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Author Topic: Just-Dice.com : now with added CLAMs : Play or Invest  (Read 431894 times)
pawel7777
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June 29, 2014, 02:34:19 PM
 #2961

dooglus can you disclose how much BTC have not been claimed? What will you do with them? Just curious

"Invested/site" shows 0.00000000 it would suggest that every satoshi has already been claimed (Huh).
On doge-dice there's still over 200m left.

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June 29, 2014, 03:36:54 PM
 #2962

Isnt botting discouraged on the site..

I don't encourage it because I don't want to support bots or hear from players who have lost their bankroll due to a malfunctioning bot.

But I don't discourage it either, so long as players run bots at their own risk.

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June 29, 2014, 03:59:58 PM
 #2963

dooglus can you disclose how much BTC have not been claimed? What will you do with them? Just curious

It's almost 6 days since we announced we were suspending betting, and our coin liability has fallen from over 53k BTC to a little under 6k BTC. I have been emailing the accounts that have email addresses associated with them, and trying to use other means to track down the owners of large balances which don't have email addresses. One guy for instance had no email address, but his username came up on google as being the same as a very active poster on a big poker forum - so I PM'ed the account on the poker forum. I will continue trying to reach people until withdrawals slow right down. I just woke up and see that they're still happening relatively quickly - logs from the last 2 hours show 5 smallish withdrawals:

Quote
2014-06-29 11:46:36 18.25475053 to 1MnQrZSQ4mfuwr2P3i2uDp8FoB1bSoo4bC txid d8feb8ab4bd367353b5db85142e13bc8ee5a0101c57aa85eaa3f3ea750ecc806
2014-06-29 11:59:37 2.17560387 to 17Vvi1ijXUBqGaDjeXKthcFjrKB4sasWEv txid 1ceb432db02d422e05b63f66e0391372e8d40632d0e770434bdb6231de93bbf5
2014-06-29 12:09:57 0.06153449 to 1HxWMeba93867ZXtgTdG5zH5C4DCJXd7EV txid ac932a456a07514694a2f2f9802c406072400d9900bde560ee0cd0bf9ab5be2e
2014-06-29 13:22:17 0.18582059 to 1K52ifECJp7mtRyW5c8io4s85E7KL8mzW8 txid b5690aeb1aefe08cc9e5157a7ad0a93e1d58bc44fa57a30c66b7f46002eec50b
2014-06-29 13:28:16 11.19270731 to 1GambdyBZ4K9jkb9KudxGtxmRPZGrqe5E8 txid 5c3b0b781050e7043c795abddea5b58c719e63c4e11b0215781dde66e052072c

A lot of the remaining balances have emergency withdrawal addresses associated with them. I'll use those as a last resort. And quite a few of the remaining balances are for users who set up 2FA to prevent fraudulent withdrawal, and then lost both their 2FA device and the paper backup they were instructed to make. I'm having those accounts wait for a period of time before disabling 2FA to give the real account owner a chance to withdraw.

The top 10 biggest account balances still on site are:

2247, 736, 692, 378, 314, 186, 143, 142, 133, 119, 73 BTC

The biggest one is accounted for - I reached him via forum PM and he'll be withdrawing soon.

There will inevitably be some accounts that still won't have been claimed after any given amount of time. I'm unclear on what I need to do with those. I don't want to still be "dealing with virtual currency" once regulations are being enforced that require me to collect private information on customers, so I'd like to get it all cleared up before those regulations are written. But I also don't want to be in the situation that someone remembers their JD account in a year's time, asks me for their coins and I have to say "sorry, I gave them away". Any suggestions? Is it reasonable to give a cut-off date after which remaining balances are forfeit?

"Invested/site" shows 0.00000000 it would suggest that every satoshi has already been claimed (Huh).
On doge-dice there's still over 200m left.

On JD I went through the accounts and divested everyone. It turned out there were 30 accounts with less than half a satoshi invested, which I couldn't divest. Those 30 sub-satoshi amounts summed to 5 satoshis. I changed the site code to allow me to divest those too so the bankroll went to zero, at which point an obscure bug was triggered which made the site forget everyone's "base" and "principal" figures, meaning that if/when the site comes back up, all investors would be due for commission from the start, even the ones who have already overpaid, and also everyone's investment profit was showing zero.

