[BitFunder] - ADDICTION - KNCMiner - Now hashing at 14+TH!

[tyrion70]

does someone received btc from weex? >:(something is wrong

More people (including us) are experiencing issues with weex. Last official information is here;
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=348468.0

The owner of Bitfunder (Ukyo) has asked for help from Neo&Bee apparently. We're hoping they fix these issues soon. This was one of the main reasons why we stopped payments on bitfunder but switched to direct payments..

[hardinero007]

hi boss, i heard that jupiters can be sold in market for 25 btc each.  if 1 btc=1k usd, then that's 25k usd.  i dont know if this rumor is true.  but if its true, do you think its a good idea to sell our miners at 25 btc each?

[philipma1957]

hi boss, i heard that jupiters can be sold in market for 25 btc each.  if 1 btc=1k usd, then that's 25k usd.  i dont know if this rumor is true.  but if its true, do you think its a good idea to sell our miners at 25 btc each?

Our group buy is going to sell one of our 2.  read this thread and look at my test probe for a usa ebay price.  Also see that I figured a way to force BTC and not paypal on an ebay sale.  this would mean no chargebacks.  

I can help tyrion70 with instructions on an ebay sale that will accept only BTC.

look at this thread  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=334360.0

see this post on the thread.  this is from page 4 post 77.

the offer history.  I am going to be gone for a few days I ended the listing as I feared someone would pay the 32222 asking price is I left it up!







and the ad

[hardpick]

I believe each kncminer cost about 60 BTC ( when btc was about $110)

selling for 25 BTC is loss in btc  ( not a $ loss)---- I hope over the life of the kncminer we will at least get the same amount of BTC that we invested -( I think to date they have returned about 25% of BTC invested)- other wise it would be better to hold BTC and not invest in mining rigs .

[Voodah]

I believe each kncminer cost about 60 BTC ( when btc was about $110)

selling for 25 BTC is loss in btc  ( not a $ loss)---- I hope over the life of the kncminer we will at least get the same amount of BTC that we invested -( I think to date they have returned about 25% of BTC invested)- other wise it would be better to hold BTC and not invest in mining rigs .

Selling them for 25 BTC will not get them to ROI.

I've been thinking a lot about it. I seriously think the only way (and a long shot tbh) to get them to ROI is as soon as they become not cost effective for BTC; we have to put them to mine an alt coin that could eventually appreciate against BTC (as has been happening these last days, presumably this was wave 1  and it will happen again in the future). Then we would finally get our BTC back.

Lately Namecoin appreciated 3-4x so that should help a little in these coming payments.

[ffwong]

I believe each kncminer cost about 60 BTC ( when btc was about $110)

selling for 25 BTC is loss in btc  ( not a $ loss)---- I hope over the life of the kncminer we will at least get the same amount of BTC that we invested -( I think to date they have returned about 25% of BTC invested)- other wise it would be better to hold BTC and not invest in mining rigs .

We are definitely loosing if we sell at 25 BTC. If we look at the BTC/USD exchange rate when we calculate our benefit, why not simply holding BTC (instead of investing on KNC mining machines) in the first place?
I guess this (looking at the BTC/USD exchange rate) violates the shareholders' original intention.

[ffwong]

I believe each kncminer cost about 60 BTC ( when btc was about $110)

selling for 25 BTC is loss in btc  ( not a $ loss)---- I hope over the life of the kncminer we will at least get the same amount of BTC that we invested -( I think to date they have returned about 25% of BTC invested)- other wise it would be better to hold BTC and not invest in mining rigs .

Selling them for 25 BTC will not get them to ROI.

I've been thinking a lot about it. I seriously think the only way (and a long shot tbh) to get them to ROI is as soon as they become not cost effective for BTC; we have to put them to mine an alt coin that could eventually appreciate against BTC (as has been happening these last days, presumably this was wave 1  and it will happen again in the future). Then we would finally get our BTC back.

Lately Namecoin appreciated 3-4x so that should help a little in these coming payments.

I think altcoin is not a solution. Because currently, only scrypt-based alt-coin (like Litecoin) is more profitable than bitcoin. Current ASIC miners cannot mine scrypt-based coins. They only mine SHA256-based coins. If there is any SHA256 altcoin more profitable than BTC, those ASIC miners' owners will immediately swap to mine that altcoin, and making it unprofitable.

