[BitFunder] - ADDICTION - KNCMiner - Now hashing at 14+TH!

[Voodah]

Hi tyrion,

Received my direct divs. Thanks a lot for the flawless work and execution. Everything on your side has been great.

Investment wise however, this has been terrible !  (I'm not complaining, just making some conclusions)

I was in Groupbuy 2 and if the predictions the guys here have been making are right (which they are so far) I will end up with somewhere around 1/3 of my original BTC.

So I was wondering a couple things and wanna ask you all out there:

how has this been for everyone else on the other buys??

what does this mean in a wider sense??
KNC surely seemed like the safest bet out there when we all got in.. if it went so wrong for us, I çan't imagine for the rest..

has every single mining investment in this 2nd gen wave failed by this much ?? does anyone know of a (prior) succesful one?

And again, thanks for everything tyrion, this is definitely not a complaint

It was all gone well with the share price was reaching at average high of 0.012btc per share until the share price was tanked down below to 0.006btc, and then 0.002 due to bitfunder closing down the market for the US user

What ?? NO. I think you are seriously misunderstanding the situation.

Share price had absolutely nothing to do with this deal's ROI (even though its volatility may have helped some to hedge out as stated above) and the same goes for Bitfunder's closure. In fact, some people (like me) didn't even bother going to BF, so the share price doesn't even enter my calculations.

It's pretty simple actually, difficulty rose (a lot) more than people expected, and the miners started mining 1.5-2 months later than expected. There was no ROI to be had.

On papers, KNC seemed a lot safer than BFL. In reality though, all miner companies have proven to be the same border-line scam. They all delivered (and continue to do so) equipment that is absolutely incapable of achieving ROI.

This boggles my mind.

Who is being profitable in the mining business (and how)?
Has it become something where only AM, KNC, BFL, etc., themselves make money?

I tell you.. it's blatantly obvious we're all being used. This 2nd gen wave was simply scandalous all across the board. Not a single product capable of mining itself out. In any other business they would've all gone bankrupt. Here, they are the only ones making money. Sad shit.

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[DavidMc0]

What ?? NO. I think you are seriously misunderstanding the situation.

Share price had absolutely nothing to do with this deal's ROI (even though its volatility may have helped some to hedge out as stated above) and the same goes for Bitfunder's closure. In fact, some people (like me) didn't even bother going to BF, so the share price doesn't even enter my calculations.

It's pretty simple actually, difficulty rose (a lot) more than people expected, and the miners started mining 1.5-2 months later than expected. There was no ROI to be had.

On papers, KNC seemed a lot safer than BFL. In reality though, all miner companies have proven to be the same border-line scam. They all delivered (and continue to do so) equipment that is absolutely incapable of achieving ROI.

This boggles my mind.

Who is being profitable in the mining business (and how)?
Has it become something where only AM, KNC, BFL, etc., themselves make money?

I tell you.. it's blatantly obvious we're all being used. This 2nd gen wave was simply scandalous all across the board. Not a single product capable of mining itself out. In any other business they would've all gone bankrupt. Here, they are the only ones making money. Sad shit.

It does seem bad in hindsight, but the ASIC miner manufacturers chose prices that seemed reasonable at the time, given what was expected to happen to the difficulty, delivery dates, and hashing power of the units.

KnC actually delivered significantly higher spec equipment than people paid for, and pretty close to on time.

Everyone who invested expected that they would get more BTC out of the deal than they put in, or they wouldn't have gone ahead, but unfortunately the difficulty rose faster that we all expected, and so we will all lose out.

KnC's business model would have depended on selling hardware at higher prices initially, so I'm sure they can't just refund, or give our extra hardware to make sure their customers.

It's an unpredictable world, and unfortunately the only way to make money from mining seems to be making mining equipment.  You can't really blame the ASIC producers for our loss, as we decided their price was good enough to take a chance on.

[justanickname]

What ?? NO. I think you are seriously misunderstanding the situation.

Share price had absolutely nothing to do with this deal's ROI (even though its volatility may have helped some to hedge out as stated above) and the same goes for Bitfunder's closure. In fact, some people (like me) didn't even bother going to BF, so the share price doesn't even enter my calculations.

It's pretty simple actually, difficulty rose (a lot) more than people expected, and the miners started mining 1.5-2 months later than expected. There was no ROI to be had.

On papers, KNC seemed a lot safer than BFL. In reality though, all miner companies have proven to be the same border-line scam. They all delivered (and continue to do so) equipment that is absolutely incapable of achieving ROI.

This boggles my mind.

Who is being profitable in the mining business (and how)?
Has it become something where only AM, KNC, BFL, etc., themselves make money?

I tell you.. it's blatantly obvious we're all being used. This 2nd gen wave was simply scandalous all across the board. Not a single product capable of mining itself out. In any other business they would've all gone bankrupt. Here, they are the only ones making money. Sad shit.

It does seem bad in hindsight, but the ASIC miner manufacturers chose prices that seemed reasonable at the time, given what was expected to happen to the difficulty, delivery dates, and hashing power of the units.