I pulled the lost data from a recent backup. I can highly recommend Tarsnap for your server backup needs:

Quote
Tarsnap works on a prepaid model based on actual usage.

Storage:   250 picodollars / byte-month
($0.25 / GB-month)

Bandwidth:   250 picodollars / byte
($0.25 / GB)

These prices are based on the actual number of bytes stored and the actual number of bytes of bandwidth used — after compression and data deduplication. This makes Tarsnap ideal for daily backups — many users have hundreds of archives adding up to several terabytes, but pay less than $10/month.

I pay about 50 US cents per day (in Bitcoin) to maintain up-to-date encrypted backups of all server data and wallets.

So I recovered the data, put it back on the server, and now everything's fine again, but I didn't want to repeat the mistake on DD.

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June 29, 2014, 07:00:44 PM
 #2964

But I also don't want to be in the situation that someone remembers their JD account in a year's time, asks me for their coins and I have to say "sorry, I gave them away". Any suggestions? Is it reasonable to give a cut-off date after which remaining balances are forfeit?

Cut-off date is perfectly reasonable. Well, unless you're planning to re-launch the same site from different BTC/gambling friendly country. Then you can just move the investments there, with the same login/password.

But if that's not the case, just give everyone something between 2 weeks - 1 month time, announce that on official threads + /r/Bitcoin and /r/dogecoin and it should be fine. After all, everyone could submit email/emergency withdrawal address for the situations like this one. If they didn't - their loss.

Think you should keep any unclaimed funds just to be on a safe side. There's always a risk that authorities can question you about it (not likely, but still). And just hold on to it for whatever is the expiration period, after which they cannot charge you with anything (5 years?).

PS. I used both JD and DD, it was a pleasant experience. Thanks for that

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June 29, 2014, 07:34:24 PM
 #2965

Wow I thought this was just a rumor and didn't think it was going to amount to anything..  I'd have to agree with a cut of date being re seasonable.  If you post a message on soical networking sites for just dice and the thread that should make users aware.  Also a message on the site and emails would be a good idea if possible.. 
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June 29, 2014, 09:18:25 PM
 #2966

There will inevitably be some accounts that still won't have been claimed after any given amount of time. I'm unclear on what I need to do with those. I don't want to still be "dealing with virtual currency" once regulations are being enforced that require me to collect private information on customers, so I'd like to get it all cleared up before those regulations are written. But I also don't want to be in the situation that someone remembers their JD account in a year's time, asks me for their coins and I have to say "sorry, I gave them away". Any suggestions?
Can't you just hold onto them in a "non-business" way and add a discrete and non-direct message on the website saying: "Persons whose bitcoins I am still 'keeping safe' can contact me at x"?
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June 29, 2014, 09:21:03 PM
 #2967

Is it reasonable to give a cut-off date after which remaining balances are forfeit?

I believe someone who is not taking closer looks of what is happening would be very pissed when he founds out he missed some cut-off date, which he was never informed ever existed. It's very reasonable to assume there are lot of people trusting the site and never bother to check their BTC, treating the site as some kind of online wallet service. Of course you can not take care of their money forever, but one month cut-off date looks very, very short to me. If you ever decide to go this route, and inevitable face some very pissed off people in the future, make that cut-off date much longer, at least a few months, to maximize the chances one will eventually check what's happening. Also, i think it's very reasonable to change the front page with clear notification that end-of-service is closing. Notification in the chat area is not enough.

May I suggest other course of action that may solve your problems: Find a trustable escrow service, who is willing to deal with this situation, and send all cut-off money to them. This way you are relieved of all your obligations to the government because you are no longer in control of the funds, and those coins would be eventually retrievable from the escrow when some day owners remember they had some funds on JD.

   
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June 29, 2014, 10:37:50 PM
 #2968

Is it reasonable to give a cut-off date after which remaining balances are forfeit?

