thanks a lot for your help, Queezy, . You're awesome!

Awww, Thank you =)
My first official compliment. =)

[ranlo]

I'd love resources as well. And thanks a lot for your help, Queezy, . You're awesome!

Awww, Thank you =)
My first official compliment. =)

lol, I'm glad it came from me then, :p. Bookmark that comment and anytime you have a bad day, reflect on it!

[Queezy]

Another great point to bring up about TAT.VM is the DAILY dividends. To me this is the greatest part.
I try to think of most of my investments in terms of how well i can compound the gains, to increase them even faster. If you don't know much about compounding interest and the like, I would suggest doing a quick google search and read up on it for 3-5 minutes. Most people who have never heard of it(which is actually higher than I realized) are astonished at the difference it can make. And it is not a complicated idea, just something a lot don't realize until they are told about it.

[twentyseventy]

I've had some of this asset since the IPO.  Although the price is fluctuating, as of today, if it sells at over .0065857, I've made a profit, after factoring in dividends.  At this point, as long as I'm not desperate to sell, I come out ahead.  The longer I hold it, the more I come out ahead.

See, that's not necessarily true. If the price stays above.0065, yes, you come out ahead. However, what if the market rate drops and you can only sell for .006? Or .004? I could be tomorrow or in three months, but you have to take in the bind market price as well.

[Queezy]

I've had some of this asset since the IPO.  Although the price is fluctuating, as of today, if it sells at over .0065857, I've made a profit, after factoring in dividends.  At this point, as long as I'm not desperate to sell, I come out ahead.  The longer I hold it, the more I come out ahead.

See, that's not necessarily true. If the price stays above.0065, yes, you come out ahead. However, what if the market rate drops and you can only sell for .006? Or .004? I could be tomorrow or in three months, but you have to take in the bind market price as well.

That is why it's called an investment and not "Free Money!!" lol
The point I and I think Lorren was trying to make is that profit has already been made. Yes, you have to worry about difficulty going up, rewards going down, share price fluctuation, and many other details. But the longer it is held, the less you have essentially paid for it because of the funds you have received back through dividends.

[Lorren]

I've had some of this asset since the IPO.  Although the price is fluctuating, as of today, if it sells at over .0065857, I've made a profit, after factoring in dividends.  At this point, as long as I'm not desperate to sell, I come out ahead.  The longer I hold it, the more I come out ahead.

See, that's not necessarily true. If the price stays above.0065, yes, you come out ahead. However, what if the market rate drops and you can only sell for .006? Or .004? I could be tomorrow or in three months, but you have to take in the bind market price as well.

If it happens tomorrow, I look to see if I have any available funds lying around in my account to buy more ;-).  Since I get daily dividends, the amount in my account goes up every day.

There's always a chance that you'll lose your money, with any of these investments.  For that reason, it's a good idea not to have all of your money in one place (I currently have a little bit invested in 4 places).  At this point, I could lose a bit of money and still come out ahead, as I've made a 25% return since I started trading last month.

Difficulty is not so high at the moment that dividends are going to shrink like crazy on the next change.  As long as people are still getting paid, most are not going to value their investment that low, that quickly.  While some might, the majority probably won't.  That's not saying that it won't go down a bit, but overall, those that are fearful and bail at a low price will have their shares picked up by people looking for a bargain.  If you panic sell, then you probably will lose money.

For the share price, this is still paying pretty good divs.  While the share price is 10X the cost of AMC, for example, just ONE of its divs is 40 times what their last div paid.  TAT.Asicminer is paying about 10X the VM's daily divs per week, which amounts to 1.4 times the amount that VirtualMiner costs, at 4x the cost (although I do have shares in both of them).  So at this point, it's a pretty good deal.  Later on, it might not be so much.  You do have to pay attention though, because there is the chance to lose a lot more if you don't stay on top of it.

[joele]

I've had some of this asset since the IPO.  Although the price is fluctuating, as of today, if it sells at over .0065857, I've made a profit, after factoring in dividends.  At this point, as long as I'm not desperate to sell, I come out ahead.  The longer I hold it, the more I come out ahead.

See, that's not necessarily true. If the price stays above.0065, yes, you come out ahead. However, what if the market rate drops and you can only sell for .006? Or .004? I could be tomorrow or in three months, but you have to take in the bind market price as well.

If it happens tomorrow, I look to see if I have any available funds lying around in my account to buy more ;-).  Since I get daily dividends, the amount in my account goes up every day.

There's always a chance that you'll lose your money, with any of these investments.  For that reason, it's a good idea not to have all of your money in one place (I currently have a little bit invested in 4 places).  At this point, I could lose a bit of money and still come out ahead, as I've made a 25% return since I started trading last month.

Difficulty is not so high at the moment that dividends are going to shrink like crazy on the next change.  As long as people are still getting paid, most are not going to value their investment that low, that quickly.  While some might, the majority probably won't.  That's not saying that it won't go down a bit, but overall, those that are fearful and bail at a low price will have their shares picked up by people looking for a bargain.  If you panic sell, then you probably will lose money.

