Open letter to Theymos regarding Butterfly Labs (BFL)

[Epinnoia]

People who paid 2k bitcoins, expecting to get their product and make a ROI of 30 days or less for a $30,000 product.
Now valued at $250,000 worth of bitcoin, and make their original ROI in how long?


Seems like a pretty legit way to make some money, collect $30,000 in bitcoin, wait for the price to go up, refund in usd keep the $250,000 in bitcoin.

Unless you can show that BFL owns BitPay, your criticism makes absolutely no sense at all.  When you pay BFL bitcoins, those bitcoins do NOT go to BFL -- they go to BitPay who converts them to dollars immediately, and deposits the DOLLARS into BFL's account. 

[1715381207]

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[MooC Tals]

1. This is too practical of a solution
2. This post has no cursing
3. This post lacks non-standard text size
4. This post provides a proactive solution to a problem

I think it's safe to say this is in the wrong thread! yuk yuk yuk

Back to the point. Fuck BFL, I want my coffee warmer!

Yes I was trying to remember what the hell I was smoking that day! It was totally inappropriate behavior. What was I thinking?

[Maged]

Stop blaming the moderators for other peoples stupidity, ...

We didn't. All we did was ask the moderators to give them a scammer tag.

553 users voted yes, 154 voted no so far.

A 78% majority is quite a strong message one might think.

22% against giving them the scammer tag is an even stronger message. Again, the majority does not make these decisions.

[MooC Tals]

Stop blaming the moderators for other peoples stupidity, ...

We didn't. All we did was ask the moderators to give them a scammer tag.

553 users voted yes, 154 voted no so far.

A 78% majority is quite a strong message one might think.

22% against giving them the scammer tag is an even stronger message. Again, the majority does not make these decisions.

In all honesty I am surprised how you moderators are ill-equipped to diffuse the mess here even after giving a solution that would benefit the forum and put you back in a neutral position. After all that said you poke the hornets nest again with a comment like this.

Embarrassed  

btw I selected no for scammer tag. What does that say about the solution I put forth.

[Maged]

Stop blaming the moderators for other peoples stupidity, ...

We didn't. All we did was ask the moderators to give them a scammer tag.

553 users voted yes, 154 voted no so far.

A 78% majority is quite a strong message one might think.

22% against giving them the scammer tag is an even stronger message. Again, the majority does not make these decisions.

In all honesty I am surprised how you moderators are ill-equipped to diffuse the mess here even after giving a solution that would benefit the forum and put you back in a neutral position. After all that said you poke the hornets nest again with a comment like this.

Embarrassed 

btw I selected no for scammer tag. What does that say about the solution I put forth.

We're happy to accept ads from anyone as long as they don't contain "lies, misrepresentation, or inappropriate language" as outlined in our ad auction guidelines. Personally, I think that it would be better not to have anti-BFL ads at all since that will just bring more attention to them. Instead, it might be better to out-bid them and, if you win, re-sell your slots to the next lowest non-BFL bidder for their bid amount and consider the difference as a donation to the forum. If BFL keeps bidding beyond what you can afford, at least you are costing them more money.

[Frizz23]

Stop blaming the moderators for other peoples stupidity, ...

We didn't. All we did was ask the moderators to give them a scammer tag.

553 users voted yes, 154 voted no so far.

A 78% majority is quite a strong message one might think.

22% against giving them the scammer tag is an even stronger message.

Care to explain?

Again, the majority does not make these decisions.

The majority has already made this decision. And you chose to ignore it.

With due respect, but you don't own this community. You are merely hosting it. The community can chose another host at any time.

[KSV]

you need a "dumbass tag" . . .

being late on the delivery is not the same as a scam. use a dictionary, maybe try reading once in a while.

[Maged]

Care to explain?

Sure. In order for the scammer tag to have any value at all, people need to see that we only use it in the absolute clearest of cases. When someone sees a scammer tag, they will then know that they shouldn't even try trading with that person. If we used the scammer tag in this case, 22% of the forum would believe that a scammer tag has no value and would ignore it in the future.

[MooC Tals]

Stop blaming the moderators for other peoples stupidity, ...

We didn't. All we did was ask the moderators to give them a scammer tag.

