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Author Topic: ☃☃☃ New Crypto Idea! ☃☃☃  (Read 205 times)
ShortCoins (OP)
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December 14, 2017, 03:24:56 PM
 #1

One thing I personally don't like about Crypto is how wasteful it is when it comes to resources like electricity and man hours.

Mining costs play a large roll in the end value of Crypto. The more resources destroyed in mining, the more digital currency that is created


I think this is very backward. Instead of destroying resources to make a new currency we should be protecting resources and awarding those who help to save the planet. What if there was a Crypto that wasn't backed by asset destruction?

We could essentially incentivize people to do good things by awarding them crypto. Instead of going to a "job" you can decide how to spend your time. Anything that could be considered not environmentally friendly could be a debit. And everything that is beneficial to the planet/saving the world could be a credit. People could have freedom to live their life more to the fullest and technology could gradually replace most "jobs".



Basically what I am trying to say:

What if there was a way to create crypto based on saving resources rather than based on destroying resources
RoseLavender
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December 14, 2017, 03:27:46 PM
 #2

I love the idea of this concept, but I think the reality of it would very difficult. Such an altcoin would still need to be programmed and rewarded some how, this means that the mining aspect of it is sort of required for a cryptocurrency.
ShortCoins (OP)
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December 14, 2017, 03:32:19 PM
 #3

Yeah it would definitely be difficult.

I can barely wrap my head around it enough to even explain what I am thinking about Tongue


Basically:

1. bitcoin requires asset destruction for mining
2. it would be great if there was some way to make bitcoin based around asset preservation instead
pginvest
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December 14, 2017, 03:35:51 PM
 #4

In order to create a better future - first you have to imagine it. It seems like you have a good imagination but you might want to help out the rest of us and describe how this might work.

Am I spamming? Report me!
CHENG90
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December 14, 2017, 03:35:57 PM
 #5

How would the currency be created, if the reward for people performing planet saving activities, then what creates the coin? (the two things to me seem completely unrelated)

It sounds nice as an idea but can't see (in a realistic sense) how its possible.

The loss of resource for mining is balanced by the rewarded Crypto to the miner, this balance allows it to be continuous, when someone does something that helps the environment, that helps everyone on the planet but who is going to reward the person that did it?

I don't mean to come across as negative towards your idea Smiley
YuginKadoya
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December 14, 2017, 03:41:59 PM
 #6

Well as a citizen of earth I think we can do our part by planting trees and lessen the use of fossil fuels, naturally right now we are engaging in a global warming problem and the only thing we can help is making an effort in lessening the use of electricity, that is why earth hour was establish all over the world in taking out all lights in different parts of the world well regarding in bitcoin mining, Miners now need a great amount of electricity I think providing an eco friendly miners should be useful,
ShortCoins (OP)
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December 14, 2017, 03:56:24 PM
 #7

Quote
I don't mean to come across as negative towards your idea

Don't worry I didn't take it that way. Your questions are very good and friendly.

I'm not sure how the coins could be created or if it could fit into the block chain. I think you could use AI or something similar to the block chain, where it is decentralized and people are incentivized to 'mine for the currency'.  I'm trying to think of how to make this currency, which would somehow encourage world preservation, rather than world destruction.

Step 1. Decide if we have enough resources for everyone in the world
Step 2. Figure out how to allocate those resources
Step 3. Use money as a means to share the resources, rather than destroy them


I'm worried the answer to Step 1 is we don't have enough resources for everyone. And instead of using money to share resources we will continue to use it to destroy the world. Without resources why do we need money? We shouldn't destroy resources to create something we actually want to use to allocate the resources. Especially if we are destroying resources when we already don't even have enough for everyone in the world
nullius
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December 14, 2017, 04:02:43 PM
 #8

Folks, please read this before you buy into this junk, or even bother arguing about it.  ShortCoins is a spammer on a prolific FUD binge.

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December 14, 2017, 04:06:07 PM
 #9

One thing I personally don't like about Crypto is how wasteful it is when it comes to resources like electricity and man hours.

