[OFFICIAL]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading

[LOADING.READY.RUN]

Nobody's taking all of my fiat for a reasonable interest rate, because, well, how to do leveraged trading if there's not even enough money on stamp for non-leveraged buying.

Hm, it's 4:1 again and people are putting up demands for loans around 200%... that's about back to where it was before the reduction in leverage, right?

Well, the lack of fiat reserve on stamp of course is unsatisfactory...

[oda.krell]

Nobody's taking all of my fiat for a reasonable interest rate, because, well, how to do leveraged trading if there's not even enough money on stamp for non-leveraged buying.

Hm, it's 4:1 again and people are putting up demands for loans around 200%... that's about back to where it was before the reduction in leverage, right?

Well, the lack of fiat reserve on stamp of course is unsatisfactory...

I would consider about 200%, 250% to be appropriate at the moment, given the risks and the chance for profit. But my total amount of fiat wasn't taken at that rate atm, and I suspect it's largely because you cannot margin trade if there's not fiat to execute your orders  

[Spaceman_Spiff]

Nobody's taking all of my fiat for a reasonable interest rate, because, well, how to do leveraged trading if there's not even enough money on stamp for non-leveraged buying.

Hm, it's 4:1 again and people are putting up demands for loans around 200%... that's about back to where it was before the reduction in leverage, right?

Well, the lack of fiat reserve on stamp of course is unsatisfactory...

I would consider about 200%, 250% to be appropriate at the moment, given the risks and the chance for profit. But my total amount of fiat wasn't taken at that rate atm, and I suspect it's largely because you cannot margin trade if there's not fiat to execute your orders  

I would say it is up to the market to decide whatever rate is appropriate (which depends on circumstances of course, both supply, demand and the bitfinex system/rules). You can't just claim that a certain percentage is "appropriate" and demand that you get that much for your lending.  Hell, if that is the case, then give me 9999% apr please.

[oda.krell]

Nobody's taking all of my fiat for a reasonable interest rate, because, well, how to do leveraged trading if there's not even enough money on stamp for non-leveraged buying.

Hm, it's 4:1 again and people are putting up demands for loans around 200%... that's about back to where it was before the reduction in leverage, right?

Well, the lack of fiat reserve on stamp of course is unsatisfactory...

I would consider about 200%, 250% to be appropriate at the moment, given the risks and the chance for profit. But my total amount of fiat wasn't taken at that rate atm, and I suspect it's largely because you cannot margin trade if there's not fiat to execute your orders  

I would say it is up to the market to decide whatever rate is appropriate (which depends on circumstances of course, both supply, demand and the bitfinex system/rules). You can't just claim that a certain percentage is "appropriate" and demand that you get that much for your lending.  Hell, if that is the case, then give me 9999% apr please.

You're missing the point, or didn't read my post. My argument went:

I consider X% interest rate appropriate. It's not taken completely at that rate. Okay, I'll buy myself then. Only, I cannot.

tl;dr I'm not complaining that I'm not getting enough interest, I'm complaining that, because of a lack of fiat on Bitstamp, both lending rates are dampened *and* I can't buy myself.

[TwinWinNerD]

Nobody's taking all of my fiat for a reasonable interest rate, because, well, how to do leveraged trading if there's not even enough money on stamp for non-leveraged buying.

Hm, it's 4:1 again and people are putting up demands for loans around 200%... that's about back to where it was before the reduction in leverage, right?

Well, the lack of fiat reserve on stamp of course is unsatisfactory...

I would consider about 200%, 250% to be appropriate at the moment, given the risks and the chance for profit. But my total amount of fiat wasn't taken at that rate atm, and I suspect it's largely because you cannot margin trade if there's not fiat to execute your orders  

I would say it is up to the market to decide whatever rate is appropriate (which depends on circumstances of course, both supply, demand and the bitfinex system/rules). You can't just claim that a certain percentage is "appropriate" and demand that you get that much for your lending.  Hell, if that is the case, then give me 9999% apr please.

You're missing the point, or didn't read my post. My argument went:

I consider X% interest rate appropriate. It's not taken completely at that rate. Okay, I'll buy myself then. Only, I cannot.

tl;dr I'm not complaining that I'm not getting enough interest, I'm complaining that, because of a lack of fiat on Bitstamp, both lending rates are dampened *and* I can't buy myself.

its already routing again...

[aminorex]

no asks from bitstamp are visible on bfx.  it would be nice to know when usd will again be on deposit. 

actually, i am intrigued that bitstamp bids are still routed.  that means there is btc at bitstamp.  which means that bfx has funding on account at bitstamp.  they are merely unwilling to sell any of their btc.

