[OFFICIAL]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading

[0x3d]

Anyone else seeing sometimes weird and wrong numbers on Bitfinex' REST API?

Specifically this is about https://api.bitfinex.com/v1/pubticker/btcusd

Now that the price is currently hovering on low volume around 7110 that API endpoint sometimes returns the correct price value, sometimes a value between 120~150$ above the real price.

Correct:

Code:

{
"mid": "7118.15",
"bid": "7116.8",
"ask": "7119.5",
"last_price": "7116.8",
"low": "6930.1",
"high": "7348.4",
"volume": "50659.55555046",
"timestamp": "1509794526.055699"
}

{
"mid": "7112.55",
"bid": "7111.7",
"ask": "7113.4",
"last_price": "7113.7",
"low": "6930.1",
"high": "7348.4",
"volume": "50559.01356782",
"timestamp": "1509794600.6583316"
}

Not so right:

Code:

{
"mid": "7247.25",
"bid": "7247.2",
"ask": "7247.3",
"last_price": "7247.2",
"low": "6820.0",
"high": "7448.0",
"volume": "63495.49522234",
"timestamp": "1509794571.6418443"
}

{
"mid": "7241.95",
"bid": "7241.9",
"ask": "7242.0",
"last_price": "7241.9",
"low": "6820.0",
"high": "7448.0",
"volume": "63507.08039514",
"timestamp": "1509794579.0906284"
}

{
"mid": "7260.05",
"bid": "7259.4",
"ask": "7260.7",
"last_price": "7260.6",
"low": "6820.0",
"high": "7448.0",
"volume": "63486.30370678",
"timestamp": "1509794588.0283325"
}

Please note the returned timestamp values, all these have been returned within a timespan of about a minute and the price has been nowhere near 7250. Any clue what's going on there?

Edit: Seems fixed now that the price is again above the wrong value.

[CHKALOV]

Who understood or from the experience of past forks: if I borrow USD (not bitcoins) and buy bitcoins before fork will I receive b2x tokens?
I read this statement https://www.bitfinex.com/posts/223  but it is clearly only about the borrowing of bitcoins.

[TheQuin]

Who understood or from the experience of past forks: if I borrow USD (not bitcoins) and buy bitcoins before fork will I receive b2x tokens?
I read this statement https://www.bitfinex.com/posts/223  but it is clearly only about the borrowing of bitcoins.

If you borrow USD to buy Bitcoins then at the time of the fork you will own those Bitcoins and therefore get the B2X tokens.
From the statement you linked to:

Specifically, in the case of a hard fork event, lenders will receive both BTC and B2X. Anyone that is short BTC/USD or long any BTC trading pair (ETH/BTC, LTC/BTC, etc.) will owe B2X to the lender, effectively making the user short B2X. An exception is being made where BTC is borrowed but is not in use as financing collateral. In that case, B2X will accrue to the lender. Users that are financed long BTC/USD or short any BTC trading pair will receive B2X.

I bolded the bit that confirms that. If you buy BTC in a trade then you are long BTC in trading parlance.

The only situation that it works the other way round is where someone borrows BTC, in this case, the B2x belongs to the lender.

[CHKALOV]

Who understood or from the experience of past forks: if I borrow USD (not bitcoins) and buy bitcoins before fork will I receive b2x tokens?
I read this statement https://www.bitfinex.com/posts/223  but it is clearly only about the borrowing of bitcoins.

If you borrow USD to buy Bitcoins then at the time of the fork you will own those Bitcoins and therefore get the B2X tokens.
From the statement you linked to:

Specifically, in the case of a hard fork event, lenders will receive both BTC and B2X. Anyone that is short BTC/USD or long any BTC trading pair (ETH/BTC, LTC/BTC, etc.) will owe B2X to the lender, effectively making the user short B2X. An exception is being made where BTC is borrowed but is not in use as financing collateral. In that case, B2X will accrue to the lender. Users that are financed long BTC/USD or short any BTC trading pair will receive B2X.

I bolded the bit that confirms that. If you buy BTC in a trade then you are long BTC in trading parlance.

The only situation that it works the other way round is where someone borrows BTC, in this case, the B2x belongs to the lender.

Thank you for the answer, but I'm not a native english speaker. Are you sure that "financed" means buying on borrowed funds, but not borrowing funds?

