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Author Topic: [OFFICIAL]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading  (Read 723577 times)
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etaty
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November 21, 2013, 01:43:23 PM
 #701

Maybe if it is a big risk for bitfinex, maybe you could let lenders decide?
Ichthyo
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November 21, 2013, 03:19:56 PM
 #702

I don't get why they won't just pick the 4, 6, or, 8 hour period of least volume and say....

and when exactly are those hours? When the Asians are trading? or when the Europeans are
waking up, or when the USA folks are enjoying their evening??  Wink
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November 21, 2013, 03:52:31 PM
Last edit: July 01, 2017, 11:58:27 AM by urwhatuknow
 #703

The Great Bitfinex Game!

1) Bitfinex will pay a bounty of 1 BTC for anybody that comes out with an idea that actually makes sense in order to improve our liquidity on Bitstamp
2) Anybody that will post an idea that is flawed, doesn't make sense, will never work for the reasons I will be honored to explain or just say things like " why don't you transfer to Bitstamp more money if 2 millions a day is not enough" will have to pay 1 BTC cent to the address:


All the coins collected by this game will be donated to www.seansoutpost.com , a homeless outreach in Florida accepting bitcoins.

Smiley

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team
 





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superbit
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November 21, 2013, 04:10:43 PM
 #704

The Great Bitfinex Game!

1) Bitfinex will pay a bounty of 1 BTC for anybody that comes out with an idea that actually makes sense in order to improve our liquidity on Bitstamp
2) Anybody that will post an idea that is flawed, doesn't make sense, will never work for the reasons I will be honored to explain or just say things like " why don't you transfer to Bitstamp more money if 2 millions a day is not enough" will have to pay 1 BTC cent to the address:
1J14J1ZR11CsFKXyhneXpfVBp34ovQuh7C

All the coins collected by this game will be donated to www.seansoutpost.com , a homeless outreach in Florida accepting bitcoins.

Smiley

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team
 



I'll go first.  Have a second account at bitstamp that is integrated into bitfinex the same, but only goes live when funds are dry on the main account.

Give lenders the option to not only lend out USD as normal, but they could have it sent to bitfinex instead.  The second account at bitfinex would have higher trading fees and would then compensate the lenders.  Any one buying BTC would be notified that there is no BTC in the main account and the fees are X% higher.  The order book would automatically integrate the higher fees when deciding whether to use the bitstamp exchange or the internal exchange.

When the purchase is made the USD would leave the borrowers account and go equally back to each lender in proportion to how much USD is in the second bitfinex account.  So let's say there was $10,000 in there from lenders.  Someone buys $5,000 +fees.  The funds would then go $0.50 on the dollar to each of the bitstamp lenders PLUS their share of the higher fees.

The higher fee will have to be calculated to be worthwhile instead of lending out the USD, but that will just take some math.

Then the lenders could choose to do what they want with the USD, either include it in the next batch you send over to the second bitstamp account, lend it out, etc...

https://bitfinex.com/?refcode=UInJLQ5KpA <-- leveraged trading of BTCUSD, LTCUSD and LTCBTC (long and short) - 10% discount on fees for the first 30 days with the refcode
My feedback thread: Forum thread
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November 21, 2013, 04:24:26 PM
 #705

If the issue is counter party risk then I would suggest opening a bank account in the same bank as bitstamp and use in-bank (I'm not sure about the proper expression in English) transfers - they're instant. You can than keep bigger amount in your own bank account.
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November 21, 2013, 04:27:40 PM
 #706

If the issue is counter party risk then I would suggest opening a bank account in the same bank as bitstamp and use in-bank (I'm not sure about the proper expression in English) transfers - they're instant. You can than keep bigger amount in your own bank account.


I don't want to speak for the bitfinex team, but that is not the issue at all.  Please donate one btc cent: 1J14J1ZR11CsFKXyhneXpfVBp34ovQuh7C

https://bitfinex.com/?refcode=UInJLQ5KpA <-- leveraged trading of BTCUSD, LTCUSD and LTCBTC (long and short) - 10% discount on fees for the first 30 days with the refcode
My feedback thread: Forum thread
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November 21, 2013, 04:53:08 PM
 #707

The Great Bitfinex Game!