I believe someone who is not taking closer looks of what is happening would be very pissed when he founds out he missed some cut-off date, which he was never informed ever existed. It's very reasonable to assume there are lot of people trusting the site and never bother to check their BTC, treating the site as some kind of online wallet service. Of course you can not take care of their money forever, but one month cut-off date looks very, very short to me. If you ever decide to go this route, and inevitable face some very pissed off people in the future, make that cut-off date much longer, at least a few months, to maximize the chances one will eventually check what's happening. Also, i think it's very reasonable to change the front page with clear notification that end-of-service is closing. Notification in the chat area is not enough.

May I suggest other course of action that may solve your problems: Find a trustable escrow service, who is willing to deal with this situation, and send all cut-off money to them. This way you are relieved of all your obligations to the government because you are no longer in control of the funds, and those coins would be eventually retrievable from the escrow when some day owners remember they had some funds on JD.

I agree to this, what if someone went on holiday for a month or so? Or what if someone invested and just waited for a fee months before  checking up on it because he doesn't immediatly need his bitcoins and he does not feel the need to check back often?


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.ALL.ME.*
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▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬  BOUNTY all.MEJan 29th - May, 8th, 2018  ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
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June 29, 2014, 10:43:38 PM
 #2969

Is it reasonable to give a cut-off date after which remaining balances are forfeit?

I believe someone who is not taking closer looks of what is happening would be very pissed when he founds out he missed some cut-off date, which he was never informed ever existed. It's very reasonable to assume there are lot of people trusting the site and never bother to check their BTC, treating the site as some kind of online wallet service. Of course you can not take care of their money forever, but one month cut-off date looks very, very short to me. If you ever decide to go this route, and inevitable face some very pissed off people in the future, make that cut-off date much longer, at least a few months, to maximize the chances one will eventually check what's happening. Also, i think it's very reasonable to change the front page with clear notification that end-of-service is closing. Notification in the chat area is not enough.

May I suggest other course of action that may solve your problems: Find a trustable escrow service, who is willing to deal with this situation, and send all cut-off money to them. This way you are relieved of all your obligations to the government because you are no longer in control of the funds, and those coins would be eventually retrievable from the escrow when some day owners remember they had some funds on JD.

I agree to this, what if someone went on holiday for a month or so? Or what if someone invested and just waited for a fee months before  checking up on it because he doesn't immediatly need his bitcoins and he does not feel the need to check back often?


This what the emergency return address is for.

Bitcoin network and pool analysis 12QxPHEuxDrs7mCyGSx1iVSozTwtquDB3r
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June 29, 2014, 11:19:56 PM
 #2970


It's almost 6 days since we announced we were suspending betting, and our coin liability has fallen from over 53k BTC to a little under 6k BTC.

The top 10 biggest account balances still on site are:

2247, 736, 692, 378, 314, 186, 143, 142, 133, 119, 73 BTC

The biggest one is accounted for - I reached him via forum PM and he'll be withdrawing soon.

So beyond those 10 accounts you still have over 800 BTC left. Is that spread over 50 acounts or 1000 accounts or 5000 accounts?

I don't know how much trouble you have to go through to track accounts of less than 1 BTC.

Wine loved I deeply, dice dearly -Shakespeare
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June 30, 2014, 01:52:51 AM
 #2971


It's almost 6 days since we announced we were suspending betting, and our coin liability has fallen from over 53k BTC to a little under 6k BTC.

The top 10 biggest account balances still on site are:

2247, 736, 692, 378, 314, 186, 143, 142, 133, 119, 73 BTC

The biggest one is accounted for - I reached him via forum PM and he'll be withdrawing soon.

So beyond those 10 accounts you still have over 800 BTC left. Is that spread over 50 acounts or 1000 accounts or 5000 accounts?

I don't know how much trouble you have to go through to track accounts of less than 1 BTC.

The biggest one is fully withdrawn now, leaving:

736, 692, 378, 314, 186, 143, 142, 133, 119, 73, 71, 52, 43, 41, 30, 29, 27, 26, 25, 24, 22, 18, 17, 15, 14, 2*13, 3*12, 11, 2*10, 2*9, 3*8, 2*6, 4*5, 5*4, 12*3, 14*2, 57*1

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June 30, 2014, 03:17:08 AM
 #2972

The biggest one is fully withdrawn now, leaving:
736, 692, 378, 314, 186, 143, 142, 133, 119, 73, 71, 52, 43, 41, 30, 29, 27, 26, 25, 24, 22, 18, 17, 15, 14, 2*13, 3*12, 11, 2*10, 2*9, 3*8, 2*6, 4*5, 5*4, 12*3, 14*2, 57*1

If you have an investment over $400K and you don't look it once a week, that is just God telling you that you have too much money.