[TheQuin]

Thank you for the answer, but I'm not a native english speaker. Are you sure that "financed" means buying on borrowed funds, but not borrowing funds?

Financed in a trading context just means trading on margin. The full context this time was "financed long BTC/USD" so that can only mean borrowing USD to buy BTC.

To understand how Bitfinex is dealing with the fork you just need to think about who actually owns the coin at the moment it is forked. The owner gets the split token, not the borrower. USD is not being forked (don't give Janet Yellen ideas). If you have a margin BTC buy (are financed long BTC/USD) you borrowed USD to buy BTC. You bought the BTC, so own it and did not borrow it.

[Timetwister]

Thank you for the answer, but I'm not a native english speaker. Are you sure that "financed" means buying on borrowed funds, but not borrowing funds?

Financed in a trading context just means trading on margin. The full context this time was "financed long BTC/USD" so that can only mean borrowing USD to buy BTC.

To understand how Bitfinex is dealing with the fork you just need to think about who actually owns the coin at the moment it is forked. The owner gets the split token, not the borrower. USD is not being forked (don't give Janet Yellen ideas). If you have a margin BTC buy (are financed long BTC/USD) you borrowed USD to buy BTC. You bought the BTC, so own it and did not borrow it.

When should we have BTC at Bitfinex to get the new bitcoin segwit2x?

[TheQuin]

When should we have BTC at Bitfinex to get the new bitcoin segwit2x?

At the moment that BTC block 494,784 is mined. The last block mined was 493,348 so another 1,436 blocks to ago, roughly another 10 days. So it should be on the 16th November. That is dependant on the network not getting slowed down too much with some of the miners going off to mine BCH. As it gets nearer the estimate becomes more accurate.
Best to make sure it is there a bit before so you don't risk the transaction getting stuck when they disable deposits.

[deisik]

Who understood or from the experience of past forks: if I borrow USD (not bitcoins) and buy bitcoins before fork will I receive b2x tokens?
I read this statement https://www.bitfinex.com/posts/223  but it is clearly only about the borrowing of bitcoins.

If you borrow USD to buy Bitcoins then at the time of the fork you will own those Bitcoins and therefore get the B2X tokens.
From the statement you linked to:

Specifically, in the case of a hard fork event, lenders will receive both BTC and B2X. Anyone that is short BTC/USD or long any BTC trading pair (ETH/BTC, LTC/BTC, etc.) will owe B2X to the lender, effectively making the user short B2X. An exception is being made where BTC is borrowed but is not in use as financing collateral. In that case, B2X will accrue to the lender. Users that are financed long BTC/USD or short any BTC trading pair will receive B2X.

I bolded the bit that confirms that. If you buy BTC in a trade then you are long BTC in trading parlance

I still don't get it

I understand perfectly well about being long in BTC and receiving B2X tokens (read you have bitcoins in your account), but I don't quite understand the part between the parts you made bold. In other words, the quote you posted could be read as "Users that are financed [...] short any BTC trading pair will receive B2X". Doesn't it contradict the parts which are bold in your post since you can be short or long BTC in "any BTC trading pair"? This makes no sense to me. If I read it literally, it basically means that both lenders and borrowers should be credited B2X coins which is nonsense, obviously. What am I missing here or is it just Bitfinex not being quite clear in their statement?

[TheQuin]

I still don't get it

I understand perfectly well about being long in BTC and receiving B2X tokens (read you have bitcoins in your account), but I don't quite understand the part between the parts you made bold. In other words, the quote you posted could be read as "Users that are financed [...] short any BTC trading pair will receive B2X". Doesn't it contradict the parts which are bold in your post since you can be short or long BTC in "any BTC trading pair"? This makes no sense to me. If I read it literally, it basically means that both lenders and borrowers should be credited B2X coins which is nonsense, obviously. What am I missing here or is it just Bitfinex not being quite clear in their statement?

It's just that Bitfinex list the other currency pairs the other way round. So being long BTCUSD means you borrowed USD to buy BTC. Being short ETHBTC means you borrow ETH to buy BTC. In both cases, you did not borrow the BTC and therefore own it and get the split token.

It would be simpler to understand if exchanges always listed BTC is the first currency. If they called it BTCETH then the example I just gave would also be a long trade. I have no idea why they don't do it that way.