1) Bitfinex will pay a bounty of 1 BTC for anybody that comes out with an idea that actually makes sense in order to improve our liquidity on Bitstamp
2) Anybody that will post an idea that is flawed, doesn't make sense, will never work for the reasons I will be honored to explain or just say things like " why don't you transfer to Bitstamp more money if 2 millions a day is not enough" will have to pay 1 BTC cent to the address:
1J14J1ZR11CsFKXyhneXpfVBp34ovQuh7C

All the coins collected by this game will be donated to www.seansoutpost.com , a homeless outreach in Florida accepting bitcoins.

Smiley

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team
 

Allow deposits of funds (especially USD) directly on Bitstamp instead of having us wire them to you. If Bitstamp doesn't allow that directly (haven't checked in a while if I can transfer funds to another Bitstamp account on their platform), go via Ripple for example - it works there for sure and you have an account on there already for months anyways. Time to use it.
If KYC etc. is the problem, just don't credit the balance until the user is verified or only offer this option to verified users. You can also bounce the payment on Ripple...

1 BTC to: 1riwQCsBudrKu44hF8yvQfg2aeMHW1DvC

https://www.coinlend.org <-- automated lending at various exchanges.
https://www.bitfinex.com <-- Trade BTC for other currencies and vice versa.
superbit
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November 21, 2013, 05:09:39 PM
 #708

The Great Bitfinex Game!

1) Bitfinex will pay a bounty of 1 BTC for anybody that comes out with an idea that actually makes sense in order to improve our liquidity on Bitstamp
2) Anybody that will post an idea that is flawed, doesn't make sense, will never work for the reasons I will be honored to explain or just say things like " why don't you transfer to Bitstamp more money if 2 millions a day is not enough" will have to pay 1 BTC cent to the address:
1J14J1ZR11CsFKXyhneXpfVBp34ovQuh7C

All the coins collected by this game will be donated to www.seansoutpost.com , a homeless outreach in Florida accepting bitcoins.

Smiley

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team
 

Allow deposits of funds (especially USD) directly on Bitstamp instead of having us wire them to you. If Bitstamp doesn't allow that directly (haven't checked in a while if I can transfer funds to another Bitstamp account on their platform), go via Ripple for example - it works there for sure and you have an account on there already for months anyways. Time to use it.
If KYC etc. is the problem, just don't credit the balance until the user is verified or only offer this option to verified users. You can also bounce the payment on Ripple...

1 BTC to: 1riwQCsBudrKu44hF8yvQfg2aeMHW1DvC

I like my solution better, this would need each account to be linked to each persons personal bitstamp account, and not help out everyone else when there is a problem.  Saying that it SHOULD still happen as it's a great safety net and bonus to the people that take the time to have their own bitstamp emergency fund.

Share the 1 BTC?

https://bitfinex.com/?refcode=UInJLQ5KpA <-- leveraged trading of BTCUSD, LTCUSD and LTCBTC (long and short) - 10% discount on fees for the first 30 days with the refcode
My feedback thread: Forum thread
urwhatuknow
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November 21, 2013, 05:14:35 PM
 #709

The Great Bitfinex Game!

1) Bitfinex will pay a bounty of 1 BTC for anybody that comes out with an idea that actually makes sense in order to improve our liquidity on Bitstamp
2) Anybody that will post an idea that is flawed, doesn't make sense, will never work for the reasons I will be honored to explain or just say things like " why don't you transfer to Bitstamp more money if 2 millions a day is not enough" will have to pay 1 BTC cent to the address:
1J14J1ZR11CsFKXyhneXpfVBp34ovQuh7C

All the coins collected by this game will be donated to www.seansoutpost.com , a homeless outreach in Florida accepting bitcoins.

Smiley

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team
 



I'll go first.  Have a second account at bitstamp that is integrated into bitfinex the same, but only goes live when funds are dry on the main account.

Give lenders the option to not only lend out USD as normal, but they could have it sent to bitfinex instead.  The second account at bitfinex would have higher trading fees and would then compensate the lenders.  Any one buying BTC would be notified that there is no BTC in the main account and the fees are X% higher.  The order book would automatically integrate the higher fees when deciding whether to use the bitstamp exchange or the internal exchange.

When the purchase is made the USD would leave the borrowers account and go equally back to each lender in proportion to how much USD is in the second bitfinex account.  So let's say there was $10,000 in there from lenders.  Someone buys $5,000 +fees.  The funds would then go $0.50 on the dollar to each of the bitstamp lenders PLUS their share of the higher fees.

