[OFFICIAL]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading

[noggin-scratcher]

That would be good. Now let;s say i want to sell 100 btc 300 and put stop loss at 280 to avoid margin call at 250. Now the market moves to 300 but only 1 bitcoin is sold. My stop order gets canceled. Market moves down and i get margin called. That is nonsense

To increase the nonsensicality, imagine placing 100 pairs of OCO orders for 1 coin each. Then the market moves to 300, 1 sell is executed, 1 stop is cancelled, the other 99 remain in place as desired. Normally orders of the same type combine, but not when "Cancel the Other" is an all-or-nothing action triggered by partial execution.

[Ente]

..so creating 100 identical 1 BTC OCO orders is the way to go?
Both "cancel only when the full sum is reached" and "cancel when the order is partially filled" is worse than that. Best would be a checkbox "partially", "full" and "corresponding sum" I'd say.

Ente

[Bagpipe]

Hey people!
I didn't read through the last 100 or so pages, but plan to stay updated from now on again :-)

- Since ages, the two balance overviews are mismatched: the overview in the top right corner is fine, the overview in "manage wallets" is wrong.

- I just found out that the "transfer funds" window is borked: it uses the "european" style separators, and interprets "1,000.00" as "1" and "1.000,00" as "1000". Every single place on BitFinex does display and interpret it the "US" style.

Those two combined took me a good while to figure out why the heck I can't transfer the sums I plan to.
Please fix this.

Ente

This has never happened to me...we will look into it.

When you are at it, discover why the "market" selection stops working aftyer a time and it starts placing LIMIT orders, will you? It is VERY VERY VERY annoying and damn bad!
Also, your policy on order filling, stop orders and such needs to be published.

P.S. I cancelled a market sell order 30 seconds after being PLACED, as I did not want to get a random result.

[Bagpipe]

You DO owe me an apology.
Bitfinex representatives claim that isers have NO RIGHT to timely and accurate data. I'm okay with that fraud.
What I'm not okay with is you telling me to *fuck off* when I place an order. Why?
I cancel all the orders and try to do a market order and get "not enough balance" message?!
Okay, I reload the page and voila! Uncancelled orders remain!
So I cancel those as well, but you know what. Time has passed, market has moved. By the time I am able to make a move, you have cost me 10%.

Tell me again: why do I make volume on your site?

[mjr]

Things like stop losses and OCO are helpful, and can be useful, but they won't replace a full API bot...there is only so much logic that it pays to put into an order type, so, you might be approaching the limit of those order types usefulness, and might want to look into some sort of automated trading strategy if your needs are growing more complex. I understand your scenario, and it might be worthwhile to look into this, but that is really more like "cancel this other order, and place another order for a dynamic amount of bitcoin", because we don't really support updating an order at the moment (I think that might change soon).

So, I would say that there is no substitute for actually just monitoring the positions yourself, but, it can be a  worthwhile tradeoff to sacrifice some those benefits for the convenience of not having to be there. One thing you could try would be to split up a big order like that into a bunch of smaller orders, where if they are linked correctly, you only have a small worry about partial fills.

[mjr]

You DO owe me an apology.
Bitfinex representatives claim that isers have NO RIGHT to timely and accurate data. I'm okay with that fraud.
What I'm not okay with is you telling me to *fuck off* when I place an order. Why?
I cancel all the orders and try to do a market order and get "not enough balance" message?!
Okay, I reload the page and voila! Uncancelled orders remain!
So I cancel those as well, but you know what. Time has passed, market has moved. By the time I am able to make a move, you have cost me 10%.

Tell me again: why do I make volume on your site?

Technically, if you are that unhappy, and have such a negative opinion of us, YOU should explain why you make volume on our site.

Edit: Not because we don't want you to continue using us, but because I have no way of explaining your cost benefit analysis, and no knowledge of why you continue to make that choice.

