Just-Dice.com : now with added CLAMs : Play or Invest

[algore]

I have a question.

When I use the verifier on doge-dice are the results generated after pasting the data, ie.

Are these results supposed to match my last same roll numbers? Or are they supposed to be different?

If not how do I verify. And If so why are all my roll numbers not matching up?

The results are supposed to match up, yes.

Probably the reason they don't is that you're using the wrong roll generation algorithm.

On Just-Dice we used to use a simple algorithm which only used the player's "nonce" value once per roll calculation.  Some investors complained that maybe that wasn't good enough (nakowa had just won a lot and investors were losing confidence) so I gave in to pressure and announced that from bet 145,000,000 we would be using a more complex algorithm to generate rolls.  (We were on bet 144 million or so at the time).

When I made Doge-Dice.com, I copied the Just-Dice code, so that too uses the simple algorithm up to bet 145M, and the other one afterwards.  The two algorithms are both described on the 'Fair?' tab, as is the fact that it switches at bet 145M.

So for doge-dice, which has seen less than 145M bets so far, you need to use the old algorithm.  The verifier was designed with Just-Dice in mind, after the change, but if you read the small grey writing, you'll see that you can put the bet ID into the 2nd box, and if it's less than 145M, it will use the old algorithm.

I just tested it out on my most recent Doge-Dice rolls.  First pull up details on a bet:

https://i.imgur.com/b2HZF0s.png

Copy the values into the verifier.  Make sure you put a number less that 145M into the betid field.  It doesn't matter what number you use.  I put '1':

https://i.imgur.com/P4Urgub.png

Compare with your actual rolls.  The numbers should be identical:

https://i.imgur.com/AS4N917.png

Thanks for your help, it seems to be working now, appreciate it!

[dooglus]

I find it hard to believe people are staking hundreds of thousands of dollars on just-dice.  This one dude won almost half a million usd yesterday lol?

It's quite incredible isn't it, but I can assure you that it really does happen.

I've heard that he has a massive mining setup and mines huge numbers of coins.

It seems I just scammed right and left and am to stubborn and stupid to pull out lol.  Some insight from random people on the internet always helps.

This information is publically available on site.

biggest cumulative gains in last 24 hours

+--------+-----------------+
| uid    | profit          |
+--------+-----------------+
| 441586 |    602.70617183 |
| 441445 |    120.29725771

I hope you stuck around for a few days...

biggest cumulative losses in last 24 hours

+--------+-----------------+
| uid    | profit          |
+--------+-----------------+
|   1337 | -2,190.00000012 |
| 449038 |    -22.44000000 |

The same guy who won the 602 BTC lost 2190 BTC yesterday, into a 37k bankroll, giving everyone invested an almost instant 6% return on investment.  After losing, he said:

(1337) <LiKaShing> nevermind it's just my playing wallet LOL

ie. this wasn't a serious amount for him - it's just play money.

I hear he's collecting "investments" from people to stage an attempt at a comeback.  Whether to stay in the bankroll for it or not is up to you.

[dooglus]

does no one recognize the moral dilemma here? incouraging peeps to "invest" in a rigged dice game?...doog i love you man but this house of cardz soon to fall imho! :-) weeeee

You again?

The game is probably provably fair as I keep telling you.

Just because I've blocked you from trolling the support system doesn't mean you have to come back and troll the forums.

Edit: sick typo!

Edit2: Also, I'm not encouraging anyone to invest.  I don't care if people invest or not.  The bankroll is arguably too big already, and I wouldn't mind at all being responsible for a smaller number of other people's coins.

[dooglus]

Any screenshots of the blood bath? Missed it by a hour or so

I didn't take screenshots, but I can query the bet database.

Here are all the bets of 100 BTC or more on account 1337 yesterday:

+-----------+--------------+--------+---------------------+---------------+
| betid     | bet          | chance | date                | profit        |
+-----------+--------------+--------+---------------------+---------------+
| 540752930 | 251.76701861 |   78.5 | 2014-01-26 19:56:59 | -251.76701861 |
| 540805365 |          550 |   78.5 | 2014-01-26 20:12:29 |    143.630575 |
| 540805631 |          550 |   78.5 | 2014-01-26 20:12:34 |          -550 |
| 540805930 |        137.5 |   78.5 | 2014-01-26 20:12:45 |   35.90764375 |
| 540806017 |        137.5 |   78.5 | 2014-01-26 20:12:47 |   35.90764375 |
| 540807876 |        137.5 |   90.5 | 2014-01-26 20:13:20 |   12.91436437 |
| 540807986 |        137.5 |   90.5 | 2014-01-26 20:13:22 |   12.91436437 |
| 540808284 |        137.5 |   90.5 | 2014-01-26 20:13:27 |   12.91436437 |
| 540808348 |        137.5 |   90.5 | 2014-01-26 20:13:29 |   12.91436437 |
| 540808810 |          275 |   90.5 | 2014-01-26 20:13:37 |   25.82872875 |
| 540809267 |          275 |   90.5 | 2014-01-26 20:13:44 |   25.82872875 |
| 540809354 |          275 |   90.5 | 2014-01-26 20:13:46 |   25.82872875 |
| 540813937 | 137.49999616 |   79.5 | 2014-01-26 20:15:09 | -137.49999616 |
| 540814073 | 249.15696481 |   79.5 | 2014-01-26 20:15:13 |   61.11397278 |
| 540814188 | 249.15696481 |   79.5 | 2014-01-26 20:15:15 |   61.11397278 |
| 540815548 | 249.15696496 |   79.5 | 2014-01-26 20:15:40 |   61.11397281 |
| 540816917 | 124.57848256 |   79.5 | 2014-01-26 20:16:04 | -124.57848256 |
| 540817084 | 230.27921206 |   79.5 | 2014-01-26 20:16:07 | -230.27921206 |
| 540883304 |          160 |   90.5 | 2014-01-26 20:40:27 |     15.027624 |
| 540883367 |          160 |   90.5 | 2014-01-26 20:40:29 |          -160 |
| 540883727 |    408.78453 |   90.5 | 2014-01-26 20:40:38 |   38.39412633 |
| 540884735 | 102.19613248 |   90.5 | 2014-01-26 20:41:03 |    9.59853158 |
| 540884877 | 102.19613248 |   90.5 | 2014-01-26 20:41:06 |    9.59853158 |
| 540885073 | 102.19613248 |   90.5 | 2014-01-26 20:41:10 |    9.59853158 |
| 540885210 | 102.19613248 |   90.5 | 2014-01-26 20:41:12 |    9.59853158 |
| 540888027 | 102.19613248 |   90.5 | 2014-01-26 20:42:14 |    9.59853158 |
| 540888112 | 102.19613248 |   90.5 | 2014-01-26 20:42:16 |    9.59853158 |
| 540890040 | 102.19613248 |   90.5 | 2014-01-26 20:42:57 | -102.19613248 |
| 540890181 | 394.98663735 |   90.5 | 2014-01-26 20:43:00 | -394.98663735 |
| 540954590 | 171.79869184 |   49.5 | 2014-01-26 21:04:06 |  171.79869184 |
| 540957526 | 171.79869184 |   49.5 | 2014-01-26 21:05:11 | -171.79869184 |
| 540958490 | 155.79869184 |   49.5 | 2014-01-26 21:05:33 |  155.79869184 |
| 540974153 |          160 |   90.5 | 2014-01-26 21:11:36 |     15.027624 |
| 540974247 |          160 |   90.5 | 2014-01-26 21:11:38 |     15.027624 |
| 540984322 |          160 |   79.5 | 2014-01-26 21:15:11 |    39.2452832 |
| 540984770 |          160 |   79.5 | 2014-01-26 21:15:21 |          -160 |
| 540984940 |          320 |   79.5 | 2014-01-26 21:15:23 |    78.4905664 |
| 540985086 |          320 |   79.5 | 2014-01-26 21:15:29 |    78.4905664 |
| 540986339 |          320 |   79.5 | 2014-01-26 21:15:58 |          -320 |
| 540986537 |          640 |   79.5 | 2014-01-26 21:16:05 |   156.9811328 |
| 540988803 |          320 |   90.5 | 2014-01-26 21:17:06 |     30.055248 |
| 540988988 |          320 |   90.5 | 2014-01-26 21:17:08 |     30.055248 |
| 540989082 |          320 |   90.5 | 2014-01-26 21:17:10 |     30.055248 |
| 540990562 |          320 |   90.5 | 2014-01-26 21:17:38 |     30.055248 |
| 540990757 |          320 |   90.5 | 2014-01-26 21:17:44 |     30.055248 |
| 540992548 |          200 |   90.5 | 2014-01-26 21:18:17 |      18.78453 |
| 540992674 |          200 |   90.5 | 2014-01-26 21:18:19 |      18.78453 |
| 540992904 |          200 |   90.5 | 2014-01-26 21:18:23 |      18.78453 |
| 540993036 |          200 |   90.5 | 2014-01-26 21:18:27 |      18.78453 |
| 541003499 |          320 |   79.5 | 2014-01-26 21:21:42 |    78.4905664 |
| 541003585 |          320 |   79.5 | 2014-01-26 21:21:44 |          -320 |
| 541003857 | 586.74116106 |   79.5 | 2014-01-26 21:21:52 |  143.91764394 |
| 541004483 | 146.68529024 |   79.5 | 2014-01-26 21:22:17 | -146.68529024 |
| 541004644 | 556.29704494 |   79.5 | 2014-01-26 21:22:23 | -556.29704494 |
+-----------+--------------+--------+---------------------+---------------+