Mining costs play a large roll in the end value of Crypto. The more resources destroyed in mining, the more digital currency that is created


I think this is very backward. Instead of destroying resources to make a new currency we should be protecting resources and awarding those who help to save the planet. What if there was a Crypto that wasn't backed by asset destruction?

We could essentially incentivize people to do good things by awarding them crypto. Instead of going to a "job" you can decide how to spend your time. Anything that could be considered not environmentally friendly could be a debit. And everything that is beneficial to the planet/saving the world could be a credit. People could have freedom to live their life more to the fullest and technology could gradually replace most "jobs".



Basically what I am trying to say:

What if there was a way to create crypto based on saving resources rather than based on destroying resources

That isn't backward thats how this world has always worked. Ever heard that energy can neither be created nor be destroyed. So benefits or say energy in form of electricity has to be wasted to create a new energy called this digital currency. Ever thought how much paper and cotton does fiat currency wastes? or how much electricity or man hours do banks take to work? You can't create something out of anything except its magic.
ShortCoins (OP)
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December 14, 2017, 04:09:25 PM
 #10

Nullius - this is actually a stimulating discussion on asset destruction vs asset preservation.

If you ever have issues with spam, FUD, etc please contact a moderator rather than taking it upon yourself to police the forum. I have asked repeatedly for you to stop stalking and harassing me.

So please, move along and let us talk about improving crypto and the world
teilwalL05
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December 14, 2017, 04:18:08 PM
 #11

I really think we need to do our part in preventing the destruction of our earth and global warming is a real problem and threatening to destroy it, and I think BTC-Green is a promising ICO that have a hearth in opening up to the environment and it is a modern digital payment system that serve for the large group of community that is implementing environmental projects, I think they establish a new cryptocurrency Idea.
ShortCoins (OP)
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December 14, 2017, 04:19:22 PM
 #12

Lets fast forward to the year 2100;

Lets Just Guess:
Bitcoin is the world currency
Prices are still through the roof
We have mined 20m/21m of the coins


What will we have accomplished in 91 years? Well you can bet those mining costs in 2100 to create the last 1m BTC will be insane. We will have destroyed so many resources by then that we will barely need a currency. If mining destroys enough assets and actual resources, it could get to the point where we literally can't stop it. Because people will be rushing to acquire the last of the currency and resources. I think the idea that bitcoin is finite is both attracting and alarming. A finite amount of currency reflects the sad truth about a finite amount of resources. I fear this currency will be used to further divide the wealth classes rather than bring us together. I wish we could learn to share. And realize the future is all that matters



Quote
I really think we need to do our part in preventing the destruction of our earth and global warming is a real problem and threatening to destroy it, and I think BTC-Green is a promising ICO that have a hearth in opening up to the environment

Thanks for sharing about BTC-Green, I will check it out. I'm actually interested a lot in the ICO side of crypto and want to look into that more too!
nullius
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December 14, 2017, 04:34:29 PM
 #13

Nullius - this is actually a stimulating discussion on asset destruction vs asset preservation.

If you ever have issues with spam, FUD, etc please contact a moderator rather than taking it upon yourself to police the forum. I have asked repeatedly for you to stop stalking and harassing me.

So please, move along and let us talk about improving crypto and the world

ShortCoins, knock off the faux reasonable act.  Stop trying to play the victim here.  You have been rapid-fire creating new topics all week, all converging on the same general idea; and here, you posted a partly duplicative thread only ten minutes before this one.

(There:  Alleging that “The value of crypto comes from the fact that electricity, man hours, and hardware are destroyed in order to create. We are essentially destroying resources...”  Here:  Speaking of how “crypto” is “wasteful” and “destroying resources”.  Your other near-simultaneous thread was also a copypaste of one of your other posts from yet another thread; and if you truly sought “stimulating discussion” as you claim, you would have replied to the the quite reasonable question I asked you.  [Edit:  The copypasted post plausibly appears to have been a mistake; I’ll take that up in the other thread...])