[mjr]

..so creating 100 identical 1 BTC OCO orders is the way to go?
Both "cancel only when the full sum is reached" and "cancel when the order is partially filled" is worse than that. Best would be a checkbox "partially", "full" and "corresponding sum" I'd say.

Ente

Yeah, I have no idea why I would want to set up an order that would dump 100 coins at all once...I don't think this would really help my bottom line, as I would probably push prices down much lower than if i I manually managed that position.

As I said in another post, there is a point where you are managing a position of a large enough size, and your requirements are complex enough that it makes sense to actually build a bot using the API (or hire someone to build a bot), that can be tailored to your exact needs.

[nrd525]

Bitfinex is currently running a bit slow (page load times are 2-5 times slower than normal).  Probably due to the high volume (around 10k in the past 20 minutes).

[Sukrim]

Since someone again complained on reddit about low interest rates, I thought a bit and my guess is that they are partially so low because they only represent the percieved difference in risk between storing coins on Bitfinex and offering others to trade with these coins there.

What if swap returns in any currency would be split in 2 parts (50/50, 80/20...?) - one part still going to the liquidity provider but the other part to all current holders of that currency, no matter if it is actually used or just passively waiting in orders?

How would such a system change incentives to put good fixed rate orders instead of just fighting over scraps? While liquidity providers would earn less in the beginning, maybe rates would go up (traders with large positions would also get some daily swap returns after all) in the long run?

Anyone interested in calculating equilibria depending on risk assessments of holding a balance vs. offering it for trading?

[noggin-scratcher]

What if swap returns in any currency would be split in 2 parts (50/50, 80/20...?) - one part still going to the liquidity provider but the other part to all current holders of that currency, no matter if it is actually used or just passively waiting in orders?

I'm not sure that changes the incentives - you can't affect what the 'passive' payout is by your choices, so the individually optimal strategy would be the same as it is now. It'd be nice to get a passive payout, but I can't see it convincing people that they don't also want to chase the "scraps"; they'll always do better overall by doing so.

I suppose it could push the return from low-rate swaps lower still, and thereby make them not worth the time/hassle of bothering with, but the market has always looked like there's a lot of folks lending in a highly automated way, which isn't a lot of invested effort in the first place.

[Bagpipe]

I place market orders:
4 out of 10 market orders executed, the rest was just non-existent. What IS going on?
Do I have to check what you are doing by reloading the page after each and every click?

People say banks are evil. I do not believe that anymore.
I keep 100-200 usd in my bank. I pay them several dollars a month in total.
When I had a request sent to them, they immediately called me that they are analyzing it and paying attention to it; later they called how I was satisfied with their response.

I gave bitfinex thousands of dollars and they treat me like shit. Customers do not have rights to timely information, proper order execution, not they have access to knowledge HOW ON EARTH their orders will be processed (it's a mystery), neither customers can have a peek at the ownership structure and/or internal dealings/working of the company. Even the order that just executed will appear in your listing maybe after 60 seconds sometimes. A lot of space for fraud, for sure.

Bernie Madoff, anyone?

[Bagpipe]

Yeah, I have no idea why I would want to set up an order that would dump 100 coins at all once...I don't think this would really help my bottom line, as I would probably push prices down much lower than if i I manually managed that position.

As I said in another post, there is a point where you are managing a position of a large enough size, and your requirements are complex enough that it makes sense to actually build a bot using the API (or hire someone to build a bot), that can be tailored to your exact needs.

You mean something like MT4 that is connected to btc-e API? That one is available on btc-e, and why people use your site? Because they wanted to avoid using machine API. So you say it is the BEST option out there there is? I say okay, if that is what you recommend, I will have to use that. Specialized computer with specialized software using leveraged trading interface and there will be no need to use your service.

[davidorentol]

hey guys  I have active margin position long from 220$ .It's possible to put stop /222 $ for example/ on this position ?

[8fold]

hey guys   I have active margin position long from 220$ .It's possible to put stop /222 $ for example/ on this position ?