553 users voted yes, 154 voted no so far.

A 78% majority is quite a strong message one might think.

22% against giving them the scammer tag is an even stronger message. Again, the majority does not make these decisions.

In all honesty I am surprised how you moderators are ill-equipped to diffuse the mess here even after giving a solution that would benefit the forum and put you back in a neutral position. After all that said you poke the hornets nest again with a comment like this.

Embarrassed 

btw I selected no for scammer tag. What does that say about the solution I put forth.

We're happy to accept ads from anyone as long as they don't contain "lies, misrepresentation, or inappropriate language" as outlined in our ad auction guidelines. Personally, I think that it would be better not to have anti-BFL ads at all since that will just bring more attention to them. Instead, it might be better to out-bid them and, if you win, re-sell your slots to the next lowest non-BFL bidder for their bid amount and consider the difference as a donation to the forum. If BFL keeps bidding beyond what you can afford, at least you are costing them more money.

I would like to see an ad as an example of what it should look like that conforms to your ad auction guidelines put here so we can move forward. Possibly an escrow of your choice (if that is something you can offer)

If you are unwilling could this be a seen as a problem? You do realize I am trying to show you a way of saving face here as your actions show you are unwilling to work with people.

If BFL keeps bidding beyond what you can afford, at least you are costing them more money.

This was disturbing to say the least. You are willing to have honest money compete with dis-honest money. (thats just my opinion)
Something is wrong here when I read that.

This will bite you guys later when I see these comments from paid customers from other forums.

Biggest excuse and sappiest thing I've ever read for a business.

Many comments already made highlight why this is beyond acceptable. I really liked the McDonalds line comparison too which was made to defend BFL, but actually is inversed. That applies to almost every business... ever. Do you ever see a restaurant skip out on a table because "it would take too long to cook their food" as opposed to someone else?

"so after seeing the almost incessant carrying on about Jalapenos being shipped before Little Singles/Singles/Minirigs"
This goes SO beyond just jalapenos shipping before Singles and Minirigs. This goes back to FGPA and the amount of delays BFL had back then. They were terrible then, promised to shape up, had people clawing at their hands going "it will be better with ASIC, they'll be on time this time around!" Then, 5 months go by without a word other than "soon its coming soon, we got this". No information, left in the dark. Everyone. Jalapenos, Singles, Minirigs alike. Then, they miss their target shipment. Not just in October, but in November - December - January - Feb. With little explanation as to why. "Oh we had problems with X". So what steps did you take to fix it? "Oh, it was these people in China, they're holding us up in fab. Oh, these chips have problems. Oh, this power issue."

I recall "Its ok, we'll ship in April. Excepted April, late April, due May". Its now June. Only this past week has Jalapenos gone out in a significant number. And some Jalapeno customers are GETTING BENEFIT UPGRADES.

If you honestly have the audacity to defend a company that has screwed your pooch this many times over, seriously, get a grip. Excuses all down the line with deceiving information and complete blackouts. "Get your important announces off of a convoluted forum people for thousand dollar products! Forget emails. We don't do bulk emails." I've seen startup companies made up of 2-4 college kids with products that are $25~ have more communication and respect for their customers. Gaming companies and startups get axed every other month because of tiny screw ups and because they don't meet deadlines. Customers get up in arms about it and they win. A lot.
To get any news about BFL on a consistent basis, I have to subscribe to an UNNOFFICIAL TWITTER FEED. That is disgusting!

Stop trying to defend them with silly nonsense about keeping up appearances and "keeping good faith by releasing a product sooner rather than later." Thats the TIP OF THE ICEBERG.
BFL screws us over time and time again and we just let it slide with these excuses. I'm one of them too. I can't believe I let myself sit this long and do nothing. I used to defend BFL too. I never thought it would end up being this bad.

We're approaching the year of when people purchased originally. People were told this would be done no later than half a year after purchased. Then months went by without any information, or at least very little of it. Excuses

EDIT:
Another great thing BFL did was say "we hired people to work through the weekend to get these Jalapenos ready and shipped! ITS GOING TO BE A LONG WEEKEND GUYS!!! )
That never happened either. In fact, it was approximately 2 weeks after that before good ol' Josh ever responded with any significant update. And you think thats okay.