The higher fee will have to be calculated to be worthwhile instead of lending out the USD, but that will just take some math.

Then the lenders could choose to do what they want with the USD, either include it in the next batch you send over to the second bitstamp account, lend it out, etc...


Ok, your idea is good, much better than any others I've heard so far.
Wonderful from a theoretical point of view, a nightmare from a logistic point of view.

Here are the problems I see:

1) A lenders decides to stop lending and to move his money on Bitstamp.
This will take at least 2 working days (banks are slow).
It normally takes 1 hour for the money to disappear into bitcoin.
How much would you have to charge a customer that decides to use this reserve ( you have to come up with a number that makes sense compared to what a lender actually gets in 2 days of interests in this moment) ?
2) Once money arrive on the 2nd Bitstamp account a lender might decide he wants to repatriate his money and this will originate extra bank fees ( Bitfinex do charge a percentage on outgoing wires) and extra working time.
3) The total amount lent is around 3 millions in this moment and we transfer about the same amount every day on Bitstamp.
Even if a good part of the lenders would stop lending ( causing a big raise in interest rate and hurting borrowers in a bad way) it would be like a drop in the ocean, 300k wont last more than 10 minutes or so.

I could go on for another 3 points at least, but I think I already convinced you as you appear to be a quite smart person to me.
Believe me, we don't sleep at night to solve problems like this one.
And apart for me, all the other players in the team are quite intelligent and skilled in finding solutions.
In this moment people keep 90% in coins and 10% in liquidity and this causes problems.
Not much we can do about it.
We receive money every day.
We transfer money every day.
After a while they are gone into BTC and LTC.

In my opinion the only possible solution is the following:

Every customer, before entering an order must consider to tick the option " Bitfinex only".
He will save money on commission ( we cost one third of Bitstamp).
He will make our order book thicker.
He won't lose any money in slippage if he puts up a limit order (it might sound imbecile to some, but most people do place market orders, including the ones that think it's imbecile).

It's not much, but it's all I have to say.

If you think I'm right, please donate your cent to the homeless at Shawn's Outpost and have a great day, otherwise just have a good day.

Smiley

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team








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Sukrim
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November 21, 2013, 05:19:23 PM
 #710

He won't lose any money in slippage if he puts up a limit order (it might sound imbecile to some, but most people do place market orders, including the ones that think it's imbecile).
People rarely change defaults... how about as a first step making the default a pre-filled limit order routed only to Bitfinex? It would be nice to set the "only to Bitfinex" default to something else in the account settings of course. Not claiming a BTC for that one, but if you think people just quickly clicking buttons are a problem, do something about it!

https://www.coinlend.org <-- automated lending at various exchanges.
https://www.bitfinex.com <-- Trade BTC for other currencies and vice versa.
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November 21, 2013, 05:21:19 PM
 #711

The Great Bitfinex Game!

1) Bitfinex will pay a bounty of 1 BTC for anybody that comes out with an idea that actually makes sense in order to improve our liquidity on Bitstamp
2) Anybody that will post an idea that is flawed, doesn't make sense, will never work for the reasons I will be honored to explain or just say things like " why don't you transfer to Bitstamp more money if 2 millions a day is not enough" will have to pay 1 BTC cent to the address:
1J14J1ZR11CsFKXyhneXpfVBp34ovQuh7C

All the coins collected by this game will be donated to www.seansoutpost.com , a homeless outreach in Florida accepting bitcoins.

Smiley

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team
 

Allow deposits of funds (especially USD) directly on Bitstamp instead of having us wire them to you. If Bitstamp doesn't allow that directly (haven't checked in a while if I can transfer funds to another Bitstamp account on their platform), go via Ripple for example - it works there for sure and you have an account on there already for months anyways. Time to use it.
If KYC etc. is the problem, just don't credit the balance until the user is verified or only offer this option to verified users. You can also bounce the payment on Ripple...

1 BTC to: 1riwQCsBudrKu44hF8yvQfg2aeMHW1DvC

Current KYC/AML regulation doesn't allow this to happen.

Good idea, but sorry... not possible.

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team




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urwhatuknow
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November 21, 2013, 05:24:38 PM
 #712

He won't lose any money in slippage if he puts up a limit order (it might sound imbecile to some, but most people do place market orders, including the ones that think it's imbecile).
People rarely change defaults... how about as a first step making the default a pre-filled limit order routed only to Bitfinex? It would be nice to set the "only to Bitfinex" default to something else in the account settings of course. Not claiming a BTC for that one, but if you think people just quickly clicking buttons are a problem, do something about it!