[aminorex]

The thing with depositing 0.12 BTC and being credited something else is not the issue that a few fractions of a cent are missing - it's that apparently there must be either a rounding error or something else going wrong somewhere.

i see that a lot at bfx.  always in their favor, which probably influences the priority of fixing the bug. the accounting would be intolerable if there were competition, but bfx is head and shoulders above everyone else in terms of trading function and customer relations.  i just wish it had more credibilty so that i could place more funds there.

[urwhatuknow]

The thing with depositing 0.12 BTC and being credited something else is not the issue that a few fractions of a cent are missing - it's that apparently there must be either a rounding error or something else going wrong somewhere.

i see that a lot at bfx.  always in their favor, which probably influences the priority of fixing the bug. the accounting would be intolerable if there were competition, but bfx is head and shoulders above everyone else in terms of trading function and customer relations.  i just wish it had more credibilty so that i could place more funds there.

There is no bug, there was no rounding.
If you just read Raphael's reply you would know that it was actually "remember remember"'s mistake not to check his history before writing his post.
He actually borrowed some funds and he was charged interests because of it.
I strongly encourage you to read the posts Raphael and me wrote in the past about the various questions you pose, which have been already answered "ad nauseam".

But I'll try to do it once more:

1) We send money to Bitstamp (lots of it) every day.
2) Money is used almost immediately to buy bitcoins.
3) Our account there gets dry and we send money (lots of it) again.

So the ETA is every day: today, tomorrow, the day after tomorrow, the day after the day after tomorrow........

Oda.krell: You want to buy at a price and avoid slippage when you can only buy on BFX? Ever heard of limit orders?

Sorry for being a little rude guys, but there is a limit to what a man can take.
I believe next time you should think twice (or read) before writing, at least this will avoid making a fool out of yourself.

Have a good day

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team

[aminorex]

well people are jerks and i am a person, so there you go.  given the volume and confusion in the threads, it is very time consuming to extract relevant data, and time is precious when you are almost dead,  i'd rather make a fool of myself than lose another hour.  sorry to have tested your patience.  just remember:  that which does not kill us makes us stronger. 

[8fold]

Ok guys, I know there's money on the line for all trading here, but that does not mean we should lose our temper whenever something goes the other way we want it.

Giancarlo, looks like you are human after all. I'm certain oda.krell is using limit orders from time to time; he was just expressing a little frustration mostly because I believe he expects a lot from you guys. And that is a good thing.

oda.krell ... I know how you feel, because you are not the only one having money there and wanting to go long in certain spots and seeing such a gap. But I try to be as supportive as I can of these guys, because as young as this business is, it needs a little time to get to the point we would want it.

I still believe Bitfinex to be the best exchange service at the moment, even if it not perfect. There will always be room for improvements, and as long as Bitfinex is willing to do it, people who realize this will stick around.

[urwhatuknow]

Ok guys, I know there's money on the line for all trading here, but that does not mean we should lose our temper whenever something goes the other way we want it.

Giancarlo, looks like you are human after all. I'm certain oda.krell is using limit orders from time to time; he was just expressing a little frustration mostly because I believe he expects a lot from you guys. And that is a good thing.

oda.krell ... I know how you feel, because you are not the only one having money there and wanting to go long in certain spots and seeing such a gap. But I try to be as supportive as I can of these guys, because as young as this business is, it needs a little time to get to the point we would want it.

I still believe Bitfinex to be the best exchange service at the moment, even if it not perfect. There will always be room for improvements, and as long as Bitfinex is willing to do it, people who realize this will stick around.

I don't mind repeating things until I drop dead.
It's only that allegations such as "i see that a lot at bfx.  always in their favor, which probably influences the priority of fixing the bug"  make me mad.
They are untrue, unfair and disrespectful.
Having said that I better shut my mouth or I will prove once more to our community to be very "human"
:-)

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team

[8fold]

It's only that allegations such as [...]
They are untrue, unfair and disrespectful.

They may very well be so, however why not only focus on delivering service in order to eventually see the praise and appreciation overwhelm negative comments?

[urwhatuknow]

It's only that allegations such as [...]
They are untrue, unfair and disrespectful.

They may very well be so, however why not only focus on delivering service in order to eventually see the praise and appreciation overwhelm negative comments?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this is what we are doing.

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team

[oda.krell]

The thing with depositing 0.12 BTC and being credited something else is not the issue that a few fractions of a cent are missing - it's that apparently there must be either a rounding error or something else going wrong somewhere.

i see that a lot at bfx.  always in their favor, which probably influences the priority of fixing the bug. the accounting would be intolerable if there were competition, but bfx is head and shoulders above everyone else in terms of trading function and customer relations.  i just wish it had more credibilty so that i could place more funds there.