[Frizz23]

Care to explain?

Sure. In order for the scammer tag to have any value at all, people need to see that we only use it in the absolute clearest of cases. When someone sees a scammer tag, they will then know that they shouldn't even try trading with that person. If we used the scammer tag in this case, 22% of the forum would believe that a scammer tag has no value and would ignore it in the future.

22% is almost 1/4.
Almost 1/4 is the number of eligible voters that voted for Barak Obama.
Almost 1/4 was enough to give Obama the "President of the United States of America" tag.
Quote Maged: "22% of the forum world would believe that a scammer president tag has no value and would ignore it in the future.

So yes, Maged, I understand where your twisted logic comes ... 
Not.

[SLok]

Frizz23, aka Frizz Supertramp, you have over 50 accounts under different names here, your poll is a fraud, because I'm sure you used the lot to vote "yes".
You tried to cancel orders that weren't yours, you tried to get refunds for orders that weren't yours.
You pretended being a customer that had his orders lost, being refused a refund after requesting for it, you post pulled out of context BFL statements and bend them to your will, you make up accusations with falsified facts, dates and figures. You even accused me of harassing your family, falsely.
If you consider BFL being a scam, you should have pulled your order back, but you did not. Anyone being around here longer than a blue Monday knows your trade, it stinks.

[Xian01]

Frizz23, aka Frizz Supertramp, you have over 50 accounts under different names here, your poll is a fraud, because I'm sure you used the lot to vote "yes".
You tried to cancel orders that weren't yours, you tried to get refunds for orders that weren't yours.
You pretended being a customer that had his orders lost, being refused a refund after requesting for it, you post pulled out of context BFL statements and bend them to your will, you make up accusations with falsified facts, dates and figures. You even accused me of harassing your family, falsely.

 That's quite the list of accusations. Have sources out of curiosity ?

[Frizz23]

Slok, your postings are, as usual, full of half-truths - and blatant lies.

Frizz23, aka Frizz Supertramp, you have over 50 accounts under different names here, ...

I did open quite a few accounts over the past few months - not on Bitcointalk, but on BFL forums. Because as soon I post some inconvenient facts my messages get censored & my account gets deleted. Game of cat and mouse. I hope I saved at least some poor souls from falling for their "Order Now" & "in 14 days from now" scam.

... your poll is a fraud, because I'm sure you used the lot to vote "yes".

And I am sure a lot of you BFL shills voted "no" with all your fake accounts. So what? I'd be quite happy if one of the Mods could publish a list of all the users that participated in that poll.

You tried to cancel orders that weren't yours, you tried to get refunds for orders that weren't yours.
You pretended being a customer that had his orders lost, being refused a refund after requesting for it, you post pulled out of context BFL statements and bend them to your will, you make up accusations with falsified facts, dates and figures.

Blatant lies. IMHO you see a "Frizz" in each and every "suspicious" account - and blame it all on me. Paranoid much?

I challenge you: Provide some evidence for your accusations. If you prefer to continue this dispute publicly, feel free to do so. But please open a new thread for it - because the topic of this one is whether or not BFL should get a scammer tag.

You even accused me of harassing your family, falsely.

True, because you did. You bolstered that you tracked down my identity / doxed me [note: after me posting on BFLs Facebook page as 'Frizz Supertramp' ... you must be a real mastermind. not]. And you wrote that you sent messages to all my Facebook contacts and warned them about me.

Quite some psychopathic behavior if I may say so.

By the way: What to think of someone with a signature like yours:

Mentally disordered fanboy? Or paid shill ...

[Xian01]

True, because you did. You bolstered that you tracked down my identity / doxed me [note: after me posting on BFLs Facebook page as 'Frizz Supertramp' ... you must be a real mastermind. not]. And you wrote that you sent messages to all my Facebook contacts and warned them about me.

 Ugh. Doxing and harassing IRL is never cool. Poor form, SLok

[SLok]

Slok, your postings are, as usual, full of half-truths - and blatant lies.

Frizz23, aka Frizz Supertramp, you have over 50 accounts under different names here, ...