[philipma1957]

the original offer from knc was 6999 usd payable with a credit card.  ROI for BTC is meaningless for the oct knc machines we purchased in june. 

the new offer by knc is BTC offer. these are due in april of 2014.  Please do not discuss btc with the machines we purchased as it is a meaningless discussion.  Most of us did use btc to pay Tyrion70 but I simply went to coinbase and purchased 7.5 btc for about 80 usd a coin then used  the btc to buy in.   Since I live in a country that charges taxes in fiat my calculations are based on fiat not BTC.

   If anyone thinks the selling half the machines for 25k each and halving all our dividends  would mean we lose they do not have a real concept of investment.  I do agree that selling half the machines may not be the best choice for max profit.  but it absolutely makes a real world fiat profit.  For each and every one of us.   It make us all guaranteed winners.  Keeping all the machines and hashing does not make us a guaranteed winner.  I happen to be a USA citizen but frankly if I did  live in the UK and used the pound the same would be true.  If I lived in any country that uses the EURO it would be true. If I lived in Japan  or China it would be true.

  The down side to selling half the machines at 25k each  say 14 for 350,000 usd.  and we paid 190,000 usd for all the machines does exist.

 one) coins to jump to 10000 a coin
two) deal goes bad and we do not get paid.

the upside

 one) we get 350,000   we paid 190,000 so  we got 13 machines for free and a 160,000 profit.
two) coins stay stable or drop

[Voodah]

I believe each kncminer cost about 60 BTC ( when btc was about $110)

selling for 25 BTC is loss in btc  ( not a $ loss)---- I hope over the life of the kncminer we will at least get the same amount of BTC that we invested -( I think to date they have returned about 25% of BTC invested)- other wise it would be better to hold BTC and not invest in mining rigs .

Selling them for 25 BTC will not get them to ROI.

I've been thinking a lot about it. I seriously think the only way (and a long shot tbh) to get them to ROI is as soon as they become not cost effective for BTC; we have to put them to mine an alt coin that could eventually appreciate against BTC (as has been happening these last days, presumably this was wave 1  and it will happen again in the future). Then we would finally get our BTC back.

Lately Namecoin appreciated 3-4x so that should help a little in these coming payments.

I think altcoin is not a solution. Because currently, only scrypt-based alt-coin (like Litecoin) is more profitable than bitcoin. Current ASIC miners cannot mine scrypt-based coins. They only mine SHA256-based coins. If there is any SHA256 altcoin more profitable than BTC, those ASIC miners' owners will immediately swap to mine that altcoin, and making it unprofitable.

That's true; but you're not fully getting what I'm saying.

Even though they are not more profitable now, they may be in the near future.

Alts were pumped heavily this last week. I did the math. The total volume of the 29 main alts is now 10% of the total volume of BTC. It's as if they are getting them ready for the next BTC step up. So, presumably, in the future we will have another alt pump (be it because of merit or pure hype). During each of these pumps the alts appreciate 2x-4x against BTC. SO hypothetically if we were lucky to switch to the correct alt (during this first pump wave they all went up a lot.. so any of the better ones might do), we might see our original BTC value when we eventually go back alt/BTC at 3 or times the value we mined the alt for... long shot but worth the consideration...

[Voodah]

the original offer from knc was 6999 usd payable with a credit card.  ROI for BTC is meaningless for the oct knc machines we purchased in june.  

the new offer by knc is BTC offer. these are due in april of 2014.  Please do not discuss btc with the machines we purchased as it is a meaningless discussion.  Most of us did use btc to pay Tyrion70 but I simply went to coinbase and purchased 7.5 btc for about 80 usd a coin then used  the btc to buy in.   Since I live in a country that charges taxes in fiat my calculations are based on fiat not BTC.

   If anyone thinks the selling half the machines for 25k each and halving all our dividends  would mean we lose they do not have a real concept of investment.  I do agree that selling half the machines may not be the best choice for max profit.  but it absolutely makes a real world fiat profit.  For each and every one of us.   It make us all guaranteed winners.  Keeping all the machines and hashing does not make us a guaranteed winner.  I happen to be a USA citizen but frankly if I did  live in the UK and used the pound the same would be true.  If I lived in any country that uses the EURO it would be true. If I lived in Japan  or China it would be true.

