Open letter to Theymos regarding Butterfly Labs (BFL)

[-ck]

The transactions to Luke and Con Kolivas seem legit (even though some shade remain about the relationship between Luke and BLF).

I definitely received a donation, and it was unsolicited and totally unexpected. Took me half the day to figure out where it had even come from since I received no notification, but it is most welcome.

You should thank all the preorder customers of BFL. They likely funded that donation indirectly.

Will do.

[1715355340]

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[1715355340]

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[1715355340]

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[smoothie]

The transactions to Luke and Con Kolivas seem legit (even though some shade remain about the relationship between Luke and BLF).

I definitely received a donation, and it was unsolicited and totally unexpected. Took me half the day to figure out where it had even come from since I received no notification, but it is most welcome.

You should thank all the preorder customers of BFL. They likely funded that donation indirectly.

Will do.

Thank you. That is a much better response than Kano gave when posed with the same task about him getting a free BFL unit.

[YipYip]

I had written a VERY VERY long post about this issue but really

In regards to the mods and this

"GO SUCKIT"

[BadBear]

EDIT: It looks like this is resolved, at least for BFL:
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/content/134-butterfly-labs-donates-1000-btc-charity-bitcoin-related-projects.html

1. So because they made a new website that they own and control and put up that they paid XX btc to Y party then it is all settled? Just take their word for it? Bullshit. Piratat40 could then easily put up on his website "PAID ALL MY INVESTORS BACK PLUS 7% WEEKYL INTEREST" in BIG BOLD letters and be free and clear of being a scammer right? Come on that is some fucked up logic.

It's progress. Proof that the money was given to charity can be provided at a later point within a reasonable time period. Charity organizations don't set themselves up instantly.

Here is my issue, despite all of the signs, the delays, lies, bullshit, etc, you as well as it appears the rest of the mods and theymos are giving BFL too much the "benefit of the doubt".

Even John K is skeptical about being an escrow for BFL chip batches. Doesn't that say something?

I suppose not.

Don't get me or the other mods wrong, we absolutely believe that BFL is mismanaged and is unlikely to deliver as promised, but that doesn't mean they are scamming anybody. Our personal opinions have no bearing on the matter.

Perhaps then it would be a good faith gesture to turn down any and all BFL advertisements on bitcointalk?

Seems fair given you folks don't believe BFL can deliver on their promises, the forum shouldn't be enabling more broken promises to be perpetuated.

Why should we censor a business based on nothing but our opinion? Like Maged said, our opinion is largely irrelevant.

I had written a VERY VERY long post about this issue but really

In regards to the mods and this

"GO SUCKIT"

Strong argument, thanks for your contribution.

[becoin]

Why should we censor a business based on nothing but our opinion?

Why did you censor people based on nothing but your opinion when they warned about BFL fraudsters many months ago? You didn't just censor them. You've also locked the threads and have changed the titles to insult and mock them.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=137026.0

[YipYip]

EDIT: It looks like this is resolved, at least for BFL:
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/content/134-butterfly-labs-donates-1000-btc-charity-bitcoin-related-projects.html

1. So because they made a new website that they own and control and put up that they paid XX btc to Y party then it is all settled? Just take their word for it? Bullshit. Piratat40 could then easily put up on his website "PAID ALL MY INVESTORS BACK PLUS 7% WEEKYL INTEREST" in BIG BOLD letters and be free and clear of being a scammer right? Come on that is some fucked up logic.

It's progress. Proof that the money was given to charity can be provided at a later point within a reasonable time period. Charity organizations don't set themselves up instantly.

Here is my issue, despite all of the signs, the delays, lies, bullshit, etc, you as well as it appears the rest of the mods and theymos are giving BFL too much the "benefit of the doubt".

Even John K is skeptical about being an escrow for BFL chip batches. Doesn't that say something?

I suppose not.

Don't get me or the other mods wrong, we absolutely believe that BFL is mismanaged and is unlikely to deliver as promised, but that doesn't mean they are scamming anybody. Our personal opinions have no bearing on the matter.

Perhaps then it would be a good faith gesture to turn down any and all BFL advertisements on bitcointalk?

Seems fair given you folks don't believe BFL can deliver on their promises, the forum shouldn't be enabling more broken promises to be perpetuated.

Why should we censor a business based on nothing but our opinion? Like Maged said, our opinion is largely irrelevant.