I did open quite a few accounts over the past few months - not on Bitcointalk, but on BFL forums. Because as soon I post some inconvenient facts my messages get censored & my account gets deleted. Game of cat and mouse. I hope I saved at least some poor souls from falling for their "Order Now" & "in 14 days from now" scam.

... your poll is a fraud, because I'm sure you used the lot to vote "yes".

And I am sure a lot of you BFL shills voted "no" with all your fake accounts. So what? I'd be quite happy if one of the Mods could publish a list of all the users that participated in that poll.

You tried to cancel orders that weren't yours, you tried to get refunds for orders that weren't yours.
You pretended being a customer that had his orders lost, being refused a refund after requesting for it, you post pulled out of context BFL statements and bend them to your will, you make up accusations with falsified facts, dates and figures.

Blatant lies. IMHO you see a "Frizz" in each and every "suspicious" account - and blame it all on me. Paranoid much?

I challenge you: Provide some evidence for your accusations. If you prefer to continue this dispute publicly, feel free to do so. But please open a new thread for it - because the topic of this one is whether or not BFL should get a scammer tag.

You even accused me of harassing your family, falsely.

True, because you did. You bolstered that you tracked down my identity / doxed me [note: after me posting on BFLs Facebook page as 'Frizz Supertramp' ... you must be a real mastermind. not]. And you wrote that you sent messages to all my Facebook contacts and warned them about me.

Quite some psychopathic behavior if I may say so.

By the way: What to think of someone with a signature like yours:

Mentally disordered fanboy? Or paid shill ...

So show me where I did that what you accuse me of, the red part, behavior that I detest btw.
You made most accounts in duplo, on the bfl forum and here. Willing to donate a btc to this forum for every account you made besides the Frizz23 one?
Appotomax? BitsnPieces? BFL_Mitt? BFL_Obama? BFL_Labrat? Radacoin? Inabra? Cpt. Nemo? Etcetera....

The sig, you asked that many times, obviously annoys you, that's the pay I get for it!

True, because you did. You bolstered that you tracked down my identity / doxed me [note: after me posting on BFLs Facebook page as 'Frizz Supertramp' ... you must be a real mastermind. not]. And you wrote that you sent messages to all my Facebook contacts and warned them about me.

 Ugh. Doxing and harassing IRL is never cool. Poor form, SLok

Believe what you will, I say he lies, he may now show where he based this on: And you wrote that you sent messages to all my Facebook contacts and warned them about me., and what information that was not already known and posted on this forum I doxed him with. I do not use facebook, I don't follow BFL's facebook, or anyone else's.

 

[MooC Tals]

Hey slok How much do you get paid for an ad? I would like to try it.

I don't think my Jala will make much soon at it is already going down to 14 dollars a day in 2 weeks after re-target.

[SLok]

Hey slok How much do you get paid for an ad? I would like to try it.

I don't think my Jala will make much soon at it is already going down to 14 dollars a day in 2 weeks after re-target.

It pays me.......nothing. So don't bother.
$14 a day is $420 a month, on a $149 or $249 investment. If you find a better investment, do the community a favor and let them know.

[Frizz23]

The sig, you asked that many times, obviously annoys you, that's the pay I get for it!

You are sick Slok, you know that?

True, because you did. You bolstered that you tracked down my identity / doxed me [note: after me posting on BFLs Facebook page as 'Frizz Supertramp' ... you must be a real mastermind. not]. And you wrote that you sent messages to all my Facebook contacts and warned them about me.


So show me where I did that what you accuse me of, the red part, behavior that I detest btw.

Slok, you quite frequently delete old messages to destroy evidence (very lame bahavior imho). I should have made a screenshot when you bolstered contacting my Facebook contacts - but I did not know back then what a coward you are.

Wanna have an example? Here:

Cool! Pictures! How is that BFL refund coming along, Supertramp?
...

author=SLok link=topic=150803.msg2174566#msg2174566 date=1368746560

msg2174566 was yours - now it's gone.



But it seems you feel more save on BFL forums - and feel less need to delete your postings.

Like this one here, your continuous doxing efforts:






You also forgot to delete one of your postings on Bitcointalk. I don't mind that you put photos online - but at least don't lie about it and don't deny your doxing attempts:


 

Believe what you will, I say he lies, ...