[deisik]

I still don't get it

I understand perfectly well about being long in BTC and receiving B2X tokens (read you have bitcoins in your account), but I don't quite understand the part between the parts you made bold. In other words, the quote you posted could be read as "Users that are financed [...] short any BTC trading pair will receive B2X". Doesn't it contradict the parts which are bold in your post since you can be short or long BTC in "any BTC trading pair"? This makes no sense to me. If I read it literally, it basically means that both lenders and borrowers should be credited B2X coins which is nonsense, obviously. What am I missing here or is it just Bitfinex not being quite clear in their statement?

It's just that Bitfinex list the other currency pairs the other way round. So being long BTCUSD means you borrowed USD to buy BTC. Being short ETHBTC means you borrow ETH to buy BTC. In both cases, you did not borrow the BTC and therefore own it and get the split token.

It would be simpler to understand if exchanges always listed BTC is the first currency. If they called it BTCETH then the example I just gave would also be a long trade. I have no idea why they don't do it that way

An idea has just struck me

It makes sense to lend your bitcoins (so that you get B2X tokens) and at the same time short the same amount of bitcoins. By lending and borrowing, you will 1) receive some percentage spread (since you can lend at higher rates and borrow at lower, it is pretty easy to do) and 2) protect yourself from any price crash if that should happen due to the hard fork while still receiving the B2X tokens, which you can sell at any time you deem right. Anyone want to comment on this?

[TheQuin]

An idea has just struck me

It makes sense to lend your bitcoins (so that you get B2X tokens) and at the same time short the same amount of bitcoins. By lending and borrowing, you will 1) receive some percentage spread (since you can lend at higher rates and borrow at lower, it is pretty easy to do) and 2) protect yourself from any price crash if that should happen due to the hard fork while still receiving the B2X tokens, which you can sell at any time you deem right. Anyone want to comment on this?

An interesting idea. The thing that concerns me is there is no correlation between the amount you can make on the lend/borrow spread and the price of Bitcoin. So yes you will be protected from any fall in BTC value due to any problems during the fork but if the price screams higher you will suffer big losses.

[deisik]

An idea has just struck me

It makes sense to lend your bitcoins (so that you get B2X tokens) and at the same time short the same amount of bitcoins. By lending and borrowing, you will 1) receive some percentage spread (since you can lend at higher rates and borrow at lower, it is pretty easy to do) and 2) protect yourself from any price crash if that should happen due to the hard fork while still receiving the B2X tokens, which you can sell at any time you deem right. Anyone want to comment on this?

An interesting idea. The thing that concerns me is there is no correlation between the amount you can make on the lend/borrow spread and the price of Bitcoin. So yes you will be protected from any fall in BTC value due to any problems during the fork but if the price screams higher you will suffer big losses.

What losses do you refer to?

You just won't be able to ride the price spike should there be any, but other than that, I would in no case count it as "losses". At max, these would be unearned or lost profits (or rather lost profit opportunities), but given the uncertainty, price volatility, and the current Bitcoin price itself, that might not be a very bad idea after all. Anyway, we are already well below the recent highs, so it may be too late to short unless we are going to drop a lot lower, of course (say, a few thousand dollars)

[ronypro]

Hi I am confused about Bitfinex policy with segwit2x.
I can understand( Announcement https://www.bitfinex.com/posts/221) that we can now split our bitcoins to BT1 AND BT2 with the help of coin split manager.
And this BT2 will later become B2X at the time of split.

Users will be able to create or destroy these new CSTs in any amount using the Token Manager located in the Order Type drop down menu of the sidebar order ticket. Upon creation, the BTC will be debited from your account and an equivalent amount of BT1 and BT2 will be credited. Users will also be able to reverse this process at any time, trading in equal numbers of BT1 and BT2 to extract BTC.

But here my question is if i donot want to split my coin like this and if i have
1btc in my bitfinex account at the time of fork.
Will i get the equal amount of B2X after the fork?

Or only if I Split my BTC before the fork like BT1 and BT2 then only I am getting B2X coin after the fork.

Their T&C for segwit2x https://www.bitfinex.com/legal/cst/segwit2x

Sorry posting here again as I think this is the official  support thread of bitfinex.
I will be really pleased to get any definite answer.

Original Post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2367234.0

[TheQuin]

What losses do you refer to?