  The down side to selling half the machines at 25k each  say 14 for 350,000 usd.  and we paid 190,000 usd for all the machines does exist.

 one) coins to jump to 10000 a coin
two) deal goes bad and we do not get paid.

the upside

 one) we get 350,000   we paid 190,000 so  we got 13 machines for free and a 160,000 profit.
two) coins stay stable or drop

Whatever your own personal justification or situation may be, this groupbuy was paid for in BTC. No discussion there. Calculating ROI in terms of USD is what's meaningless and shows no real concept of investment. You're trying to justify the investment in your head.

Fact is fact: If you kept those 7.5 BTC you bought at Coinbase, you'd have more today, either USD or BTC wise.

Who are you trying to kid?

[btceic]

the original offer from knc was 6999 usd payable with a credit card.  ROI for BTC is meaningless for the oct knc machines we purchased in june. 

the new offer by knc is BTC offer. these are due in april of 2014.  Please do not discuss btc with the machines we purchased as it is a meaningless discussion.  Most of us did use btc to pay Tyrion70 but I simply went to coinbase and purchased 7.5 btc for about 80 usd a coin then used  the btc to buy in.   Since I live in a country that charges taxes in fiat my calculations are based on fiat not BTC.

   If anyone thinks the selling half the machines for 25k each and halving all our dividends  would mean we lose they do not have a real concept of investment.  I do agree that selling half the machines may not be the best choice for max profit.  but it absolutely makes a real world fiat profit.  For each and every one of us.   It make us all guaranteed winners.  Keeping all the machines and hashing does not make us a guaranteed winner.  I happen to be a USA citizen but frankly if I did  live in the UK and used the pound the same would be true.  If I lived in any country that uses the EURO it would be true. If I lived in Japan  or China it would be true.

  The down side to selling half the machines at 25k each  say 14 for 350,000 usd.  and we paid 190,000 usd for all the machines does exist.

 one) coins to jump to 10000 a coin
two) deal goes bad and we do not get paid.

the upside

 one) we get 350,000   we paid 190,000 so  we got 13 machines for free and a 160,000 profit.
two) coins stay stable or drop

Phil,
While I agree with your assumptions, if we sold 13 for 350,000 we would be able to buy about ~340 btc, which would mean that my payout would be about 3.4 btc, @ ~1000 per btc that would almost double my initial investment in fiat but not in bitcoin. The other poster is correct in that had I kept my original 18.95 BTC for this group buy I would be up much more than I am now and it may take the full two years of hashing to ROI on my original investment in BTC, in fiat however I am up as most of us are in a big way, but only if btc remains at current levels or higher.

It's a tough question and we need to remove our emotions from the equation and look at this from a business transaction point of view only.

I think we need to run some numbers on the possibilities going forward.

1) is now the best time to sell the proposed 13 miners, can we get more now for them rather than later, or will we produce more dividends but over a longer period of time? my last dividend was .96 btc, for me selling 13 of the miners for a 3.4btc dividend doesn't sound worth it to me as I expect to receive that much in dividends alone from hashing over the next 5-7 dividend period.

2) what are the probabilities of the price of btc going down over the remaining time that we have with the group buy.

3) what are the projected earnings in dividends over the next year?

I say we keep them going until we hit the sweet spot between selling them and earning dividends.

[tyrion70]

Hey Guys,

Due to forum being unavailable I haven't posted the update on the divs yet but we sent them Sunday evening.

Balance in wallet: 102.48499399
Still in wallet for non-converted shares: 5.75459633
Hosting Cost: 1.8
Dividends: 94.93039766
Divs per share: 0.00028354

Still 5883 shares left to confirm / transfer

With regards to selling miners we have no intention to sell miners for now. This has multiple reasons:
- We still believe a ROI might be possible on the miners. Compared to the original buyin this weeks dividend was still a decent 4-5.6% (depending on what GB). With BTC Price going up costs for mining are decreasing making that we can continue mining longer than we anticipated at the start.
- Selling and shipping these miners comes as a risk. They still need to work when they arrive god knows where otherwise you don't get the money.
- Downscaling the number of miners increases the risk on the miners, ie the effect of one or part of a miner breaking down is higher with less miners.

This might change if prospects change in the near future of course.

Bottom line, what Voodah indicated, we would have all been better off not buying the machines as it stands, however selling the miners is making that "loss" irreversible.

Cheers,

[maqifrnswa]

Part of the reason why we bought this GB is because the shares are exchangeable. You can "sell" these miners at any time by selling your shares, or you can "buy" whole miners by buying the shares. There doesn't even need to be a debate, tyrion and blastbob gave us a great mechanism for voting with your wallet.

it looks like you can buy/sell for ~0.0013/share. If you think we should sell miners, sell your shares. If you think it's a good deal, buy.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=328135.msg3713349#new

[utens]

Also from the next reports is even possible to write separatly how many Namecoin/other altcoin where mined and converted into bitcoin?

