Open letter to Theymos regarding Butterfly Labs (BFL)

[Frizz23]

You have the constitution to post that you play the role of an asshole here on Bitcointalk.org to keep threads on top to have more attention brought to your website and in turn you get more pre-orders.

Do you even have a conscience or able to sympathize with people around you? Does everything in your life a goal to further yours. Do you even understand this or do you just make excuses for your self to make it bearable.

I could not live that way. Most people can't either.  

You just perfectly described a "Psychopath".

"Psychopathy is a personality or mental disorder characterized partly by antisocial behavior, a diminished capacity for remorse, and poor behavioral controls. ...

Psychopathy Checklist-Revised: Factors, Facets, and Items:
- Pathological lying
- Grandiose sense of self-worth
- Cunning/manipulative
- Lack of remorse or guilt
- Emotionally shallow
- Callous/lack of empathy
- Failure to accept responsibility for own actions
- Criminal versatility
- Parasitic lifestyle
- Lack of realistic, long-term goals
- Irresponsibility
..."

[Inaba]

Although I enjoy these little chats we have I really do wish you well as even though I hate what you have done (being untruthful or deceitful) and are doing I still feel for you as a person. I'm sure you will remember this for the rest of your life as it will carry with you in this field of work. Unless you take a different route of employment or you're a sociopath.

Please, by all means, demonstrate where I've been untruthful or deceitful.  No?  Why not?  Because it never happened.  You troll crew like to trot this out, but to date not a single one of you have been able to demonstrate any lies or deceit. 

I think you could remember this. I should book mark this page as it would be easier to find for you the next time you need a reminder as to why we are upset with your company.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=114329.msg2139947#msg2139947

As for the trol accusations I have resisted in posting large quantities of thread on your forum. I'm not surprised that I should get that from you. I was your customer before and now I'm a troll? I used to defend your company and still do as for a vote on this thread and still I am a troll.

Are you taking the night off?

I've asked you to demonstrate where we've been deceitful or untruthful.  You keep claiming it, but you have yet to demonstrate this.  Therefore your are a troll.  Making mistakes and overestimations are not lies or deceit.  What you are doing, constantly claiming lies and deceit without any proof, is a lie.  You are being untruthful and deceitful.

So telling me to order in October and telling me that I could possibly get my unit by Christmas was a mistake? What would be a lie in your fantasy world of yours. Contempt for a customer? A willing to misrepresent the truth to accomplish a goal.

1: to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive
2: to create a false or misleading impression 

Are you kidding? You expect me and everyone else to believe that every time you said in the week of you were actually going to deliver that week?

For a year?

Who was mislead in October? The advertisers that you paid money to? Did you tell them you were going to deliver units as soon as you had the chips? Now that you have chips you need a board?

a)How about the 1/3 rule did you not mislead/lie to your waiting customers into thinking you were going to ship them in a way that would satisfy all pre-orders but as we know now that Jalas are the only units that you can ship now? Do you even read what I post?

b)How can you ship the chips now in bulk and say with a straight face you have not lied to your customers about the 1/3 rule? You have chips now and you promised and gave the impression that if you pre ordered now that you could be seeing one in late Dec.

Do you have any idea what your doing there? or are you misrepresenting the truth?

You have the constitution to post that you play the role of an asshole here on Bitcointalk.org to keep threads on top to have more attention brought to your website and in turn you get more pre-orders.

Do you even have a conscience or able to sympathize with people around you? Does everything in your life a goal to further yours. Do you even understand this or do you just make excuses for your self to make it bearable.

I could not live that way. Most people can't either.   

Here, let me translate your whole post and summarize for people:

"BBbbbut but but I mean, but umm, but I mean this, but wait no, but I mean yes but no but yes but no..."

That's basically you're entire post in a nutshell.  I've challenged you to find a single instance where we've lied or been deceitful.  You waffled, hemmed and hawed, I challenged you again and this is what you come up with.  "But what I really meant was..."

You lied, face it.  You made a statement that you knew to be untrue at the time, I told you to prove it, you failed to do so, and now you're changing your tune.