I had written a VERY VERY long post about this issue but really

In regards to the mods and this

"GO SUCKIT"

Strong argument, thanks for your contribution.

As i had written a very very long statement .. i stopped half way through as there is really noi point discussing it with you pple as u have been bought off..

Ok how about just a little bit..

Look it is plain and simple a waste of time with these pple aka sold out moderators to this forum!!

On the numerous sock puppets ...int30h just calling people "CUNTS"  and thats OK ?>??

As long as it is to the bennifit of BIG FUCKING LIES ... YOU ARE WASTING YOUR TIME

They have bought all and sundry ... the masters of the con game .... giving 50 btc to chklovis as a charity when all it is about is PR and currying favour for him and the community with the most amount of noise... I call this there BRIBE FUND ...maybe you guys can be another well deserving charity as I am sure they will happily donate more money to you ..lol

These mother fucking lying dogs are mining with peopels equipment so i gurantee that they wont be going out of business as they are "TESTING" all the new chips and rigs for as long as they have a cash flow problem !!

The crypto community has created this monster that has bought all and sundry...the only chance was if the mods treated these guys how they should be so that ppl know who and what they are ...

I am sorry to say that these mother fuckers are going to be with us for a long long time

SO thank you mods for blessing us with having Josh/inaba and sonny having influence and corrupting the community for ever and a day

Honestly "GO FUCK YOURSELFS"

Thats all I can say because u are so full of shit it really saddens me ...that after all that has happened because of a few $$ u turn a blind eye to all that has passed...

What after every insult and after LIE AFTER LIE AFTER FUCKING LIE !!!!!  it is called a fraudelent mis-representation ....how about the proto in OCT that existed or the clock buffer with the previous proto that they sent back ..yeah right ..lets agree that the first time they had a chip was in april as we all know !!! Given there past history and track record that the likeyhood that they ARE NOT mining on main net ...yeah right ...Can you say with straight face with all of that .... that BFL is all good to go!!! ... Here is my response if the answer is YES

This is the reason that is holding back crypto from mainstreaming....

Oh and BTW GO FUCK YOURSELFS AGAIN.... LOOK IN THE MIRROR AT THE SOLD OUT PIECE OF SHIT THAT YOU PPL ARE !!!

I dont care because you pple are a fucking joke  Please revoke all of the other scammer tags that have gone previously because honestly there is no point...!!!!

THEY DESERVE AN UNTRUSTWORTHY AT LEAST DONT YOU THINK !!

...so thats what i thought as it was still sitting in clip board.... but really it does not matter ..as all these facts are as elastic as you want to twist them as I know u will just like johs's power ratings his bets and anything else that he wants or cares to do or my favourite the ARril 1 delivery of Luke Jr mining rig for the "SHipping in April" bet!!!!..that one was con man gold ..as it had been shipped and once proven it was not it was suddenly on site but was still classed as being shipped ...LIKE WTF how much can any sane person take in relation to how u guys are just fucking with us all .. so honestly why bother... u will either ignore or belittle anything and everything to satisfy every lie and property by deception exercised by these con artist... ignoring is being a party to this crime !!!

Whatever...........keep up the excellent job that u guys are doing in regards to this issue..love your work ..lol

[smoothie]

Why should we censor a business based on nothing but our opinion?

Why did you censor people based on nothing but your opinion when they warned about BFL fraudsters many months ago? You didn't just censor them. You've also locked the threads and have changed the titles to insult and mock them.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=137026.0

So I guess the following holds true:

1. If the mods of this forum disagree with mere individuals and their views on BFL and the BS they can mock/troll you, censor you, change the title of the topic, and lock topics that are in regard to BFL if they so please.

2. But if the same is true for a business like BFL, censoring is not an option when it comes to their opinions of said company.

DOUBLE STANDARD MUCH?

Pretty clear as day I'd say BadBear.  

[BadBear]

Why did you censor people based on nothing but your opinion when they warned about BFL fraudsters many months ago? You didn't just censor them. You've also locked the threads and have changed the titles to insult and mock them.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=137026.0

That wasn't me, and I don't know the whole story but I don't really agree with those actions.

So I guess the following holds true:

1. If the mods of this forum disagree with mere individuals and their views on BFL and the BS they can mock/troll you, censor you, change the title of the topic, and lock topics that are in regard to BFL if they so please.