Just to know how big is the boost from the alts


(also imo with the next hoards, in maybe few weeks/1 month think that altcoins will have another boost)

[philipma1957]

Part of the reason why we bought this GB is because the shares are exchangeable. You can "sell" these miners at any time by selling your shares, or you can "buy" whole miners by buying the shares. There doesn't even need to be a debate, tyrion and blastbob gave us a great mechanism for voting with your wallet.

it looks like you can buy/sell for ~0.0013/share. If you think we should sell miners, sell your shares. If you think it's a good deal, buy.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=328135.msg3713349#new

Okay good point.  So I have 1250 shares if I ask .0014 for them   that is 1.75 btc  while this would seem terrible in terms of my 7.5 btc paid in back in july in terms of cash it is a nice profit.

Each machine we own is about 12400 shares…  so at .0014 a machine is about 17.36 btc   at .0012  a machine is about 14.88 btc.     so the correct price is between .0012 and .0015 a share.

So I will offer my 1250 shares on that link.  I need to read transfer procedure. 

So far I have sold 100 of my 1250 shares.  Thank you for the thread link.

[PeZ]

KnC sold $1 Million per hour for the first five hours the Neptune went on sale. Crazy.

[maqifrnswa]

KnC sold $1 Million per hour for the first five hours the Neptune went on sale. Crazy.

That's > 1000 TH/s. The current network is 6000 TH/s. Nice chunk of hash.

[blastbob]

KnC sold $1 Million per hour for the first five hours the Neptune went on sale. Crazy.

That's > 1000 TH/s. The current network is 6000 TH/s. Nice chunk of hash.

And its mostly KnC that gains from it..

[philipma1957]

Part of the reason why we bought this GB is because the shares are exchangeable. You can "sell" these miners at any time by selling your shares, or you can "buy" whole miners by buying the shares. There doesn't even need to be a debate, tyrion and blastbob gave us a great mechanism for voting with your wallet.

it looks like you can buy/sell for ~0.0013/share. If you think we should sell miners, sell your shares. If you think it's a good deal, buy.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=328135.msg3713349#new

Okay good point.  So I have 1250 shares if I ask .0014 for them   that is 1.75 btc  while this would seem terrible in terms of my 7.5 btc paid in back in july in terms of cash it is a nice profit.

Each machine we own is about 12400 shares…  so at .0014 a machine is about 17.36 btc   at .0012  a machine is about 14.88 btc.     so the correct price is between .0012 and .0015 a share.

So I will offer my 1250 shares on that link.  I need to read transfer procedure.  

So far I have sold 100 of my 1250 shares.  Thank you for the thread link.

I have now sold 300 of my 1250 shares So thanks for the thread link a second time.  Now I am a fiat roi guy not a btc roi guy.

So I got .395 btc for 300 shares  then I cashed the .395 btc. at coinbase.  

 .395 btc is  about 426 usd .  I have now fully sold my shares so thanks again.  for pointing out the transfer thread.   This allowed me to middle my profits nicely. tyrion70 I will pm the info on the transfer of the 950 shares.

[philipma1957]

It has been a pleasure working with this group buy.

my fiat roi is 771 usd in  and 2562.65 usd out.  


 I am still hoping to regain my missing .39 btc from the bips me hack.  I was contacted by them today and they said my btc was transferred after the theft and they may be able to recover it for me.  More then 1000 btc was stolen from them.  At the time of theft BTC was about 500 usd.  so around 500,000 usd.  It has  since risen 2x to more then 1,000,000 usd.


Still  anytime I can start with 771 and end up with 2562 is good for me. or maybe I get that .39 when btc is at 2k and I go to 3300 gross.



Tyrion and bob have been very good running this buy.  I did not want to sell all my holdings but this buy is more liquid then dZcoop is.

 I wanted to sell half of all 3 buys.  thus allowing me a middling affect on profit.  

I had 250gh in hash I now have 206gh in hash so my exposure to a large drop in BTC price has been reduced. I still have a chance to score big if btc rises with my other  buys on dZcoop.

  Thanks again this buy has been a pleasure and in my eyes a good success.

  Best to all and happy mining!!  Philipma1957