[Timetwister]

So sick. Those customers should be treated very well.

[BTC5OOO]

I have a question.

When I use the verifier on doge-dice are the results generated after pasting the data, ie.

Are these results supposed to match my last same roll numbers? Or are they supposed to be different?

If not how do I verify. And If so why are all my roll numbers not matching up?

The results are supposed to match up, yes.

Probably the reason they don't is that you're using the wrong roll generation algorithm.

On Just-Dice we used to use a simple algorithm which only used the player's "nonce" value once per roll calculation.  Some investors complained that maybe that wasn't good enough (nakowa had just won a lot and investors were losing confidence) so I gave in to pressure and announced that from bet 145,000,000 we would be using a more complex algorithm to generate rolls.  (We were on bet 144 million or so at the time).

When I made Doge-Dice.com, I copied the Just-Dice code, so that too uses the simple algorithm up to bet 145M, and the other one afterwards.  The two algorithms are both described on the 'Fair?' tab, as is the fact that it switches at bet 145M.

So for doge-dice, which has seen less than 145M bets so far, you need to use the old algorithm.  The verifier was designed with Just-Dice in mind, after the change, but if you read the small grey writing, you'll see that you can put the bet ID into the 2nd box, and if it's less than 145M, it will use the old algorithm.

I just tested it out on my most recent Doge-Dice rolls.  First pull up details on a bet:



Copy the values into the verifier.  Make sure you put a number less that 145M into the betid field.  It doesn't matter what number you use.  I put '1':



Compare with your actual rolls.  The numbers should be identical:

you are good at making smokescreen to whitewash your scam lol ;-)

[BTC5OOO]

does no one recognize the moral dilemma here? incouraging peeps to "invest" in a rigged dice game?...doog i love you man but this house of cardz soon to fall imho! :-) weeeee

You again?

The game is probably provably fair as I keep telling you.

Just because I've blocked you from trolling the support system doesn't mean you have to come back and troll the forums.

Edit: sick typo!

Edit2: Also, I'm not encouraging anyone to invest.  I don't care if people invest or not.  The bankroll is arguably too big already, and I wouldn't mind at all being responsible for a smaller number of other people's coins.

you are full of it bro, yes it's fairer than other sites... but it still is rigged!~ i want my BTC back because i know i was cheated i'm not too happy about it ! =(

[dooglus]

you are good at making smokescreen to whitewash your scam lol ;-)

Yeah, damn me and my mathematical rigour.

you are full of it bro, yes it's fairer than other sites... but it still is rigged!~ i want my BTC back because i know i was cheated i'm not too happy about it ! =(

A site is fair or it isn't.  Just-Dice is.

I've never ignored anyone on this forum ever.  You're close to becoming the first.

[FUR11]

I think it's fine where it is, but increasing the max bet will make investors more money in the long run

Please don't do this. Variance will burn us investors big time. The edge is already very low. The more small bets there are,  the closer it gets to the ideal of 'you give us your money, we give you 99% back, you give it to us again we give 99% of THAT back, and every 72 turns we have half your money'.

Larger bets means someone can make a score at our expense with a few large bets and some discipline.

No, it won't.  That's why you invest with thousands of other people, so that your collective bank can be very large.  Variance is the investor's friend, as gamblers are going to gamble.  Doog posted a graph of the total bets, and EVERY bet is already very very small with the exception of a teeny tiny amount of outliers.

As an investor, YOU WANT LARGER BETS because you have the edge!  You can't beat the house with "a few large bets and some discipline" because you don't have the advantage.  If what you are saying is true, then every casino ever would be broke.