2. But if the same is true for a business like BFL, censoring is not an option when it comes to their opinions of said company.

DOUBLE STANDARD MUCH?

Pretty clear as day I'd say BadBear. 

Two wrongs don't make a right, sorry smoothie, try harder. 
It's funny that you're all for censorship when it benefits you though.

...

You were right, you shouldn't have bothered posting.

[smoothie]

Two wrongs don't make a right, sorry smoothie, try harder.  
It's funny that you're all for censorship when it benefits you though.

Now comes the denial. "oh it wasn't me"...ok sure whatever...next...

Oh what are you referencing when you claim I am for censorship when it benefits me?

Link and PROOF? Please oh please show me where I advocate censorship on this forum when it BENEFITS ME ....i.e. PROFIT.

Nice try BadBear to turn the tables on me, when I actually have no censorship powers, unlike you. Mr. Global Moderator.

 

[smoothie]

Okay well I am done on this topic. BFL will be allowed to do what they want on this forum whether it is misleading, lying etc.

I'll just be lurking with my popcorn when it all blows up. Who knows what this implies in terms of this forum (shrug).

/End Rant

[BadBear]

Now comes the denial. "oh it wasn't me"...ok sure whatever...next...
...
Oh what are you referencing when you claim I am for censorship when it benefits me?
...
 

Even that guy knows it wasn't me, says so in the op. You're too quick to jump to conclusions, it's a trend with you.

And I don't mean for profit, I don't think you're a bad guy smoothie  .

[Xian01]

Nice try BadBear to turn the tables on me, when I actually have no censorship powers, unlike you. Mr. Global Moderator.

 Just drop it already smoothie. It's obvious we would have an easier time asking Monsanto lobbyists to get out of politics than we would getting the forums administration here to do anything about community concerns.

[smoothie]

Now comes the denial. "oh it wasn't me"...ok sure whatever...next...
...
Oh what are you referencing when you claim I am for censorship when it benefits me?
...
 

Even that guy knows it wasn't me, says so in the op. You're too quick to jump to conclusions, it's a trend with you.

And I don't mean for profit, I don't think you're a bad guy smoothie  .

1. Prove us wrong that it wasn't you.

2. Oh so now we want to make claims that aren't even relevant to what we are discussing (i.e. BFL is a FOR-PROFIT organization). I am a FOR-ENTERTAINMENT individual.

Big difference. lol

Oh and I am still waiting for proof ...not just about #1 but from my previous post...

Good job, make claims and don't back them up. That is a good sign we should believe it wasn't you who locked that thread right? Without proof?

Waiting...

[Maged]

So I guess the following holds true:

1. If the mods of this forum disagree with mere individuals and their views on BFL and the BS they can mock/troll you, censor you, change the title of the topic, and lock topics that are in regard to BFL if they so please.

That would be the local mods. If I recall, it was either DiabloD3 or Luke-Jr who did that, both of whom are no longer mods.

2. But if the same is true for a business like BFL, censoring is not an option when it comes to their opinions of said company.

You'll find that the global mods and admins are extremely consistent with our moderation decisions. Nobody from those groups was involved in the first action you mention above.

[MooC Tals]

Moderators:

The image of your authority is in question, not by all I don't believe it is your job to police morality of businesses. You do need to be neutral in all matters. However you like most business need money to run the forum and should be obvious to all here. I suggested before that you allow other in the community that are concerned to buy ad space to warn others. Putting an announcement that although you take on adverts from companies you are not condoning any company or have any opinion on any matter. Closing threads should follow the rules of profanity and excessive hate crimes and porn and the rules you have outlined.

BFL supporters:

You have your opinions and the right to voice them. Please consider all facts and if you choose to not to head the warning or you believe they're not true its fine. For me at least is not an issue besides its your money.

BFL non supporters:

You need to understand that the rules of the forum need to be followed and BFL has the right to advertise here just like every other company however you all have the right to advertise as well. Instead of voicing your concerns bashing moderators incurring resistance to your cause. Work with them in a civil manner and be on equal footing with BFL's right to advertise. CROWED FUND ad space here and support the community along with this great forum. Take the forum back for the community.