KnC actually delivered significantly higher spec equipment than people paid for, and pretty close to on time.

Everyone who invested expected that they would get more BTC out of the deal than they put in, or they wouldn't have gone ahead, but unfortunately the difficulty rose faster that we all expected, and so we will all lose out.

KnC's business model would have depended on selling hardware at higher prices initially, so I'm sure they can't just refund, or give our extra hardware to make sure their customers.

It's an unpredictable world, and unfortunately the only way to make money from mining seems to be making mining equipment.  You can't really blame the ASIC producers for our loss, as we decided their price was good enough to take a chance on.

I think that if KNC truly cares about their costumers
They should not start to produce the 2nd batch.
Instead offer 2nd batch customers a BTC refund or make them the first preorders in line for their second gen miners.
Delivering 2nd batch now will hurt both batch 1 and batch 2 for obvious reasons(and maybe delay 2nd gen production because of the time spent on 2nd batch production).
KNC earned a lot till now. I assume they can afford to wait for a while with their sales.
KNC stated they will not forget their costumers. Here is their chance to prove it! (which they won't, of course).

[hasher87]

just curious, now that's bitfunder is definitely going off soon, will you be bringing this, or the future gb, to cryptostocks?

[namzycad3]

What ?? NO. I think you are seriously misunderstanding the situation.

Share price had absolutely nothing to do with this deal's ROI (even though its volatility may have helped some to hedge out as stated above) and the same goes for Bitfunder's closure. In fact, some people (like me) didn't even bother going to BF, so the share price doesn't even enter my calculations.

It's pretty simple actually, difficulty rose (a lot) more than people expected, and the miners started mining 1.5-2 months later than expected. There was no ROI to be had.

On papers, KNC seemed a lot safer than BFL. In reality though, all miner companies have proven to be the same border-line scam. They all delivered (and continue to do so) equipment that is absolutely incapable of achieving ROI.

This boggles my mind.

Who is being profitable in the mining business (and how)?
Has it become something where only AM, KNC, BFL, etc., themselves make money?

I tell you.. it's blatantly obvious we're all being used. This 2nd gen wave was simply scandalous all across the board. Not a single product capable of mining itself out. In any other business they would've all gone bankrupt. Here, they are the only ones making money. Sad shit.

It does seem bad in hindsight, but the ASIC miner manufacturers chose prices that seemed reasonable at the time, given what was expected to happen to the difficulty, delivery dates, and hashing power of the units.

KnC actually delivered significantly higher spec equipment than people paid for, and pretty close to on time.

Everyone who invested expected that they would get more BTC out of the deal than they put in, or they wouldn't have gone ahead, but unfortunately the difficulty rose faster that we all expected, and so we will all lose out.

KnC's business model would have depended on selling hardware at higher prices initially, so I'm sure they can't just refund, or give our extra hardware to make sure their customers.

It's an unpredictable world, and unfortunately the only way to make money from mining seems to be making mining equipment.  You can't really blame the ASIC producers for our loss, as we decided their price was good enough to take a chance on.

I think that if KNC truly cares about their costumers
They should not start to produce the 2nd batch.
Instead offer 2nd batch customers a BTC refund or make them the first preorders in line for their second gen miners.
Delivering 2nd batch now will hurt both batch 1 and batch 2 for obvious reasons(and maybe delay 2nd gen production because of the time spent on 2nd batch production).
KNC earned a lot till now. I assume they can afford to wait for a while with their sales.
KNC stated they will not forget their costumers. Here is their chance to prove it! (which they won't, of course).

but dont forget too, if they dont make enough unit they cant cover the cost, especially those minimum order for the chip to be produce.

[bobboooiie]

didnt knc promised they will not sell 2nd batch before like February or something like that in order to protect their customers ? I know things changed and they are not profitable miners even now but still they promised it so if they want to break it they better do good to their previous customers

[nucleon]

I can't understand the complaints.

What is the percentage return for you guys? 1-2% ish per day?

Go find me an investment that returns that today. (You might be able to make that on highly leveraged options)

Looking at last dividend, 80ish BTC, on 6ish BTC expenses.

As long as the equipment is running, The global hash rate can increase to 10x what it is today, and we're still making >10% on operating expenses.

The good thing about buying at the KnC level, is that the efficiency might be good enough to last out this crazy global hash rate increase at the moment. Once the hash rate settles down to a more modest increase rate, we might still be standing and making BTC above expenses.

The Dec-Jan period will be interesting with release of Cointerra. If we can ride out this increase...we'll be doing well.

-- Craig

[justanickname]

I can't understand the complaints.

What is the percentage return for you guys? 1-2% ish per day?

Go find me an investment that returns that today. (You might be able to make that on highly leveraged options)

Looking at last dividend, 80ish BTC, on 6ish BTC expenses.

As long as the equipment is running, The global hash rate can increase to 10x what it is today, and we're still making >10% on operating expenses.

The good thing about buying at the KnC level, is that the efficiency might be good enough to last out this crazy global hash rate increase at the moment. Once the hash rate settles down to a more modest increase rate, we might still be standing and making BTC above expenses.