[bitwhizz]

hey inaba aka needle dick
shut your piehole, ass hole,  you have let down every single one of your customers and you know it, you also know that if you don't push these jalas through the door before they are worthless due to difficulty, just about everyone will be asking for refunds,
you are possibly the worst operational manager or whatever you are, whatever you are your a failure at it,
your not smart, your not cool, and your not slick,
your a needle dick

[Kouye]

If I ordered a minirig a year ago due to ship 8 months ago, how long will it take for you to acknowledge I've been ripped off ?

Maged ? Theymos ?

Can you answer at least the above quoted question, please, if you're unable to answer about the %age threshold of forum trust it takes to tag BFL as scammer (78% being not enough) ?

[RoadStress]

If I ordered a minirig a year ago due to ship 8 months ago, how long will it take for you to acknowledge I've been ripped off ?

Maged ? Theymos ?

Can you answer at least the above quoted question, please, if you're unable to answer about the %age threshold of forum trust it takes to tag BFL as scammer (78% being not enough) ?

You haven't been scammed as long as you ask for a refund and you get it. So go ahead and ask for a refund. In my opinion you will NEVER get your Minirig. (i remember it as the 1500Ghash model. i may be wrong here)

[MooC Tals]

Here, let me translate your whole post and summarize for people:

"BBbbbut but but I mean, but umm, but I mean this, but wait no, but I mean yes but no but yes but no..."

That's basically you're entire post in a nutshell.  I've challenged you to find a single instance where we've lied or been deceitful.  You waffled, hemmed and hawed, I challenged you again and this is what you come up with.  "But what I really meant was..."

You lied, face it.  You made a statement that you knew to be untrue at the time, I told you to prove it, you failed to do so, and now you're changing your tune.

Inaba I personally wish you well. I really do. I believe I am at this point wasting my time trying to show the errors of your ways. If you can not understand why others are upset with you then I can't help you. I understand you better than you would think. I can read people very well and 99% of the time I can peg some one on the spot. I do read body language and most of the times I find its useful in many applications. Sales people understand what I am saying. Cops also are great at it and get a feeling for this. Poker players are classic experts as well. I also understand how public relations work and the strategies of showing you're vulnerable to gain sympathy and the use of anger to deflect and mislead topics. To ask the same questions to ware down your adversaries and make them lose patience and show anger to gain sympathy from other. I don't play those games. I understand those games. You are not that good and you will be cut loose if this turns bad. You do know that.

Naturally you will not agree with what I said but that does not change the fact that it is written here and you have read it. Thats all I need, your attention. I am done and I now will sit back and follow your progress. I will put my 2 cents in but no more cat and mouse games.    

I also don't want to put out an image that you are the victim here being harassed by trolls to have you look good on these forums. You know your a liar. I know your a liar and others that can figure this out also know. The ones that don't see it, well they will find out later and hopefully learn from their mistakes. After all its all mistakes no deceit.

Good luck and thank you for this learning experience.

[Kouye]

In my opinion you will NEVER get your Minirig.

And... since I may get refunded after a year of waiting, knowing I will NEVER GET what I ordered, this is not a scam ? Really ?
Well, this gives me a lot of business ideas, alll of sudden. 

[MooC Tals]

In my opinion you will NEVER get your Minirig.

And... since I may get refunded after a year of waiting, knowing I will NEVER GET what I ordered, this is not a scam ? Really ?
Well, this gives me a lot of business ideas, alll of sudden. 

You see now? That is the scam, there lies the rub. No taxes have to be paid and no interest. The only cost is to keep track of all orders and pay the people to shuffle the paper work. The products are developed with the money coming in and when people hang in there they piss off older customers by just telling them to get a refund. When that is exactly what the game is and exactly what gets them off the hook. Later on raise prices to keep the perpetual pre-order game going. Its quite brilliant and impossible to figure out before hand.

Its all clean and it IS all legal.

Are we all seeing this now?

It makes sense why they are so eager to refund your money if you complain about them publicly. However if the price of bitcoin drops then we could see an interesting development sooner than later.