It’s also only a forked tongue hanging out of your head when you say, “let us talk about improving crypto and the world”.  You’ve been doing nothing but preaching the evils of “crypto” since Saturday night.  Twelve hours before this thread, you asked, “☠☠☠ Is Crypto A Rip-O? ☠☠☠”  How stupid do you think people here must be?

As for your allegations of “stalking and harassing”, you already threatened that you will “take action”.  So, have at it.  Or maybe look up what those words mean.


(I will leave aside that you’re here pretending to make some revelatory observation, whereas you give a shallow retread a topic which has been discussed repeatedly, everywhere, for about the past nine years.  Beating a dead horse would be something I simply ignore.)

ShortCoins (OP)
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December 14, 2017, 04:41:31 PM
 #14

Ok Nullius, you are right. Have fun
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December 14, 2017, 04:48:10 PM
 #15

Crypto uses electricity. It's one of the most ecologically safe sources of energy. I see no problem here. Making money out of electricity is better than making money out of oil that has a limit and can harm the ecology.
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December 14, 2017, 05:04:17 PM
 #16

Ok Nullius, you are right. Have fun

And you are a victim-card playing spammer. If the forum wasn't filled with people who post replies to any post just to add to their count (without reading about the crap you've been repeatedly spewing), you would have desisted from this.

You are clever enough to realize that this works for you because most people won't bother about calling you out for your irrational behaviour.
If nothing else, stop with those stupid emoji highlights dude.

About your stimulating discussion. What on earth do you mean by "ïf it somehow  worked by asset preservation??"

What part of Proof-of-Work/ Proof-of-Stake algorithms don't you understand? Just asking pie-in-the-sky questions doesn't make for a discussion. This is the kind of self-righteous, hippie behavior that makes otherwise reasonable people question the motives of all those green warriors.
You cannot not use energy for everything. Lets hear an alternative from you to enable ässet preservation" or whatever fancy title you want to come up with next..If you cannot then just STOP creating topics..Your thoughts are not so unique and revolutionary that you want to keep creating new topics every hour...LOL..
Just google your "ideas" and you'll have plenty to read!
amishmanish
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December 14, 2017, 05:17:43 PM
 #17

By the way, just in case you think that by creating topics and perpetually answering yourself will get you to 1000 posts and legendary level within a month, then you should know that this ain't how it works...

 Cool Cool Cool activity = min(time * 14, posts) Cool Cool Cool

Also read this:
 Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1689727.0  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Meanwhile, I'll waiting for you to play the victim card again and say that you are genuinely interested and you have been contributing in the discussion with your "valid and serious" questions on the future of bitcoin which people here haven't yet thought of..Coz they had been waiting for Shortcoin Jesus till now..!!

That'll explain why have you taken it upon yourself and your newbie account to single-handedly occupy the forum with your never-ending drivel!! AND your Emoji-decorations.

 Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Christmas is still a few days away man. Don't get so festive already!!  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
nullius
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December 14, 2017, 05:18:30 PM
 #18

On another note, since you express desire for “stimulating discussion”, I wish to address this on a technical level.  Speaking here only as to Bitcoin, since “crypto” is such a fuzzy buzzword nowadays:

Mining costs play a large roll in the end value of Crypto. The more resources destroyed in mining, the more digital currency that is created

It is a common and pernicious myth that mining gives Bitcoin its value.  It doesn’t—at least, not directly.  Mining does contribute to the security of Bitcoin, which in turn enables Bitcoin to become valuable.  But it is only one subsystem in an intricate machine, and not in any way Bitcoin’s font of value.

A quick explanation of what mining actually does:

As you perhaps understand (and please say if you do not), Bitcoin is a global, distributed ledger.  A decentralized ledger, which must be kept absolutely synchronized between untrusted and mutually untrusting nodes.  This raises something which crypto eggheads call the “double-spend problem”:  How can a thief be stopped from cheating the system by sending the same money to two different people at once, by creating two different entries in two disagreeing versions of the ledger?