There is no bug, there was no rounding.
If you just read Raphael's reply you would know that it was actually "remember remember"'s mistake not to check his history before writing his post.
He actually borrowed some funds and he was charged interests because of it.
I strongly encourage you to read the posts Raphael and me wrote in the past about the various questions you pose, which have been already answered "ad nauseam".

But I'll try to do it once more:

1) We send money to Bitstamp (lots of it) every day.
2) Money is used almost immediately to buy bitcoins.
3) Our account there gets dry and we send money (lots of it) again.

So the ETA is every day: today, tomorrow, the day after tomorrow, the day after the day after tomorrow........

Oda.krell: You want to buy at a price and avoid slippage when you can only buy on BFX? Ever heard of limit orders?

Sorry for being a little rude guys, but there is a limit to what a man can take.
I believe next time you should think twice (or read) before writing, at least this will avoid making a fool out of yourself.

Have a good day

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team

@Giancarlo

I'll try to keep this short.

You are, in my opinion, the single most rude point of contact/spokesperson a company could imagine.

Let me summarize our exchange above:

I express my dissatisfaction with

(a) the lack of fiat on the exchange I want to trade on (bitstamp), and

(b) that my order would incur heavy slippage if I would execute it on bitfinex as an alternative, therefore it is not really an alternative ...

... and you tell me to use limit orders?!

You have to be kidding me. This is so wildly unprofessional of you, that I can say that you're so far the first (and only serious) reason making me consider taking my money out of bitfinex.

Well done, sir.

[Sukrim]

You are, in my opinion, the single most rude point of contact/spokesperson a company could imagine.

Never dealt with MPOE-PR then, hm?

[solracx]

Folks,

I really like your service (Bitfinex).  It is probably one of the best exchange out there.

However, I just heard about a the Chinese exchange GBL ( http://www.coindesk.com/4-1m-goes-missing-chinese-bitcoin-trading-platform-gbl-vanishes/ ) that was supposedly based in Hong Kong that just disappeared!

What can BitFinex provide to reassure investors that you folks are legitimate?

Thanks!

[mccoyspace]

You are, in my opinion, the single most rude point of contact/spokesperson a company could imagine.

Never dealt with MPOE-PR then, hm?

I think his tone and professionalism have improved greatly since the spring. 

The transfer of fiat is the backbone of bitcoin exchanges. It is a problem they all face. Compare Bitfinex's challenges to those of Gox or CampBX.
So far, it's pretty good.
In the mean time, route buys and sells internally.

[Spekulatius]

Shit man, I had a smoothly going short from 355 USD just now, backed up by this 2500+ BTC ASK wall at Bitstamp that is still standing there untouched when suddenly this happened. I just lost a 1000 USD on a totally sound position and I would have been wiped out if I hadnt put up a Stop order at 360 (that got executed at 369).

I know Bitfinex was risky for various reasons but thats too much. I know you have discussed your BTC shortage on Bitstamp some posts up, but the same issue arises again no 24hrs after?? No one can trade this reliably without getting wiped out by things like this that shouldnt happen in a professional service. It uncomfortably reminds me of the infamous starfish at Bitcoinica when they had their liquidity crisis shortly before they shut down. I have lost alot of money on various kinks that shouldnt be but I cant get used to this one. Im out.

All the best and see you in a couple of months (years?),

Spekulatius

[Luzio]

Why would you blame this on Bitfinex. Just keep track of the order book depth. You are responsible for your own positions and risks, not Bitfinex. I have no complaints yet, I moved from Gox to Bitfinex.

[solracx]

Shit man, I had a smoothly going short from 355 USD just now, backed up by this 2500+ BTC ASK wall at Bitstamp that is still standing there untouched when suddenly this happened. I just lost a 1000 USD on a totally sound position and I would have been wiped out if I hadnt put up a Stop order at 360 (that got executed at 369).

I know Bitfinex was risky for various reasons but thats too much. I know you have discussed your BTC shortage on Bitstamp some posts up, but the same issue arises again no 24hrs after?? No one can trade this reliably without getting wiped out by things like this that shouldnt happen in a professional service. It uncomfortably reminds me of the infamous starfish at Bitcoinica when they had their liquidity crisis shortly before they shut down. I have lost alot of money on various kinks that shouldnt be but I cant get used to this one. Im out.

All the best and see you in a couple of months (years?),

Spekulatius

Going short can be treachorous.    There a swing of over 10 USD ahead of the market at times.  For the squeemish or folks who have like stop orders, its can kill you!  Going margin long is also problematic in that you're paying a huge interest rate.

Still, I like the exchange for the options that it provides.