So who's the liar now?

And now I ask you again: Please provide some evidence four your outrageous accusation:

You tried to cancel orders that weren't yours, you tried to get refunds for orders that weren't yours.
You pretended being a customer that had his orders lost, being refused a refund after requesting for it, you post pulled out of context BFL statements and bend them to your will, you make up accusations with falsified facts, dates and figures.

[SLok]

The sig, you asked that many times, obviously annoys you, that's the pay I get for it!

You are sick Slok, you know that?

True, because you did. You bolstered that you tracked down my identity / doxed me [note: after me posting on BFLs Facebook page as 'Frizz Supertramp' ... you must be a real mastermind. not]. And you wrote that you sent messages to all my Facebook contacts and warned them about me.


So show me where I did that what you accuse me of, the red part, behavior that I detest btw.

Slok, you quite frequently delete old messages to destroy evidence (very lame bahavior imho). I should have made a screenshot when you bolstered contacting my Facebook contacts - but I did not know back then what a coward you are.

Wanna have an example? Here:

Cool! Pictures! How is that BFL refund coming along, Supertramp?
...

author=SLok link=topic=150803.msg2174566#msg2174566 date=1368746560

msg2174566 was yours - now it's gone.



But it seems you feel more save on BFL forums - and feel less need to delete your postings.

Like this one here, your continuous doxing efforts:






You also forgot to delete one of your postings on Bitcointalk. I don't mind that you put photos online - but at least don't lie about it and don't deny your doxing attempts:


 

Believe what you will, I say he lies, ...

So who's the liar now?

And now I ask you again: Please provide some evidence four your outrageous accusation:

You tried to cancel orders that weren't yours, you tried to get refunds for orders that weren't yours.
You pretended being a customer that had his orders lost, being refused a refund after requesting for it, you post pulled out of context BFL statements and bend them to your will, you make up accusations with falsified facts, dates and figures.

I am sick? Remember your asshamster sig? That was sick. About that deleted "nice, pictures" post, that was removed by a moderator, probably on your request?
It is here: http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y215/daargaje/planetFrizzS_zpsaec2d172.png

you quite frequently delete old messages[/color][/b] to destroy evidence (very lame bahavior imho). I should have made a screenshot when you bolstered contacting my Facebook contacts - but I did not know back then what a coward you are.

Lies, upon lies, upon lies. I never deleted or edited 1 single post here, or anywhere else. Stop making things up Frizz, I never contacted your contacts, who ever that may be, or bolstered to do so. Look elsewhere on this forum, maybe one of the many people you doxed or insulted over time?
Now you come complaining that I rednosed a picture of you that was floating on the forum already, as a reaction to you rednosing and doxing other people like that Dobbins guy?

[smoothie]

Stop blaming the moderators for other peoples stupidity, ...

We didn't. All we did was ask the moderators to give them a scammer tag.

553 users voted yes, 154 voted no so far.

A 78% majority is quite a strong message one might think.

22% against giving them the scammer tag is an even stronger message. Again, the majority does not make these decisions.

In all honesty I am surprised how you moderators are ill-equipped to diffuse the mess here even after giving a solution that would benefit the forum and put you back in a neutral position. After all that said you poke the hornets nest again with a comment like this.

Embarrassed  

btw I selected no for scammer tag. What does that say about the solution I put forth.

We're happy to accept ads from anyone as long as they don't contain "lies, misrepresentation, or inappropriate language" as outlined in our ad auction guidelines. Personally, I think that it would be better not to have anti-BFL ads at all since that will just bring more attention to them. Instead, it might be better to out-bid them and, if you win, re-sell your slots to the next lowest non-BFL bidder for their bid amount and consider the difference as a donation to the forum. If BFL keeps bidding beyond what you can afford, at least you are costing them more money.

Oh really?

BFL ads for months was "ORDER NOW BFL ASIC MINER BLAH BLAH"

Dont tell me that was not a lie or that what I am claiming in the above paraphrased quote is untrue.

I have tons of witnesses on this forum that can attest to the fact that this forum has ALLOWED BFL to post MISLEADING ADS which is essentially lying.