[Inaba]

Here, let me translate your whole post and summarize for people:

"BBbbbut but but I mean, but umm, but I mean this, but wait no, but I mean yes but no but yes but no..."

That's basically you're entire post in a nutshell.  I've challenged you to find a single instance where we've lied or been deceitful.  You waffled, hemmed and hawed, I challenged you again and this is what you come up with.  "But what I really meant was..."

You lied, face it.  You made a statement that you knew to be untrue at the time, I told you to prove it, you failed to do so, and now you're changing your tune.

Inaba I personally wish you well. I really do. I believe I am at this point wasting my time trying to show the errors of your ways. If you can not understand why others are upset with you then I can't help you. I understand you better than you would think. I can read people very well and 99% of the time I can peg some one on the spot. I do read body language and most of the times I find its useful in many applications. Sales people understand what I am saying. Cops also are great at it and get a feeling for this. Poker players are classic experts as well. I also understand how public relations work and the strategies of showing you're vulnerable to gain sympathy and the use of anger to deflect and mislead topics. To ask the same questions to ware down your adversaries and make them lose patience and show anger to gain sympathy from other. I don't play those games. I understand those games. You are not that good and you will be cut loose if this turns bad. You do know that.

Naturally you will not agree with what I said but that does not change the fact that it is written here and you have read it. Thats all I need, your attention. I am done and I now will sit back and follow your progress. I will put my 2 cents in but no more cat and mouse games.   

I also don't want to put out an image that you are the victim here being harassed by trolls to have you look good on these forums. You know your a liar. I know your a liar and others that can figure this out also know. The ones that don't see it, well they will find out later and hopefully learn from their mistakes. After all its all mistakes no deceit.

Good luck and thank you for this learning experience.

Sorry man, the only one lying here is you.  I've demonstrated that you have lied, pointed it out, provided links, etc...  I have asked you to demonstrate where I have lied and you have yet to produce any proof.  I've produced proof, you haven't... that would seem to be pretty conclusive who the untrustworthy/liar is, I'd take a long, hard look in the mirror at this point, if I were you.

[MooC Tals]

Here, let me translate your whole post and summarize for people:

"BBbbbut but but I mean, but umm, but I mean this, but wait no, but I mean yes but no but yes but no..."

That's basically you're entire post in a nutshell.  I've challenged you to find a single instance where we've lied or been deceitful.  You waffled, hemmed and hawed, I challenged you again and this is what you come up with.  "But what I really meant was..."

You lied, face it.  You made a statement that you knew to be untrue at the time, I told you to prove it, you failed to do so, and now you're changing your tune.

Inaba I personally wish you well. I really do. I believe I am at this point wasting my time trying to show the errors of your ways. If you can not understand why others are upset with you then I can't help you. I understand you better than you would think. I can read people very well and 99% of the time I can peg some one on the spot. I do read body language and most of the times I find its useful in many applications. Sales people understand what I am saying. Cops also are great at it and get a feeling for this. Poker players are classic experts as well. I also understand how public relations work and the strategies of showing you're vulnerable to gain sympathy and the use of anger to deflect and mislead topics. To ask the same questions to ware down your adversaries and make them lose patience and show anger to gain sympathy from other. I don't play those games. I understand those games. You are not that good and you will be cut loose if this turns bad. You do know that.

Naturally you will not agree with what I said but that does not change the fact that it is written here and you have read it. Thats all I need, your attention. I am done and I now will sit back and follow your progress. I will put my 2 cents in but no more cat and mouse games.   

I also don't want to put out an image that you are the victim here being harassed by trolls to have you look good on these forums. You know your a liar. I know your a liar and others that can figure this out also know. The ones that don't see it, well they will find out later and hopefully learn from their mistakes. After all its all mistakes no deceit.

Good luck and thank you for this learning experience.

Sorry man, the only one lying here is you.  I've demonstrated that you have lied, pointed it out, provided links, etc...  I have asked you to demonstrate where I have lied and you have yet to produce any proof.  I've produced proof, you haven't... that would seem to be pretty conclusive who the untrustworthy/liar is, I'd take a long, hard look in the mirror at this point, if I were you.