Customers will then execute market orders and due to the fact that it's pre-set only on BFX they will blame on us the fact that they lost money due to slippage (it's always our fault when they lose).
Raphael wants the customer to always pick by default  the best possible option ( he even embedded commissions in the price to make things easier) and I must say I share his view.

Thank you anyway, nice try

Wink

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team




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November 21, 2013, 05:28:33 PM
 #713

Third party financial institution, which can guarantee large amount credit line or factoring? May be the same Slovenia bank knows some solution?

Slovenia has a systemic risk embedded, no way we'll put your money there.
 
Third party financial institutions taking risk on a bitcoin related business? You must be kidding me.....
If you find one you win 10 BTC, not only 1.
Wink

Thanks anyway

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team




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November 21, 2013, 05:30:38 PM
 #714

Easier way would be working a deal with bitstamp for a USD credit line collateraliced in BTC. You can even use some multisig addresses to hold the collateral, removing some trust issues. When you need more USD in bitstamp, you can send more BTC to the address. When BTC raises, your collateral becomes more valuable, and your credit gets better.
But on a crashing market you'll need to have a lot of BTC on hold to refill the collateral, or that could end on a disaster...
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November 21, 2013, 05:33:26 PM
 #715

I guess Bitstamp has other things to do than setting up a collateralized loan contract with an entity in Hongkong(!) collateralized with internet funny money (as far as lawyers are concerned).

https://www.coinlend.org <-- automated lending at various exchanges.
https://www.bitfinex.com <-- Trade BTC for other currencies and vice versa.
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November 21, 2013, 05:33:55 PM
 #716

Easier way would be working a deal with bitstamp for a USD credit line collateraliced in BTC. You can even use some multisig addresses to hold the collateral, removing some trust issues. When you need more USD in bitstamp, you can send more BTC to the address. When BTC raises, your collateral becomes more valuable, and your credit gets better.
But on a crashing market you'll need to have a lot of BTC on hold to refill the collateral, or that could end on a disaster...

You already answered to your question.
It could end in a disaster.
Nejc is not a stupid and he would never accept it.
Would you?
If yes I have a bridge to sell.....

Wink

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team






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November 21, 2013, 06:36:03 PM
 #717

This seems interesting: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1r4d6t/bitstamps_streaming_api_and_exploitation/
TL;DR: Bitstamp's undocumented streaming API seems to reveal out-of-order trade execution that can be exploited to steal margins from large buys/sells.
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November 21, 2013, 06:51:16 PM
 #718

How can I disable does irritating margin call emails?

Also the huge red box that my margin is in danger apears way too soon IMO.

Greetings
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November 21, 2013, 07:37:14 PM
 #719

How can I disable does irritating margin call emails?

Also the huge red box that my margin is in danger apears way too soon IMO.

Greetings

Same here, was really irritated. Consequently I closed a long that was doing very well (40% profit over current margin balance), because I feared that within the next minutes this (including many other users' margin positions) would be force closed. In currently variable market depth this could've led to much larger losses (given an open position in 3-digit bitcoins).

Anyway, I'm aware that the migration phase isn't over, so I'm willing to take the risk. Still want to make use of the steady and predictable rise we experience these days.
nrd525
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November 21, 2013, 08:40:59 PM
 #720

I'm not sure that Slovenia is that risky.  Is the problem its high interest rates?  They really aren't high when compared to historical averages - it is only recently that countries with 7-10% interest rates have been seen to have high rates.

Looks like the current 10 year rate is a mere 5.7%.
http://www.investing.com/rates-bonds/slovenia-government-bonds

First idea: I'm guessing that you could buy insurance that would cover the risk of a Slovenia default or haircut.


Second idea:  You could do more to promote shorting (ex. advertising, how-to articles, publicize how cheap shorting is).  If I'm correct in my reasoning, this indirectly increases liquidity by decreasing the demand for Bitstamp BTC. You can short BTC for a mere 2% APR.  Even in the biggest bear markets, the level of shorting (USD value of borrowed BTC) rarely exceeds the level of going long (borrowed USD).  While when bitcoin was flat, bulls typically exceeded bears by 2:1.


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