Yes, put a SELL STOP order at $221.99 (for example) with the amount equal to your long position. When the highest bid price gets to $221.99 (or lower), it will execute a market sell order for the amount you specified.

And good long entry, by the way!

[Bagpipe]

hey guys  I have active margin position long from 220$ .It's possible to put stop /222 $ for example/ on this position ?

Just what he said, but remember, your stop order will be executed AS MARKET ORDER, so you might end up selling your STOP at far less than you imagine. This is due to two reasons, one is that the orderbook is thin and the distance between buy and sell walls may be large. The second reason is that your stop order may be not the only thing executing and other stop orders and market orders amy take priority, but we will never know for sure as mjr refuses to discuss or reveal what is the order priority processing. I had to find out by expensive trial and error. The third reason is that the size of your order may cause undesired slippage on thin orderbook walls.

That's it. Wait, no, it is not. You have the buy/sell fees and/or lending fees and if you look at it: 0.4% on both way limit/stop orders, so, your method of making a stop order at 1% gain will almost certainly lead to a loss. Work with 4% movements at least, even 2% movements may not cover the common losses.

[HowardF]

That's it. Wait, no, it is not. You have the buy/sell fees and/or lending fees and if you look at it: 0.4% on both way limit/stop orders, so, your method of making a stop order at 1% gain will almost certainly lead to a loss. Work with 4% movements at least, even 2% movements may not cover the common losses.

Bagpipe, I think we all get that you're not happy with Bitfinex.  Maybe its time to move on to greener pastures?

[davidorentol]

hey guys  I have active margin position long from 220$ .It's possible to put stop /222 $ for example/ on this position ?

Just what he said, but remember, your stop order will be executed AS MARKET ORDER, so you might end up selling your STOP at far less than you imagine. This is due to two reasons, one is that the orderbook is thin and the distance between buy and sell walls may be large. The second reason is that your stop order may be not the only thing executing and other stop orders and market orders amy take priority, but we will never know for sure as mjr refuses to discuss or reveal what is the order priority processing. I had to find out by expensive trial and error. The third reason is that the size of your order may cause undesired slippage on thin orderbook walls.

That's it. Wait, no, it is not. You have the buy/sell fees and/or lending fees and if you look at it: 0.4% on both way limit/stop orders, so, your method of making a stop order at 1% gain will almost certainly lead to a loss. Work with 4% movements at least, even 2% movements may not cover the common losses.

wow thanks

[Bagpipe]

hey guys  I have active margin position long from 220$ .It's possible to put stop /222 $ for example/ on this position ?

Just what he said, but remember, your stop order will be executed AS MARKET ORDER, so you might end up selling your STOP at far less than you imagine. This is due to two reasons, one is that the orderbook is thin and the distance between buy and sell walls may be large. The second reason is that your stop order may be not the only thing executing and other stop orders and market orders amy take priority, but we will never know for sure as mjr refuses to discuss or reveal what is the order priority processing. I had to find out by expensive trial and error. The third reason is that the size of your order may cause undesired slippage on thin orderbook walls.

That's it. Wait, no, it is not. You have the buy/sell fees and/or lending fees and if you look at it: 0.4% on both way limit/stop orders, so, your method of making a stop order at 1% gain will almost certainly lead to a loss. Work with 4% movements at least, even 2% movements may not cover the common losses.

wow thanks

And now imagine how many people did not know that, as there is no binding description of how execution of orders works. I had to find out by trial and loss. But I heard about sited that allow you limit stop orders in addition to market stop orders. And just as mjr said: do not try to make volume, trade sparsely, change position once per 7 days or so, they are not happy with the fees either, as you heard.

[DoubleSwapper]

The display of swap funds is glitched. The numbers change upon reload and offers keep appearing and disappearing. Please look into that.

EDIT: Seems like it already works normally again.

[camolist]

The display of swap funds is glitched. The numbers change upon reload and offers keep appearing and disappearing. Please look into that.

EDIT: Seems like it already works normally again.

i seen that last night as well
everything seems to be fine now