Like I have said before I have the luxury of sitting back and watching. You on the other hand need to perform. I will enjoy the show. I no longer need to prove anything at least to you.

If you were me, you would feel bad for your situation. tick tock

[wrenchmonkey]

In my opinion you will NEVER get your Minirig.

And... since I may get refunded after a year of waiting, knowing I will NEVER GET what I ordered, this is not a scam ? Really ?
Well, this gives me a lot of business ideas, alll of sudden.  

There are other reasons to believe that the minirig won't happen, other than the overly-used "Scam" accusation. And one person's speculation that it won't is hardly a firm basis for a scammer tag. A few weeks ago, I was pretty sure that bit-fury wasn't gonna come to fruition either, but it's looking more and more like I was wrong about that every day. Opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one, and some stink worse than others.

The answer has already been given, as to when you can call it a scam. If a user requests a refund and doesn't get it, you can call for a "scammer" tag. If you never request a refund, you can continue to wait patiently with everybody else, until BFL fills the order as soon as they can.

If you're gonna talk the talk, then walk the walk. If you want it declared a scam, request a refund, and if you don't get it, request a scammer tag. If you actually believe it's a scam, you should have requested a refund a LOOOONG time ago. Otherwise, STFU and wait like everybody else.

[Syke]

I have asked you to demonstrate where I have lied and you have yet to produce any proof. 

Here's just the most recent one.

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/3026-forced-refunds.html#post37336

BFL is not doing forced refunds on anyone.

BFL forced a refund on Xian01.

[TomUnderSea]

The Forum needs a range of tags.

Including  a "stupidity" tag.

Can I get one that says "Cranky Curmudgeon"?

[SLok]

I have asked you to demonstrate where I have lied and you have yet to produce any proof.

Here's just the most recent one.

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/3026-forced-refunds.html#post37336

BFL is not doing forced refunds on anyone.

BFL forced a refund on Xian01.

You know well that comment was made to someone who participated in a group buy, which claimed the guy actually handling the financials for that group buy said BFL did, and was never heard of again, ....

Has anyone experienced this situation? That BFL forced them to take a refund on their pre-order? I am part of a group that made a decent amount of pre-orders from the the start of pre-order time through to March 2013. The person in charge of the orders informed us at the beginning of May that they had received BFL's ultimatum email that said agree to the current unit specs or get a refund. We were given the impression that this needed within 10 days. We then never heard from the person in charge for about three weeks.

When he did reappear he assured us that BFL had been answered and everything was good, we would be getting our units. Now, as of this morning we are being told that BFL has written us and told us that BFL is forcing us to take a refund on some of our units (all Singles) and that they will not reinstate the orders unless we pay the new higher pricing.

the comment right after:

BFL is not doing forced refunds on anyone.

Whoever you purchased through is lying to you.

Weak, Syke.

[Operatr]

Here, let me translate your whole post and summarize for people:

"BBbbbut but but I mean, but umm, but I mean this, but wait no, but I mean yes but no but yes but no..."

That's basically you're entire post in a nutshell.  I've challenged you to find a single instance where we've lied or been deceitful.  You waffled, hemmed and hawed, I challenged you again and this is what you come up with.  "But what I really meant was..."

You lied, face it.  You made a statement that you knew to be untrue at the time, I told you to prove it, you failed to do so, and now you're changing your tune.

Inaba I personally wish you well. I really do. I believe I am at this point wasting my time trying to show the errors of your ways. If you can not understand why others are upset with you then I can't help you. I understand you better than you would think. I can read people very well and 99% of the time I can peg some one on the spot. I do read body language and most of the times I find its useful in many applications. Sales people understand what I am saying. Cops also are great at it and get a feeling for this. Poker players are classic experts as well. I also understand how public relations work and the strategies of showing you're vulnerable to gain sympathy and the use of anger to deflect and mislead topics. To ask the same questions to ware down your adversaries and make them lose patience and show anger to gain sympathy from other. I don't play those games. I understand those games. You are not that good and you will be cut loose if this turns bad. You do know that.