But seriously, people can't be that oblivious. I have to believe your balance will be below 100BTC in a few days.

Wine loved I deeply, dice dearly -Shakespeare
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June 30, 2014, 04:48:00 AM
 #2973

If you have an investment over $400K and you don't look it once a week, that is just God telling you that you have too much money.

There have been early adopters in chat that apparently didn't care about losing a few hundred thousand $$$ before. I wouldn't be surprised if some of these "investors" would never come back at all just the same.

I think doog should just keep them in some cold wallet. Doesn't cost anything and should they ever claim their coins it won't turn into a problem.
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June 30, 2014, 09:44:06 AM
 #2974

Is it reasonable to give a cut-off date after which remaining balances are forfeit?

I believe someone who is not taking closer looks of what is happening would be very pissed when he founds out he missed some cut-off date, which he was never informed ever existed. It's very reasonable to assume there are lot of people trusting the site and never bother to check their BTC, treating the site as some kind of online wallet service. Of course you can not take care of their money forever, but one month cut-off date looks very, very short to me. If you ever decide to go this route, and inevitable face some very pissed off people in the future, make that cut-off date much longer, at least a few months, to maximize the chances one will eventually check what's happening. Also, i think it's very reasonable to change the front page with clear notification that end-of-service is closing. Notification in the chat area is not enough.

May I suggest other course of action that may solve your problems: Find a trustable escrow service, who is willing to deal with this situation, and send all cut-off money to them. This way you are relieved of all your obligations to the government because you are no longer in control of the funds, and those coins would be eventually retrievable from the escrow when some day owners remember they had some funds on JD.

I agree to this, what if someone went on holiday for a month or so? Or what if someone invested and just waited for a fee months before  checking up on it because he doesn't immediatly need his bitcoins and he does not feel the need to check back often?


This what the emergency return address is for.

Oh right, good point, I guess if you don't log in every once in a while and don't set an emergency adress it is pretty much your own fault.

It's not like Dooglus didn't offer enough methods to withdraw.

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June 30, 2014, 10:08:23 AM
 #2975

You keep allowing withdrawals and try to contact investors then you use the emergency adresses like you said.

The accounts that will still show a balance can be linked to a trusted escrow that you pay with the BTC left : something like 1% of the total every month and the escrow needs to take care of giving the BTC back or not to those who claim it
It is not ideal by any means but it solves your problem and you are not legally liable of dealing with crypto anymore

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June 30, 2014, 10:35:02 AM
 #2976

good luck on whatever you do next.


july 1st just-dice and doge-dice will be off the top 100 rankings


its hard for me to do but will put them back up if you ever takes bets again.


http://cryptobettingindex.com/


no more pics from me to get your woody like pittsburg steel Angry
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June 30, 2014, 11:06:36 AM
 #2977

How much BTC is there that cannot be sent to an emergency address or will not be sent soon to users that cannot access their account because of F2A?

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June 30, 2014, 01:47:46 PM
 #2978

I reallllly enjoyed the site Sad shame to see it close its doors....

  
  
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June 30, 2014, 03:06:56 PM
 #2979

The biggest one is fully withdrawn now, leaving:
736, 692, 378, 314, 186, 143, 142, 133, 119, 73, 71, 52, 43, 41, 30, 29, 27, 26, 25, 24, 22, 18, 17, 15, 14, 2*13, 3*12, 11, 2*10, 2*9, 3*8, 2*6, 4*5, 5*4, 12*3, 14*2, 57*1

If you have an investment over $400K and you don't look it once a week, that is just God telling you that you have too much money.

You've no idea how scary it is watching a large investment go up and down like crazy on Just-Dice. I often divested when a whale was playing, only to miss out on their eventual big loss. If I had just closed my eyes and let it ride I would have done so much better.

Maybe that's what some of these people are doing - they don't want the emotional rollercoaster of wins and losses, and trust the math to work its magic long term.