To the community:

If you have a concern about the issue of BFL and would like to support ad space to have this ask a representative from the community to escrow a fund and lets move forward with this. If a moderator wishes to take this on please voice your intention and lets restore the image of bitcoin and this forum as a community of like mined individuals aspiring to change the idea of commerce and the future.

Lets get this done. I may not have much but I am willing to donate to a solution.

[YipYip]

Nice try BadBear to turn the tables on me, when I actually have no censorship powers, unlike you. Mr. Global Moderator.

 Just drop it already smoothie. It's obvious we would have an easier time asking Monsanto lobbyists to get out of politics than we would getting the forums administration here to do anything about community concerns.

...i loled

[Lethn]

It's not the moderators fault people are stupid enough to pre-order this stuff in the first place despite knowing their history, this complaint would be like if a group got together about weight loss advertisements on piratebay and demanded the advertisements got taken down because they didn't work and were a scam. You can't protect people from their own stupidity, governments have been trying that for years and no amount of warning stickers, tags and censorship ( which is what you're advocating ) will stop stupid people from doing stupid things.

Stop blaming the moderators for other peoples stupidity, I think the only one who was doing anything useful about this situation was that guy who was actively advertising and warning people about BFL ( Was it TradeFortress? Can't remember ) that's a better spend of time than trying to force the moderators to remove a source of income that won't really affect much in the first place beyond their own wallets. People just need to shut the fuck up and admit there are stupid people out there who don't know any better and they're going to pay for it no matter what we do, I call it Darwinism.

[Frizz23]

Stop blaming the moderators for other peoples stupidity, ...

We didn't. All we did was ask the moderators to give them a scammer tag.

553 users voted yes, 154 voted no so far.

A 78% majority is quite a strong message one might think.

[smoothie]

It's not the moderators fault people are stupid enough to pre-order this stuff in the first place despite knowing their history, this complaint would be like if a group got together about weight loss advertisements on piratebay and demanded the advertisements got taken down because they didn't work and were a scam. You can't protect people from their own stupidity, governments have been trying that for years and no amount of warning stickers, tags and censorship ( which is what you're advocating ) will stop stupid people from doing stupid things.

Stop blaming the moderators for other peoples stupidity, I think the only one who was doing anything useful about this situation was that guy who was actively advertising and warning people about BFL ( Was it TradeFortress? Can't remember ) that's a better spend of time than trying to force the moderators to remove a source of income that won't really affect much in the first place beyond their own wallets. People just need to shut the fuck up and admit there are stupid people out there who don't know any better and they're going to pay for it no matter what we do, I call it Darwinism.

It is when the owners of the forum allow advertisements of "Order Now BFL XX GH/s for $yyyy"...instead of saying it is a preorder.

Misleading advertisements do not help the situation. That is called false advertising.

[billotronic]

Moderators:

The image of your authority is in question, not by all I don't believe it is your job to police morality of businesses. You do need to be neutral in all matters. However you like most business need money to run the forum and should be obvious to all here. I suggested before that you allow other in the community that are concerned to buy ad space to warn others. Putting an announcement that although you take on adverts from companies you are not condoning any company or have any opinion on any matter. Closing threads should follow the rules of profanity and excessive hate crimes and porn and the rules you have outlined.

BFL supporters:

You have your opinions and the right to voice them. Please consider all facts and if you choose to not to head the warning or you believe they're not true its fine. For me at least is not an issue besides its your money.

BFL non supporters:

You need to understand that the rules of the forum need to be followed and BFL has the right to advertise here just like every other company however you all have the right to advertise as well. Instead of voicing your concerns bashing moderators incurring resistance to your cause. Work with them in a civil manner and be on equal footing with BFL's right to advertise. CROWED FUND ad space here and support the community along with this great forum. Take the forum back for the community.

To the community:

If you have a concern about the issue of BFL and would like to support ad space to have this ask a representative from the community to escrow a fund and lets move forward with this. If a moderator wishes to take this on please voice your intention and lets restore the image of bitcoin and this forum as a community of like mined individuals aspiring to change the idea of commerce and the future.

Lets get this done. I may not have much but I am willing to donate to a solution.

1. This is too practical of a solution
2. This post has no cursing
3. This post lacks non-standard text size
4. This post provides a proactive solution to a problem

I think it's safe to say this is in the wrong thread! yuk yuk yuk

Back to the point. Fuck BFL, I want my coffee warmer!