Naturally you will not agree with what I said but that does not change the fact that it is written here and you have read it. Thats all I need, your attention. I am done and I now will sit back and follow your progress. I will put my 2 cents in but no more cat and mouse games.    

I also don't want to put out an image that you are the victim here being harassed by trolls to have you look good on these forums. You know your a liar. I know your a liar and others that can figure this out also know. The ones that don't see it, well they will find out later and hopefully learn from their mistakes. After all its all mistakes no deceit.

Good luck and thank you for this learning experience.

Sorry man, the only one lying here is you.  I've demonstrated that you have lied, pointed it out, provided links, etc...  I have asked you to demonstrate where I have lied and you have yet to produce any proof.  I've produced proof, you haven't... that would seem to be pretty conclusive who the untrustworthy/liar is, I'd take a long, hard look in the mirror at this point, if I were you.

YOU have yet to produce any proof that BFL actually intends to deliver on it's promises. Why don't you stop chewing members of this forum for pointing out your failings as a person and as company and give us something real instead of dicking us around. The burden of proof is on you, not us. Companies that deliver what they promise don't have the backlash you do, go ask ASICMiner how they are doing customer wise. There doesn't seem to be any problems there because they actually did what they said they would.

You are a liar, and just an asshole otherwise.

[MooC Tals]

I have asked you to demonstrate where I have lied and you have yet to produce any proof.

Here's just the most recent one.

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/3026-forced-refunds.html#post37336

BFL is not doing forced refunds on anyone.

BFL forced a refund on Xian01.

You know well that comment was made to someone who participated in a group buy, which claimed the guy actually handling the financials for that group buy said BFL did, and was never heard of again, ....

Has anyone experienced this situation? That BFL forced them to take a refund on their pre-order? I am part of a group that made a decent amount of pre-orders from the the start of pre-order time through to March 2013. The person in charge of the orders informed us at the beginning of May that they had received BFL's ultimatum email that said agree to the current unit specs or get a refund. We were given the impression that this needed within 10 days. We then never heard from the person in charge for about three weeks.

When he did reappear he assured us that BFL had been answered and everything was good, we would be getting our units. Now, as of this morning we are being told that BFL has written us and told us that BFL is forcing us to take a refund on some of our units (all Singles) and that they will not reinstate the orders unless we pay the new higher pricing.

the comment right after:

BFL is not doing forced refunds on anyone.

Whoever you purchased through is lying to you.

Weak, Syke.

SLok you really lick ass well. I shall call you lickabatti from here on.

Xian01 was forced to eat a refund as a punishment. Thats a fact! if he deserved it is another story.

Still remains that BFL can and will force a refund if they choose to.

In that case I would be pretty sure it was a third party who chose not to pay the updated delivery prices not BFL cancelling his order.

To argue this would be a waste of my time however to bring back to the topic of being caught in a lie. BFL did send out emails that forced people to confirm on to the new customer que database thingy.

Many had to confirm their orders and as a result had to accept updated delivery costs and many chose not to accept the up in fees. I believe it was called being in limbo.

If you chose not to confirm your order it would not be cancelled however the delivery of the unit was technically held back until you confirmed your order which in turn required you to accept the new delivery price. Technically not cancelled just like technically not a liar.

Some of the most disgusting behavour for a company with the least amout of compassion or morality. After all it is BFL and should not surprise and seasoned veteran here that can think critically.

So folkes hows that for diabolical. Impressive work!!!

Right?

@Operatr SLok is also earning his keep on the BFL forum backing up Inabi-lity to tell the truth.

[SLok]

I have asked you to demonstrate where I have lied and you have yet to produce any proof.

Here's just the most recent one.

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/3026-forced-refunds.html#post37336

BFL is not doing forced refunds on anyone.

BFL forced a refund on Xian01.

You know well that comment was made to someone who participated in a group buy, which claimed the guy actually handling the financials for that group buy said BFL did, and was never heard of again, ....