The biggest remaining (736) balance attempted to withdraw recently, but the hot wallet ran dry. I've refilled it now.

Remaining balances (rounded down to integers):

Jun 26 02:29 - total: 12111

2694, 2247, 736, 692, 528, 490, 394, 378, 314, 164, 143, 142, 133, 119, 118, 94, 92, 75, 73, 71, 66, 65, 60, 57, 55, 53, 52, 50, 2*47, 46, 44, 2*43, 42, 2*41, 37, 36, 35, 34, 30, 29, 2*28, 27, 26, 2*25, 24, 2*22, 4*21, 2*20, 19, 2*18, 2*17, 2*15, 3*14, 3*13, 6*12, 4*11, 7*10, 7*9, 5*8, 4*7, 3*6, 7*5, 8*4, 19*3, 26*2, 92*1, 3914*0

Jun 26 15:15 - total: 10083

2247, 1000, 736, 692, 528, 490, 394, 378, 314, 187, 143, 142, 133, 119, 118, 94, 75, 73, 71, 67, 66, 60, 57, 55, 53, 52, 50, 2*47, 46, 44, 43, 41, 37, 36, 35, 30, 29, 28, 27, 26, 2*25, 24, 2*22, 3*21, 2*20, 19, 2*18, 2*17, 2*15, 3*14, 3*13, 5*12, 4*11, 6*10, 7*9, 5*8, 2*7, 3*6, 7*5, 7*4, 19*3, 25*2, 89*1, 3892*0

Jun 27 21:36 - total: 7378

2247, 736, 692, 528, 394, 378, 314, 186, 143, 142, 133, 119, 94, 73, 71, 57, 52, 43, 41, 30, 29, 2*28, 27, 26, 2*25, 24, 2*22, 2*21, 2*18, 17, 15, 2*14, 2*13, 3*12, 2*11, 3*10, 3*9, 4*8, 2*6, 5*5, 6*4, 14*3, 16*2, 59*1, 3814*0

Jun 28 01:57 - total: 6626

2247, 736, 692, 378, 344, 314, 186, 143, 142, 133, 119, 73, 71, 57, 52, 43, 41, 30, 29, 27, 26, 2*25, 24, 22, 2*21, 2*18, 17, 15, 2*14, 2*13, 3*12, 2*11, 3*10, 3*9, 4*8, 2*6, 5*5, 6*4, 14*3, 16*2, 59*1, 3808*0

Jun 29 15:40 - total: 6104

2247, 736, 692, 378, 314, 186, 143, 142, 133, 119, 73, 71, 52, 43, 41, 30, 29, 27, 26, 25, 24, 22, 20, 18, 17, 15, 14, 2*13, 3*12, 11, 3*10, 3*9, 4*8, 2*6, 4*5, 5*4, 12*3, 14*2, 58*1, 3793*0

Jun 30 01:25 - total: 3807

736, 692, 378, 314, 186, 143, 142, 133, 119, 73, 71, 52, 43, 41, 30, 29, 27, 26, 25, 24, 22, 18, 17, 15, 14, 2*13, 3*12, 11, 2*10, 2*9, 3*8, 2*6, 4*5, 5*4, 12*3, 14*2, 57*1, 3791*0

Jun 30 14:42 - total: 3228

692, 378, 361, 314, 186, 143, 133, 119, 73, 71, 52, 43, 41, 29, 27, 26, 25, 24, 22, 18, 15, 14, 2*13, 3*12, 11, 2*10, 2*9, 3*8, 2*6, 4*5, 4*4, 11*3, 13*2, 56*1, 3786*0

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boumalo
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June 30, 2014, 03:46:11 PM
 #2980

The biggest one is fully withdrawn now, leaving:
736, 692, 378, 314, 186, 143, 142, 133, 119, 73, 71, 52, 43, 41, 30, 29, 27, 26, 25, 24, 22, 18, 17, 15, 14, 2*13, 3*12, 11, 2*10, 2*9, 3*8, 2*6, 4*5, 5*4, 12*3, 14*2, 57*1

If you have an investment over $400K and you don't look it once a week, that is just God telling you that you have too much money.