Obviously realistically this doesn't really matter, as there are only like two people who can even think about touching the max bet number, and to be safe it could only really be raised by about 4x what it is right now, but the principle is still true.  The larger bets you are willing to take, with an edge, the more money you'll make in the long run.

[BTC5OOO]

I think it's fine where it is, but increasing the max bet will make investors more money in the long run

Please don't do this. Variance will burn us investors big time. The edge is already very low. The more small bets there are,  the closer it gets to the ideal of 'you give us your money, we give you 99% back, you give it to us again we give 99% of THAT back, and every 72 turns we have half your money'.

Larger bets means someone can make a score at our expense with a few large bets and some discipline.

No, it won't.  That's why you invest with thousands of other people, so that your collective bank can be very large.  Variance is the investor's friend, as gamblers are going to gamble.  Doog posted a graph of the total bets, and EVERY bet is already very very small with the exception of a teeny tiny amount of outliers.

As an investor, YOU WANT LARGER BETS because you have the edge!  You can't beat the house with "a few large bets and some discipline" because you don't have the advantage.  If what you are saying is true, then every casino ever would be broke.

Obviously realistically this doesn't really matter, as there are only like two people who can even think about touching the max bet number, and to be safe it could only really be raised by about 4x what it is right now, but the principle is still true.  The larger bets you are willing to take, with an edge, the more money you'll make in the long run.

imo the big players are shill doog accounts = yet another way to steal from the bitcoin community! :[

[BTC5OOO]

you are good at making smokescreen to whitewash your scam lol ;-)

Yeah, damn me and my mathematical rigour.

you are full of it bro, yes it's fairer than other sites... but it still is rigged!~ i want my BTC back because i know i was cheated i'm not too happy about it ! =(

A site is fair or it isn't.  Just-Dice is.

I've never ignored anyone on this forum ever.  You're close to becoming the first.

= lol it's "fairer" than most>>you are technically in my brothers territory so you have to deal with the Qubecicans or Canadian moose jockeys ...whatever you are funny guy but soon I get all your coins! LOL =) weeeee

[seuntjie]

you are good at making smokescreen to whitewash your scam lol ;-)

Yeah, damn me and my mathematical rigour.

you are full of it bro, yes it's fairer than other sites... but it still is rigged!~ i want my BTC back because i know i was cheated i'm not too happy about it ! =(

A site is fair or it isn't.  Just-Dice is.

I've never ignored anyone on this forum ever.  You're close to becoming the first.

= lol it's "fairer" than most>>you are technically in my brothers territory so you have to deal with the Qubecicans or Canadian moose jockeys ...whatever you are funny guy but soon I get all your coins! LOL =) weeeee

this is all i can say to this guy....

[infested999]

I keep my entire savings in my JD balance.

[itod]

you are technically in my brothers territory so you have to deal with the Qubecicans or Canadian moose jockeys ...whatever you are funny guy but soon I get all your coins! LOL =) weeeee

Whoever asks why dooglus has to remain anonymous just has to read something like this, and get the answer. It's a hard earned money for him when he has to think about retards like this one.

Edit:
dooglus, don't feed the troll any more pls.

[dooglus]

Whoever asks why dooglus has to remain anonymous just has to read something like this, and get the answer. It's a hard earned money for him when he has to think about retards like this one.

Edit:
dooglus, don't feed the troll any more pls.

I have an epic support ticket between myself and this guy.  I've tried screenshotting it for the amusement of the forum but I can't find any browser plugin that can create an image that large.

[dooglus]

No, it won't.  That's why you invest with thousands of other people, so that your collective bank can be very large.  Variance is the investor's friend, as gamblers are going to gamble.  Doog posted a graph of the total bets, and EVERY bet is already very very small with the exception of a teeny tiny amount of outliers.

As an investor, YOU WANT LARGER BETS because you have the edge!  You can't beat the house with "a few large bets and some discipline" because you don't have the advantage.  If what you are saying is true, then every casino ever would be broke.

Obviously realistically this doesn't really matter, as there are only like two people who can even think about touching the max bet number, and to be safe it could only really be raised by about 4x what it is right now, but the principle is still true.  The larger bets you are willing to take, with an edge, the more money you'll make in the long run.

He has a point.

Variance isn't the investor's friend, it's the player's friend.  Without variance the player loses 1% of every bet, and the investor gains 1% of every bet.  Variance is the only way the player can ever win.  Without it, he doesn't even bother playing.