You just won't be able to ride the price spike should there be any, but other than that, I would in no case count it as "losses". At max, these would be unearned or lost profits (or rather lost profit opportunities), but given the uncertainty, price volatility, and the current Bitcoin price itself, that might not be a very bad idea after all. Anyway, we are already well below the recent highs, so it may be too late to short unless we are going to drop a lot lower, of course (say, a few thousand dollars)

OK, I was reading too much into your use of the word hedge. What you suggest looks to be a good way of receiving the fork coin and still having your BTC available to trade short if you need to. I was thinking that what you meant by a hedge was that your PnL column would be neutral whatever happens to the BTC price. I was just pointing out that if the price goes up then you will get those losses.
(FWIW I'm looking at anything down to $6,000 as a buying opportunity if it breaks below that then a major correction may be in play ~$4,000 ish)

Hi I am confused about Bitfinex policy with segwit2x.
I can understand( Announcement https://www.bitfinex.com/posts/221) that we can now split our bitcoins to BT1 AND BT2 with the help of coin split manager.
And this BT2 will later become B2X at the time of split.

Users will be able to create or destroy these new CSTs in any amount using the Token Manager located in the Order Type drop down menu of the sidebar order ticket. Upon creation, the BTC will be debited from your account and an equivalent amount of BT1 and BT2 will be credited. Users will also be able to reverse this process at any time, trading in equal numbers of BT1 and BT2 to extract BTC.

But here my question is if i donot want to split my coin like this and if i have
1btc in my bitfinex account at the time of fork.
Will i get the equal amount of B2X after the fork?

Or only if I Split my BTC before the fork like BT1 and BT2 then only I am getting B2X coin after the fork.

Their T&C for segwit2x https://www.bitfinex.com/legal/cst/segwit2x

Sorry posting here again as I think this is the official  support thread of bitfinex.
I will be really pleased to get any definite answer.

Original Post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2367234.0

You are confusing two different things, trading tokens and the split. What you quote above refers to the futures market. If you want to speculate by trading the new coin now you have the option to split some BTC into BT1 and BT2 and trade these. They are not the new coin but just tokens that are being traded internally at Bitfinex. You are not being forced to use them it is completely optional.

When the fork actually happens around the 16th November you will automatically be credited the new B2X coin for all the BTC you own.

Bitfinex abandoned this forum and thread a long time ago. If you need confirmation that what I told you is correct I think you'll have more chance of getting a response on  /r/bitcoin or /r/bitcoinmarkets.

[deisik]

What losses do you refer to?

You just won't be able to ride the price spike should there be any, but other than that, I would in no case count it as "losses". At max, these would be unearned or lost profits (or rather lost profit opportunities), but given the uncertainty, price volatility, and the current Bitcoin price itself, that might not be a very bad idea after all. Anyway, we are already well below the recent highs, so it may be too late to short unless we are going to drop a lot lower, of course (say, a few thousand dollars)

OK, I was reading too much into your use of the word hedge. What you suggest looks to be a good way of receiving the fork coin and still having your BTC available to trade short if you need to. I was thinking that what you meant by a hedge was that your PnL column would be neutral whatever happens to the BTC price. I was just pointing out that if the price goes up then you will get those losses

Well, it seems that I mean exactly that

You borrow (i.e. short Bitcoin) and lend out (i.e. sort of go long) the same amount of bitcoins (let's discard the differences in the funding rates for the moment), so this is exactly what you will see, i.e. PnL being close to neutral. Indeed, if the price surges you won't be able to reap profits but, personally, I can't call that losses simply because you won't suffer any real losses if the price crashes or just seriously corrects instead. This is what hedging means. I understand that when taken in isolation, this approach doesn't make a lot of sense (since you could just sell the coins for fiat and get done with that), but there are still many use cases when it does. One such use case I just mentioned, i.e. receiving B2X tokens in a safe way

FWIW I'm looking at anything down to $6,000 as a buying opportunity if it breaks below that then a major correction may be in play ~$4,000 ish

There might be a dramatic squeeze when Bitcoin futures are allowed since it doesn't take a lot to bring Bitcoin down Soros style (even if temporarily)

[TheQuin]

One such use case I just mentioned, i.e. receiving B2X tokens in a safe way

I might be proved completely wrong but I'm personally not concerned about the fork having an adverse effect on BTC price. I understand there are risks but my assessment is that it one that I'm willing to take so I'm just leaving my BTC lent out. The BTC I have lent out is for the hodl, I'm not selling anytime soon. The interest rates are already starting to increase as I think many are taking them out of lending so I'm just benefiting from that.