Has anyone experienced this situation? That BFL forced them to take a refund on their pre-order? I am part of a group that made a decent amount of pre-orders from the the start of pre-order time through to March 2013. The person in charge of the orders informed us at the beginning of May that they had received BFL's ultimatum email that said agree to the current unit specs or get a refund. We were given the impression that this needed within 10 days. We then never heard from the person in charge for about three weeks.

When he did reappear he assured us that BFL had been answered and everything was good, we would be getting our units. Now, as of this morning we are being told that BFL has written us and told us that BFL is forcing us to take a refund on some of our units (all Singles) and that they will not reinstate the orders unless we pay the new higher pricing.

the comment right after:

BFL is not doing forced refunds on anyone.

Whoever you purchased through is lying to you.

Weak, Syke.

SLok you really lick ass well. I shall call you lickabatti from here on.

Weak, as ever.

Frizz23 posting the diagnose his shrink gave after he had nothing left to defend his lies and rigged poll (as an excuse??), Mooc_tals making things up, he has a jalapeno on order that won't make him money, oh no, he cancelled it already, and don't know what to come up with now other than attacks and more lies, that's it?

All that was asked;



 where's the: had to accept updated delivery costs and many chose not to accept the up in fees.?

[MooC Tals]

Weak, as ever.

Frizz23 posting the diagnose his shrink gave after he had nothing left to defend his lies and rigged poll (as an excuse??), Mooc_tals making things up, he has a jalapeno on order that won't make him money, oh no, he cancelled it already, and don't know what to come up with now other than attacks and more lies, that's it?

All that was asked;



 where's the: had to accept updated delivery costs and many chose not to accept the up in fees.?

I would like to see your quote here verifying with no doubt that BFL have not coerced existing clients to confirm their orders(1) and the price for the delivery of the orders have not increased(2).

1) Customers that refused to confirm would be delivered to.
2) No additional shipping costs were added

Can you verify that has not happened. After you answer that I will waste my time looking for the information for you.

[MooC Tals]

I have asked you to demonstrate where I have lied and you have yet to produce any proof.

Here's just the most recent one.

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/3026-forced-refunds.html#post37336

BFL is not doing forced refunds on anyone.

BFL forced a refund on Xian01.

You know well that comment was made to someone who participated in a group buy, which claimed the guy actually handling the financials for that group buy said BFL did, and was never heard of again, ....

Has anyone experienced this situation? That BFL forced them to take a refund on their pre-order? I am part of a group that made a decent amount of pre-orders from the the start of pre-order time through to March 2013. The person in charge of the orders informed us at the beginning of May that they had received BFL's ultimatum email that said agree to the current unit specs or get a refund. We were given the impression that this needed within 10 days. We then never heard from the person in charge for about three weeks.

When he did reappear he assured us that BFL had been answered and everything was good, we would be getting our units. Now, as of this morning we are being told that BFL has written us and told us that BFL is forcing us to take a refund on some of our units (all Singles) and that they will not reinstate the orders unless we pay the new higher pricing.

the comment right after:

BFL is not doing forced refunds on anyone.

Whoever you purchased through is lying to you.

Weak, Syke.

SLok you really lick ass well. I shall call you lickabatti from here on.

Weak, as ever.

Frizz23 posting the diagnose his shrink gave after he had nothing left to defend his lies and rigged poll (as an excuse??), Mooc_tals making things up, he has a jalapeno on order that won't make him money, oh no, he cancelled it already, and don't know what to come up with now other than attacks and more lies, that's it?

All that was asked;



 where's the: had to accept updated delivery costs and many chose not to accept the up in fees.?

Ok I was wrong there. I admit that! The confirmation was to power specs that needed to be acknowledged.

[RoadStress]

I think I posted this before, but can you imagine in this super connected social media world if a prospect employer searches for Josh' name and find hundreds of people trolling at the guy for his ineptitude?
He better pray BFL does well because the only job he'll get besides BFL will be recycling electronic waste in a third world country!

Don't worry there are many more scammers around the world besides the convicted Sonny Vleisides that would need his services