Investors should prefer 100 bets of 1 BTC each than 1 bet of 100 BTC.  The expected profit for investors is the same in both cases, but the variance is much lower with the 100 bets than with the single large bet.

Of course if choosing between 100 bets of 1 BTC and 100 bets of 100 BTC, we'd prefer the bigger bets.

[FUR11]

No, it won't.  That's why you invest with thousands of other people, so that your collective bank can be very large.  Variance is the investor's friend, as gamblers are going to gamble.  Doog posted a graph of the total bets, and EVERY bet is already very very small with the exception of a teeny tiny amount of outliers.

As an investor, YOU WANT LARGER BETS because you have the edge!  You can't beat the house with "a few large bets and some discipline" because you don't have the advantage.  If what you are saying is true, then every casino ever would be broke.

Obviously realistically this doesn't really matter, as there are only like two people who can even think about touching the max bet number, and to be safe it could only really be raised by about 4x what it is right now, but the principle is still true.  The larger bets you are willing to take, with an edge, the more money you'll make in the long run.

He has a point.

Variance isn't the investor's friend, it's the player's friend.  Without variance the player loses 1% of every bet, and the investor gains 1% of every bet.  Variance is the only way the player can ever win.  Without it, he doesn't even bother playing.

Investors should prefer 100 bets of 1 BTC each than 1 bet of 100 BTC.  The expected profit for investors is the same in both cases, but the variance is much lower with the 100 bets than with the single large bet.

Of course if choosing between 100 bets of 1 BTC and 100 bets of 100 BTC, we'd prefer the bigger bets.

My point (which I didn't explain well) was that if a high roller runs above expectation...they usually don't say "oh, I ran hot, I should stop now".  They think "I'm unbeatable, I'm going to break the house!" and lose it all back and then some.  But if they run below expectation...they think they are due and gamble even more.  It's win/win for the investors since typically people are just going to lose everything they budgeted to gamble with, in the long term.  So having a bankroll big enough to withstand variance (ie the pooled investor pool) is a great thing because it's ok if someone runs hot and wins a bunch in one or two sessions.  Thus then, variance is the investor's friend because without variance there wouldn't be any gamblers because nobody would put in $1 knowing that every single time they would be getting $.99 back.

[DomenicoRomano]

...  Variance is the only way the player can ever win.  Without it, he doesn't even bother playing. ...

I'd like to test this.  I bet that if you created a game that has a fixed guaranteed return of -1% that people would still play.  For every bitcoin wagered 0.99 bitcoins is returned.

How about it Dooglus.  Can you create a site that is not only provably fair but deterministic.  In that you know exactly your return before you wager.

Gambling is an activity that is against the gamblers own financial interest.  Would that tendency to gamble away money work if there was no way to win.  I guess it wouldn't be gambling then.

Try it see what happens.

[nimda]

...  Variance is the only way the player can ever win.  Without it, he doesn't even bother playing. ...

I'd like to test this.  I bet that if you created a game that has a fixed guaranteed return of -1% that people would still play.  For every bitcoin wagered 0.99 bitcoins is returned.

How about it Dooglus.  Can you create a site that is not only provably fair but deterministic.  In that you know exactly your return before you wager.

Gambling is an activity that is against the gamblers own financial interest.  Would that tendency to gamble away money work if there was no way to win.  I guess it wouldn't be gambling then.

Try it see what happens.

I bet you'd see a few novelty bets and then silence.

[dooglus]

...  Variance is the only way the player can ever win.  Without it, he doesn't even bother playing. ...

I'd like to test this.  I bet that if you created a game that has a fixed guaranteed return of -1% that people would still play.  For every bitcoin wagered 0.99 bitcoins is returned.

How about it Dooglus.  Can you create a site that is not only provably fair but deterministic.  In that you know exactly your return before you wager.

Gambling is an activity that is against the gamblers own financial interest.  Would that tendency to gamble away money work if there was no way to win.  I guess it wouldn't be gambling then.

Try it see what happens.

The easiest way to test this would be to allow Just-Dice players to bet at 100%.  That has a payout of 0.99x, and is exactly what you're describing.

I wouldn't want the 'max chance' button to go there though, because that's just rude.  But I could allow players to type 100 into the chance box and accept the box.  It doesn't feel right though to give them no chance of winning, and I also really don't see why anyone (who understood it) would play.

Gamblers understand that a 49.5% chance of doubling their money is slightly less than fair, but it's close enough to fair that they're willing to take the chance.  But who wpuld ever accept a guaranteed loss of 1%?