Preventing double-spends requires everybody in the entire world to agree on the ordering of transactions:  If the thief sent the same money to Alice, then a microsecond later to Bob, then somehow Alice and Bob must both know that Alice got the money first, and the second transaction was therefore invalid.

This is where the theoreticians start talking about Byzantine Generals and Byzantine Fault Tolerance.  I would not usually drop a Wikipedia link; but this should give a reasonable overview at a level comprehensible to any intelligent person:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_fault_tolerance

In Bitcoin, “miners” provide Byzantine Fault Tolerance to the network’s enforcement of the ordering of the transactions.  That is what miners do.  That is all miners do.  It is a very valuable task—a “large roll [sic]”, as you put it; that is why miners get paid for performing it.  But nevertheless, it is only one component of Bitcoin.

For an excellent overview of all the moving parts in the Bitcoin machine, their various histories, and how Satoshi fit them all together, I suggest this article:

Narayanan, A; Clark, J.  “Bitcoin's Academic Pedigree”.  ACM Queue, vol. 15 issue 4 (2017-08-29)

Now, as you can see:

0. Miners do not create the value of Bitcoin.

1. To make a cryptocurrency which does not require resource use similar to Bitcoin’s proof-of-work mining, you must find some other way to provide Byzantine Fault Tolerance.  Well—either that, or discard the decentralized property of the network, and put the network under the substantial control of a central trusted party.  Digicash in the 1990s was a cryptography-based currency which did not need any “mining” scheme, because it relied on a bank to issue notes and prevent double-spends.  But reliance on central trusted parties is anathema to Bitcoin.  Observe too, Digicash failed because no bank wanted to be its central trusted party!

Very smart people spent about two decades trying to overcome the double-spend problem.  Satoshi Nakamoto was the first person ever to proffer a solution which did not rely on a trusted party.  Other schemes (such as proof-of-stake) have been proposed; but none has the security properties of Bitcoin’s proof-of-work.  Perhaps some rare genius may someday outdo Satoshi, and invent a new way to provide Byzantine Fault Tolerance; but thus far, nobody has.  I know I’ve tried.  I have spent endless hours and months and years pondering this precise issue.

Contra what you say, this is not a “New Crypto Idea!”  Not new at all.  But it is really not an easy problem.  It is not a matter of waving your hands and saying, “What if there was a way to create crypto based on saving resources rather than based on destroying resources”.  What if there was a way?  Well, how?

RoseLavender
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December 14, 2017, 05:22:15 PM
 #19

Crypto uses electricity. It's one of the most ecologically safe sources of energy. I see no problem here. Making money out of electricity is better than making money out of oil that has a limit and can harm the ecology.

Still a currency aimed at preserving earth in a meaningful way could offer more than being a safer method of making money than oil. For example, if trees would be planted if certain goals are met or something in that direction. It could still be set up like current altcoins, but paired with the goal helping out the environment.
ahmad21
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December 14, 2017, 05:23:27 PM
 #20

By the way, just in case you think that by creating topics and perpetually answering yourself will get you to 1000 posts and legendary level within a month, then you should know that this ain't how it works...

 Cool Cool Cool activity = min(time * 14, posts) Cool Cool Cool

Also read this:
 Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1689727.0  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Meanwhile, I'll waiting for you to play the victim card again and say that you are genuinely interested and you have been contributing in the discussion with your "valid and serious" questions on the future of bitcoin which people here haven't yet thought of..Coz they had been waiting for Shortcoin Jesus till now..!!

That'll explain why have you taken it upon yourself and your newbie account to single-handedly occupy the forum with your never-ending drivel!! AND your Emoji-decorations.

 Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Christmas is still a few days away man. Don't get so festive already!!  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

I think they are alts just making posts and talking to each other increasing their posts counts. They have done around 200 posts in last 2-3 weeks and guess what they make most of the conversations with each other. When have you really seen a person quarreling upon an issue that another member instead of replying him on the thread created another thread.
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