You've no idea how scary it is watching a large investment go up and down like crazy on Just-Dice. I often divested when a whale was playing, only to miss out on their eventual big loss. If I had just closed my eyes and let it ride I would have done so much better.

Maybe that's what some of these people are doing - they don't want the emotional rollercoaster of wins and losses, and trust the math to work its magic long term.

The biggest remaining (736) balance attempted to withdraw recently, but the hot wallet ran dry. I've refilled it now.

Remaining balances (rounded down to integers):

Jun 26 02:29 - total: 12111

2694, 2247, 736, 692, 528, 490, 394, 378, 314, 164, 143, 142, 133, 119, 118, 94, 92, 75, 73, 71, 66, 65, 60, 57, 55, 53, 52, 50, 2*47, 46, 44, 2*43, 42, 2*41, 37, 36, 35, 34, 30, 29, 2*28, 27, 26, 2*25, 24, 2*22, 4*21, 2*20, 19, 2*18, 2*17, 2*15, 3*14, 3*13, 6*12, 4*11, 7*10, 7*9, 5*8, 4*7, 3*6, 7*5, 8*4, 19*3, 26*2, 92*1, 3914*0

Jun 26 15:15 - total: 10083

2247, 1000, 736, 692, 528, 490, 394, 378, 314, 187, 143, 142, 133, 119, 118, 94, 75, 73, 71, 67, 66, 60, 57, 55, 53, 52, 50, 2*47, 46, 44, 43, 41, 37, 36, 35, 30, 29, 28, 27, 26, 2*25, 24, 2*22, 3*21, 2*20, 19, 2*18, 2*17, 2*15, 3*14, 3*13, 5*12, 4*11, 6*10, 7*9, 5*8, 2*7, 3*6, 7*5, 7*4, 19*3, 25*2, 89*1, 3892*0

Jun 27 21:36 - total: 7378

2247, 736, 692, 528, 394, 378, 314, 186, 143, 142, 133, 119, 94, 73, 71, 57, 52, 43, 41, 30, 29, 2*28, 27, 26, 2*25, 24, 2*22, 2*21, 2*18, 17, 15, 2*14, 2*13, 3*12, 2*11, 3*10, 3*9, 4*8, 2*6, 5*5, 6*4, 14*3, 16*2, 59*1, 3814*0

Jun 28 01:57 - total: 6626

2247, 736, 692, 378, 344, 314, 186, 143, 142, 133, 119, 73, 71, 57, 52, 43, 41, 30, 29, 27, 26, 2*25, 24, 22, 2*21, 2*18, 17, 15, 2*14, 2*13, 3*12, 2*11, 3*10, 3*9, 4*8, 2*6, 5*5, 6*4, 14*3, 16*2, 59*1, 3808*0

Jun 29 15:40 - total: 6104

2247, 736, 692, 378, 314, 186, 143, 142, 133, 119, 73, 71, 52, 43, 41, 30, 29, 27, 26, 25, 24, 22, 20, 18, 17, 15, 14, 2*13, 3*12, 11, 3*10, 3*9, 4*8, 2*6, 4*5, 5*4, 12*3, 14*2, 58*1, 3793*0

Jun 30 01:25 - total: 3807

736, 692, 378, 314, 186, 143, 142, 133, 119, 73, 71, 52, 43, 41, 30, 29, 27, 26, 25, 24, 22, 18, 17, 15, 14, 2*13, 3*12, 11, 2*10, 2*9, 3*8, 2*6, 4*5, 5*4, 12*3, 14*2, 57*1, 3791*0

Jun 30 14:42 - total: 3228

692, 378, 361, 314, 186, 143, 133, 119, 73, 71, 52, 43, 41, 29, 27, 26, 25, 24, 22, 18, 15, 14, 2*13, 3*12, 11, 2*10, 2*9, 3*8, 2*6, 4*5, 4*4, 11*3, 13*2, 56*1, 3786*0

Very interesting numbers; about 95% of the BTC invested were already withdrawn then

It makes sense to invest then let it ride compared to get pointless emotions and losing time looking at the performance every single day

BTW, how much BTC is there that cannot be sent to an emergency address or will not be sent soon to users that cannot access their account because of F2A?

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