For the share price, this is still paying pretty good divs.  While the share price is 10X the cost of AMC, for example, just ONE of its divs is 40 times what their last div paid.  TAT.Asicminer is paying about 10X the VM's daily divs per week, which amounts to 1.4 times the amount that VirtualMiner costs, at 4x the cost (although I do have shares in both of them).  So at this point, it's a pretty good deal.  Later on, it might not be so much.  You do have to pay attention though, because there is the chance to lose a lot more if you don't stay on top of it.

If you like daily div then buy some at DMS.MINING, 5MH/s buying price right now is 0.02999, so 1Mh/s is only 0.005998, same daily dividend.
Hurry buy now!... but wait! there's more, DMS.SELLING, DMS.PURCHASE check them out.

[ThickAsThieves]

I've had some of this asset since the IPO.  Although the price is fluctuating, as of today, if it sells at over .0065857, I've made a profit, after factoring in dividends.  At this point, as long as I'm not desperate to sell, I come out ahead.  The longer I hold it, the more I come out ahead.

See, that's not necessarily true. If the price stays above.0065, yes, you come out ahead. However, what if the market rate drops and you can only sell for .006? Or .004? I could be tomorrow or in three months, but you have to take in the bind market price as well.

If it happens tomorrow, I look to see if I have any available funds lying around in my account to buy more ;-).  Since I get daily dividends, the amount in my account goes up every day.

There's always a chance that you'll lose your money, with any of these investments.  For that reason, it's a good idea not to have all of your money in one place (I currently have a little bit invested in 4 places).  At this point, I could lose a bit of money and still come out ahead, as I've made a 25% return since I started trading last month.

Difficulty is not so high at the moment that dividends are going to shrink like crazy on the next change.  As long as people are still getting paid, most are not going to value their investment that low, that quickly.  While some might, the majority probably won't.  That's not saying that it won't go down a bit, but overall, those that are fearful and bail at a low price will have their shares picked up by people looking for a bargain.  If you panic sell, then you probably will lose money.

For the share price, this is still paying pretty good divs.  While the share price is 10X the cost of AMC, for example, just ONE of its divs is 40 times what their last div paid.  TAT.Asicminer is paying about 10X the VM's daily divs per week, which amounts to 1.4 times the amount that VirtualMiner costs, at 4x the cost (although I do have shares in both of them).  So at this point, it's a pretty good deal.  Later on, it might not be so much.  You do have to pay attention though, because there is the chance to lose a lot more if you don't stay on top of it.

If you like daily div then buy some at DMS.MINING, 5MH/s buying price right now is 0.02999, so 1Mh/s is only 0.005998, same daily dividend.

Except DMS.MINING doesn't work the same, and buyers better make sure they understand what they're buying in either case before jumping in.

[ranlo]

I've had some of this asset since the IPO.  Although the price is fluctuating, as of today, if it sells at over .0065857, I've made a profit, after factoring in dividends.  At this point, as long as I'm not desperate to sell, I come out ahead.  The longer I hold it, the more I come out ahead.

See, that's not necessarily true. If the price stays above.0065, yes, you come out ahead. However, what if the market rate drops and you can only sell for .006? Or .004? I could be tomorrow or in three months, but you have to take in the bind market price as well.

If it happens tomorrow, I look to see if I have any available funds lying around in my account to buy more ;-).  Since I get daily dividends, the amount in my account goes up every day.

There's always a chance that you'll lose your money, with any of these investments.  For that reason, it's a good idea not to have all of your money in one place (I currently have a little bit invested in 4 places).  At this point, I could lose a bit of money and still come out ahead, as I've made a 25% return since I started trading last month.

Difficulty is not so high at the moment that dividends are going to shrink like crazy on the next change.  As long as people are still getting paid, most are not going to value their investment that low, that quickly.  While some might, the majority probably won't.  That's not saying that it won't go down a bit, but overall, those that are fearful and bail at a low price will have their shares picked up by people looking for a bargain.  If you panic sell, then you probably will lose money.

For the share price, this is still paying pretty good divs.  While the share price is 10X the cost of AMC, for example, just ONE of its divs is 40 times what their last div paid.  TAT.Asicminer is paying about 10X the VM's daily divs per week, which amounts to 1.4 times the amount that VirtualMiner costs, at 4x the cost (although I do have shares in both of them).  So at this point, it's a pretty good deal.  Later on, it might not be so much.  You do have to pay attention though, because there is the chance to lose a lot more if you don't stay on top of it.

If you like daily div then buy some at DMS.MINING, 5MH/s buying price right now is 0.02999, so 1Mh/s is only 0.005998, same daily dividend.

Except DMS.MINING doesn't work the same, and buyers better make sure they understand what they're buying in either case before jumping in.

Can you please explain this a little real quick, what makes them different?