There might be a dramatic squeeze when Bitcoin futures are allowed since it doesn't take a lot to bring Bitcoin down Soros style (even if temporarily)

The CME announcement last week could have a huge impact, in fact, I'm convinced it has far more to do with breaking $7k than the fork does. I'm hoping they get the necessary regulatory approval because I'm itching to day trade BTC futures on a real trading platform. It will be scalplicious.

[deisik]

One such use case I just mentioned, i.e. receiving B2X tokens in a safe way

I might be proved completely wrong but I'm personally not concerned about the fork having an adverse effect on BTC price. I understand there are risks but my assessment is that it one that I'm willing to take so I'm just leaving my BTC lent out. The BTC I have lent out is for the hodl, I'm not selling anytime soon. The interest rates are already starting to increase as I think many are taking them out of lending so I'm just benefiting from that.

There might be a dramatic squeeze when Bitcoin futures are allowed since it doesn't take a lot to bring Bitcoin down Soros style (even if temporarily)

The CME announcement last week could have a huge impact, in fact, I'm convinced it has far more to do with breaking $7k than the fork does. I'm hoping they get the necessary regulatory approval because I'm itching to day trade BTC futures on a real trading platform. It will be scalplicious

What do you mean by "scalplicious"?

Maybe, you wanted to say spectacular? That I certainly agree with. Regarding Bitcoin funding interest rates having started to rise, I think this has more to do with the expectations of Bitcoin price going down (which is opposite to what you might think). People borrow more when they want to short, that basically means they expect Bitcoin prices to go down, and not rise in the nearest future. For example, USD rates are up when Bitcoin goes up since it makes perfect sense to borrow dollars and buy bitcoins with them. It works in reverse as well

[Sukrim]

I agree that it rather seems like day traders are preparing for or expecting a crash if BTC interest rates go up.

[TheQuin]

What do you mean by "scalplicious"?

Maybe, you wanted to say spectacular? That I certainly agree with.

It's a portmanteau of scalping and delicious. Markets that move like BTCUSD are a paradise for scalpers but that's tough to do on the exchanges we have. I'm going to be a very happy trader if/when I can trade BTC futures on huge leverage and low fees using TT.

Regarding Bitcoin funding interest rates having started to rise, I think this has more to do with the expectations of Bitcoin price going down (which is opposite to what you might think). People borrow more when they want to short, that basically means they expect Bitcoin prices to go down, and not rise in the nearest future. For example, USD rates are up when Bitcoin goes up since it makes perfect sense to borrow dollars and buy bitcoins with them. It works in reverse as well

I know what you mean, that's exactly what I was thinking going into the last forks, but the more I think about it I'm sure a lot of traders are just moving their funds into their trading accounts ready to sell if the price goes down. The actual fall from the highs is very small right now so I don't think there is much shorting going on. It's just a theory I'm having at the moment.

[deisik]

What do you mean by "scalplicious"?

Maybe, you wanted to say spectacular? That I certainly agree with.

It's a portmanteau of scalping and delicious. Markets that move like BTCUSD are a paradise for scalpers but that's tough to do on the exchanges we have. I'm going to be a very happy trader if/when I can trade BTC futures on huge leverage and low fees using TT.

Regarding Bitcoin funding interest rates having started to rise, I think this has more to do with the expectations of Bitcoin price going down (which is opposite to what you might think). People borrow more when they want to short, that basically means they expect Bitcoin prices to go down, and not rise in the nearest future. For example, USD rates are up when Bitcoin goes up since it makes perfect sense to borrow dollars and buy bitcoins with them. It works in reverse as well

I know what you mean, that's exactly what I was thinking going into the last forks, but the more I think about it I'm sure a lot of traders are just moving their funds into their trading accounts ready to sell if the price goes down. The actual fall from the highs is very small right now so I don't think there is much shorting going on. It's just a theory I'm having at the moment

But this is what I'm saying myself

Well, at least, in respect of the effect on interest rates. In general, the rates are rising in two cases. The first case when there is no supply (let's assume the demand side doesn't change) and this is what you seem to mean, and the second one is when there is demand rising (i.e. when people are looking for a shorting opportunity). But in either of these two cases, people are expecting the Bitcoin price to tank, right? Since otherwise the supply wouldn't diminish, while the demand wouldn't increase