The Dec-Jan period will be interesting with release of Cointerra. If we can ride out this increase...we'll be doing well.

-- Craig

if you think we are doing well, you are more than welcome to buy my shares! I originally payed 0.3BTCfor each share. By now I received 0.059BTC
in dividends per share so I am willing to sell it for 0.241BTC per share.
Interested?  (friendly advice: don't buy you will never ROI most likely).

[hasher87]

I can't understand the complaints.

What is the percentage return for you guys? 1-2% ish per day?

Go find me an investment that returns that today. (You might be able to make that on highly leveraged options)

Looking at last dividend, 80ish BTC, on 6ish BTC expenses.

As long as the equipment is running, The global hash rate can increase to 10x what it is today, and we're still making >10% on operating expenses.

The good thing about buying at the KnC level, is that the efficiency might be good enough to last out this crazy global hash rate increase at the moment. Once the hash rate settles down to a more modest increase rate, we might still be standing and making BTC above expenses.

The Dec-Jan period will be interesting with release of Cointerra. If we can ride out this increase...we'll be doing well.

-- Craig

if you think we are doing well, you are more than welcome to buy my shares! I originally payed 0.3BTCfor each share. By now I received 0.059BTC
in dividends per share so I am willing to sell it for 0.241BTC per share.
Interested?  (friendly advice: don't buy you will never ROI most likely).

the only winner here is those who managed to sell their share prices when the price was 0.01 and ended up buying it all again at the price of 0.003-0.005

I know i did, if i stuck with my initial IPO investment, i would only have 600 shares altogether, as opposed to what i have now 3500 shares (which i sold it already, too bad hehe)

[maqifrnswa]

This is a phenomenally run offering. BTC losses are my fault and have nothing to do with tyrion and blastbobb, but this should be the model for all future group buys.

One thing people forget, tyrion and blastbobb bought into this as well. Many other group buys were organized by people with no skin in the game.

[Ashitank]

I own 0 shares in this group buy but I do admire & acknowledge Tyrion and BlastBobb very professional & friendly & open & clear way of running this group buy , RESPECT !

[tyrion70]

Hey all,

Thank you all for your kind words! That really means a lot to us!

I've just processed some emails again, the latest share list is here: http://pastebin.com/EyXWvciE

There are now 33325 shares left on bitfunder from 84 different users. A number of users have let us know that they can't transfer due to 2FA issues. We can possibly help with that if your want. Just let us know through PM or Email.

We need at least a confirmation that the btc address you have used in bitfunder is correct so please let us know if that is the case, or transfer the shares to us before December.

Once again the transfer process:

Transfer your shares to the ADDICTION account on bitfunder and send an email to p2poolnl@gmail.com containing:
- Your bitfunder name
- The number of shares transferred
- The BTC address you want to use for payouts. Make sure you use an address you actually own and can sign messages with!

Don't do this on Sundays because of dividend payments

[Kokomoka]

Does someone of you experienced issues with BTC payment from WeEx? Yesterday I paid out 14 BTC and still processing :/ I want my Coins

I've been waiting since the 6th of November. I only have around 0.2 BTC on withdrawal though, I feel for you with 14 BTC.

[btceic]

It's nearly dividend day again and we are already at 82+ BTC (last weeks was around 85), and we have 2.5 days to go, this weeks dividend will be better than last weeks!

[pascal257]

For those who have not transfered their shares yet: I still have 3537 shares left on BF, drop me a line with an offer.
I don't like that direct share BS, so I'd like to sell soon.

[namzycad3]

For those who have not transfered their shares yet: I still have 3537 shares left on BF, drop me a line with an offer.
I don't like that direct share BS, so I'd like to sell soon.

there is something wrong with weex, my fund and tons of others are stuck there, for more than a week now. my advice ? transfer to direct share first then only deal outside bf. if u trade there and your fund stuck forever thats it. who knows whats going happen next.

[fligen]

ukyo doesnt have the funds. sold 1000 btc locally a week ago. users funds.

trace you weex blockchain trail.

[equipoise]

For those who have not transfered their shares yet: I still have 3537 shares left on BF, drop me a line with an offer.
I don't like that direct share BS, so I'd like to sell soon.

there is something wrong with weex, my fund and tons of others are stuck there, for more than a week now. my advice ? transfer to direct share first then only deal outside bf. if u trade there and your fund stuck forever thats it. who knows whats going happen next.

Don't frighten me :O my 14 BTC still pending in payout

As far as I know we-exchange is manually transferring for some time now and there are huge delays. I hope you'll receive your Bitcoins and I think you don't need to panic.

[tyrion70]

ukyo doesnt have the funds. sold 1000 btc locally a week ago. users funds.

trace you weex blockchain trail.

Any proof for that, or just FUD?

I know a lot of people (including ourselves) have btc stuck in weex. So far Ukyo has responded to topics and has explained what the issue is (issues with his bitcoind client). Although that in itself isn't proof of anything either I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt. If he wanted to disappear with all the btc he would have been gone already

It sucks but nothing to do but wait I guess..

[fk1]

Since I missed bitfunders closing: any last options for my shares to change in btc?