[ThickAsThieves]

I've had some of this asset since the IPO.  Although the price is fluctuating, as of today, if it sells at over .0065857, I've made a profit, after factoring in dividends.  At this point, as long as I'm not desperate to sell, I come out ahead.  The longer I hold it, the more I come out ahead.

See, that's not necessarily true. If the price stays above.0065, yes, you come out ahead. However, what if the market rate drops and you can only sell for .006? Or .004? I could be tomorrow or in three months, but you have to take in the bind market price as well.

If it happens tomorrow, I look to see if I have any available funds lying around in my account to buy more ;-).  Since I get daily dividends, the amount in my account goes up every day.

There's always a chance that you'll lose your money, with any of these investments.  For that reason, it's a good idea not to have all of your money in one place (I currently have a little bit invested in 4 places).  At this point, I could lose a bit of money and still come out ahead, as I've made a 25% return since I started trading last month.

Difficulty is not so high at the moment that dividends are going to shrink like crazy on the next change.  As long as people are still getting paid, most are not going to value their investment that low, that quickly.  While some might, the majority probably won't.  That's not saying that it won't go down a bit, but overall, those that are fearful and bail at a low price will have their shares picked up by people looking for a bargain.  If you panic sell, then you probably will lose money.

For the share price, this is still paying pretty good divs.  While the share price is 10X the cost of AMC, for example, just ONE of its divs is 40 times what their last div paid.  TAT.Asicminer is paying about 10X the VM's daily divs per week, which amounts to 1.4 times the amount that VirtualMiner costs, at 4x the cost (although I do have shares in both of them).  So at this point, it's a pretty good deal.  Later on, it might not be so much.  You do have to pay attention though, because there is the chance to lose a lot more if you don't stay on top of it.

If you like daily div then buy some at DMS.MINING, 5MH/s buying price right now is 0.02999, so 1Mh/s is only 0.005998, same daily dividend.

Except DMS.MINING doesn't work the same, and buyers better make sure they understand what they're buying in either case before jumping in.

Can you please explain this a little real quick, what makes them different?

DMS assets cannot be explained quickly, you can read the asset descriptions (it's a set of 3), or you can pm Deprived though.

EDIT: This is a TAT.VM thread after all, I try not to jump in on his thread just the same.

[ranlo]

I've had some of this asset since the IPO.  Although the price is fluctuating, as of today, if it sells at over .0065857, I've made a profit, after factoring in dividends.  At this point, as long as I'm not desperate to sell, I come out ahead.  The longer I hold it, the more I come out ahead.

See, that's not necessarily true. If the price stays above.0065, yes, you come out ahead. However, what if the market rate drops and you can only sell for .006? Or .004? I could be tomorrow or in three months, but you have to take in the bind market price as well.

If it happens tomorrow, I look to see if I have any available funds lying around in my account to buy more ;-).  Since I get daily dividends, the amount in my account goes up every day.

There's always a chance that you'll lose your money, with any of these investments.  For that reason, it's a good idea not to have all of your money in one place (I currently have a little bit invested in 4 places).  At this point, I could lose a bit of money and still come out ahead, as I've made a 25% return since I started trading last month.

Difficulty is not so high at the moment that dividends are going to shrink like crazy on the next change.  As long as people are still getting paid, most are not going to value their investment that low, that quickly.  While some might, the majority probably won't.  That's not saying that it won't go down a bit, but overall, those that are fearful and bail at a low price will have their shares picked up by people looking for a bargain.  If you panic sell, then you probably will lose money.

For the share price, this is still paying pretty good divs.  While the share price is 10X the cost of AMC, for example, just ONE of its divs is 40 times what their last div paid.  TAT.Asicminer is paying about 10X the VM's daily divs per week, which amounts to 1.4 times the amount that VirtualMiner costs, at 4x the cost (although I do have shares in both of them).  So at this point, it's a pretty good deal.  Later on, it might not be so much.  You do have to pay attention though, because there is the chance to lose a lot more if you don't stay on top of it.

If you like daily div then buy some at DMS.MINING, 5MH/s buying price right now is 0.02999, so 1Mh/s is only 0.005998, same daily dividend.

Except DMS.MINING doesn't work the same, and buyers better make sure they understand what they're buying in either case before jumping in.

Can you please explain this a little real quick, what makes them different?

DMS assets cannot be explained quickly, you can read the asset descriptions (it's a set of 3), or you can pm Deprived though.

EDIT: This is a TAT.VM thread after all, I try not to jump in on his thread just the same.

Got it. Thanks! Hopefully this is a bit more on-topic then... are "TAT" and "DMS" acronyms that are not specific to just the Bitcoin world/cryptostocks?

[ThickAsThieves]

are "TAT" and "DMS" acronyms that are not specific to just the Bitcoin world/cryptostocks?

They are ticker tags meant to let people know who is running them. Any asset I release will have TAT. on it, so you know it's me!